Maybe supermutants could have the same head as their dogs or similar one. Ghoul could have a head similar to a "Wounded dog".

It's just such an idea, maybe it could save some work to use their heads.

Doing something grody with the ghouls isn't the problem. I did that with the corpses in Bruma and it was fine. The interesting question is -- why should all ghouls be of one race? Do they have to be all races or a representative sample? Do they have a backstory that would influence what race they should be based on?

Similar issues with synths and supermutants. In Skyrim all the draugr were in old Nord crypts so it was fine for them all to be wolves. FO4 is different.

1 hour ago, Bad Dog said:

Doing something grody with the ghouls isn't the problem. I did that with the corpses in Bruma and it was fine. The interesting question is -- why should all ghouls be of one race? Do they have to be all races or a representative sample? Do they have a backstory that would influence what race they should be based on?

 

Similar issues with synths and supermutants. In Skyrim all the draugr were in old Nord crypts so it was fine for them all to be wolves. FO4 is different.

They could be the result of an experiment from one of the vaults. The effort to create the perfect race has failed a bit.

Or, one race was much less resistant to radiation than the others (so there was a gradual mutation).

As for the first generation synth, they all look the same made by them on one production line.

...And stage one is done. We have liftoff.

...in a limited kind of way, of course. This first pass has been very rough and dirty. All the races are in, all races have decent heads with decent head textures. A few have face tints that are handed out randomly among the NPCs. The furrifier handles all of that automatically. All races have body textures but I've done no seam work. Keep your clothes on, ya pervs. A very small amount of headgear has been converted--mostly whatever bugged me as I ran through the world.

I'm putting a new kit up at the site, A0.3, so you can see how it looks, and--JESUS FREAKING CHRIST THAT KIT IS HUGE--oh, it has the TGAs in there. Still freaking large tho.

Kit works like the other FO4 animal races. Enable FurryFallout.esp always; FurryNPCs if you want a furry world; and ONE of the FFO-Player files, whichever race you want to be. Or play as human in the furry world.

Next steps more or less in order that I'll likely do them: 

• Cleanup pass on all races. Seams, base skin tints given more thought, face patterns, hands. Deer get a few more antler options. This will likely happen in parallel with other stuff.
• Kids 
• There's at least one important baby to furrify
• Art - posters, comic books, etc.
• Tails
• Hair. I tried to make the heads close enough to the human position that hair would work and it does, sometimes. I might figure out some method where I make a furry variant only when needed, then pick it up if it's there, use the vanilla if not.
• Pawfeet/hoof feet 
• Hands, maybe
• Headgear as I encounter it
• Other world objects such as dummies. 
• Synths & ghouls

Today's rant: How is it that the Bodyslide people can build import/export capability to every freaking game quickly, with essentially no errors--and so can the nifskope people--and the blender folk are still hacking along with nif export/import that's three game versions and about 45 blender versions out of date? I know we're dealing with volunteer labor, but it can't be that hard. (Well, except that blender makes incompatible changes at the drop of a hat, but that can't be the whole story.)

Strongly tempted to load up git and whatever else I need and see what I can do. I don't like the scripts anyway--they fail if everything isn't exactly just so, which to my mind is the wrong way to go.

14 hours ago, Bad Dog said:

JESUS FREAKING CHRIST THAT KIT IS HUGE--oh, it has the TGAs in there. Still freaking large tho.

FaceGen used to be composed of a single "tint" file that was laid over the default race textures. Beth changed it so in FO4 FaceGen actually includes the whole texture set (diffuse + normal + spec) for every single NPC out there ever. This multiplies the size by 3; actually more than that due to not using BC1 compression but rather a better (but slightly larger) one.

You probably know this already but I thought I'd explain it for anyone else that doesn't and was wondering, lol.

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• Tails

These ain't going to be easy at all since you're basically restricted to copying the vanilla long coat meshes and hoping for the best. Nevertheless, looking forward to whatever you may come up with.

Do make sure to check both the Vulpine tails and the Deathclaw ones for reference, though. Those two are the best ones we have available (IMO).

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• Hair. I tried to make the heads close enough to the human position that hair would work and it does, sometimes. I might figure out some method where I make a furry variant only when needed, then pick it up if it's there, use the vanilla if not.

I'm not sure I'd call it "working", but eh, I guess it's something?

BTW, any plans to port any of the Skyrim hairs? I was thinking about doing a quick'n'dirty port myself to have some head-fitting hairs in the meantime, but I'd be less inclined to do it if you're already planning to do so (since yours will probably end up much better than mine).

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• Pawfeet/hoof feet

Reminder that since feet are part of the body in FO4, you'll want to create your custom legs using the Zeroed Sliders CBBE and BodyTalk3 bodies as a base so it's easy(ish) to create proper Bodyslide sets for them.

7 minutes ago, Blaze69 said:

BTW, any plans to port any of the Skyrim hairs?

Certainly the manes, lion and horse. Beyond that, dunno. Depends on how bad the FO4 hair is.

7 minutes ago, Blaze69 said:

Reminder that since feet are part of the body in FO4, you'll want to create your custom legs using the zingo creatid mumbo jargon thing stuff cruddola whatsis to create proper Bodyslide sets for them

Yeah, right. Whatever. That.

Suppose I really ought to figure out bodyslide one of these days.

12 minutes ago, Bad Dog said:

Certainly the manes, lion and horse. Beyond that, dunno. Depends on how bad the FO4 hair is.

I'd say "pretty damn bad", other than one or two hairs that are just "bearable", but that may just be me.

Only "good" thing about FO4 hair is hair physics are a thing in vanilla now, so if you're up for the task you should be able to copy the boneweights and physics data from one of the vanilla physics-enabled hairs (or one of the physics-enabled mod-added ones, like Ponytail Hairstyles', Commonwealth Cuts' or KS Hairdos Addon with Physics) to the areas of yours that could use some movement (the horse side-mane is one such example IMO).

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Yeah, right. Whatever. That.

?

You can thank Beth for that (though to be fair FO3 and FNV did have the feet be part of the body mesh as well, so it's not like it's a big departure from previous Fallout games).

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Suppose I really ought to figure out bodyslide one of these days.

...you probably should, yeah.

8 hours ago, Bad Dog said:

Today's rant: How is it that the Bodyslide people can build import/export capability to every freaking game quickly, with essentially no errors--and so can the nifskope people--and the blender folk are still hacking along with nif export/import that's three game versions and about 45 blender versions out of date?

BodySlide is ousnius's domain but I'm pretty sure NifSkope and Blender nif plugin are by the same guys - niftools team. Might be something with Blender itself that makes importing and exporting nifs not that easy, considering Max has perfectly working plugin (by the same guys I assume).

3 hours ago, Bad Dog said:

Suppose I really ought to figure out bodyslide one of these days.

Chances are that if you just make a hooved/pawed versions of the zeroed sliders bodies (the ones located in Tools/BodySlide/ShapeData/<body mod name here>), one of the resident BS veterans might take care of the rest cough Blaze cough, unless you want to try your hand at it yourself.

Just saw the new fully-furry version of the billboard. Looks fabulous, @LordFlawn, @PenBoozerX. Looking forward to getting it into the game. Magazines also looking good. Is it a thing that all the Coiffe covers are scalies who don't have hair? Need some Grognak covers fixed up.

Here it is loaded up in game:

*Some* of the hair looks pretty good.

5 hours ago, Bad Dog said:

*Some* of the hair looks pretty good.

 

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Yes, some hairstyles fit quite well, others need a little adjustment. Can you enable more hairstyles in the next version, or all available vanilla hairstyles?

Now I only have the following accessible:

Thanks

8 hours ago, Bad Dog said:

Just saw the new fully-furry version of the billboard. Looks fabulous, @LordFlawn, @PenBoozerX. Looking forward to getting it into the game. Magazines also looking good. Is it a thing that all the Coiffe covers are scalies who don't have hair? Need some Grognak covers fixed up.

We collaborated with the billboard. Looks good

I haven't touched the Gornack stuff since Flawn had some ideas for a complete style revamp earlier? Dunno if he is still doing those or not, but I left those comic types untouched so we don't accidentally double edit some stuff if he is.

Gornack should prolly be a buff lion with golden mane methinks

Ideas for silver shroud? He has so many posters around

I think that if by accidentally two identical versions are created, it doesn't matter, but vice versa. There will be room for everyone to choose the version they like best.

My current thought about hair is to mark all the vanilla hair that works well on the furries with a special head part list. If the hair isn't marked good for furries, the furrifier will look for hair of the same name prefixed with "FFO_", which will be a tailored variant. If that doesn't exist, remove the hair altogether.

Not sure what to do with the lion manes. I could put them on every male lion, or do something more targeted. The minuteman guy in Concord came out as a lion and he's got that hat--dunno that a mane would look good under it. 

15 minutes ago, Bad Dog said:

My current thought about hair is to mark all the vanilla hair that works well on the furries with a special head part list. If the hair isn't marked good for furries, the furrifier will look for hair of the same name prefixed with "FFO_", which will be a tailored variant. If that doesn't exist, remove the hair altogether.

Sounds like a plan. As I said I'm not a fan of the vanilla hairs for the player, but this should get the job done for most NPCs and hopefully we'll also get some ported Skyrim ones to make up for it.

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Not sure what to do with the lion manes. I could put them on every male lion, or do something more targeted.

I liked the Skyrim idea where stronghold leaders would have lush manes and the other "non-alpha" male members would have shorter ones/shaved hairstyles as a sign of respect. That being said, we'd have to check which specific NPCs have been turned into lions and figure out whether they'd keep their manes or shave them depending on faction/rank/"profession" and such.

Maybe do the latter for hardcoded vanilla NPCs and either do all-manes or completely random for mod-added NPCs that get assigned to the lion race? Should give the best of both worlds.

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The minuteman guy in Concord came out as a lion and he's got that hat--dunno that a mane would look good under it. 

Preston as a lion? Ehh, that's too regal for him, should be a lowlier (and annoying-er) species instead. ?

As for hairs and headwear... it is possible to set up "hat compatibility" aka "hide the marked areas of the hair when a hair-top-slot-using headwear item is worn". It works with "segments", which are pretty much the same as Skyrim's partitions. I've already done so both for a handful "normal human" hairs and for the manes used by Lupines and it worked out mostly alright.

There's basically two ways to do it:

• Keep the "default" mesh as-is and simply tag the area that needs to be removed with the appropriate segment/partition. This one is relatively straightforward but downside is you cannot change mesh shape, just hide parts of it, so unless headwear fits properly by just hiding bits of the mane, this may not turn out great. I was lucky with the Lupine manes since those did work out fine, but they are probably the exception.
• Create two "variants" of the hair: a normal one, and an "under-helmet" one with the sides compressed and the top flattened/removed so they fit under hats properly, and then use the segments system so the whole "normal" mesh is hidden and only the "under-helmet" one remains while wearing headgear. This should provide the best result when wearing headwear, but may look weird when uncovered because you effectively have two hair meshes merged into one so they may overlap weirdly and/or have visual bugs with shading and stuff. You can check out the nifs for any of Azar's Ponytail Hairstyles or the KS Bad Kid hair included with my sharks for examples of how this works.

I can give you some pointers on how to do it if you're interested.

1 hour ago, poblivion said:

I think that if by accidentally two identical versions are created, it doesn't matter, but vice versa. There will be room for everyone to choose the version they like best.

Yeah, but I only have so much time to work on random side stuff like this.

In my mind, it is better to have one furrified-art for as many props as possible, rather than multiple options for single prop and no-art for the rest. Can't promise I'll be here forever boys, so just trying to be time-efficient here.

3 hours ago, poblivion said:

Yes, some hairstyles fit quite well, others need a little adjustment. Can you enable more hairstyles in the next version, or all available vanilla hairstyles?

Now I only have the following accessible:

Bad Dog didn't add any FF-race-specific hair entries nor did he edit the vanilla human hairs to enable them for the FF races, so that's why the Hairs list is empty for males and only shows those few options for females (those specific female hairs are bugged in vanilla and show up for all humanoid races because Beth forgot to assign them a proper compatible races list so the game just assumes they are compatible with everything).

You could fix this yourself in xEdit by editing the vanilla hairs and changing their compatible races FormList to a new one that includes all the FF races plus the vanilla HumanRace, but you'll probably want to hold off on this and wait for BD to update the mod with hair stuff since most hairs won't really fit right now anyway.

1 hour ago, PenBoozerX said:

Yeah, but I only have so much time to work on random side stuff like this.

In my mind, it is better to have one furrified-art for as many props as possible, rather than multiple options for single prop and no-art for the rest. Can't promise I'll be here forever boys, so just trying to be time-efficient here.

I didn't mean that more versions were needed. Only if by accidentally duplicates are created can they be used as alternative versions.

Sometimes I can't find the right words to express what I mean ?

2 hours ago, Blaze69 said:

Preston as a lion? Ehh, that's too regal for him, should be a lowlier (and annoying-er) species instead

I dunno, seems like pulling a "pride" together around him and protecting it is lion-ish kind of behavior. But I don't think there's a way to make that hat work with a mane, they're just too bulky. I've thought about following the strategy you suggested--an under-hair that sticks out from under helmets and an over-hair that is for when not wearing helmets--when doing the skyrim hairs but never tried it out. As you say, making it so both versions work will is hard and I find hair a PITA anyway.

As for the manes, I just don't think society is coherent enough in FO4 for a consistent scheme of who gets manes to work. I'm inclined to do something like, if it's a raider or scruffy (has dirty skin), then a mane is too much trouble to manage. (Can't spend an hour a day getting the tangles out if you're a raider.) But if you have a fancy outfit then likely you'll keep up a fancy mane as well.

(Complete aside: Really, the way we assigned lions to orcs in Skryim isn't correct. Lions don't have a single alpha male--there's actually a coherent group of males and a group of females and everything's pretty collaborative, including who gets to boink who. The best match to orc behavior is probably horses, where you do have a single boss male with a collection of females, and other males are only tolerated as long as they aren't competition.)

As for the art, you guys are fantastic and I love it. I just found the mother lode of FO4 posters and such and could upload them to the Drive as pngs if that would help.

31 minutes ago, Bad Dog said:

I dunno, seems like pulling a "pride" together around him and protecting it is lion-ish kind of behavior.

Eh, he didn't really run the Minutemen or anything, he was just another grunt

 following the actual leaders. The fact he's the "leader" during the game's events is only due to all of the others being dead or having gone AWOL.

And welp, I guess the idea of the Minutemen is noble and lion-worthy at its core, but Beth being Beth it just turns them into a bunch of rag-wearing Revolutionary War LARPers which are completely useless and somehow hell-bent on "protecting" a bunch of settlers whose collective IQ is like 20 and which spend all day complaining without even bothering taking out the trash or dead bodies or, y'know, throwing some blankets somewhre to make a makeshift bed. Nothing there really says "noble" or "fierce". 

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But I don't think there's a way to make that hat work with a mane, they're just too bulky.

That's why I figued the second method (aka "compress" the hair so it fits under the hat and pretend he shoehorned it in or whatever) would probably be required for it to look at least bearable.

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I've thought about following the strategy you suggested--an under-hair that sticks out from under helmets and an over-hair that is for when not wearing helmets--when doing the skyrim hairs but never tried it out. As you say, making it so both versions work will is hard and I find hair a PITA anyway.

I'll probably give it a shot myself once the base hair is done, then. Will send the files your way if/when it happens if so.

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As for the manes, I just don't think society is coherent enough in FO4 for a consistent scheme of who gets manes to work.

Institute probably does, BoS most definitely does (and it's probably fitting seeing how they're knightly order wannabes), Gunners could if they were a proper merc company with hyerarchy and uniforms as hinted by the lore and not just a bunch of Raiders but wearing green rags instead of white ones.

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I'm inclined to do something like, if it's a raider or scruffy (has dirty skin), then a mane is too much trouble to manage. (Can't spend an hour a day getting the tangles out if you're a raider.) But if you have a fancy outfit then likely you'll keep up a fancy mane as well.

I guess that'd work too.

1 hour ago, poblivion said:

 

I didn't mean that more versions were needed. Only if by accidentally duplicates are created can they be used as alternative versions.

 

Sometimes I can't find the right words to express what I mean ?

Oh I understood, don't worry. What I meant was, if he might already be doing one thing, and I know theres another thing nobody is working on that i could work on, I'd rather work on the stuff I know for sure wont have overlap now that we still have a bunch to edit.

Unless we have urgent need for Gornacks and Flawn doesn't show up to confirm anytime soon then I have no problem shifting priorities. My version just wont be quite as ambitious as revamping the entire comic style, I'll be loyal to vanilla lol (that type of shitty drawn comics were my childhood lol)

36 minutes ago, Bad Dog said:

As for the art, you guys are fantastic and I love it. I just found the mother lode of FO4 posters and such and could upload them to the Drive as pngs if that would help.

Please do! If its a huge folder, zip it first. Going trough the archives to try and find everything that needs editing is slow, if you already have them in convenient package I'll happily take that, makes it easier for me! (and anyone else who might wanna do edits)

24 minutes ago, PenBoozerX said:

Unless we have urgent need for Gornacks and Flawn doesn't show up to confirm anytime soon then I have no problem shifting priorities. My version just wont be quite as ambitious as revamping the entire comic style, I'll be loyal to vanilla lol (that type of shitty drawn comics were my childhood lol)

You could do those if you want, the art style is really only a personal gripe of mine.

Right now I'm working one the nuka cola posters. There are 4 different poses for her and I could only find 3 hi res ones

I couldn't find a hi res version of this one, Only a lower res one that was cleaner

46 minutes ago, LordFlawn said:

 

You could do those if you want, the art style is really only a personal gripe of mine.

 

Right now I'm working one the nuka cola posters. There are 4 different poses for her and I could only find 3 hi res ones

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I couldn't find a hi res version of this one, Only a lower res one that was cleaner

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