garg Posted October 9, 2016 Posted October 9, 2016 Wouldn't it be much easier to have just single progressive animations with no stages or transitions needed?
Guest Posted October 9, 2016 Posted October 9, 2016 Wouldn't it be much easier to have just single progressive animations with no stages or transitions needed? Sure, but way more limiting. And a Performance (read the first specs) may be done with just sequential animations.
Goubo Posted October 9, 2016 Posted October 9, 2016 I hope you guys are aware of how much more work it's going to be to add hand animated transitions. Every stage will have to have custom transitions for every other potential stage. Let's say I have 10 performances consisting of 5 stages each making a total of 50 stages. Each of those stages have to be able to transition into each other totaling 2500 transition animations (2550 animations in all). Let's add 1 more performance. It's going to be 3600 transition animations (3660 animations in all). Multiply that number by how many participants are in the performance. Yezzus! AND you have to ask every animator to make transitions into another animator's animation... There is of course ways to minimize the count such as only limiting certain stages to...a certain stage in the performance, but it's still going to be quite a lot. It's going to be a choice between artistic liberties (pickers can't be choosers) and unique performances or transitions. I'm interested to see how well havok can handle the transitions though. It might be the saving grace. Note: It's possible my math is wrong but still, it's going to be a lot of work. That's not what I have in mind at all when I speak about transitions, maybe I don't explain myself properly my English isn't that good , I'm talking about transitions bewteen each stage within a performance to add fluidity and not bewteen each possible performance that would be crazy and not realizable. Let's say you have a 4 stage performance, the first stage begins by the 2 actor standing and kissing, in the stage 2 the female turns around and they start sexing, well between those 2 stage it would be better if there were a transition animation where the female actually turns and the male begins the penetration then the stage 2 starts, the stage 3 would just be a speed increase so no transition needed, the stage 4 is the male cuming so a transition 3-4 would make him pull out the stuff and then start stage 4: cumming. We can see this kinda in SexLab with some animations already where animators animate a transition at the start of a new stage, I just thought it would be way more intuitive to include with the API doing this for them and for it to be optional to make for animators, the user could also be able to disable it for one or more performance if they want a performance to be faster or they don't like how this performance plays with the transitions enabled, idk reasons. Optional entry transition (stage 0 -> 1) would be great too but should be a seperate toggle as it could look wierd depending on the position of the actors when the performance starts. It could even be multiple transition options for the player to choose: if I take my example above, the transition 3-4 could be either cumming inside or outside, the player could also choose random for this. It could be used to change every transition animations for one performance from normal to aggressive if available when a aggressive SexTec scene is called. Ok maybe I'm overthinking it now, but you get the idea.
Guest kimbale Posted October 9, 2016 Posted October 9, 2016 Just don't hardcode anything about the stages, but instead allow custom staging which can be set up by the animator. It would be great to be able to combine different loops lengths and variations at the same time (ie 3-frame hump combined with 10-frame doggy in one stage). ...but that's all dependent on how animations will be synced overall. I think that more flexibilty for mod makers (in this case animators, mostly) is what made 0sex better for a lot of people. We could also make a library of transitions for a number of generic starting/ending positions to use as a unified base. It would fit with the stage spike position thingy.
garg Posted October 9, 2016 Posted October 9, 2016 Well it would be nice to hear some input from prospective animators! Looks to me like things might get too complex and scare them off or make things too difficult for them! As for Osex it only had consensual animations and IMHO didn't even come close to Sexlab and it's animations and mods!
Guest Posted October 9, 2016 Posted October 9, 2016 Right now I am having conversations with Leito and ShadeAnimators. Early stages, but we will share our progress.
Vuulgar Posted October 9, 2016 Posted October 9, 2016 I am more curious than knowledgeable. The talk of transitions and stages has brought to mind a question about attached sound files. Currently Sexlab applies a sound set to animations but often it doesnt match the overall feel of of the situation. Will Sextec have the ability to apply a seperate sound set to consenual or aggressive animations? Also would transitions include setup animations for a scene start, something like a backhand for aggressive while using kissing tostart consenuals? Its very exciting to see things moving forward, thanks to all involved!
Guest Posted October 9, 2016 Posted October 9, 2016 I am more curious than knowledgeable. The talk of transitions and stages has brought to mind a question about attached sound files. Currently Sexlab applies a sound set to animations but often it doesnt match the overall feel of of the situation. Will Sextec have the ability to apply a seperate sound set to consenual or aggressive animations? Also would transitions include setup animations for a scene start, something like a backhand for aggressive while using kissing tostart consenuals? Its very exciting to see things moving forward, thanks to all involved! The sound part of the mod has nothing decided yet. For sure it has low priority compared to the other sections. When it will be time, then something will be decided and implemented. I prefer to avoid to do a crap implementation and have to replace it after. So probably the first version will be silent.
tolwrath Posted October 10, 2016 Posted October 10, 2016 -snip- As a software developer myself (business software), I can tell you that manually creating transitions for each type of performance, and each individual performance is the wrong way to go. It's simply too much work, and different mod authors will definitely not create transitions to animations for other modders' works. Instead, the system should use a series of common Start and End Poses. Then the only "engine" requirement for transitions will really be the transitions between the different common Start and End poses. Individual performance animations can then worry about only a set of 3-4 animations each: transitioning from start to repeateable, repeateable, transitioning from repeatable to end, and an "alternate transition to end pose" if their animation happens to be the final in a series of performances. Using the start and end pose system will yield the following workflow: 1. Transition Idle pose (or end pose of previous performance) to start pose. 2. Transition start pose to repeatable performance animation. 3. Repeatable performance animation. 4. Transition repeatable performance animation to end pose or climax pose. And the miracle of it is that only the animations in step 1 would need to be part of the SexTec engine, the animations of step 3-4 would be handled by only 3-4 modder added animations. This way modders could add new animations with relatively minimal effort, and there'd be no problem getting animations from different modders to play after eachother.
Guest Posted October 10, 2016 Posted October 10, 2016 -snip- Read the doc. The Ragdoll Position is the only item that may require a transition. Not the stages.
balthazard8888 Posted October 10, 2016 Posted October 10, 2016 -snip- Read the doc. The Ragdoll Position is the only item that may require a transition. Not the stages. How about using the pain and moan sounds of each NPC as their sounds during intercourse ?
Orrayt3x Posted October 11, 2016 Posted October 11, 2016 http://www.naughtymachinima.com/video/19666/fallout-4-danse-and-maccready
Raelic Posted October 11, 2016 Posted October 11, 2016 But, I don't think we have an SOS equivalent male replacement yet. I still want the FO4 version to be called Cocks of the Commonwealth. >.> Edit: for testing the SexTec is there a certain way to go about doing so?
Guest Posted October 11, 2016 Posted October 11, 2016 But, I don't think we have an SOS equivalent male replacement yet. I still want the FO4 version to be called Cocks of the Commonwealth. >.> Edit: for testing the SexTec is there a certain way to go about doing so? The official name was Boners of Boston (BOB.) But also COC looks nice.
sgfhk321 Posted October 11, 2016 Posted October 11, 2016 I still want the FO4 version to be called Cocks of the Commonwealth. >.> You mean Cawks of the Commonwealth?
prinyo Posted October 11, 2016 Posted October 11, 2016 COC or BOB... or whatever the name.... Is someone working on such a project? I haven't seen it mentioned anywhere.
pipdude Posted October 11, 2016 Posted October 11, 2016 COC or BOB... or whatever the name.... Is someone working on such a project? I haven't seen it mentioned anywhere. It looks like there are several projects that add the equipment. But, they don't appear to handle stages like SOS and the associated body models, etc. seem kind of niche. I think that a mainstream, comprehensive solution is still needed. -snip- Read the doc. The Ragdoll Position is the only item that may require a transition. Not the stages. This is different than the transition issue. But, I was thinking that it would be interesting for animators to have the option to have multiple animation loops for one "action". In other words, say there are 3 missionary loop animations that all start from the exact same pose. But, they are all slightly varied. Then the engine plays these randomly (or by some variables defined by animators) for random intervals. The result should be a less mechanical look.
prinyo Posted October 11, 2016 Posted October 11, 2016 COC or BOB... or whatever the name.... Is someone working on such a project? I haven't seen it mentioned anywhere. It looks like there are several projects that add the equipment. But, they don't appear to handle stages like SOS and the associated body models, etc. seem kind of niche. I think that a mainstream, comprehensive solution is still needed. AFAIK Skyrim is the only game where the guys have "dynamic equipment". I have no idea if this is because this is the only game that supports this kind of modding or because this is the only game that has inspired someone who has the technology knowledge to spend time and energy in developing it. Looking at Oblivion and FONV sex frameworks work fine enough without dynamic male junk by simply attaching the needed tool at the needed time. So I'm not taking for granted that there will be such a mod available for FO4 soon or even at all. Especially with Skyrim SE around the corner and possible new moddable Bethesda game in several months. The Skyrim SE is especially important consideration as if it turns out it is more stable and crashing less than the "old" Skyrim (and if FO4 is something to judge by it will be) then a lot of people will return to the game and will spend a lot of time porting mods and creating new ones. But back to the point - I would be very happy if somebody is working on a COC or BOB but not holding my breath... That's why I asked if somebody has said that they are working on such a project.
pipdude Posted October 12, 2016 Posted October 12, 2016 AFAIK Skyrim is the only game where the guys have "dynamic equipment". I have no idea if this is because this is the only game that supports this kind of modding or because this is the only game that has inspired someone who has the technology knowledge to spend time and energy in developing it. Looking at Oblivion and FONV sex frameworks work fine enough without dynamic male junk by simply attaching the needed tool at the needed time. So I'm not taking for granted that there will be such a mod available for FO4 soon or even at all. Especially with Skyrim SE around the corner and possible new moddable Bethesda game in several months. The Skyrim SE is especially important consideration as if it turns out it is more stable and crashing less than the "old" Skyrim (and if FO4 is something to judge by it will be) then a lot of people will return to the game and will spend a lot of time porting mods and creating new ones. But back to the point - I would be very happy if somebody is working on a COC or BOB but not holding my breath... That's why I asked if somebody has said that they are working on such a project. The way animations and skeletons work is very similar. The same thing is possible in FO4. But, even in Skyrim it was the product of an advanced, undocumented technique. So, someone else with similar skills will be needed in FO4. I think that ShadeAnimator could figure this out. Hopefully he isn't discouraged that the great work he has already done hasn't really resulted in a lot mods yet due to no F4SE, etc. I think the SOS mod helped in a number of ways above and beyond what is available in Oblivion, etc. It added immersion, there were many spin-off mods (even physics eventually) and it helped standardize the male body options so that we didn't end up with 30,000 different ways to create clipping. I think that Skyrim SE will be a big improvement. However, many key mods will need to be redone to work with it. So, it looks like it will be in a similar state to FO4 at least for some time. I got your last question. I just answered it in a round-about way in case I missed it that someone had taken it on. Nobody has as far as I know.
dinomagick Posted October 13, 2016 Posted October 13, 2016 Just tossing this in the mix, because I don't know enough about Fallout 4 modding.... However, seeing as that skse is pretty much required to go beyond the limitations of Havok's script engine to make things work the way they are now in Skyrim, and there seems to still be a good deal of work needing to get f4se up to the task within Fallout 4, the question that I would ask is this: "Exactly how far can any of the animator's actually go, at this point, until a fully capable version of f4se gets out there?" I have already encountered a few mods requiring f4se, and they're not always working due to the updates occurring every so often with FO4 that stops f4se from running.
Vader666 Posted October 13, 2016 Posted October 13, 2016 ..."Exactly how far can any of the animator's actually go, at this point, until a fully capable version of f4se gets out there?"... Animators can do what they want even without F4SE. But managing which Actor should play which Animation at time X isn´t really possible without script extender. Let alone the positioning between Actors...
AsariX Posted October 14, 2016 Posted October 14, 2016 Just wondering.. Are there things you learned from Skyrims' Sexlab? Like, features you'd actually like to add to Sexlab now, but which would require too much an overhaul of the core engine that it's just too much work, but which you could plan ahead for in Sextec now to include sooner or later?
Guest Posted October 14, 2016 Posted October 14, 2016 Just wondering.. Are there things you learned from Skyrims' Sexlab? Like, features you'd actually like to add to Sexlab now, but which would require too much an overhaul of the core engine that it's just too much work, but which you could plan ahead for in Sextec now to include sooner or later? The main big feature that we will bring from SexLab, is the experience we got by building it. Of course some logic, and many great ideas. But probably there will be not a single line of code copy/pasted.
veraleth Posted October 14, 2016 Posted October 14, 2016 Messing around with animations... AnalDoggy.gif Doggy.gif Missionary.gif Holy cow these are so good. The loop isn't at all obvious and the way you made the butt deform on impact is fantastic. Edit: Wait, you're Leito. Everyone has been using your animations for so long I think my feedback is redundant. Carry on.
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