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HDT SMP for SSE?

blueballbob

By blueballbob,
in Skyrim: Special Edition

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codylowey

codylowey

Posted
Posted

I check the thread to catch up on SMP progress around once a month.  Boy does it look like this has been an eventful month.

 

So, someone please confirm if I've absorbed the two main things correctly - because I'm not sure if I have.

 

Thing 1:  The sole developer of HDT has announced he's lost interest in it and doesn't intend to develop it anymore, so the last version of HDT-SMP that he released was the actual final version.

  1a:  Skyrim SSE just got a runtime update for whatever purpose, so the final version of HDT-SMP will no longer work with up-to-date Skyrim SSE, now or in the future.

  1b:  The dev has decided not to release the source code for HDT-SMP, so nobody else can continue development or keep it compatible with newer SSE runtimes, meaning HDT physics for SSE is effectively dead for good.

 

Thing 2:  The creator/owner/rights-holder/whichever of both CBBE and UNP/UUNP, has decided he no longer wants his body mods' assets used by others to build improved physics-compatible custom bodies, so all such mods have been removed from LL.

  2a:  The only alternative now is to create a new, original, and dedicated physics body, which will not be compatible with Bodyslide, and thus probably not most available armor mods

  2b:  Such a body nevertheless was being developed, but Thing 1 probably throws the future of that project into doubt.

 

Have I gotten everything right?

3
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Tooneyman23

Tooneyman23

Posted
Posted
52 minutes ago, codylowey said:

I check the thread to catch up on SMP progress around once a month.  Boy does it look like this has been an eventful month.

 

So, someone please confirm if I've absorbed the two main things correctly - because I'm not sure if I have.

 

Thing 1:  The sole developer of HDT has announced he's lost interest in it and doesn't intend to develop it anymore, so the last version of HDT-SMP that he released was the actual final version.

  1a:  Skyrim SSE just got a runtime update for whatever purpose, so the final version of HDT-SMP will no longer work with up-to-date Skyrim SSE, now or in the future.

  1b:  The dev has decided not to release the source code for HDT-SMP, so nobody else can continue development or keep it compatible with newer SSE runtimes, meaning HDT physics for SSE is effectively dead for good.

 

Thing 2:  The creator/owner/rights-holder/whichever of both CBBE and UNP/UUNP, has decided he no longer wants his body mods' assets used by others to build improved physics-compatible custom bodies, so all such mods have been removed from LL.

  2a:  The only alternative now is to create a new, original, and dedicated physics body, which will not be compatible with Bodyslide, and thus probably not most available armor mods

  2b:  Such a body nevertheless was being developed, but Thing 1 probably throws the future of that project into doubt.

 

Have I gotten everything right?

Kind of... We don't actually know what's going on with HDT SMP. From what I've been reading it's either dead or hydrogen will eventually update it. Otherwise, the community will have to deal with CBP Physics and hope the author polygonhell will update it to work with collisions and hair at some point. As for UUNP and CBBE you are right. However, UNP is be developed by myself and a group of other modders to be allowed to have custom bodies since where going to keep the project open. 

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codylowey

codylowey

Posted
Posted
28 minutes ago, Tooneyman23 said:

As for UUNP and CBBE you are right. However, UNP is be developed by myself and a group of other modders to be allowed to have custom bodies since where going to keep the project open. 

Yes I just finished reading through your thread - that's excellent news!  I had a couple of questions about it, but I will ask them in that thread.

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Kalessin42

Kalessin42

Posted
Posted
15 minutes ago, GodWearsGucci said:

I think it's kinda messed up for modders to try and force people to only use one certain body unless someone makes a whole new one. They're starting to turn into mini EA members.

Well, it's their work, and they hold the copyright for it, so they're well within their rights to not give permission for others to alter it and distribute it (though they can't stop you from changing it just for yourself). And they're going to have fewer support issues if folks are using the body files that they've released rather than trying to use altered versions of them. So, I can understand if they don't want folks distributing altered versions of their work.

 

That being said, I'm honestly surprised by how much modders try to restrict what folks do with their mods. I would have expected more of a culture where you put stuff out there for folks to use and don't restrict what they can do with it (at least as long as they give you credit for your work and don't try to get you to fix problems caused by their changes), but it seems that a lot of modders want much tighter controls over what is done with their work - often only wanting folks to use it without allowing them to make any changes and distribute them. It's an attitude that's more like what I would have expected from folks selling their work than from folks doing stuff for fun and making it available for others out of the kindness of their hearts. But at least they are making some of this stuff available, even if they restrict it more than many of us would like. If they didn't, there wouldn't be much of a modding community. Even the best modders couldn't produce the full set of mods that many of us use by themselves - at least not within a sane timeframe.

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GodWearsGucci

GodWearsGucci

Posted
Posted
9 minutes ago, Kalessin42 said:

Well, it's their work, and they hold the copyright for it, so they're well within their rights to not give permission for others to alter it and distribute it (though they can't stop you from changing it just for yourself). And they're going to have fewer support issues if folks are using the body files that they've released rather than trying to use altered versions of them. So, I can understand if they don't want folks distributing altered versions of their work.

 

That being said, I'm honestly surprised by how much modders try to restrict what folks do with their mods. I would have expected more of a culture where you put stuff out there for folks to use and don't restrict what they can do with it (at least as long as they give you credit for your work and don't try to get you to fix problems caused by their changes), but it seems that a lot of modders want much tighter controls over what is done with their work - often only wanting folks to use it without allowing them to make any changes and distribute them. It's an attitude that's more like what I would have expected from folks selling their work than from folks doing stuff for fun and making it available for others out of the kindness of their hearts. But at least they are making some of this stuff available, even if they restrict it more than many of us would like. If they didn't, there wouldn't be much of a modding community. Even the best modders couldn't produce the full set of mods that many of us use by themselves - at least not within a sane timeframe.

Thing is, all these mods are free. The modding community would be 100x better if people shared their work and allowed to distribute it amongst each other. Lately a lot of new modders are becoming toxic and get pissed when someone trys to let them know about bugs or whatever and claim it isn't cause of their mods. That's just one of the things wrong with the modding community nowadays. Either way i alter mods for myself so it's not much of a big deal. But would be a lot easier if the modders were more lenient in that part. 

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elzee

elzee

Posted
Posted
10 hours ago, codylowey said:

I check the thread to catch up on SMP progress around once a month.  Boy does it look like this has been an eventful month.

 

So, someone please confirm if I've absorbed the two main things correctly - because I'm not sure if I have.

 

Thing 1:  The sole developer of HDT has announced he's lost interest in it and doesn't intend to develop it anymore, so the last version of HDT-SMP that he released was the actual final version.

  1a:  Skyrim SSE just got a runtime update for whatever purpose, so the final version of HDT-SMP will no longer work with up-to-date Skyrim SSE, now or in the future.

  1b:  The dev has decided not to release the source code for HDT-SMP, so nobody else can continue development or keep it compatible with newer SSE runtimes, meaning HDT physics for SSE is effectively dead for good.

 

Thing 2:  The creator/owner/rights-holder/whichever of both CBBE and UNP/UUNP, has decided he no longer wants his body mods' assets used by others to build improved physics-compatible custom bodies, so all such mods have been removed from LL.

  2a:  The only alternative now is to create a new, original, and dedicated physics body, which will not be compatible with Bodyslide, and thus probably not most available armor mods

  2b:  Such a body nevertheless was being developed, but Thing 1 probably throws the future of that project into doubt.

 

Have I gotten everything right?

Not that serious. I think SMP will update follow the SKSE. But with no new features, no new improvements or bugfixes.

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Yoxgg04

Yoxgg04

Posted
Posted
9 hours ago, Tooneyman23 said:

Kind of... We don't actually know what's going on with HDT SMP. From what I've been reading it's either dead or hydrogen will eventually update it. Otherwise, the community will have to deal with CBP Physics and hope the author polygonhell will update it to work with collisions and hair at some point. As for UUNP and CBBE you are right. However, UNP is be developed by myself and a group of other modders to be allowed to have custom bodies since where going to keep the project open. 

UNP creator is far more lenient than the CBBE creator, as much as i love CBBE im in the process of switching to UUNP.

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ousnius

ousnius

Posted
Posted
13 minutes ago, Yoxgg04 said:

UNP creator is far more lenient than the CBBE creator, as much as i love CBBE im in the process of switching to UUNP.

CBBE and UUNP were created partially by the same people, so me. UNP is the one that has open permissions, not UUNP.

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Tooneyman23

Tooneyman23

Posted
Posted
11 minutes ago, ousnius said:

CBBE and UUNP were created partially by the same people, so me. UNP is the one that has open permissions, not UUNP.

^DIS!.... Make sure people quote ousnius from here on out when it comes to permissions. There shouldn't be anymore crying about UUNP. His team has all rights to CBBE and UUNP. I'm with him on what he's saying in the thread from later conversations. If you don't like his rules. Make  your own body. It's a royal bitch, but it can be done and is being done. There are quite a few bodies out there which can be made with open permissions, or if people have the will for it. 

 

1 hour ago, elzee said:

Not that serious. I think SMP will update follow the SKSE. But with no new features, no new improvements or bugfixes.

I'm at the mind set right now.. We'll see what happens. I'm not putting my money on anything. I don't count my chickens where they lay. I'm still waiting on Chesko to update Frostfall and Campfire to SKSE64 MCM configurations which is in all honesty the only two mods I want updated more than anything else. Whatever hydrogensayshdt does we'll deal with it as a community. 

 

I would love if the creator of CBP Physics decided to give his code an open source too so we could look at it and learn from it. I think it would benefit the community and if he ever decides to shove off. Another modder could come along who's learning code like myself and update or improve it. Sharing work is important because it helps people learn and grow. I've never understood this close the door behind you mentality. How else will people learn and improve things, but hey.. I'm not those people. I make my promise as a modder and mod author I will always leave the door open as long as I can to the community to allow them to use my mods.  There is a reason the nexus has a care taker now. ? 

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codylowey

codylowey

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, Tooneyman23 said:

 

I would love if the creator of CBP Physics decided to give his code an open source too so we could look at it and learn from it. I think it would benefit the community and if he ever decides to shove off. Another modder could come along who's learning code like myself and update or improve it. 

As a creator (not of Skyrim stuff, but still), if one is actively producing and maintaining a mod I can appreciate wanting to keep things like source code under wraps, its one of the few relatively fireproof rights-protections that are available to mod creators.  Look at the whole mess with UUNP currently because some people chose not to respect the authors' very simple permissions, and they seem to be taking a reputational hit just for trying to re-assert control they've always had over their own stuff.  

 

On the other hand I'm with you - once a person has decided they're no longer interested in developing and maintaining a mod, and they're basically rid of it, it only makes sense to hand it off to whomever else is willing to keep going with it.  You lose nothing.

 

I don't know if CBP's author can truly be said to have discontinued his mod or not, though.  The page says the mod would likely only exist until HDT was completed, but that possibility is now in doubt, and CBP is now the only -working- physics mod that many players have access to.  So it would make sense to consider developing it further.  I'm curious about how far the mod could be taken, and what could be done with it in time.

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GodWearsGucci

GodWearsGucci

Posted
Posted
48 minutes ago, judahel said:

And then Nostradamus (myself) predicted:

"Patreon will ruin every mods  community in 3 years starting from this thread"

...and then the world as we know it will end...(earlier than Trump's world War 3 and global warming)

Keep the political shit and trump out of the comments. This is one play that should be free of that crap. Everyone gets enough of it on social media and the news

 

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codylowey

codylowey

Posted
Posted

As the current "rollback the .exe until SKSE is updated" procedure keeps SMP working for the time being, I suppose you could simply just make sure you never update SSE or SKSE64 from now on, even after the SKSE update is released, and keep using SMP for as long as you wanted.  I highly doubt that any future SSE updates that Bethesda pushes will ever include any actual bugfixes, as opposed to Creation Club stuff, so you could probably get away with that fine.

 

But I guess the problem you have there is mods that are released after that point that require the updated SKSE.  For instance, I'd be fine playing non-updated SSE to have physics for now, but as soon as Chesko finally drops an update for Campfire/Frostfall, if it requires the most up to date version of SKSE then sayonara physics for me, I'll have to make that trade.

 

The other problem is are mod authors willing to keep making or refining their own mods to use SMP, if using those mods means users can never update Skyrim or SKSE?  I bet a lot of them won't.  

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Yoxgg04

Yoxgg04

Posted
Posted
6 hours ago, ousnius said:

CBBE and UUNP were created partially by the same people, so me. UNP is the one that has open permissions, not UUNP.

indeed, my apologies i meant "UNP", either way there seems to be far more SMP otions as far as bodies go when it comes to UNP vs CBBE. i also hope to see SSE running with stability one day with mods like HDT-SMP.

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Illuminati

Illuminati

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, GodWearsGucci said:

Keep the political shit and trump out of the comments. This is one play that should be free of that crap. Everyone gets enough of it on social media and the news

 

Amen. Absolutely no politics on LL, please. 

 

Has anyone reached out to the author of CBP? They might be our only hope for physics in Skyrim SE moving forward. 

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