Devious Devices Framework Development/Beta

[zarantha]

1 hour ago, indolu said:

This may have been answered before but will a new save be required for DD5, and if so when do you expect DD5 to officially release? I'm thinking about waiting until the release to start my new game.

Yes a new game will be required. Should be soon™.

[zarantha]

@Kimy  I would also like to just be able to see and sometimes pick from the available list of animations the filter is selecting from, when the filter is in effect. But since there is a limited animation set for now, it would be nice to pick one sometimes when the RNG keeps picking the same one. Or to see that the reason the same one is picked is because there is only one available. I usually leave the filter enabled, and it does get repetitive at times before I can escape the devices.

 

So, just an idea for the 'later on features' pile, it doesn't have to work like or integrate with sexlab tools I think, although that would be convenient. If the pop up and ability to manually pick one out of several animations meeting all the requirements isn't an option for whatever reason, what about a section in the DD mcm giving data on how the animation was selected? List what devices trigger the filter becoming active, and what animations are available for those devices individually and in total? If the filter is not active/running during the last (or current) animation selection phase, this could also be stated. This could give users immediate feedback on if the filter is or isn't the problem, without having to dig through the logs.

 

And one more question, you mentioned before that you need the hkx files to add more animations. The slal packs that have bound animations do have hkx, what is preventing them from being used? the animobjects instead of the actual devices or permissions? How would someone go about adding animation to dd to see how it would look? no worries if you prefer not to say.

[Kimy]

2 hours ago, zarantha said:

Yes a new game will be required. Should be soon™.

Yes, at this point I think I can confirm the DD5 beta phase to be concluded. The final version should arrive at your door within the next few days. It will largely be the Beta 13 release.

[hungvipbcsok]

On 11/16/2020 at 12:55 PM, Zaflis said:

DL minigame when combined with devices escape chance would be ok. And instead of using stamina, a new internal stat could also be introduced; one that would increase on every struggle. Escapalogy skill would have say 10 levels, each taking twice longer than the previous level to max, and at max level you would get some 50-100% bonus to the filling rate of escape bar.

I think the idea of internal stats was on board a long time ago but the problem is Skyrim engine limited

[Kimy]

13 minutes ago, hungvipbcsok said:

I think the idea of internal stats was on board a long time ago but the problem is Skyrim engine limited

Actually, some internal stat like that exists since DD4, but it's not global for every device, just the one you're "working" on.

[abds100]

 

3 hours ago, Kimy said:

Yes, at this point I think I can confirm the DD5 beta phase to be concluded. The final version should arrive at your door within the next few days. It will largely be the Beta 13 release.

Are we going to find the 9.0 update of DCL here as soon as the final version of DD5 is released?

[Zaflis]

3 hours ago, hungvipbcsok said:

I think the idea of internal stats was on board a long time ago but the problem is Skyrim engine limited

I don't know what you mean by that. DD is already using many internal properties, for example to track your expertise in various devices. You can see them in your active effects too and you get notifications in top left.

 

But primarily my point was that the current DL minigame might be ignoring the device difficulty properties that modders set. Struggle or cutting chances at least. They need to be taken into account when counting how fast the struggle-bar moves. There are easy and hard devices.

[Eisenkocher]

11 hours ago, Nymra said:

2. I think I brought this up before, but could you improve DD 5 compatibility with Sexlab tools (ignore me if this is already achived)
Meaning if DD uses its bound animations, that I can press "H" on Sexlab tools and chose another of the available bound animations instead.
Dunno why but in the past I often had the "problem" that I saw the same yoke animation 3x in a row, even with 12 animations available. 

I am not Kimy and I do not want to beat a dead horse - but as was said quite often already in this thread:

 

It is the job of the mod building on the frameworks to provide compatibility, not the job of the frameworks to morph themselves to fix the shortcommings of the mods that build on them. 

Basically there is a hierarchy: 1. Sexlab 2. DD Framework 3. Everything else

A framework is supposed to work as good and predictable as possible, but if a mod fails to work within a framework then go to that mod and ask its author to change it. Not the author of the framework.

Now if something in the "Everything else" category does not work with a mod from the second category you don't change something in the second category, you change the mod in the third. If you do it any other way you WILL break other mods in the third category unnecessarily in the longer term. 

 

DD is doing a good job in remaining backwards compatibile. Sometimes there are changes necessary that break things - like the armbinder keyword thing with DD4, which lead to a great improvement to wrist restraints since then. Even the equip changes in DD5 do not break old mods. They might have a smaller pool of devices, but they still work. That is exactly how a framework is supposed to be. 

The way people come to Kimy about basically everything is a really stupid situation. Because Kimy is so active and does actually do a lot of visible troubleshooting and support people seem to always go to Kimy when they have an issue around Devious Devices or functions related to them. Even when a lot, if not most of all issues are related to mods using the framework. 

The Framework itself is so well tested that usually the issue is either the user or another mod. People should troubleshoot according to that premise, most of them would be helped by doing so.

[Kimy]

13 hours ago, abds100 said:

 

Are we going to find the 9.0 update of DCL here as soon as the final version of DD5 is released?

If you mean this thread specifically, no. This is the DD framework development thread. DCL 9 will be found in DCL's thread.

 

When? No hard promises, but I plan to release it shortly after DD5, yes.

[Nymra]

2 hours ago, Eisenkocher said:

I am not Kimy and I do not want to beat a dead horse - but as was said quite often already in this thread:

 

It is the job of the mod building on the frameworks to provide compatibility, not the job of the frameworks to morph themselves to fix the shortcommings of the mods that build on them. 

Basically there is a hierarchy: 1. Sexlab 2. DD Framework 3. Everything else

A framework is supposed to work as good and predictable as possible, but if a mod fails to work within a framework then go to that mod and ask its author to change it. Not the author of the framework.

Now if something in the "Everything else" category does not work with a mod from the second category you don't change something in the second category, you change the mod in the third. If you do it any other way you WILL break other mods in the third category unnecessarily in the longer term. 

 

Did you read my posts? No? Ok then
I still try to answer you: 

DD changes how Sexlab works and does not respect the Sexlab Framework, its submods, its main Animation Source (SLAL), Keywords, Foreplay System etc.  
DD adds duplicate Sex animations (most animations in DD are also in normal SLAL packs -> increasing HKX count) because of that. It is I think the only mod that does this. 

If you follow your own logic DD should respect Sexlab, allow Sexlab Submods to work (Sexlab Tools for example). Should use SLAL keywords to check for suitable animations and call them from Sexlab/SLAL the "normal" way, allowing it to work as intended. 
Instead it basically is its own Sex Framework next to Sexlab itself. I always found that confusing and unhealthy. I also dont see the necessity. I bet there is a solution that does not require the animations to be all integrated into DD itself. 

This way users would have a consistent experience and not two Frameworks that handle Sex Scenes differently. (It almost seems DD wants to be on 1. and not 2. in that regard). 
 

 

Quote

DD is doing a good job in remaining backwards compatibile. Sometimes there are changes necessary that break things - like the armbinder keyword thing with DD4, which lead to a great improvement to wrist restraints since then. Even the equip changes in DD5 do not break old mods. They might have a smaller pool of devices, but they still work. That is exactly how a framework is supposed to be. 

 

I am reading entirely different things all over the place. You ever happened to read the mod wars with Captured Dreams, Prison Overhaul and now Shout like a Virgin?
I mean DCL at some point basically was designed in a way to prevent Prison Overhaul from working. And it still basically breaks Guards which is still ignored.
So no. Just no. 
Not even mentioning removal of Zap Keywords from DD gags for NO reason but to fight ZAP 8+ out of mod lists. 
 

Quote

The way people come to Kimy about basically everything is a really stupid situation. Because Kimy is so active and does actually do a lot of visible troubleshooting and support people seem to always go to Kimy when they have an issue around Devious Devices or functions related to them. Even when a lot, if not most of all issues are related to mods using the framework. 

So... you design a framework and then you complain that your framework is important and people come to you because of that?
Sounds like a bad decision then. 
 

Quote

The Framework itself is so well tested that usually the issue is either the user or another mod. People should troubleshoot according to that premise, most of them would be helped by doing so.

No. 

[Kharos]

43 minutes ago, Nymra said:

Not even mentioning removal of Zap Keywords from DD gags for NO reason but to fight ZAP 8+ out of mod lists. 

To be fair, ZAP8+ is huge (much, much larger than ZAP 7 was). Using its keywords would make it a hard dependency for DD. Having such large dependencies is not good. It is especially not good if your mod is a framework mod that is in turn a dependency of many other mods. I think not having that dependency is technically the right decision, even if it causes issues for some other mods (e.g. PAHe not recognising DD gags).

[Kimy]

@Nymra: This will be your only warning: Write one more troll posting like the above, and you will go on my /ignore list and/or I will report you to the moderators. I am tired of people who just can't take no for an answer when I reject one of their suggestions demands, and then throw around baseless accusations and slander at me.

 

It's absolutely ridiculous to accuse me of waging a war against ZAP just because I removed my own dependency on it. ZAP and DD are both bondage frameworks. They are alternatives. There is not the slightest good reason for one to have a dependency on the other. T'ara and I agree on that. End of story.

 

It's also ridiculous to accuse me of "changing" SexLab, when I am just using features PROVIDED by SexLab for that exact reason. If SexLab's author didn't want 3rd party mods to do what I am doing, there wouldn't be an API for hooking into animations from outsides the framework, no?

 

Prison Overhaul: Yes, I added a feature to DCL competing with that mod, which for a while indeed meant that you had to chose which one to use. Which part of that isn't my complete right to do, again? People release competing mods all the time. Stop acting as if I had any obligation to remain compatible with everything else out there. I don't!!! And had I truly wanted to wage war against that mod, I wouldn't have added a compatibility feature for that mod at its users request, don't you think?

 

Shout Like a Virgin: Yeah, I am totally after that mod. I want to destroy it so badly that I spent the past weeks working with VirginMarie to make sure that it still runs in DD5. Riiiight.

 

Captured Dreams: You can blame that mod for me even being here. I am/was a complete fan of it. But yeah, I get it. I was at war with it and singlehandedly destroyed it! What ACTUALLY happened was a change in DD4 breaking some things in it, unfortunately. Partially because Vel didn't use DD's API the way it was intended. I am not blaming him for that, it just happened. But instead of allowing me to help him fixing the mod, which I OFFERED, he chose to throw dirt at me the same way you do, and go sulking in a corner. Yes, totally MY fault. When in doubt, just blame me for everything!

 

TL/DR Cut the bullshit already, or leave my thread if you can't!

[Eisenkocher]

1 hour ago, Nymra said:

If you follow your own logic DD should respect Sexlab, allow Sexlab Submods to work (Sexlab Tools for example)

No. Frameworks above content mods. Quite simple actually. 

 

1 hour ago, Nymra said:

I bet there is a solution that does not require the animations to be all integrated into DD itself. 

No. Sexlab has last been updated in 2016. And that was just a maintenance update. The last big update before that was when? 2013? DD was in its infancy back then. Maybe 15 devices total? Sexlab is not really updated any longer. It does not support bound animations. At all. 

 

Sexlab has a lot of tags - anal, oral, vaginal, aggressive etc. But not "armbinder" or "yoke" or "elbowbinder" or "breastyoke". So no, it is not possible to just use the default Sexlab animation selector. Why do you think people went to great length to write a different one? For the fun of it? 

Also the animation selector in the DD framework does already include all bound animations that fit with the devices. So if your issue is a lack of animations - don't use those devices. Or fix the lack of animations by creating more.
You are talking about consistency: All animations that fit are already included. What more do you want? Those that are not included don't work because they clip with the devices. That would not be consistent.

And if you still want to see other animations you can - the new animation filter specifically makes that possible without you having to see any clipping. So what is your issue?

 

1 hour ago, Nymra said:

You ever happened to read the mod wars

Yes. Captured dreams got pulled because the author was unhappy about the state it was in and unable to fix it due to health issues - it was very heavily bugged. I never managed a playthrough of it without having to use the console or the MCM to fix bugs, at least not after the very early days. 
It got pulled around the time where DD4 broke existing armbinders, but that one sure was not the ONE real reason. 

 

Prison Overhaul? The author did refuse to update to DD 4.0 for a long time. In the end he did update - probably spent way less time on the update than on fighting updating before. 
I don't think that that mess was handled well from all sides, but in the end we got a solution where you can use POP with DCUR and POP does not require one to stay on DCUR 3 and therefore miss out on other, newer mods. An ecosystem gets hurt a lot if one single mod refuses to update while all other mods do update. 

 

1 hour ago, Nymra said:

still basically breaks Guards

Guards are finnicky and a lot of mods alter them - mine work fine with DCUR installed. Maybe check what else in your loadorder might alter them? Otherwise Kimy appreciates good bug reports. 

In general people don't seem to understand that you have to cut loose old stuff from time to time to move a framework forward. DD got a lot better because Kimy has done that in the past and the changes with DD5 will have exactly the same effect. 

 

1 hour ago, Nymra said:

and now Shout like a Virgin

Which is why Kimy worked with VirginMarie to prevent issues from arising. Oh wait, that does not fit the narrative.

 

1 hour ago, Nymra said:

removal of Zap Keywords from DD gags for NO reason but to fight ZAP 8+ out of mod lists

Except the fact that there was no reason to maintain that dependency. Nothing preventing people from still having it in the modlist. You are just not forced to have zap any longer. 

Also it made sense with multiple "current" versions of ZAP with differing feature sets being around at that time. Luckily that one got sorted out. 

 

1 hour ago, Nymra said:

No.

Again - if you got evidence of the contrary - just send Kimy a bug report. That is what would actually help in that case. 

Edit: Damn, ninja'd by Kimy.

One more about the POP thing: That was in Cursed Loot. Which is a content mod, unlike Assets/Integration/(Expansion). It is not part of the framework. The framework itself never collided with POP. Ever. 

[OsmelMC]

@Eisenkocher @Nymra @Kimy and everyone else.

I'm checked few times the SexLab Tools on the past for errors and the conclusion about the issue with the list is always the same.

SexLab Tools don't have errors or compatibility issues on that part of the scripts. In fact the scripts in charge of the Animation list is so simple and basic that the only possible reason is SexLab.

 

For I see SexLab have code errors on at less two functions related.

1.    The ValidateActor function fail on detect when the player is controlling some scene where the player is not one of the actors and in this case outcome removing the SexLab Animation Faction from the player; that makes possible for others mods take the control of the player and become a real compatibility issue because a lot of Mods call for the ValidateActor without previously check the Animation Faction. By the way DD don't have this issue but get affected by the issue if another mod use the SexLab ValidateActor.

2.    The SexLab function to detect the current controlled scene get confused very often and detect the previous target actor scene instead of the scene currently controlled by the player. In this case I don't have the solution yet because I found one error on the scripts but apparently was not enough because still happen and my only temporary solution is use any of the alignment keys to force the creation of the alignment preset. Not sure why but that solve the issue with the SexLab Tools Animation list and with the "Animation Editor" of the SexLab MCM at less on my case. By the way both use the same function to detect the current controlled Scene.

3.    The ChangeActor function of the SexLab have his own errors and limitations that makes all the previous errors worse. But in this case I hope the solution I previously share here be usefully. By the way even if Kimy was not against allow Creatures, the ChangeActor function still don't allow it.

 

 

Finally the issue comment by @Nymra about see 3 times the same Animation on the same Animation list is only possible if the Animation is added 3 times to the same list, so @Kimy even if I don't see something like that on the DD scripts is probably good idea check it just to be sure.

 

[Nymra]

15 minutes ago, Kimy said:

@Nymra: This will be your only warning: Write one more troll posting like the above, and you will go on my /ignore list and/or I will report you to the moderators. I am tired of people who just can't take no for an answer when I reject one of their suggestions demands, and then throw around baseless accusations and slander at me.

You did not even read my suggestion up until now, even when I pointed on it with big arrows, so I cannot really add anything here at all.
Go on reading everything like you want, its just sad. You are beeing aggressive for no reason at all and got me to a point where it is impossible to hold back. 

 

I just shoot back at people the way they shoot at me. 

You can barely write a sentence without beeing very harsh and ignorant on just basic feedback that is neither personal nor aggressive. You just treat it like people are complete morons and have no right so speak up. And I will certainly not be censoring myself in any way. 

Its impossible to try to be reasonable heren, you always just read what you want and ignore the parts you would need. 

 

Good luck and all in the bubble... 

 

[Kimy]

I have read your suggestions. I just chose not to address them anymore, when I made clear a few times already that I am not going to implement any variant of it. I got better things to do than beating dead horses. I said a few pages back in this very thread (to another user) that I am no longer responding to any variant of the "The filter is bad" postings, so I am wondering why you think I'd react to it?

[Nymra]

12 minutes ago, Eisenkocher said:

No. Frameworks above content mods. Quite simple actually. 

 

No. Sexlab has last been updated in 2016. And that was just a maintenance update. The last big update before that was when? 2013? DD was in its infancy back then. Maybe 15 devices total? Sexlab is not really updated any longer. It does not support bound animations. At all. 

 

Sexlab has a lot of tags - anal, oral, vaginal, aggressive etc. But not "armbinder" or "yoke" or "elbowbinder" or "breastyoke". So no, it is not possible to just use the default Sexlab animation selector. Why do you think people went to great length to write a different one? For the fun of it? 

Why not just add the keywords then? This is an honest question to you. I mean I am willing to learn for sure
Adding keywords to JSON files of SLAL packs -> DD calling those? Not possible? 

 

12 minutes ago, Eisenkocher said:

Also the animation selector in the DD framework does already include all bound animations that fit with the devices. So if your issue is a lack of animations - don't use those devices. Or fix the lack of animations by creating more.
You are talking about consistency: All animations that fit are already included. What more do you want? Those that are not included don't work because they clip with the devices. That would not be consistent.

you only read the part of the problem that you understand and ignore everything else I write regarding this. Pointless to argue that way. 

 

12 minutes ago, Eisenkocher said:

Yes. Captured dreams got pulled because the author was unhappy about the state it was in and unable to fix it due to health issues - it was very heavily bugged. I never managed a playthrough of it without having to use the console or the MCM to fix bugs, at least not after the very early days. 
It got pulled around the time where DD4 broke existing armbinders, but there was even a patch for it from someone in the support thread. I believe. Or I patched mine for myself, I don't remember. Because that was not a terribly hard thing to do. 

 

Prison Overhaul? The author did refuse to update to DD 4.0 for a long time. In the end he did update - probably spent way less time on the update than on fighting updating before. 
I don't think that that mess was handled well from all sides, but in the end we got a solution where you can use POP with DCUR and POP does not require one to stay on DCUR 3 and therefore miss out on other, newer mods. An ecosystem gets hurt a lot if one single mod refuses to update while all other mods do update. 

I think this is one narrative and there are others. 
 

14 minutes ago, Eisenkocher said:

Guards are finnicky and a lot of mods alter them - mine work fine with DCUR installed. Maybe check what else in your loadorder might alter them? Otherwise Kimy appreciates good bug reports. 

I reported the bug and got ignored, I even made A HUGE thread with in detail descriptions of what was happening. Kimy never answered it at all. 

Bugged Guards with DCUR installed.
No Bugged guards with DCUR uninstalled. Nothing else changed. So what now? 

I dont say I cant be wrong, but at least people could try to tell that to me in a friendly way. 
Or like... at all.
 

 

14 minutes ago, Eisenkocher said:

In general people don't seem to understand that you have to cut loose old stuff from time to time to move a framework forward. DD got a lot better because Kimy has done that in the past and the changes with DD5 will have exactly the same effect. 

We will see. 

 

14 minutes ago, Eisenkocher said:

 

Which is why Kimy worked with VirginMarie to prevent issues from arising. Oh wait, that does not fit the narrative.

It does. 

 

[Nymra]

2 minutes ago, Kimy said:

I have read your suggestions. I just chose not to address them anymore, when I made clear a few times already that I am not going to implement any variant of it. I got better things to do than beating dead horses. I said a few pages back in this very thread (to another user) that I am no longer responding to any variant of the "The filter is bad" postings, so I am wondering why you think I'd react to it?

I did not make ONE post saying the filter is bad. 
I tried to make that clear several times. 

I provided detailed report what "problems" I see with the filter and how it could be improved. 
Something has a Problem means something is bad? No. 
Something has room for improvement equals Something is bad? No. 

I even apologized for missunderstandings on my side. Also ignored. I mean you dont want to beat dead horses and still beat them in the same post?! 

[Nymra]

I mean whatever, I tried, me and my view and suggestions are not compatible with DD style of development, ok, I can live with that. 

Kimy, thx for working on DD5, I m still eager to see its final form. Cheers.
 

[Code Serpent]

8 hours ago, Zaflis said:

I don't know what you mean by that. DD is already using many internal properties, for example to track your expertise in various devices. You can see them in your active effects too and you get notifications in top left.

 

But primarily my point was that the current DL minigame might be ignoring the device difficulty properties that modders set. Struggle or cutting chances at least. They need to be taken into account when counting how fast the struggle-bar moves. There are easy and hard devices.

The minigame as it is currently implemented in DL should take the device difficulty into account. It should be impossible to struggle out of devices with struggle chances set to 0, same with lockpicking and cutting. It's should also be impossible to remove quest or non-generic devices. If you've found a situation where that isn't the case, please let me know in the DL thread.

[Eisenkocher]

3 minutes ago, Nymra said:

Why not just add the keywords then?

Because contrary to common belief there is copyright on a mod. And I don't believe that Kimy has the rights to just modify the scripts of Sexlab and package them with her mod. The modpage of Sexlab would suggest otherwise. 

 

Everything else would require DD to still have its own animation filter. Just with people being required to install two more mods to get DD working. That would not be an improvement as it would just add complexity and a source of errors for no gain. Just think how many people struggle with building bodyslide. 

6 minutes ago, Nymra said:

but at least people could try to tell that to me in a friendly way. 

I appreciate that effort. Maybe it helps if I tell you that I have Survival and DCUR in my modlist. Both alter guard dialogue. Also I got DD Lore and SLUTS in there - those two also alter it. And my guards are working as I would expect them to - one function from SLUTS is not working because it gets overwritten, but that part is expected behavior and I don't care about it. 

From what you are describing your issues are primarily with POP scenes. I would look there. Would not be the first bug POP produces - I threw it out of my loadorder for that reason. 

Also - besides that - this whole thing has nothing to do with the framework. And this thread is about the framework. 

[Kimy]

47 minutes ago, Nymra said:

Why not just add the keywords then? This is an honest question to you. I mean I am willing to learn for sure
Adding keywords to JSON files of SLAL packs -> DD calling those? Not possible? 

 

I picked the above as an example to show you why I might react to you a bit harsher than most. Thing is that I answered this exact question over, and over, and over already. Last time I explained why DD handles bound animations the way it does and why registering these animations to SLAL is a super-stupid thing to do, was only a few days ago, in this very thread. Do you really think I love answering the same questions over and over and over again? Because I don't. It should be minimal courtesy to at least read the last few pages of a thread and/or use the search function to make sure not to put unnecessary burden on the thread-owner or other users by asking redundant questions all the time.

 

The same way could be said for you popping in and starting a huge fuss about the filter, when we had a HUGE debate on the filter in THIS thread just a handful of pages before you chimed in. You quite obviously never read them, probably because it's preferable to waste my time rather than spending a few mins looking through a thread.

 

Quote

I reported the bug and got ignored, I even made A HUGE thread with in detail descriptions of what was happening. Kimy never answered it at all. 

 

If I totally ignore bug reports (and I admit that it occasionally happens), that's not ill-will on my part. Chances are really that I overlooked it, or couldn't reproduce it. As you might have noticed, my threads are quite busy. The guard issue IS something I am aware of, however it seems to be a problem for some users and not at all for others, including myself. I can't fix what I cannot reproduce. The workaround (not skipping through the dialogue) seems to solve the problem for most.

 

EDIT: If you post bug reports in any other thread than mine, chances are close to 100% that I will not see it. I don't read threads on LL other than my own support threads and mods that really interest me.

[Rogwar002]

2 hours ago, Kimy said:

When? No hard promises, but I plan to release it shortly after DD5, yes.

[Nymra]

14 minutes ago, Kimy said:

 

f I totally ignore bug reports (and I admit that it occasionally happens), that's not ill-will on my part. Chances are really that I overlooked it, or couldn't reproduce it. As you might have noticed, my threads are quite busy. The guard issue IS something I am aware of, however it seems to be a problem for some users and not at all for others, including myself. I can't fix what I cannot reproduce. The workaround (not skipping through the dialogue) seems to solve the problem for most.

 

EDIT: If you post bug reports in any other thread than mine, chances are close to 100% that I will not see it. I don't read threads on LL other than my own support threads and mods that really interest me.

  
Just this one last thing:

- the problem starts way before the guard dialogue. 
- I tagged you. The problem was also connected between several mods and I did not want to blame it on one mod. I was just hoping that the mods could increase compability with each other. 

I will not push this any further here or anywhere else before not testing it with DD5 and DCUR 9, then I can come back with a bug report soon enough. 

 

23 minutes ago, Eisenkocher said:

From what you are describing your issues are primarily with POP scenes. I would look there. Would not be the first bug POP produces - I threw it out of my loadorder for that reason. 

 

The problem lies not with POP ?
Since I am using POP for years and it never broke the guards in the way it seems to happen with DCUR. 
Aside of that:
Since DD5 and DCUR 9 was announced I dropped the issue and will test it with the new versions first and then come back, no problem.

You should try POP again, really very nice mod and with really a lot of customization options for Devices. 
My ultimate goal is still having POP and Dagonar next to each other with 50% chance of going to either of them. 

 

[Kimy]

@Nymra I don't read threads other than mine even if you tag me. It's really one of my strategies to remain sane and not spend 10 hours a day reading forum topics. I get tagged like...a LOT, so there is that.

 

Feel free to test it with DCL9 once it's out, and report the issue once more if it persists. Put it in the DCL thread, though!