SE Compatibility Tracking (Apr 23)

[The Dragonwhore]

Hey, just thought id point out that the RohZima (Pfiffy) animation link doesn't work

[Pfiffy]

34 minutes ago, AnInsaneMoose said:

Hey, just thought id point out that the RohZima (Pfiffy) animation link doesn't work

Roh wanted me to take it down.

[EinarrTheRed]

And that was the issue, those idle markers being visible.  Seems we could never completely eliminate it, some people saw them and some didn't and I never knew why, much less how to solve it.  I currently don't use SE and so can't do the conversion myself, so I have to rely on others for that which can get awkward when there isn't good communication.  I've left standing open permission for someone to convert the mod to SE if you can reliably solve the issues, but if you do the conversion I'll point people at you to give support on it because I can't.  I don't mean that to sound grouchy, its just fact, I can't support it because since I don't currently even have SE installed its not possible for me to give any support on a SE version.  These days I'm struggling to find time to work on my existing mods and making time for SE just isn't possible for me right now.

 

If someone does manage a conversion, keep in touch so we can work together on any updates I may do to the mod in the future (there may be at least one, if I can ever track down what's causing a bug I was finally able to reproduce).

 

Thanks for the compliments on the mod. 

[Pfiffy]

7 minutes ago, EinarrTheRed said:

And that was the issue, those idle markers being visible.  Seems we could never completely eliminate it, some people saw them and some didn't and I never knew why, much less how to solve it.  I currently don't use SE and so can't do the conversion myself, so I have to rely on others for that which can get awkward when there isn't good communication.  I've left standing open permission for someone to convert the mod to SE if you can reliably solve the issues, but if you do the conversion I'll point people at you to give support on it because I can't.  I don't mean that to sound grouchy, its just fact, I can't support it because since I don't currently even have SE installed its not possible for me to give any support on a SE version.  These days I'm struggling to find time to work on my existing mods and making time for SE just isn't possible for me right now.

 

If someone does manage a conversion, keep in touch so we can work together on any updates I may do to the mod in the future (there may be at least one, if I can ever track down what's causing a bug I was finally able to reproduce).

 

Thanks for the compliments on the mod. 

I had this trouble, too when I did the conversion of ZAZ and solved it by not converting the markers. But someone will for sure find them and convert them and then complain about that they are visible afterwards...

 

[EinarrTheRed]

3 minutes ago, Pfiffy said:

I had this trouble, too when I did the conversion of ZAZ and solved it by not converting the markers. But someone will for sure find them and convert them and then complain about that they are visible afterwards...

 

So you're volunteering to convert the mod? ?

 

Fred was working on it, if he wants to try that and repost for testing we can give it a whirl.  The problem for me is that whatever anyone does I have to take their word for it since I can't even test the conversion currently.  If it doesn't work, there's pretty much nothing I can do since I can neither see the problem nor directly work on it.

 

[fred200]

Well shoot - I had forgotten I was using my own conversion.... Knew there was a reason I liked it...

If what I have is current, I will shoot it over to EtR.

[EinarrTheRed]

Link to the update posted in the support thread.

 

 

[Pfiffy]

5 hours ago, EinarrTheRed said:

So you're volunteering to convert the mod? ?

 

Fred was working on it, if he wants to try that and repost for testing we can give it a whirl.  The problem for me is that whatever anyone does I have to take their word for it since I can't even test the conversion currently.  If it doesn't work, there's pretty much nothing I can do since I can neither see the problem nor directly work on it.

 

For me it was working out of the box. And I think to remember, that someone merged the bodies in the troublemakes into one, so that they can be converted correctly. I don't know if I put them into the last rework. Note: For some unkown reason the Bodys sometimes don't place themself correctly into the ZAZ furniture and I don't know why they do that or if this is a SSE specific problem. If it is, we will need an Animator to have a look at them and see if we can fix them. By the way: It is Freds Baby.... I don't want to adopt another one. 

[Content Consumer]

2 minutes ago, Pfiffy said:

For some unkown reason the Bodys sometimes don't place themself correctly into the ZAZ furniture and I don't know why they do that or if this is a SSE specific problem. If it is, we will need an Animator to have a look at them and see if we can fix them. 

Vanilla furniture has the same problem. I frequently see NPCs sitting on midair a few feet away from chairs, for example. I don't think it's specifically an SSE problem either, because I remember it happening quite often in Skyrim LE, though I must admit it does seem to happen more often in SSE.

[Lucifeller]

Why is it that so many LL mods require Devious Devices anyway? It really puts a damper on me using a lot of available mods out there since I am plagued by CTDs from DD events like vibrations et al, and some devices straight up crash the game when equipped. And no, it's not a faulty install. This happened even with a fresh redownload, and a cursory glance at the DD topic showed others have those issues... which makes some mods I'd otherwise try a no-go. Pity.

[Just Don't]

37 minutes ago, Lucifeller said:

Why is it that so many LL mods require Devious Devices anyway? It really puts a damper on me using a lot of available mods out there since I am plagued by CTDs from DD events like vibrations et al, and some devices straight up crash the game when equipped. And no, it's not a faulty install. This happened even with a fresh redownload, and a cursory glance at the DD topic showed others have those issues... which makes some mods I'd otherwise try a no-go. Pity.

Define "many". Which ones?

 

Usually mods with DD as a requirement are mods based on DD stuff or with a strong bondage theme, so it only makes sense to have it as a requirement...

[WandererZero]

1 hour ago, Lucifeller said:

Why is it that so many LL mods require Devious Devices anyway?

 

46 minutes ago, dontknowdontcaredontask said:

Usually mods with DD as a requirement are mods based on DD stuff or with a strong bondage theme, so it only makes sense to have it as a requirement...

 

I think, to rephrase things...the better question is: why do so many hard require DD to the exclusion of Zaz? I think, to be honest...if people had a choice of Zaz or DD, people would go with Zaz, if they could...simply to save the overhead.

 

DD as a requirement is more of a serious commitment. The fact that so many mods require it to the exclusion of everything else (like Zaz) is what people get annoyed with.

[sfdrake]

I hate DD

[fiinhvip]

5 minutes ago, sfdrake said:

I hate DD

...then just don't use it, simple, no offense though

[Pfiffy]

Well, ZAZ is (for the most parts) furniture, DD is clothing. It does not make sense to compare them. 

[WandererZero]

19 minutes ago, Pfiffy said:

Well, ZAZ is (for the most parts) furniture, DD is clothing. It does not make sense to compare them. 

The key bit there is, "for the most part". Plenty of restraints and things that could be used for things like SD+...heck, there are restraints included in some of the SLAL packs. I realize DD is sort of a one stop shop, but I also think it sometimes does too much, and with some of the mod builds people are trying for...can be totally not worth the "asking price" in terms of overhead. That's a valid criticism, and it's often dismissed as "well, don't run it then" which misses the point, really: there's an opportunity for a lighter framework here to do some lighter lifting, add some stuff needed for SD+ without the huge overhead of DD.

 

I use DD, but the criticisms about DD aren't new...and more than a few of them are valid criticisms. Criticism is never a bad thing. (I mean, criticism, not just one line complaints like "I hate DD")

 

The mod ecosystem has a lot to gain through wide interoperability, not less. That's all I, and others are saying here. It's not that DD is "good" or "bad"...which is wholly a subjective stance. It's that it's one solution that other modders have latched onto, and by doing so...has reduced the amount of choice for people who simply want to get their freak on without adding a the whole catalog from Pleasure Chest.

[4nk8r]

I'm not a fan of DD content in general, nor the overhead, but I do like me some mods that use it.  That said, this seems more a discussion to be taken to the individual mod authors in question vs being a public debate.  We shouldn't try to employ community pressure to steer what mod authors use in their development.  It will just lead to toxicity and run people off.

 

Maybe the mod authors' are open to suggestions and encouragement, or even a little a$$i$tance, to make the changes you're suggesting...but expect to keep ordering the same free food from the menu you've been given.  Tip your server generously

[Lucifeller]

1 hour ago, WandererZero said:

The key bit there is, "for the most part". Plenty of restraints and things that could be used for things like SD+...heck, there are restraints included in some of the SLAL packs. I realize DD is sort of a one stop shop, but I also think it sometimes does too much, and with some of the mod builds people are trying for...can be totally not worth the "asking price" in terms of overhead. That's a valid criticism, and it's often dismissed as "well, don't run it then" which misses the point, really: there's an opportunity for a lighter framework here to do some lighter lifting, add some stuff needed for SD+ without the huge overhead of DD.

 

I use DD, but the criticisms about DD aren't new...and more than a few of them are valid criticisms. Criticism is never a bad thing. (I mean, criticism, not just one line complaints like "I hate DD")

 

The mod ecosystem has a lot to gain through wide interoperability, not less. That's all I, and others are saying here. It's not that DD is "good" or "bad"...which is wholly a subjective stance. It's that it's one solution that other modders have latched onto, and by doing so...has reduced the amount of choice for people who simply want to get their freak on without adding a the whole catalog from Pleasure Chest.

Thank you! That's exactly how I feel.

Take capture-type slavery mods for example. Do you really need fancy dresses, butt plugs and the like just to keep a captured wench from escaping? I'd imagine shackles, yokes and pillories (both included in Zaz) would be sufficient, but no - almost every interesting slavery mod goes with DD, piling up a lot of pointless material just to make use of things that are already included in the basic Zaz pack... I don't know, really. It makes no sense to want one or two items already available in other mods and require an extremely bloated all-purpose BDSM mod for just those few things.

Hell you can always just extract some choice restraints like Sexy Bandit Captives does. It's more than sufficient to have a prisoner theme and won't forcefully saddle you with several mb of mod that pretty much does nothing else for yours.

If the mod is something like SD+, which has a HEAVY BDSM play emphasis, I could understand that, but if all you want to do is light bondage every now and then, Zaz is more than sufficient, saves a plugin in the load order, and saves a lot of compatibility issues and troubleshooting. I just wish modders would consider just how much emphasis they're gonna put on use of Devious Devices instead of arbitrarily assuming "it has restraints, so it'll need DD!" without even looking at lightweight alternatives. Zaz has a bunch of nice furniture that so far, all of TWO mods (I think) use. The rest go and get DD... often to use the exact same furniture and restraints Zaz offers without the added hassle of an extra download.

[Lucifeller]

3 minutes ago, 4nk8r said:

I'm not a fan of DD content in general, nor the overhead, but I do like me some mods that use it.  That said, this seems more a discussion to be taken to the individual mod authors in question vs being a public debate.  We shouldn't try to employ community pressure to steer what mod authors use in their development.  It will just lead to toxicity and run people off.

 

Maybe the mod authors' are open to suggestions and encouragement, or even a little a$$i$tance, to make the changes you're suggesting...but expect to keep ordering the same free food from the menu you've been given.  Tip your server generously

Point taken. Sorry for the tangent, it's just that I was looking over the mod list for some nice light slavery mods, and I kept running into DD as a hard requirement no matter how 'lightweight' the mod in question was, so I was getting just a bit frustrated, and vented here. My apologies for it.

[WandererZero]

5 minutes ago, 4nk8r said:

That said, this seems more a discussion to be taken to the individual mod authors in question vs being a public debate.  We shouldn't try to employ community pressure to steer what mod authors use in their development.  It will just lead to toxicity and run people off.

 

Maybe the mod authors' are open to suggestions and encouragement, or even a little a$$i$tance, to make the changes you're suggesting...but expect to keep ordering the same free food from the menu you've been given.  Tip your server generously

While I see what you're saying here, I'll respectfully and wholeheartedly disagree on the premise of: A rising tide lifts all boats.

 

Whether you're talking about money or not, there is a mod economy of sorts. The more people who can play this content, the more it tends to translate into a benefit for all players, as well as the author. Nobody's trying to employ the community to do anything. The community can do that on its own, as a natural function...and should probably avail themselves of that more often.

 

Free software does not, I repeat...does not exempt anyone from constructive criticism. Ever. Also, I think conflating "criticizing popular mod, respectfully with thought and structured arguments" with "public debate" denotes a poor interpretation. Again, constructive criticism is an important part of any development. It's one avenue for improving an unsatisfactory status quo. To summarize: the analogy isn't "You're poor, so you should be grateful for whatever food you get" it's "Hey, this is a cool thing, thanks for sharing it...and here's how I think it could be better, if you're willing to listen". I see to many folks look at the relationship between mod authors and mod users as the former, when it should be the latter. Mod authors should absolutely be respected, they are performing a service, and are kind enough to share it. It doesn't make the users automatic peasants who must swear fealty.

 

That said, I realize this is the SSE tracker, and while it's not the correct forum for this...I was originally replying to someone who had an honest critical view, one shared by many...a viewpoint often dismissed or waved away.

[4nk8r]

Me: I made pizza, want a slice?

X: You put pineapple on there.  Too many people don't like pineapple.  You shouldn't use pineapple.

Me: Well, pick it out or don't eat it.  I like it this way.

X: It's chopped up too fine and the cheese is covering it.  It's too hard to remove it.  It would be better if you made another one with olives instead.  More people here like olives than pineapple.

Me: I'll consider it next time.

Time goes by...

Me: I have more free pizza.

X: This still has pineapple on it!?!?

Me: Well, only a few others said anything about it.  Most everyone else seems OK with it.

X: (Standing on a table in the room) "How many people here would rather have olives, instead of pineapple, on pizza?  See?!  Look at all the hands.  Almost nobody likes pineapple.  Don't look mad...Free food doesn't exempt you from constructive criticism, especially if you're sharing it with the community."

Me: Fair enough.  But, if nobody likes my pizza, why do you all keep eating it?

X: Nobody else makes pizza, so if we want pizza we have to keep eating yours...but we won't like it as much as if it had olives.  And we're going to remind you we don't like it every time you bring more with pineapples instead of olives.  But we're still going to eat it, though, unless you get pissed off and take your pizza somewhere else... But then we'll probably just follow you there to get more of your free pizza...and still tell you we like olives instead.  Until you stop offering free pizza and open up a Patreon pizza shop.  Then we'll condemn you for charging for your previously free pizza...until you stop offering pizza, that is.

 

[MadMansGun]

21 minutes ago, 4nk8r said:

.

fuck olives, i want pineapple.

[GenioMaestro]

I don't know where the problem is and I don't quote anyone because I don't want to start a personal war.

 

Please, leave the creators of the mods out of this conversation because, first of all, we have the mods we have thanks to them. And secondly, if you are NOT a creator of mods, you do not know the complications behind the mods or why a creator decides to use a framework, the other or both.

 

On the other hand, it seems that some people think that Skyrim is tremendously delicate. In his words, using a certain framework breaks the game. The use of some scripts gives problems to the game. Some
theoretically unnecessary modifications overload the game and break it. But all that is totally false.

 

If your game breaks is because are incorrectly configured or because yours modifications are bad installed or because you are using bad conversions in SE. The game admits one billion more things than you can have.
Do you have 1500 mods with more than 1000 merges? NO
Does your game execute hundreds and hundreds of scripts per minute? NO

Then, the problem is not in the game or in the framework or in the scripts or whatever you think.

 

When we configure the game correctly, we install the mods correctly and do the conversions correctly, all the problems disappear. Stop blaming other people for yours problems.

[tasairis]

Pineapple on pizza is heresy.

 

On 2/14/2020 at 3:17 PM, alyosh said:

Arousiing weather seems to work without conversion. I use it with Obsidian weather

Are you using the CoW version or the non-CoW version? Seems the latter has problems.

[alyosh]

10 minutes ago, tasairis said:

Pineapple on pizza is heresy.

 

Are you using the CoW version or the non-CoW version? Seems the latter has problems.

There are 3 .esp in the folder :

• arousing_weather_plugin.esp
• arousing_weather_new_lands.esp
• arousing_weather_climates_of_tamriel.esp

I only use the first, I haven' tested the others

(sorry for my bad English, I'm French)