Devious Devices Framework Development/Beta

[F0xii]

Just a question in general, but would it be possible to add something like being able to link cuffs together for the final v5 release?

As an example: Linking Arm Cuffs would tie your arms behind your back (kind of like the linked Rubber Gloves maybe)

Linking Leg Cuffs maybe would make the Player perform animations similar to the Hobble Dress animation.

Honestly, it's just something I'd really like to see cuz I'd like to have more Armbinder-like alternatives

[qawsedrftg765]

I see a lot of people talking about changing the escape mechanics default with DD and I thought I would chime in with my 2 cents as to why I think that would be a bad idea for Kimy to implement with this mod. DD, though a massive 2+GB monster with 100s of items and 10,000 lines of code does a few things for the user that are obvious (not so much talking about the calls that people such as fellow modders would make)

1. Add devices to the game
2. create a 'locking' method in the game and the option to break those locks

3. offer keys to use on functional locks

aside from that the mod is pretty straight forward for the users. Mods like Devious lore, SLAV, DCL and so very many more add to this and I think restoring the good old "Devious Skyrim" Thread is the place to put mods that expand and enhance the DD playthough, I think I might have a crack at it myself. But bloating the already massive framework would just add more development time and create more possible issues for modders that are working on the framework.

EDIT: I keep my word:

 

[Nymra]

30 minutes ago, Richard1234 said:

Maybe I’m missing the point here...

 

yes you missed it. 

30 minutes ago, Richard1234 said:

but what’s the problem with the DD filter? From your usage of DDs:

- Yoke/armbinder: DD filter steps in and selects proper animation, just like you want.

this is not the point.

 

30 minutes ago, Richard1234 said:

So... what’s the problem?

  the problem is, that it is almost impossible to modify the dozens of DD related mods to prevent them from equiping this item or that. 
I tried... and failed. Some mods I had to drop because of that. Or just had no time to modify the scripts/ESP. 

I basically would like to control:

 

1. Which DD is equiped in my PC at all. DD as a framework would be PERFECT if it would allow me to prohibit certain DDs from beeing equiped EVER.
This is like the Sexlab Animation Toggle, just something that makes kinky Skyrim work at all. 

From what I remember Kimy did not agree with that, but I could be wrong. 
It would make DD framework a perfect mod for I think alot of users because it would allow them to use more mods and still "customize" their DD experience perfectly.

 

2. As stated below the filter is just On/Off which is sad. A more detailed filter (for each type of Device) would increase the aforementioned user experience even more. 
Best example is Plug/Chastity Play. If I could prevent chastity items from beeing used without me having to modify a dozen mods -> perfect

If I could control that I am still gettting plugs (which I like) but the plugs wont lead to filtered Sex animations -> perfect.

That is the kind of customizeability I am talking about. 
I admit I was just afraid that the filter would be gone for good, always making DDs restrict animations. If this information is not entirely correct at least from the user side of things (mod authors might be an entirely different topic) then I am apoligizing for any confusion

 

25 minutes ago, DeWired said:

Well. I think this is misunderstanding on your side. Filter is always on now, yes, but it doesn't mean it would always result in same set of animations. There is a switch "Enable bound animations" - when it's on, filter would replace original animation with compatible bound animation. If switch is off - filter would hide restraints for the time of animation. Just use this if you like variety.

 

Fair enough  
This sounds like the old filter version still in place, just with the addition of now hiding DDs temporarily. If this is not resulting in any manipulation of animations used I dont see a problem user side here. 

But there still seems to be a problem when it comes to compatibility with other mods, but that part is beyond my understanding sadly. 
These things seem to be happening in the background and I cannot really check for those

 

Then my point still stands that I would love to see a more elaborate filter that allows me to select for which DDs to use the filter and for which to use.

 

Like "If Yoke -> Enable Bound Animations" 

"If Armbinder -> Disable Bound Animations" 

"If Plug -> dont use filter" and so on. 
This would REALLY be a major improvement for DD5 in my eyes at least. 

Always bothered me that I had to either drop vast portions of DD content just because I like 25% of it and 75% not
 

25 minutes ago, DeWired said:

And honestly - all this talk about switch just solidifies idea that dropping it was a right choice - when it was there, nobody understood what it did.

Honestly, this line seems like you did not read my post in full. 
I dont know what could be missunderstood about the filters in DD4. 

I was just informed the filter is not existing anymore and this information was now updated which at least gives me hope

 

[Richard1234]

Hmm, let me try to rephrase your problem then. You want to have a great variety in sex animations and there are not enough bound animations to satisfy the ‘great variety’ condition. If I understand you correctly there are 3 ways to solve the problem:

1. Don’t trigger bound animations at all. This won’t work in DD5, because the filter is out, and rightfully so. Having arms pop out of armbinder breaks immersion.

2. Don’t equip armbinder by careful selection of mods and mod settings.

3. Don’t equip armbinder by restricting it on a global level.
I have no modding experience, but to me this last solution of letting the framework decide which DDs can be equipped sounds like a bad idea. I’m imagining a carefully crafted story in which the player gets bound in an armbinder and has to escape. The entire quest is built around the player being bound in an armbinder, from quest conditions, status all the way to dialogue. Denying a mod to equip an armbinder will render the mod unplayable.

 

Maybe I’m again missing the point?

 

As far as I can tell there are 3 solutions to your problem:

1. Add more bound animations. Kimy repeatedly stated that she’d love to have access to more animations.

2. Don’t use mods that equip armbinders or other devices that can trigger the filter.

3. Edit all armbinders, plugs, etc to your liking, using the new ... hmm.. keywords? that Kimy added to solve SLAV use cases.

[Nymra]

33 minutes ago, Richard1234 said:

Hmm, let me try to rephrase your problem then. You want to have a great variety in sex animations and there are not enough bound animations to satisfy the ‘great variety’ condition. If I understand you correctly there are 3 ways to solve the problem:

1. Don’t trigger bound animations at all. This won’t work in DD5, because the filter is out, and rightfully so. Having arms pop out of armbinder breaks immersion.

As stated above, I dont see this as a working solution. Its not only about armbinders. From what I remember the filter even triggers when u just have slave boots or arm cuffs. 
 

Quote

2. Don’t equip armbinder by careful selection of mods and mod settings.

As I described, this is an almost impossible goal to achieve. 

 

Quote

3. Don’t equip armbinder by restricting it on a global level.
I have no modding experience, but to me this last solution of letting the framework decide which DDs can be equipped sounds like a bad idea. I’m imagining a carefully crafted story in which the player gets bound in an armbinder and has to escape. The entire quest is built around the player being bound in an armbinder, from quest conditions, status all the way to dialogue. Denying a mod to equip an armbinder will render the mod unplayable.

From what I see there are not really many mods left that do such a thing. 
Slaverun is essentialy already broken. I think it does not even equip/remove the correct DDs anymore with the current DD 4.3, nor does its MCM work anymore. 
Island of Mara... does not really care/broken. 
Captured Dreams.... was there something. Ever?
Shout like a Virgin is already present with Marie in the thread with I think entirely different set of problems. 
Thief? Maybe I guess? 

Which story mod is left then? I mean I really dont recall a mod that breaks when there is not this or that DD equiped. (but that does not mean they dont exist, I just ask for examples). 

But I mean even this could be solved:

MCM Example for JUST armbinders now:

 

- Equip Armbinder Yes/No/Ask

with "ask" I can have a choice and make that choice easily. Would prevent me from having to stop the game and cheat myself out of DDs. 

See, I mean its always possible to get out of DDs, its just tiresome. So why not install an integrated system that makes life easier for all DD users. 
It could be part of a system like "hardcore" mode or "custom" mode so people can see what they do because the description is giving it away. 

I mean its not like you dont have a point, I just think it can still be easily solved to prevent from the problem you mentioned to happen. 
 

Quote

 

Maybe I’m again missing the point?

 

As far as I can tell there are 3 solutions to your problem:

1. Add more bound animations. Kimy repeatedly stated that she’d love to have access to more animations.

I try to learn making anims, but no promises I ll be good
I also dont like the idea of animations being hard coded into a mod. If DD would be SLAL friendly, maybe this is a different story. 

Also would there be creature support for such animations? 

I dont exactly know how DD works with that, but if it would have SLAL keyword support it would be also a BIG improvement for us. 
I could for example edit SLAL animation keywords to control animations used by DD. 

This would also make DD compatible with Sexlab Tools (which at least DD 4.X is not. Will DD 5 allow me to swap between different Yoke animation via Sexlab Tools menu?) (with the filter enabled) 

 

Quote

2. Don’t use mods that equip armbinders or other devices that can trigger the filter.

As I wrote above, this is very time consuming (and impossible for a regular user) and with some mods can only be achieved by script changes. 

 

Quote

3. Edit all armbinders, plugs, etc to your liking, using the new ... hmm.. keywords? that Kimy added to solve SLAV use cases.

Something to explore for sure, I will keep that in mind. 

[devil10188]

7 minutes ago, Nymra said:

As stated above, I dont see this as a working solution. Its not only about armbinders. From what I remember the filter even triggers when u just have slave boots or arm cuffs. 

And then does essentially nothing, because it doesn't need to. There are plenty of vanilla animations that work with slave boots and arm cuffs.
You seem to be under the impression the filter ALWAYS restricts animations when it activates.
Don't know where you got that idea.

As for the rest of your issues, the Enable Bound animations toggle already does what you want, albeit with apparently more need to manually toggle than you'd prefer.

The filter can't choose bound animations to use if you have that option turned off - which means the filter isn't actually doing anything in these scenarios, whether it is "on" or not.
There just isn't a need for a toggle for the filter. The filter doesn't work the way you think. 

I don't know what else to give you, at this point. I mean, by definition, filtering literally anything does nothing by itself - you have to CHOOSE to do something with the filtered results. 
You can filter water all you want, it won't have any effect on anything whatsoever unless you then take the additional step and use the filtered water - this is how the DD filter works too.

It sounds to me like you have problems with how mod authors use the filter, not the filter itself - probably an issue you should take up with them

[Richard1234]

27 minutes ago, Nymra said:

From what I see there are not really many mods left that do such a thing. 

Mods that equip specific restraints during a quest: Deviously cursed loot, Laura’s bondage shop, devious carriages. Probably there are more.

[Nymra]

1 hour ago, devil10188 said:

And then does essentially nothing, because it doesn't need to. There are plenty of vanilla animations that work with slave boots and arm cuffs.
You seem to be under the impression the filter ALWAYS restricts animations when it activates.
Don't know where you got that idea.

I played with the DD filters of for I think 2 years now, so my experiences with it is way back and my info might not be 100% accurate anymore.
I just remember that:

- DD replaced all SL animations with its own
- Sexlab Tools did not work with it
- Animations were quite limited
- Animations repeated ALOT (even when there were 12 to choose from, DD tended to use 3x the same in a row) 
- no group animations 

you might be correct with how often the filter triggers. I will hop in and make some more checks myself in DD 4.3 and DD 5 for sure. 

 

1 hour ago, devil10188 said:

 

As for the rest of your issues, the Enable Bound animations toggle already does what you want, albeit with apparently more need to manually toggle than you'd prefer.

The filter can't choose bound animations to use if you have that option turned off - which means the filter isn't actually doing anything in these scenarios, whether it is "on" or not.
There just isn't a need for a toggle for the filter. The filter doesn't work the way you think. 

I don't know what else to give you, at this point. I mean, by definition, filtering literally anything does nothing by itself - you have to CHOOSE to do something with the filtered results. 
You can filter water all you want, it won't have any effect on anything whatsoever unless you then take the additional step and use the filtered water - this is how the DD filter works too.

This seems to be not relevant, dunno what you want to tell me here. 

 

1 hour ago, devil10188 said:

It sounds to me like you have problems with how mod authors use the filter, not the filter itself - probably an issue you should take up with them

No. 

I also described in detail how I think the filter could be improved for DD 5, while taking into consideration how it was explained to me how it works. Maybe you did not read or did not understand that part. 

[Nymra]

1 hour ago, Richard1234 said:

Mods that equip specific restraints during a quest: Deviously cursed loot, Laura’s bondage shop, devious carriages. Probably there are more.

Devious Carriages is not a quest mod. 
and you can toggle the devices it equips in its MCM. 

Lauras Bondage Shop: cool! Almost forgot this one. It got lost on my "to try" list. Definalty have to get around playing its quests.

DCL can also manage most Devices. But it is a good example.
I really like for example the Cursed Collar Quest (I hope I recall it right. you are forced naked to walk through skyirm finding chests and get stuff equiped bit by bit).
Sadly it is not possible to choose the outfit that gets equiped (the Device toggles in the DCL MCM do not work for the quests). (funny example btw since DCL has a toggle for which devices to find in Cursed Chests but not in Cursed Quests ? ) 
So at some point I had to start cheating to remove or replace the items (I just could not stand walking hours through Skyrim with chastitiy items seeing 100x the same remaining single animation that the filter still allowed, while with filter off of course the PC was fucked through a chastity belt).  I mean who cares what the text says, its just one text box and the "story" is quite clear. What I want to say: I think what is written in textboxes should have alot less priority than what you see on your screen. 

Its a very subjective thing to consider when something is broken or not I admit, but I feel like we should also try to respect that in both directions, no?

Dont get me wrong, I see the overall concept and appreciate it. For people who are 100% into that stuff this is a very perfect scenario and quest. 
But there are also people who just only like 25% or 50% of the DD content and they have only this choice: ALL or NOTHING. This is just not ideal I think and leads to this:

- People who love DD like alot
- People who despice DD like alot (mostly because they are forced to have it and cannot control it). 

This split in the community, well, it could be easily solved if DD was more modular when it comes to content control. That is all I m saying. 
I am using ZAP 8+ most of the time and roleplay "beeing bound" because that is a better solituon than beeing forced to have DD 100% forced on me. 
With a modular DD5 I would instantly swap. That is not just my 5 cents but something that I very often get told in PM or read in Mod Support Threads. 
 

[Kimy]

6 hours ago, Nymra said:

Just on a sidenote: I am really looking forward to DD 5 and its content, but the filter alone would be a big no-no for using it sadly and sticking with DD 4.X (hoping that at least other mods with DD as dependency can maintain backwards compatibility with DD 4. 

 

For DCL, I can guarantee you that I will do no such thing. DCL9 will require DD5. From Day 1. I will absolutely not waste my time with coding fallbacks for half of DCL's features because some people insist on keeping around outdated versions of DD, or other mods. I already changed hundreds of lines of code in DCL to make it take advantage of DD5's many improvements over DD4. Do you really think I want to put it even MORE work to tell my mod NOT to use them, and make DCL a worse mod than it could be? Just because some people happen to dislike me removing ONE MCM toggle in DD that formerly allowed them to make DD behave in a nonsensical way? That's ridiculous!

 

Quite honestly, it's not DD's purpose to force content mods built on it to use or not to use certain types of devices. However, it IS DD's purpose to make devices used by content mods behave as realistically as they can be, and the filter is there to do just that. In short, if you don't like chastity play, don't use mods that equip such items on you. Easy as that. But if you do, don't complain that these items do what they're supposed to do. If you want choice, ask the CONTENT MOD creators to provide them. There is a reason why I put tons of toggles in DCL and not in DD. DD doesn't dictate content mods what devices they can use.

 

Not sure if you remember, but I went through the exact same thing when I released DD4. People were all over me about a few things I changed, that were not quite like DD3. Baseline simply is that people hate change. Any change. So they fight it. You didn't bring up a single point in your posting I agree with, honestly. And forgive me for not addressing them - I don't like beating dead horses, and I have addressed your points in response to various posters before you already. I also don't really think you even tried the revised filter, because many of your points clearly indicate that you don't really understand what it now does, and how it's a bit different from DD4, and even that the option to disable bound animations still remains, which alone addresses about half of the points you raised.

But it's no longer the way you have been using DD4, so it must be bad. I get that. It doesn't mean I will cater to it. It has always been my policy never to maintain or support older versions of my mod, or any mod my mods rely on.

[Nymra]

11 minutes ago, Kimy said:

For DCL, I can guarantee you that I will do no such thing. DCL9 will require DD5. From Day 1. I will absolutely not waste my time with coding fallbacks for half of DCL's features because some people insist on keeping around outdated versions of DD, or other mods. I already changed hundreds of lines of code in DCL to make it take advantage of DD5's many improvements over DD4. Do you really think I want to put it even MORE work to tell my mod NOT to use them, and make DCL a worse mod than it could be? Just because some people happen to dislike me removing ONE MCM toggle in DD that formerly allowed them to make DD behave in a nonsensical way? Quite honestly, it's not DD's purpose to force content mods built on it to use or not to use certain types of devices. However, it IS DD's purpose to make devices used by content mods behave as realistically as they can be, and the filter is there to do just that. In short, if you don't like chastity play, don't use mods that equip such items on you. Easy as that. But if you do, don't complain that these items do what they're supposed to do.

 

Not sure if you remember, but I went through the exact same thing when I released DD4. People were all over me about a few things I changed, that were not quite like DD3. Baseline simply is that people hate change. Any change. So they fight it. You didn't bring up a single point in your posting I agree with, honestly. And forgive me for not addressing them - I don't like beating dead horses, and I have addressed your points in response to various posters before you already. I also don't really think you even tried the revised filter, because many of your points clearly indicate that you don't really understand what it now does, and how it's a bit different from DD4, and even that the option to disable bound animations still remains, which alone addresses about half of the points you raised.

But it's no longer the way you have been using DD4, so it must be bad. I get that. It doesn't mean I will cater to it. It has always been my policy never to maintain or support older versions of my mod, or any mod my mods rely on.

You clearly want to read my posts with as much negative intent as possible. 
I never wrote that DD4 is bad. 
I just pointed out that a ON or OFF choice for such a big framework is very hard to deal with for quite a big part of the community. 

But I also dont feel like repeating this now for a third time in a new post. 

Luckily there is a workaround when the DD5 filter works as described, so I can live with that (Sexlab Utility Plus makes all DD animations available in SLAL) but I still think you missunderstood my feedback and general intention of it. 

I am really tired of always beeing accused to just DONT LIKE DD. I Would not be here if that would be the case. Both DD and DCL have VERY GOOD content, but just lack, as I described now several times, some toggles/MCM Options to make the experience more worthwhile for a bigger playerbase.

Like with Dagonar Prison in the current non BETA Version where there was no toggle for the DD Filter. With just this option Dagonar would be such a cool option for me, but with the filter its just not. Does this mean Dagonar is a BAD feature? No. If you want to read this, it is your fault not mine and just not fair towards me and other users. 
You cannot just see black and white. 

I just wanted to ask for an option to allow me to enjoy the 95% absolutly great content of DD and DCL without having to constantly cheat myself out of the like 5% items that I dont want to see in my game or fight a filter that restricts which animations I see. So if you want it clearly: your mod is 95% good and I really want it very much, so do others. But 5% is bad, at least for a part of the users. But it is that 5% that always get in our way to enjoy the rest 95%. Better to understand now? 
(because we just cannot deactivate that 5% of the content but we have to deactivate 50% of it, cutting ourselves from more content than we would wish). 
 

[Kimy]

For somebody accusing me not to have read your post, you put remarkably little effort into reading mine. I never said that you wrote that DD4 is bad. Just that I believe you're fighting change for the sake of fighting change.

 

You obviously also didn't see how I very clearly said that its NOT DD's place to interfere with what content mods do. I am never, NEVER EVER going to provide features that tell a content mod what devices it can or cannot equip. DD is a framework that helps building content mods on it. The only thing it DOES do is providing devices and mechanics to implement realistic behaving devices. DD never equips a single device on you, ever. If you dislike what your character is wearing, talk to the creator of the mod that equipped them on you! Or stop using that mod. You're upset that I react the way I do to what's akin to saying "I like 95% of the pages of this book, but hate the other 5%, so I want you to rip them out and replace them with stuff I actually agree with!". Can't you see how ridiculous that is, when I didn't even write that book, but just provided the typewriter?

 

Again, and I shall put it in ALL CAPS now, because I am tried of saying the same thing for years now: IF YOU WANT OPTIONS FOR A MOD, TALK TO THE PERSON WHO WROTE THE MOD, NOT THE ONE WHO WROTE THE FRAMEWORK!!!!!

 

 

[LazyBoot]

Just now, Kimy said:

its NOT DD's place to interfere with what content mods do. I am never, NEVER EVER going to provide features that tell a content mod what devices it can or cannot equip.

if there's one thing that's almost certain to break backwards compatibility, it's a feature like such a framework level toggle.

[Kimy]

5 minutes ago, LazyBoot said:

if there's one thing that's almost certain to break backwards compatibility, it's a feature like such a framework level toggle.

Seriously. Just imagine for a second how many quests in how many mods I'd break if I made DD able to disable e.g. chastity items for ALL installed mods. In DCL alone, there would be at least 10 quests that would immediately break, because they try to equip these items and expect them to be actually equipped.

 

*shakes head*

[zarantha]

@Kimy  just spent the last week or so working and reworking the rope stuff in bodyslide trying to figure out why it wouldn't resize to the low weight. found out today that all except one of the uncolored (brown) ropes don't have weight sliders enabled. I haven't checked anything other than the brown and white ropes yet.

 

I added the changes to the override plugin I'm using to track the calves/forearms stuff.  Attached what I have so far, since you might be closer to 'done' than i am.

Still not finished yet, but maybe now I can make better progress now that I'm not going crazy with why the ropes weren't working as expected.

 

Hopefully, this is readable for you - plugin header is 44, but all the records are form 43 (LE)

DD - calves and forearms patch.esp

[Kimy]

33 minutes ago, zarantha said:

@Kimy  just spent the last week or so working and reworking the rope stuff in bodyslide trying to figure out why it wouldn't resize to the low weight. found out today that all except one of the uncolored (brown) ropes don't have weight sliders enabled. I haven't checked anything other than the brown and white ropes yet.

 

I added the changes to the override plugin I'm using to track the calves/forearms stuff.  Attached what I have so far, since you might be closer to 'done' than i am.

Still not finished yet, but maybe now I can make better progress now that I'm not going crazy with why the ropes weren't working as expected.

 

Hopefully, this is readable for you - plugin header is 44, but all the records are form 43 (LE)

DD - calves and forearms patch.esp 24.73 kB · 0 downloads

I've never tried to merge a SE ESP into a LE one. No clue if that works. I will try!

 

Thank you!

[Kimy]

13 hours ago, Code Serpent said:

@Kimy

 

I'm curious if you've tried the escape minigame I made in Devious Lore, and if you'd be interested in me implementing a version of it for the framework? Normally, I'd pm you this, but I thought it was worth posting it here to allow others to chime in on which escape mechanics they like.

I am afraid that I didn't try your minigame yet. How does it work? Generally, I do not like button-masher QTE-style things. Which is polite for "I hate them with a passion". Chances of THAT going into DD are a very good approximation to zero.

 

Also, I am a bit old-fashioned in terms of roleplaying games being about what your -character- can do, not about what -you- can do. The problem with most (all?) such minigames is that they test player-skill, not character skill. But this is about whether or not your character can manage to escape her bindings, not you. If a device has a e.g. 50% escape chance defined, what this device is meant to do is make the character fail half of her escape attempts (before applying her skill modifiers, which DD does). The escape chance represents how hard this device is to escape from, for your character! Now, if we let the player do a minigame depending on player-skill instead, the player might practice that minigame enough to succeed at close to 100% of all attempts, which would make device difficulty essentially meaningless.

 

That's the basic problem with minigame vs. RNG. It totally changes the balance and meaning of the escape system. In short, I am not sure about it.

[Code Serpent]

47 minutes ago, Kimy said:

I am afraid that I didn't try your minigame yet. How does it work? Generally, I do not like button-masher QTE-style things. Which is polite for "I hate them with a passion". Chances of THAT going into DD are a very good approximation to zero.

Ok, you might think it's like a QTE, I don't think it is, so I'll just explain it here.

 

Once the escape game starts, your character's stamina starts to drain at a certain rate. The goal is to keep her stamina from reaching zero before she escapes the device. The time it takes to escape from a device depends on the global and device difficulty multipliers. Holding down one of the four movement keys (WASD) reduces the stamina drain, but you won't know which key you need to press, and the key you need to hold down changes periodically. So, the minigame requires you to try to find the right movement key to hold to reduce the stamina drain to keep your character from exhausting herself. Also, if you try to hold down more than one key at a time, stamina drains faster. So, button mashing in this minigame will do nothing but make your character exhausted faster and fail the struggle attempt, and there is no popup and timer yelling "PUSH A". So, I don't think it's a QTE.

47 minutes ago, Kimy said:

Also, I am a bit old-fashioned in terms of roleplaying games being about what your -character- can do, not about what -you- can do. The problem with most (all?) such minigames is that they test player-skill, not character skill.

I prefer a balance between player and character skill myself (I absolutely hate straight diceroll mechanics, which is why I almost never use Pickpocketing) but I think this minigame leans more towards character skill.

 

Yes, the player is asked to try to struggle with the WASD keys to emulate struggling with the character's bonds, but the character's stamina is much more important. In fact, you could just not press a button, and let the character struggle on her own and see if she makes it out. We could also add an option to determine how involved the player can be in the minigame, ie how much holding down the correct movement key alleviates the stamina drain, either on the global level or on the device level. So, we can define a threshold so that a device can only be escaped from if the character has a certain amount of stamina, no matter how good the player is at the minigame.

 

Also, I want to make it clear that I'm not asking you to include this in version 5.0, or even this version cycle. As others have pointed out the version of the minigame I've implemented in Devious Lore can be cheesed very easily, so moving it over to the framework level would require some balancing. So, it should probably be included in version 6.0, if at all, in order to make use of the beta phase.

[Kimy]

15 minutes ago, Code Serpent said:

Ok, you might think it's like a QTE, I don't think it is, so I'll just explain it here.

Agreed. This is certainly no button masher.

 

15 minutes ago, Code Serpent said:

Also, I want to make it clear that I'm not asking you to include this in version 5.0, or even this version cycle. As others have pointed out the version of the minigame I've implemented in Devious Lore can be cheesed very easily, so moving it over to the framework level would require some balancing. So, it should probably be included in version 6.0, if at all, in order to make use of the beta phase.

I can see something based on this going into DD as an optional feature that can be allowed or disallowed on the device level by the device designer. But yes, not for DD5.

 

[OsmelMC]

1 hour ago, Kimy said:

I've never tried to merge a SE ESP into a LE one. No clue if that works. I will try!

SE ESP on LE have none issue

LE ESP on SE is another story.

[Code Serpent]

4 minutes ago, Kimy said:

I can see something based on this going into DD as an optional feature that can be allowed or disallowed on the device level by the device designer. But yes, not for DD5.

Awesome! I'll write up some test scripts for you to look at once DD5 is out of beta.

[ahboojiga123]

idea:

is it possible to add a gag alignment system similar to the high heels system

say if a wear a gag and it didn't quite align, then i can go into mcm and change slider for mouth_open or gag_height to align them

(yes I'm thinking of the high heels system here)

is this possible?

 

my current character always has ring gag go below her lower lip and it's kinda bugging me

[Richard1234]

29 minutes ago, ahboojiga123 said:

idea:

is it possible to add a gag alignment system similar to the high heels system

say if a wear a gag and it didn't quite align, then i can go into mcm and change slider for mouth_open or gag_height to align them

(yes I'm thinking of the high heels system here)

is this possible?

 

my current character always has ring gag go below her lower lip and it's kinda bugging me

There is a gag scale mod out there, but if i remember correctly that only works for ballgags. If there’s no room for it in the DD framework, then you could try asking the author of that mod to also support ring gags?

[indolu]

This may have been answered before but will a new save be required for DD5, and if so when do you expect DD5 to officially release? I'm thinking about waiting until the release to start my new game.

[Nymra]

8 hours ago, Kimy said:

For somebody accusing me not to have read your post, you put remarkably little effort into reading mine. I never said that you wrote that DD4 is bad. Just that I believe you're fighting change for the sake of fighting change.

Erm. No. I am fighting change when I believe the change leads to a worse outcome, which was my impression. From what I learned it might even be an improvement from the earlier version and maybe also improve DCL experience for me. And again you try to pin something on me just for the sake of it. Why cant we have just a  normal discussion without personal attacks? 
I mean I apologize for the missunderstanding, really. Might be I just wrote alot, but that also just was an expression for how important DD is also for me. 
So yeah, sorry in that case. 

 

Quote

 

You obviously also didn't see how I very clearly said that its NOT DD's place to interfere with what content mods do. I am never, NEVER EVER going to provide features that tell a

content mod what devices it can or cannot equip.

But you do. DD has options that control DDs already. Bound combat, Device difficulty, Device hiding, the Scene filtering. Basically DD is also preventing DD compatible Creature content, which also forces the content mods to skip certain content because its not compatible or supported by DD. 
You are also in the position of telling basically 2/3 if not more of the mods on how to use DDs, which gives you quite a big influence over kinky Skyrim, topped only by Sexlab itself. 
That is a big responsibility I think. 
Please, I do not want to attack anybody here, I just try to describe how I feel DDs role is or has become. I dont know which mods you use urself or what threads you are browsing. DD is very present all over loverslab, even outside of its own threads. 

Quote

 

DD is a framework that helps building content mods on it. The only thing it DOES do is providing devices and mechanics to implement realistic behaving devices.

DD never equips a single device on you, ever. If you dislike what your character is wearing, talk to the creator of the mod that equipped them on you! Or stop using that mod.

You are aware that alot of mods on this site are no longer supported or developed? Not everything can be changed, even when the creator is still there. 
But I dont want to press the issue, I was bringing up the Devices thing just as an example and you instantly jumped on it again, totally ignoring my other suggestion regarding the filter.

Quote

You're upset that I react the way I do to what's akin to saying "I like 95% of the pages of this book, but hate the other 5%, so I want you to rip them out and replace them with stuff I actually agree with!". Can't you see how ridiculous that is, when I didn't even write that book, but just provided the typewriter?

I am not upset. I am not writing in Caps. I just try to give feedback and be as constructive as I can be. I see your points and I can agree. I mean I am in no position to demand anything, I can only try to provide feedback, my own user experience and make suggestions that you are of course free to ignore.

 

I also did not ask to rip anything out. You wanted to understand it like this, again in the most negative way as possible. I just said I love 95% of your book but you just blame me for not liking 5% of it. Is that fair? I basically just asked if it would be possible to have a toggle for the 5%.... to allow for me to enjoy the other 95% in full and without disturbance.  
See below, I explain in detail where it is "BOLD" text

Quote

Again, and I shall put it in ALL CAPS now, because I am tried of saying the same thing for years now: IF YOU WANT OPTIONS FOR A MOD, TALK TO THE PERSON WHO WROTE THE MOD, NOT THE ONE WHO WROTE THE FRAMEWORK!!!!!

I want Options for Devious Devices, which is your mod and you are the creator, so I am exactly where I have to be. 

This is the part you maybe missed:
Ignore the "prevent DDs to be equiped part" from above, this is unrelated to that and was also just brought up as example. We had the discussion earlier and I just wanted to explain the general problem. 

1. I primarily wanted to ask if it would be possible to make the filter to me more detailed, meaning adding options to it to enable the Bound Animations/Animations Filtering just for several devices instead of having to just shut ALL ON or ALL OFF. 

Like:
Enable Bound Animations for:
- Yoke yes/no
- Armbinder yes/no
- Plugs yes/no
- Belts yes/no

etc.
etc.

Meaning if I use "no" the filter will be not using bound animtions. From what I understand now (I was told by another user, sorry), that this would mean DD5 would remove the Devices and use a normal Sex animation.
If I use "yes" the filter will use a suitable bound animation and leave the DD equiped.
Meaning I could for example make DD5 remove armbinders and use normal animations, but use Bound Animations for Yokes. That is all. 

2. I think I brought this up before, but could you improve DD 5 compatibility with Sexlab tools (ignore me if this is already achived)
Meaning if DD uses its bound animations, that I can press "H" on Sexlab tools and chose another of the available bound animations instead.
Dunno why but in the past I often had the "problem" that I saw the same yoke animation 3x in a row, even with 12 animations available.