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Bad Dog

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I have my update to the Lykaios posted. I'll go through the rest of them over the break. Not a lot to do, but nearly every mod has a few bugs to chase down, in addition to upgrading to the new hoodies and digi mechanisms.

 

Then what? I don't have a next big project planned. I ought to go through Immersive Creatures, on SE especially, and finish that up. I have furrified/skimpified/shlongified Bruma and Reach and I don't know that they were ever properly posted. I suppose I should get that done.

 

There was a suggestion that Fallout 4 needed furrification. I recently upgraded to a new machine with adequate disk space, so I can have more than 2 games loaded at a time. I had a look at it and, woah doggies. Apparently every face morph is its own nif? And what are the gotchas in the skeleton?

 

So right now I'm cleaning up old mods and playing Final Fantasy XV. And also running my minotaur through the Civil War on the Stormcloak side. But I need some new challenge.

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 If you could, maybe the latest bat race updates??

 like some of your notes written in Bad Dog ideas 
(as long as this is in your interests or have free time)

 

I enjoy sharing images of my bats characters to a friend of mine, who now likes bats lol

 

 But I have some doubt or some bug about changing the facial conplexion to the male bats

Spoiler

 

20201126233615_1.jpg.b529013021e83054b32ab0e792501cc3.jpg

20201126233621_1.jpg.c8330455812df1e5963829284de82857.jpg

 

You cannot play with the complexion 2, when closing the racemenu, the complexion (nose texture, ear) the nose texture is changed to the other complexion

 

  I like complexion number 2 for the noses of fruit bats or for some types of nose (like the one with the pointed nose in the previous image)

Spoiler

 

Fruit bat nose complexion 2

20201127002533_1.jpg.debf74d217f944aaeffd88d3c10ea2d3.jpg

 

Fruit bat complexion 1

20201127002522_1.jpg.03584019762a0ff817eb6d343d6635cf.jpg

 

 

 

 

 

 

 And the number 1 complexion, it is perfect for leaf nose types ?

 

 Here i have a picture of my leaf nosed type bat

Spoiler

20201113053641_1-1.jpg.f3aaaa19b395a6d3c5e9a52651334273.jpg

 

 Is it possible to fix the problem of wanting to play with another compkexion without reverting to the default complexion in bat males?

 

 With bat women they don't have the complexion problem

 As I have always said, bat women only have otter feet but in general, they are so perfect

 

 Thanks again for all that you've done❤️

 

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Maybe a new Rat race, or a Frog race? Or like MadMansGun suggested an insect race would be interesting. Or maybe...

Mind Flayer Race...?

??

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@Bad Dog

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There was a suggestion that Fallout 4 needed furrification

Oh, yes, it definitely needs that. At the very least it needs more anthro races, though I won't lie, a "Yiffy Age of the Commonwealth" mod would be pretty damn neat. First things first though, I guess. Gotta have new races to turn people into first, but since Skyrim races can be ported, it's not like you'd be starting completely from scratch. :classic_rolleyes:

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Apparently every face morph is its own nif?

I think I've already explained it somewhere, but I'll try to do a TL;DR on face stuff here:

  • Facial Expressions/Mouth Animations: FO4 uses Skyrim-style TRI morphs. The actual morph set is different from Skyrim's own ones, so even if you port a Skyrim race you'd have to rebuild this, but you may be able to use some of Skyrim's morphs as a base for the FO4 ones, and the process is pretty straightforward otherwise, just good ol' TRI creating drill.
  • Chargen - The FaceBones Way: the game's default chargen system uses facebones: there's like a bazillion different special bones in the head area for every small part of the face that the head mesh gets weighted to, and then you have a data sheet telling the game the way in which each bone should be editable in game: translation/rotation/scale and which are the "valid" ranges (to avoid eldritch monstrosities). This is supposedly pretty straightforward once you get the hang of it, it's probably just a SMP-physics-config-tier clusterfuck to read in the first place.
  • Chargen - The TRIs Way: the game also supports Skyrim-style chargen morphs packed in TRIs. Good news here is unlike Skyrim which had a limited set of vanilla morph "slots" and anything outside of them needed to be injected into RaceMenu, FO4 has no limit on how many sliders/morphs it can have by default, so in theory you can have infinite morphs and they will all work in the CK for NPCs and shit. Creating them is just like in Skyrim: start sculpting and go to town. Literally the only "quirk" here is that the morphs must have "Type" as part of their name so the CK can identify them properly and make them selectable. That's it. Instead of naming the morph "BrowsBack" or "CheekUp", you name it "BrowsBackType1" or "CheekUpType1", and so on. Boom. You're golden.

My research has shown you can either use a combination of TRI Chargen and FaceBones chargen, or just dump the FaceBones altogether and stick to TRI Chargen only, so this shouldn't be a problem if you don't want to deal with bone fuckery and prefer to stick to Skyrim-style TRI chargen only. You can even reuse existing Skyrim morphs for this.

 

Dunno if there's other stuff you should know so just feel free to ask any other questions you may have about FO4 stuff.

 

I'll just add a small bit that I think can be interesting: FO4 allows you to have race-specific ArmorAddons while still supporting ArmorRace references. Meaning, you can set HumanRace as the ArmorRace for a beast race so the beasts use human gear automatically without the need for patches or edits or whatever, but if you have a custom ArmorAddon set for use by the race, the game will load that one instead of the human version. So in theory you can have infinite custom races using unique fit meshes each without conflict or overlap and still have working human meshes for the same items. Do I need to explain why this is pretty damn good news? ?

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And what are the gotchas in the skeleton?

The "gotcha" is that Beth did a bad (as usual), and if you have the player point to a skeleton nif that is not on the vanilla/default path, the game CTDs for some unfathomable reason. So for example if you create a digi skeleton, you have to place it in the default path, thus also causing any other vanilla humanoid to have it applied as well. I guess this isn't really a problem for a hypothetical "YAOTC" mod, and there's still ways around it to avoid loading it on not-supposed-to-be-digi NPCs even for standalone race mods (I can get into detail with those later if need be), so it's not a dealbreaker, just another obstacle to jump over.

 

TBH I'm not sure digi should be a thing in FO4 if you ever get into it, and even if it is, I've seen digi done with body meshes only so that's an option as well. The "custom races can actually use custom gear separate from humans" thing above would mean hypothetical digi-using anthro races can have all gear refit for their digi body and behave independently from human (planti) meshes, so there's that too.

 

(Case in point):

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3ao80qr7hpsronyzg.jpg?size_id=a

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There was a suggestion that Fallout 4 needed furrification.

It definitely does and right now, there's more custom races for it than I ever expected there to be, considering all the limitations and kinks it has. I'm still willing to back the endeavor too if wanted (<generic reminder to check the older PM chains here>).

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Does anyone have an answer for @Raydric's question upthread? I supplied two head complexions with the bats, but if you choose the alternate it doesn't stick. Anyone know of something special about that that has to be done to make it work right?

 

For FO4 morphs, there's a whole folder there of expression morphs, each in its own nif. Is that not used or a different thing or ?

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56 minutes ago, Bad Dog said:

Does anyone have an answer for @Raydric's question upthread? I supplied two head complexions with the bats, but if you choose the alternate it doesn't stick. Anyone know of something special about that that has to be done to make it work right?

I know there's an old known bug where the game sometimes ignores part of the assigned TXST/head complexion and reverts to using whatever specular and _sk map are listed in the head nif texture paths themselves; this may be something similar.

 

...in which case, it's an engine bug and I don't think there's anything to do about it. :classic_wacko:

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For FO4 morphs, there's a whole folder there of expression morphs, each in its own nif. Is that not used or a different thing or ?

I have no idea what you're talking about so I'm going to say "not used" indeed. There's a ton of WIP/unused/dev files in the game archives so maybe you just stumbled upon one such example? The "final" game definitely doesn't use nifs for facial expressions, it just uses a standard TRI file like Skyrim. I'll check in case I can find what you're talking about in particular, though.

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1 hour ago, Bad Dog said:

there's a whole folder there of expression morphs, each in its own nif. Is that not used or a different thing or ?

Oh, crap, you meant these?

Untitled.jpg

 

Those look like copies of the base male human head with each one of the TRI morphs applied to them. The "list" itself seems correct (as in, each nif in there corresponds to one of the facial morphs from the TRI), but the actual morphs used by the game are still stored in a standard TRI file as in Skyrim.

 

I'm guessing these are some WIP/dev files created to have a quicker way to preview what the expressions would look like and how they might clip with facewear and shit without having to load the head nif and then apply the morphs every single time they wanted to check.

 

TL;DR: not used, dev files, ignore them. Facial expressions are stored in a standard TRI just like in Skyrim.

 

EDIT: the TRI files you want to check are "Meshes\Actors\Character\CharacterAssets\BaseMaleHead.tri" and "Meshes\Actors\Character\CharacterAssets\BaseFemaleHead.tri".

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There's a method of handling tris which involves exporting each as a separate file then reassembling them into the final tri file. Maybe this is an artifact of something like that. 

 

One of the issues with doing FO4 is I've never really played the game (got a few hours in, went off and did something else) so I don't have a good feel for what makes sense.

 

13 minutes ago, Blaze69 said:

I know there's an old known bug where the game sometimes ignores part of the assigned TXST/head complexion and reverts to using whatever specular and _sk map are listed in the head nif texture paths themselves; this may be something similar.

I've seen that in some of my SSE conversions, why I make sure the nifs have correct paths in them these days. Maybe I'll go ask on the RaceMenu thread tho I've never gotten anything out of those guys.

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4 minutes ago, Bad Dog said:

There's a method of handling tris which involves exporting each as a separate file then reassembling them into the final tri file. Maybe this is an artifact of something like that. 

That could be an option too, I guess.

4 minutes ago, Bad Dog said:

One of the issues with doing FO4 is I've never really played the game (got a few hours in, went off and did something else) so I don't have a good feel for what makes sense.

Feel free to ask whenever you are unsure about something, then. Or just let me know what things you'd like a rundown of and I'll do my best to provide it.

4 minutes ago, Bad Dog said:

I've seen that in some of my SSE conversions, why I make sure the nifs have correct paths in them these days. Maybe I'll go ask on the RaceMenu thread tho I've never gotten anything out of those guys.

I wouldn't really keep my hopes up re expired chiming in and fixing it. For example LooksMenu used to have a bug where using the "Toggle/Remove Clothes" option would always cause a CTD no matter what, and said bug has been known literally for more than a year and yet it was only fixed, like, a month ago. If that's how long it takes to fix a game-breaking bug in one of the mod's functions, a fix for such a "niche" engine bug will happen... never at all. :classic_unsure:

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1 hour ago, ithinkicould.idontknow said:

Maybe a Bear race? would thematically fit the skyrim region

My vote too, but I see why you'd want to move on from Skyrim

 

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6 hours ago, ithinkicould.idontknow said:

Maybe a Bear race? would thematically fit the skyrim region

Okay, I have to admit this would be neat as well. I still vote for FO4 anthro races first, but if it has to be Skyrim stuff instead (or maybe as well if you don't mind juggling both games at once? Maybe could help since you could alternate when things get stale in one of them?), this doesn't sound like a bad idea at all.

 

Plus, any working Skyrim race is base resources that could in theory be ported to FO4 later and I have a small stash of Tarkov BEAR gear that's just asking for anthro bears to slap them on, lol.

3 hours ago, MadMansGun said:

Yiffy Age of New Vegas (also by default FO3 because they are mostly cross compatible, so "2 birds, 1 stone")

Ehh... honestly, I'd advice against that. :classic_unsure:

 

Much as I'll defend New Vegas' writing/plot/characters/setting hell or high water over FO4's and even FO3's, gameplay-wise the game just hasn't aged well, like, at all. I don't think I'd be able to play the game anymore, it's just... old and janky. Literally the only advantage I see it having over FO4 is that it still has a working race selector (because Beth didn't know how to make white people and black people and Asian people and Hispanic people use the same base human race without overriding each other's assets so they had to split them into separate races), that's it. Everything else is just pure jank.

 

Hopefully F4NV and Fallout Capital Wasteland will actually happen sometime so we can play through FO3 and FNV but in FO4's engine.

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So what exactly needs to be done for FO4? Blaze just posted pics of a jackal-ish character, Lykaios are already there, maybe foxes. How many races are there already?

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1 hour ago, Bad Dog said:

How many races are there already?

the sharks are also in there, but i don't know what else is there since i don't own that game.

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5 hours ago, Bad Dog said:

So what exactly needs to be done for FO4?

You mean as a whole (i.e. "what kind of mods would I have to work on?") or are you asking about the steps for making custom races in the game?

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Blaze just posted pics of a jackal-ish character

...that's supposed to be a wolf, though. :classic_unsure:

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Lykaios are already there,

They most definitely are not. There's an upcoming wolf-ish race (aka the one in the pics I posted above) that looks pretty damn good so far, but the Lykaios are their own separate thing thanks to Kritta's talent so I wouldn't rule them out for future porting/recreation at all.

 

(That being said, if you think Lykaios shouldn't have top priority on the hypothetical FO4 "Races To Do" list because there will be another wolf-like race available already, I guess that I can understand).

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maybe foxes.

Foxes do exist already in the form of the Vulpine Race, that I'll give you.

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How many races are there already?

Let's see:

...aaaand that's pretty much it. So basically any species that isn't one of those will be more than welcome as playable anthro races, lol (and even then as I said above I'd still like to get Lykaios in the Commonwealth at some point regardless of how good Lupines are). So... felines, mustelids, ungulates, chiropterans, other made-from-scratch-instead-of-ported-from-Skyrim races... those would all do nicely. :classic_rolleyes:

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...And how many factions or groups are there? Since there are no built-in races (are there?) whole furry FO4 would be something like each cohesive faction gets a race. Towns and groups that are explicitly inclusive might have a mix of races. Could use cats and dogs intentionally or not. Factions that prize strength could use lions or minotaurs. Scientists could be lighter races. Etc etc. I think I need to get back into the game.

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3 hours ago, Bad Dog said:

...And how many factions or groups are there?

Well, I'm probably gonna miss a ton of them, but here's what I can think of:

  • Raiders: cannon fodder, like Bandits in Skyrim. Theme/looks-wise they're basically methheads with a Mad Max fetish. Don't think there's a common theme or cohesion or something: if you like drugs, are willing to kill other people to get more drugs, and are willing to do whatever your leader tells you to, you're in.
  • Gunners: supposedly some tough-ass mercenary outfit with a military/Army theme (thus being more organized than Raiders, and even have tactical-ish callouts in combat and shit). In reality, Beth being Beth and halfassing everything means they are basically just Raiders but with green-painted clothes. Guess them being a bit more cohesive and being made up of one or a handful predatory races would make sense.
  • Institute: former MIT personnel that grabbed all their shiny tech and toys and went underground, now pull all the strings in Boston from the shadows. They're basically 50s pulp sci-fi "For SCIENCE!" types. They use synths to operate; Gen 1 and Gen 2 are robots ("Terminator exoskeleton" and "weird mannequin androids", respectively), Gen 3 are lab-vat-grown humans with a mind control chip. Dunno what to do about synths, but for the Institute people themselves... I guess them all belonging to the same species would make sense, what with them being effectively cut off from the outside world except for one or two headhunted wastelanders (like Dr. Li).
  • Settlers: random wastelanders trying to make a living. I guess not a "faction" per-se, but still. Probably better to be inclusive/random.
  • Minutemen: random wastelanders that decided to grab a gun and try to help other people. Effectively just a bunch of sorry-ass Revolutionary War LARPers until the player comes along and does everything for them... then they remain unchanged and equally useless. Possibly better as inclusive/random too just like settlers.
  • Railroad: pro-Synth-freedom and anti-Institute rebels. Whatever Gen 3 synths are replaced with, they should be the same, probably (can't remember which ones are synths and which are just sympathetic humans).
  • Children of Atom: crazy cultists that worship radiation and "Atom". Usually found near irradiated places, their "base" is the crater where the only nuke to hit Boston landed (and thus irradiated to hell and back). Implied to have some kind of biological radiation resistance (possibly a random mutation?), or else they'd just puke their guts out and die of radiation poisoning. See potential for unique species selection, but... not sure which, lol. :classic_wacko:
  • Brotherhood of Steel: former US Army members that saw the shit that humanity did right up to the nuclear apocalypse and decided to form some kind of knightly-ish order/cult to keep tech away from the hands of lowly wastelanders and prevent Apocalypse 2: Nuclear Boogaloo. Very militaristic, fanciest gear in Boston outside of the Institute (and fanciest combat gear period), and are in Boston to exterminate the Synths and destroy the institute. I'd call them "human supremacists" and they will hate whatever other species Gen 3 synths are, in case that helps pick which species to replace them with, lol.
  • Triggermen: Boston's former Mafia goons still being a pain in the ass even after the world got nuked, basically. Complete with tons of ghouls that used to be actual gangsters before the War. Very stereotypical, with suits and fedoras and Tommy guns and 50s shitty movie accents and dialogue.
  • The Pack: Nuka World gang. Mean sons of bitches themed around animals/predators. Cool logo and cool concept, but as usual Beth gonna Beth so they look like raider methheads that just looted the Zoo gift shop. Gotta be predators, methinks; possibly wolves or similar. (Guess a mix could work too).
  • The Disciples: Nuka World gang. Blade-loving nutjobs with a thirst for blood. Also like to cover their faces and leave nothing exposed apart from their mouths at most. Think these lend themselves to some interesting species assignment, but I'm unsure which just yet, lol.
  • The Operators: Nuka World gang. Mix of militia and Mafia-ish goons out for illicit profit. Not sure what to do here.

As I said I'm missing a ton and dunno if these descriptions are of any help, but figured I'd post it.

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Since there are no built-in races (are there?)

Nope, all humans are HumanRace. Most you get is Ghouls being a different race (GhoulRace, duh), but that's it. Even Gen 3 Synths are just regular humans with a hidden "+ Energy Resistance" spell and a Death Item List that causes the synth component to spawn on them when they die.

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whole furry FO4 would be something like each cohesive faction gets a race. Towns and groups that are explicitly inclusive might have a mix of races. Could use cats and dogs intentionally or not. Factions that prize strength could use lions or minotaurs. Scientists could be lighter races.

Guess that makes sense. See above for some of my thoughts on some of the factions.

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I think I need to get back into the game.

...yeah, that's probably the best way to get an idea of who's who yourself, lol. That or browse the Fallout Wiki and checking the Factions list.

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15 hours ago, Blaze69 said:

You mean as a whole (i.e. "what kind of mods would I have to work on?") or are you asking about the steps for making custom races in the game?

...that's supposed to be a wolf, though. :classic_unsure:

They most definitely are not. There's an upcoming wolf-ish race (aka the one in the pics I posted above) that looks pretty damn good so far, but the Lykaios are their own separate thing thanks to Kritta's talent so I wouldn't rule them out for future porting/recreation at all.

 

(That being said, if you think Lykaios shouldn't have top priority on the hypothetical FO4 "Races To Do" list because there will be another wolf-like race available already, I guess that I can understand).

Foxes do exist already in the form of the Vulpine Race, that I'll give you.

Let's see:

...aaaand that's pretty much it. So basically any species that isn't one of those will be more than welcome as playable anthro races, lol (and even then as I said above I'd still like to get Lykaios in the Commonwealth at some point regardless of how good Lupines are). So... felines, mustelids, ungulates, chiropterans, other made-from-scratch-instead-of-ported-from-Skyrim races... those would all do nicely. :classic_rolleyes:

I apologize for asking about it here, but where can I follow the development of the Lupine Race mod that you've mentioned?

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A challenge?  How about a spider "webbing with a snare line" "dragging the victim to itself" "caging her in with it's eight arms" and then "copulating with her"?

 

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@Blaze69 Your summary makes me think part of the whole FO4 thing is that the world got nuked and everything got scrambled. So maybe it doesn't make sense to try to make things too coherent--part of the point is that a whole bunch of misfits got tossed together and have to make a life together. Maybe some of the particularly asshole-ish groups (the scientists, the mafia types) might retain a vestige of their former coherence but that's all.

 

I'm thinking of a variant of the furrifier that runs through and furrifies NPCs pretty much randomly. I'm hoping changing races won't break anything, but if nothing expects different races nothing will be looking for them. Maybe. 

 

I dunno about all that gear but cross that bridge when necessary I guess.

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On 12/26/2020 at 5:35 AM, ithinkicould.idontknow said:

Maybe a Bear race? would thematically fit the skyrim region

As far as I know, there already is one contained in Crimes Against Nature mod. Maybe rework some races from there?

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