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Think tank: new mod idea "Devious & Naughty jurisdiction in Skyrim"

worik

Entry posted by worik ·

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TLDR: Skyrim has crime, bounties, prisons (especially with mods) but it lacks a proper court or tribunal, where the player has to answer the charges. We need to change that.

 

Mods in mind: primarily Prison Overhaul Patched, Sexlab Adventures, and others... and the DD series for practical reasons :classic_angel:

Modders: Feel free to use this train of thought in your mods

Limitations: I ask everybody to use this only in mods, that will be hosted here on LL and free to play. I refuse to take part or support any pay-to-play mods!

 

Justice in Skyrim today follows a simple story

  • optional: players does something illegal
  • a bounty is put on the player's head
  • the player gets arrested
  • the player waits for the end of the prison term (or enjoys the benefits of various prison mods)
  • done

 

What's missing is independant justice, a court, a judge, sleazy advocates, (corrupted) witnesses a proper sentence or the proof of innocence

 

The better story

  • A bounty needs a preceding charge - someone needs to name the wrong-doing
  • after the arrest, you may be put into jail - temporary
  • so we need a court session
  • you are told your charges - this may be an immediate opportunity to talk to the judge and "convince" him that all is fake
  • you may prepare your defense: convince an advocate to defend you, find/corrupt witnesses to speak up for you
  • if DD/ZAP mods give that - you may be "interrogated" or tormented to make you confess
  • depending on the setting we may need to release the prisoner temorary to do find the witnesses, or we need to move everybody into the cell for the "talks"
  • "witness search" gives ample opportunity for it's own quests
  • the court session itself
  • it would be ranging from "honorable" to "humiliating"
  • in court you could be interrogated (dialogue) and argue for your innocence ... (offer sex)
  • the judge will finally sentence you, depending on all the actions before and your collected scores
  • you may appeal
  • you are free and the bounty is erased, or
  • the mod hands you over to another penalizing mod (POP, SimpleSlavery, vanilla prison, ..)
  • done

 

Intended Features

  • if possible a tracking of real player actions in game so we can come up with a list of charges against the player (e.g. "you hurt that city guard while you were shouting in a city")
  • a generator for fake charges (configurable) and associated bounties
  • a "credit" system or "merit" .. so each player action will gather points to influence the verdict of the judge.
  • We would need two counters, like "guiltiness" and "severity"
  • configurable judge - corrupt/merciful/severe - and depending on the players preferences male/female/unique NPC/random
  • configurable witnesses - corrupt/honest/mistaken - and depending on the players preferences male/female/unique NPC/random
  • configurable sleazy advocates - always corrupt, always demanding payment or they won't help you, NPC must be ugly and smelly.. for the flavor of it
  • to appeal the sentence: trial by combat -> NOW we need an arena!
  • to appeal the sentence: trial by sex -> arena?
  • configurable sentences -> the range of possible outcomes of the court session , which mods to hand over
  • configurable court session -> "honorable"=clothed to "humiliating"=naked+bound+... and all between
  • configurable difficulty -> almost guaranteed innocence to almost guaranteed guiltiness
  • the handover mods should be able to cope with the severity of the sentence
  • your race or membership in factions may bias your "guiltiness" counter
  • ...
  • ... ?

 

 

Examples:

  • confessing your guiltiness in the torment phase will raise the chance of a "is guity" sentence to 100% but lowers the severity of the verdict
  • shooing away your advocate raises "guilty" and "severe", pleasing does the opposite
  • We could use each Jarl and their palace as the judge and the court. The stewards will be the prosecutors
  • We could use the generals in the palaces ... either as judge or as prosecutors
  • we could use the Jarls's bodyguards as tormentors or witnesses
  • we could also use a special dungeon for the court... maybe an idea that helps @Inte to extend that mysterious underground dwelling :classic_wink:
  • Success to corrupt a witness would be a gamble with low risk but great gain but it would require speech skill (the usual convincing stuff) or sex skill (SL stats)
  • you're a Breton in windhelm or a Khajiit anywhere in Skyrim -> tough luck ... you are always more guilty than a Nord.
  • .... more to come later

 

A mockup scenery

  • Judge: Balgruuf
  • Advocate: Nazeem
  • Prosecutor: Farengar
  • Tormentor: Irileth
  • Denouncer: Ysolda
  • Witness: Olfrid
  • Accused: you

 

 

Technical stuff

  • I think the whole court thing is best done in a framing quest, so each court session will always go through the same sequence of stages
  • Depending on the side conditions some stages may be shortend or skipped
  • something like
  • 100 - the player is charged
  • 200 - the player is arrested
  • 300 - the player is preparing the defense or is interrogated
  • 400 - the court session
  • 500 - interrogation in court or in a special dungeon
  • 700 - the verdict
  • 800 - the appeal
  • 900 - end quest & handover

 

 

Long-term features - they may change the whole plot

  • the player is not the accused one, but the witness or the denouncer
  • the player is not the accused one, but the judge
  • the player is not the accused one, but the sleazy advocate .. (corrupting witnesses.. !)
  • the player is not the accused one, but the bounty hunter/tormentor

 

 

Dependencies or handovers

  • Prison Overhaul Patched by @Inte -> both directions - arrests would end in prison (now, we need a charge), handover to a court session which would lead back to a prison sentence
  • Sexlab Adventures by @Teutonic -> the crime system may lead to a court session, at best it names the charge against the player
  • Simple Slavery by @jfraser -> a handover afetr the verdict into slavery
  • Raven Beak Prison by @Airianna -> the court session may put the player into prison
  • ... ?
  • ... other mods with a crime system
  • .. other mods with a prison system / penal system
  • DD/ZAP series... torment is such a convenient way to get confessions where other proof is missing
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9 Comments

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Airianna

"I wasn't there, so I don't know what you are going on about. However, I am not into hurting people, but I do like sex..."

 

Raven Beak Remastered has a trigger-able starting quest where the Guard sends you there with a 3,000 Violent Crime Gold value or higher, or into the slavery side that is seriously lacking content right now, triggered through Simple Slavery. Both could be triggered externally. So, if your Violent Crime Gold value is less than 3,000, Prison Overhaul Patched should still fire as normal.

Murder 3 people leaving at least 1 witness alive, to get sent in with the current system... Your proposed mod would require a small patch on the Guard Dialog's script to prevent it from kicking in.

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worik

Sounds easy on that end :classic_smile:

Other idea could be

  • RBP does the arrest thing
  • checks if "jurisdiction is present" / sends modevent + listens for response modevent
  • RBP goes into a "pause" mode
  • makes a loop out to "create" the proper verdict or wait hat happens
  • we COULD make the starting values biased to the extreme , so that "freedom" is out of reach
  • or we COULD offer the calling mod a register like "Sentence them guilty, send them back to me"
  • and let justice do the rest :classic_biggrin:

Speaking of it: That register would be a nice thing?

  • here you have the player, I don't care what happens, accused of <void>   <- calls the fake accuse routine
  • here you have the player, I don't care what happens, accused of XYZ
  • here you have the player, send player back to me
  • here you have the player, send player back to me, make player guilty
  • here you have the player, send player back to me, bias guiltiness wtih ###
  • ....

Something like that to give the calling mod a method to govern the outcome, if needed?

 

No one mentioned "fair jurisdiction" :classic_biggrin:

 

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Airianna

Medieval times, that Skyrim is based off of, Fair is... "Do the people like you?" No? You are so dead....

 

I could see bandits and marauders, or Vampires getting on the witness stand to testify against you, when you are thane of the questioned hold. Fake evidence, of course... LOL

 

It could be quite interesting on how things play out. Lucky to have a couple witnesses who are from the hold that are on your side.

- rank -1 or less... (They could shout in the courtroom, and try to attack '-3'... LOL)

- rank 0... erm....

- rank 1 ( Ok, so you helped them in a time of need, doesn't mean they are willing to repay the flavor)

- relationship rank 2 (best chance to convince)

- Rank 3 (Allies can be bought and sold)

- rank 4 (would start to question loyalties, as rank 4 = lover)

 

It would open the door for someone who starts their game as a bandit of Forsworn... Endless possibilities, but lets just focus on the jurisdictions... LOL

 

----------------

 

Edit add

Just thinking, I haven't opened the CK in a while. But, what could happen, is, if your mod is in the game, Raven Beak could send them back to your mod, for a "release hearing", if they are found guilty, then have them sent elsewhere, perhaps a chance at being tossed back into Raven Beak... Also, the guards and inmates of Raven Beak can be character witnesses, so to speak... If your bully score is high, the prisoners can complain about you, and the guards can tell a story about how you beat down the other inmates and wound up slowing down the mining project.... With a low bully score, the prisoners can say that you seem to be there just to whore around, while the guards can say your lazy and lucky to get the minimum quota in per day. So kind of like a hand off on how useful the player is... LOL I would have to set up a global value for daily value to make that come into play tho. If the global values exist, you should be able to pull their values for use. Using an if has prison.esp, then you can catch the global variables, if not, then it can be a random value.

 

Thing is, I am trying to keep from creating dependencies on mods. And I am not that great at it. Just enough to get myself into trouble. But the landscaping, that I can do, just time consuming.

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worik
3 hours ago, Airianna said:

Thing is, I am trying to keep from creating dependencies on mods.

Yes,I agree. Hard dependencies are always a bad thing.

 

In my mind, the "send-modevent" method is the best one so far. So you do not lookfor certain strings somewhere. You just shout the event into the void and maybe listen for a response.

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Airianna

I would do a solid check for... x file, if it doesn't exist, don't shout, because waiting for a reply can cause the papyrus to lag. All be it a little, depending if you have the listener on a timer or not. Also if you have several shouting, it can cause Papyrus to freeze up entirely, and break your scripts.

 

Timer issue with waiting for a reply from a shout out... Simply put, if the game is lagging, the timer can run out before the reply is sent. Canceling out the function it was meant to use.

 

Simple Slavery uses the quest start for Ravenbeak's slavery side, if Ravenbeak is installed in the game. Very simple and solid setup for combining them.

- Basically if has mod, then allow to activate quest.

In your case, I would suggest the start for prison side, once the trials are over, and the prisoner is guilty.

 

I made my mod compatible with Bathing in Skyrim, no patch required, and the mod it's self is not a requirement.

Needs mods, also compatible without having to have the mods. I placed several empty bottles in the mess hall, and a couple places to cook. For use of getting water from the showers, that I made sure was deep enough, that someone can use the hotkey to get water, if they are using the mod.

 

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worik
47 minutes ago, Airianna said:

Timer issue with waiting for a reply from a shout out... Simply put, if the game is lagging, the timer can run out before the reply is sent. Canceling out the function it was meant to use.

Didn't know that and had never thought along that way. Yes, that's a bad thing.  Indeed.

 

So I think a proper handover from mod to mod is the key on the technical side here?

And it should probably be the same method for all .. if possible.

 

Note to myself: I need to learn muuuuuch more about this!

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Airianna
11 hours ago, worik said:

Didn't know that and had never thought along that way. Yes, that's a bad thing.  Indeed.

 

So I think a proper handover from mod to mod is the key on the technical side here?

And it should probably be the same method for all .. if possible.

 

Note to myself: I need to learn muuuuuch more about this!

Yep, that's the way it works best. There are a few ways to do it.

- can be through an .ini that your mod reads and generates a list for (Example would be something similar to Util one, https://www.loverslab.com/files/file/236-sexlabutil1-2015-03-28/&searchlight=1 ) Where it populates a list through an ini file. That the player can fill in the mod's name and quest to start. (With hopes that the original mod author is willing to list it)

- takes a little more work on your side, but hard code them, like Simple Slavery does, just checks to see what mods are installed, and allows activation....

- Cause I am tired, I suddenly lost the train of thought, it got derailed somewhere south of nowhere, just inside the void.

 

I never learned how to create a working MCM for Ravenbeak.

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SpyVsPie

In the Skyrim criminal justice system, sexually based punishments are considered especially appropriate. In Whiterun, the dedicated guards who enforce these vicious activities are members of an elite squad know as the Special Victimization Unit. BUM BUM.

 

 

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worik
2 hours ago, SpyVsPie said:

In Whiterun, the dedicated guards who enforce these vicious activities are members of an elite squad know as the Special Victimization Unit.

? Intersting idea. I'll keep that in mind :classic_shy:

Probably Inte will jump on this idea with some "special"  dungeons below the usual POP dungeons and give them another "feature" :classic_ph34r:

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