Paradise Halls - Home Sweet Home (SE/LE)

[DonQuiWho]

12 hours ago, grosaprap said:

 

To be fair, this is a 'Skyrim' problem. Not a 'slave cart' problem. The implementation of Havok in Skyrim makes any sort of 'cart based' mod a mix of Kerbal Space program and intent. Whenever the mesh of the cart intersects with another object (which can happen quite easily and more easily the faster you move and the more complex the landscape around the cart is) the system attempts to 'push' the cart out of the object... often launching it. SLUT had the same issues with the carts attached to the players with it's pony play.

 

Yep.  I agree that that's absolutely right

 

Have used both for years, in both LE and SE.  TBH, I totally gave up on SLUTs as I've never ever had it working properly on either.  Musje's cart will work impeccably in some games, but I thought it worth mentioning in case the original poster just got unlucky with their one

Edited May 2, 2023 by DonQuiWho

[EmerlGEX]

Hello, i hope someone can help me, every time i design (Transfer) a slave to a camp they mess up their textures becoming pink, it only happens with slaves that are on HSM lists and debuging the slave dont fix it, furniture and tokens works fine.

[Martok73]

On 4/16/2023 at 1:53 PM, Will55 said:

Martok73.

 

Exactly what gag do you use? I ask as I have gagged 25 slaves with a black leather ball gag and they still speak,, even after 8 were moved back to PAH

Am I just impatient?

OOC I made a BDSM gag and  Maid gag to see if that makes a difference but as I am moving "house" (see "basement" or "cellar") I am yet to follow it up.

 

On 4/17/2023 at 4:34 AM, Will55 said:

To Martok73

 

Despite being gagged they still give the polite reply and even if they are silent (relatively or absolutely) there is NO "I told you to speak to me properly" line to justify punishment.

 

On 4/19/2023 at 5:16 AM, Will55 said:

To Martok73

 

I am using ZBF gags on 3 Thalmor slaves (transferred from HSH to PAH) with 65 respect and these gags (unlike the black leather ball gags) seem to stop speech some of the time.

But when they do NOT stop speech my char reads/hears every insult in the slaves lexicon including some new ones (for me).

Yet, there is NO possible PC response to this. No speech line saying:" I thought etc...." Hence , NO excuse to punish them and no way to increase  respect.

I punished them any way and they just hate my char more and respect remains at 65 regardless. 

 

What can I do here? I have learnt my lesson about allowing mouthy slaves into the homes(had to kill one ages ago to stop her) and so cannot use any as such.

It is making slavery seem pointless again.

 

Hey mate, before I read these posts here, I replied to one of your posts on the PAHE thread with a rather long post answering or at least trying to answer these questions and explained my process of how I do it with a new slave, so I hope that helps, and if you have anymore questions or it doesn't make sense, just reply there or here, whichever, I'll do my best to help ya out ?.

[Will55]

10 hours ago, Martok73 said:

 

 

 

Hey mate, before I read these posts here, I replied to one of your posts on the PAHE thread with a rather long post answering or at least trying to answer these questions and explained my process of how I do it with a new slave, so I hope that helps, and if you have anymore questions or it doesn't make sense, just reply there or here, whichever, I'll do my best to help ya out ?.

Apologies for the dissemination but I have some 12 LL pages bookmarked currently and I do lose track. 

Thanks for that reply.I did take your advice but it seems not to work well for me.

 

The problem is that I have a ZBF gag which appears to be 80% effective (i.e. no intelligible speech 80% of the time). But when they mumble in reply, when it is successful, there is NO option to say : "I thought I told you...etc." and hence to way to punish them and therefore no way to gain respect. This is one of the stumbling blocks that have helped to ruin so many previous runs. Of all my gagged slaves(some 40+) only ONE has "succumbed" and given me the punishment option to increase respect past 65 twice. I visit the gagged slaves each RT day and attempt speech to each one and the success rate is about 1/400 which is insanely difficult. I am just "praying" that I can beat her to 100 then HSH her and set her to training others. All other slave skills are ludicrously easy to increase by comparison.

 

I doubt that you can really help me here, although I do appreciate the attempt, as it seems to be inherent within PAHE., hence my other page posts.

 

Update:

 

well this is extremely strange. I added a new non gagged Necromance to the other 15 or 16 I had all restrained together  ( I keep the arch NMs separate) and she was as rude as usual. So I gave her the usual warning with little effect and so  did the usual: "I thought etc" with punish by 25 swipes of the cane and IIRC it was 6 or 7 times as each time I spoke to her the: "I thought etc," offer of further punishment came up. I wondered WTH was going on so I stopped and checked and she was a100 respect. BUT as soon as I went over to unbind her and promote her to HSH my char tripped over something and ran into her and copped the definitively NON respectful,  100 or not,  "watch it!".

SO IMVHO the whole point of pushing respect to the ludicrous value of 100  is now pointless as it was that very common "watch it!" from slaves that I was trying to remove as I had sold so many such mouthy slaves in the past purely because of this rudeness. So, what is the ^%$ing point?

 

So 65 will do as 100 is pointless and I will just remove any slave who is rude and by whatever means necessary.

 

I wish I had known this for the last 3 runs.

 

Update II

So I transfer the mouthy one to HSH to train other slaves in respect (sic!) and as soon as I did so, the insults poured out of her.

So, back to PAHE and another thrashing plus 2 plugs and a black leather harness and the insults cease and the politeness returns. (Haughty HE)

So I tried one of the older recalcitrant ones (another Haughty HE). Removed her gag and sent her to HSH. The insults then came thick and fast immediately. So, back to PAHE fro a thrashing, plugs and harness. 

I do not know what HSH does to them (not enough experience with it) but they seem to have little or no REAL respect when they move there. It may be just the Haughty ones but I do not yet know. Oh what fun and a waste of time!

I will try another non haughty one.

 

Update III

I tried several others: all respectful, submissive and most with + SLEN in PAHE.

As soon as they moved to HSH they ALL became rude and returned to PAHE.

This makes transferring to HSH quite pointless unless I have no intention of keeping the slaves.

 

I suppose that I can just use it as garbage bin in which to dump the bandits and forsworn before unloading them but I am so disappointed.

Perhaps I just expected too much. Easy for me to criticize i guess but I do not want house slaves who speak like that.

Interestingly, immediately upon return to PAHE, the insults ceased and the politeness resumed. So it IS HSH.

 

For the hell of it I will dump miss 100 respect into HSH and get her to train a recalcitrant just to see what happens.

It is quite funny so far as the trainee stats are equal or  better than the trainer except for respect which has not budged. yes., I know. I am too impatient.

Time will tell I guess as the next trainee is a real gift to mankind.

Edited May 11, 2023 by Will55

[Martok73]

9 hours ago, Will55 said:

Apologies for the dissemination but I have some 12 LL pages bookmarked currently and I do lose track. 

Thanks for that reply.I did take your advice but it seems not to work well for me.

 

The problem is that I have a ZBF gag which appears to be 80% effective (i.e. no intelligible speech 80% of the time). But when they mumble in reply, when it is successful, there is NO option to say : "I thought I told you...etc." and hence to way to punish them and therefore no way to gain respect. This is one of the stumbling blocks that have helped to ruin so many previous runs. Of all my gagged slaves(some 40+) only ONE has "succumbed" and given me the punishment option to increase respect past 65 twice. I visit the gagged slaves each RT day and attempt speech to each one and the success rate is about 1/400 which is insanely difficult. I am just "praying" that I can beat her to 100 then HSH her and set her to training others. All other slave skills are ludicrously easy to increase by comparison.

 

I doubt that you can really help me here, although I do appreciate the attempt, as it seems to be inherent within PAHE., hence my other page posts.

 

Update:

 

well this is extremely strange. I added a new non gagged Necromance to the other 15 or 16 I had all restrained together  ( I keep the arch NMs separate) and she was as rude as usual. So I gave her the usual warning with little effect and so  did the usual: "I thought etc" with punish by 25 swipes of the cane and IIRC it was 6 or 7 times as each time I spoke to her the: "I thought etc," offer of further punishment came up. I wondered WTH was going on so I stopped and checked and she was a100 respect. BUT as soon as I went over to unbind her and promote her to HSH my char tripped over something and ran into her and copped the definitively NON respectful,  100 or not,  "watch it!".

SO IMVHO the whole point of pushing respect to the ludicrous value of 100  is now pointless as it was that very common "watch it!" from slaves that I was trying to remove as I had sold so many such mouthy slaves in the past purely because of this rudeness. So, what is the ^%$ing point?

 

So 65 will do as 100 is pointless and I will just remove any slave who is rude and by whatever means necessary.

 

I wish I had known this for the last 3 runs.

 

Update II

So I transfer the mouthy one to HSH to train other slaves in respect (sic!) and as soon as I did so, the insults poured out of her.

So, back to PAHE and another thrashing plus 2 plugs and a black leather harness and the insults cease and the politeness returns. (Haughty HE)

So I tried one of the older recalcitrant ones (another Haughty HE). Removed her gag and sent her to HSH. The insults then came thick and fast immediately. So, back to PAHE fro a thrashing, plugs and harness. 

I do not know what HSH does to them (not enough experience with it) but they seem to have little or no REAL respect when they move there. It may be just the Haughty ones but I do not yet know. Oh what fun and a waste of time!

I will try another non haughty one.

 

Update III

I tried several others: all respectful, submissive and most with + SLEN in PAHE.

As soon as they moved to HSH they ALL became rude and returned to PAHE.

This makes transferring to HSH quite pointless unless I have no intention of keeping the slaves.

 

I suppose that I can just use it as garbage bin in which to dump the bandits and forsworn before unloading them but I am so disappointed.

Perhaps I just expected too much. Easy for me to criticize i guess but I do not want house slaves who speak like that.

Interestingly, immediately upon return to PAHE, the insults ceased and the politeness resumed. So it IS HSH.

 

For the hell of it I will dump miss 100 respect into HSH and get her to train a recalcitrant just to see what happens.

It is quite funny so far as the trainee stats are equal or  better than the trainer except for respect which has not budged. yes., I know. I am too impatient.

Time will tell I guess as the next trainee is a real gift to mankind.

Ok, so what I'm gathering from all this, is somehow you're bugged, or rather your slaves are bugged. I've got several hundred slaves across multiple save files, and the ones that have 100 sub and 100 respect, don't ever speak to my characters in a rude way. Once in awhile they will forget to greet properly but they are never ever rude. As for them being inside of HSH, I had one slave a few months ago that was very rarely rude, if I started to talk to her then just escaped out of the convo without choosing anything, but it was rare, and she was a generic bandit high elf npc, not sure voice type tho as not all high elf npcs use the same voice.

 

As I stated in the other post, when training respect if submission is over the runaway threshold, which I think is 60 or 65 by default, then respect will be extremely slow if not impossible to raise. A slave must have the minimum submission level to start respect training which is 40, and it has to stay below 60 to reach 100 within a reasonable amount of time. You CAN NOT use any dialog options other than "I thought I told you to address me properly" and "You are going to be punished", once you start training respect, you CAN NOT, give them any warnings at all, in other words NEVER choose the "Make sure you remember" dialog option, as that WILL mess it all up and make the "I thought I told you" dialog option to not trigger normally. Also, do not wait real world days, once you start training, finish it, it takes about 30-45 mins and sometimes faster. Talk to the slave, and if the correct dialog option is not there then HIT ESCAPE, and wait about a real minute or two, then talk to them again. Repeat this until the right dialog "I thought I told you" dialog appears. It is RNG, so it will reset and be random with ever interaction, that is why it is important you must escape out if it's not there, and wait a minute or two and try again. Remember once you start training respect, always finish it before ever selecting any other dialog option, and always use the punish option and never ever give them any warnings at all. I'm sorry but for this to work right, your character has to be a bitch/bastard, you can't "give them a chance" at all. Oh and one last thing, don't have abunch of slaves following you when you're doing this,I wouldn't have more than 5 or 10 at most around, (the fewer the better), and try to be in an interior cell away from other npcs, a cleared out dungeon works well from my experience.

 

With HSH if the slave has 100 in sub and respect they should never greet you rudely unless you literally click on them to start a convo and then hit escape, that's the only time I've ever had any fully trained slave be "rude", and then it was very rarely. I think it's a hard code with the npc AI, because if you do the same thing with a normal npc you will get a similar response and it's kinda "brash", like "fine didn't want to talk to you anyway", kinda thing. Which IMHO adds flavor and realism, and makes them alot more "alive"/"immersive". But that's just my humble opinion.

 

If you are getting constant rude speech inside HSH when having a complete conversation with a slave, and not just escaping out, and the slave in question has 100 submission and 100 respect, then either that npc is bugged, or your mods are not playing nice with each other. See I don't use DoM nor SLEN, I only use PAHE and HSH, and I've only had the rude/brash behavior a couple of times the whole time I've been using these mods for the past year or two, so it may possibly be either a bugged npc or another  mod is altering the npc AI to the point that the slave stats in PAHE and HSH are not being respected or used. If it were me, I'd go bare bones and try it with only PAHE and HSH and see what happens using no more than 5 slaves or so, just to keep it quick and easy. If you have different results and the slaves "behave" as they are supposed to without any other mods that alter the AI installed, then it is def a mod issue, but if it still happens, then I'd say the generic base id npc is bugged, or ya know, worse case scenario is these mods just don't like you and don't want you to have nice things (respectful slaves), LOL.

 

Anyway, I honestly do not know what more I can tell you to try or any other advice to give ya really, as I've pretty much laid out exactly how I do it on my PC in my Skyrim SE 1.5.97 edition and so far so good. The rare occasion of a "mouthy" slave is one thing, but consistently being "mouthy" is an issue that needs to be address, cause I can promise you that this is not normal for PAHE or HSH from my own personal experience with them over the past couple of years.

 

I hope this helps and as always I'm here to help ? and good luck.

[Will55]

20 hours ago, Martok73 said:

Ok, so what I'm gathering from all this, is somehow you're bugged, or rather your slaves are bugged. I've got several hundred slaves across multiple save files, and the ones that have 100 sub and 100 respect, don't ever speak to my characters in a rude way. Once in awhile they will forget to greet properly but they are never ever rude. As for them being inside of HSH, I had one slave a few months ago that was very rarely rude, if I started to talk to her then just escaped out of the convo without choosing anything, but it was rare, and she was a generic bandit high elf npc, not sure voice type tho as not all high elf npcs use the same voice.

 

 

Anyway, I honestly do not know what more I can tell you to try or any other advice to give ya really, as I've pretty much laid out exactly how I do it on my PC in my Skyrim SE 1.5.97 edition and so far so good. The rare occasion of a "mouthy" slave is one thing, but consistently being "mouthy" is an issue that needs to be address, cause I can promise you that this is not normal for PAHE or HSH from my own personal experience with them over the past couple of years.

 

I hope this helps and as always I'm here to help ? and good luck.

 

Thank you!

That is EXACTLY what I needed to know and I can see the problem: my new slaves go immediately to the Bondage House and I never see them again until submission/pose are 100 and as you post, that is far too late. What IS interesting is that the lack of respect only seems to happen to some HSH slaves (those newly moved to HSH) as the majority, with respect 65 are well behaved. So, I do not think that it is bugged but my fault. I find DW slaves to be much more flexible than nonDW but haughty HEs are always a problem. DW or not. Some of the difficult PAHE slave have already had a sojourn in HSH, so this was their 2nd, if short, stay there. But the one who hit 100 respect very quickly came straight from the Bondage House(with 100 sub/pose) as she was a recent capture.

 

I will test this by cloning a recalcitrant slave into a new slave and seeing what happens when i begin to train respect at sub 60. The 100 respect slave will be first.

 

I am still curious about how 65 respect seems to work for most PAHE and already HSH slaves and why the transfer to HSH seems to remove it in definitely some as I am not convinced it is all. I have only necromancers and thalmor slaves in HSH and neither are exactly user friendly at best . Perhaps the lack of respect is due to hatred  because of the -4 SLEN on those recently transferred as most of my respectful HSH/PAHE slaves are +ve SLEN (no idea why  and I MEAN that as other than the initial obligatory slave rape that is all).

 

I will have to run a garage sale on all of my bandit and forsworn slaves so I can clone all difficult HSH /PAHE slaves to see if you are correct which I expect to be so.

 

All in all I find this fascinating, if distracting from what else I wish to do.

 

Apologies to you and the others here.

 

 

Edited May 12, 2023 by Will55

[Martok73]

5 hours ago, Will55 said:

 

Thank you!

That is EXACTLY what I needed to know and I can see the problem: my new slaves go immediately to the Bondage House and I never see them again until submission/pose are 100 and as you post, that is far too late. What IS interesting is that the lack of respect only seems to happen to some HSH slaves (those newly moved to HSH) as the majority, with respect 65 are well behaved. So, I do not think that it is bugged but my fault. I find DW slaves to be much more flexible than nonDW but haughty HEs are always a problem. DW or not. Some of the difficult PAHE slave have already had a sojourn in HSH, so this was their 2nd, if short, stay there. But the one who hit 100 respect very quickly came straight from the Bondage House(with 100 sub/pose) as she was a recent capture.

 

I will test this by cloning a recalcitrant slave into a new slave and seeing what happens when i begin to train respect at sub 60. The 100 respect slave will be first.

 

I am still curious about how 65 respect seems to work for most PAHE and already HSH slaves and why the transfer to HSH seems to remove it in definitely some as I am not convinced it is all. I have only necromancers and thalmor slaves in HSH and neither are not exactly user friendly at best . Perhaps the lack of respect is due to hatred  because of the -4 SLEN on those recently transferred as most of my respectful HSH/PAHE slaves are +ve SLEN (no idea why  and I MEAN that as other than the initial obligatory slave rape that is all).

 

I will have to run a garage sale on all of my bandit and forsworn slaves so I can clone all difficult HSH /PAHE slaves to see if you are correct which I expect to be so.

 

All in all I find this fascinating, if distracting from what else I wish to do.

 

Apologies to you and the others here.

 

 

Yeah, as I explained, this has been my experience from my own various save games from what I can tell and conclude. Not sure what you mean by "DW" slaves, lol. Anytime I have a new character that is going to even just dabble in slavery as a "side" business or just for personal use, I always use this strategy to acquire my first fully respectful slaves. I'd say 99% of the time on a new char with their very first slave, they get trained in respect right where I enslave them, which is normally a dungeon of some sorts. As for how I RP being a bitch/bastard to them? Even on characters that are not that way normally and are "nice" I look at it as "they tried to kill me", so by sparring them I am already being nice and doing them a favor as for the vast majority of bandits, forsworn, necromancers, vampires, etc... death and their eternity would be much worse than anything my character can do to them as a slave. So the "nice" stops at sparring their life, at least until they are 100 respect, submission, and sex, lol. Once that character has the first 100 respect slave, the rest is easy peasy lemon squezy. But yeah, from all my many many hours with slaves using PAHE and HSH, I have found that respect training is much easier when done this way on fresh new slaves under 60 sub (the default escape threshold). On a new char that doesn't have any slaves with 100 respect, this is how I do it, even on older chars that are just starting to get slaves, once a slave is acquired, I don't let them sit idle somewhere else and "de-load", 99% of the time their respect training is done right where they get enslaved. The only exception to this is if they are outside in an open camp anywhere that is not an interior cell. If that happens, then without fast traveling, I'll take the slaves to a quite interior cell somewhere close by where I can "work", lol. Even if it's an occupied mine, as long as it can be cleared out rather quickly while the slaves are tied inside the entrance, that'll work too. The smaller bandit mines work well such as Embershard near Riverwood. I normally don't enslave open world bandit/forsworn tho as for some reason most of them are very low level and they don't sell well even when fully trained, so most of the time I kill them.

 

Anyway good luck and I hope all goes well and this helps. I'm not sure how it will work with a "re-cloned" slave as I don't know how their stats are handled, I only know that from my experience this works well with new slaves with 0 stats. Anyway, glad to help, and as always, I'll be here if ya need anything. ?

[Will55]

On 5/13/2023 at 2:44 AM, Martok73 said:

Anyway good luck and I hope all goes well and this helps. I'm not sure how it will work with a "re-cloned" slave as I don't know how their stats are handled, I only know that from my experience this works well with new slaves with 0 stats. Anyway, glad to help, and as always, I'll be here if ya need anything. ?

Thank you for that.

DWs are the Deadly Wenches of the Immersive wench series and their level always matches your own, no matter how high it might be. They infiltrate females at all levels in SSE. e.g.,  a non DW Beth necromancer will be 50 maximum, but if your char is level 100 so will be the DW one and as well they are less ugly. They help to increase the challenge.

 

Quite honestly having seen, met and talked with slaves in RL I have always been totally against it. But, it does play  a humane role as when the alternative is certain death, it IS preferable and many slaves are well aware of that. The one female slave I talked with told me that "they killed the rest of her family" and that despite all she was happy to be alive. At the time I thought little of it as I think that I was disgusted by her acceptance. (correction: that is WRONG! They would not allow me or my interpreter to talk to her and although I could see her in front of me, she only spoke to the male slaves who spoke to my interpreter...the males were disgusted by her acceptance as was I)

BUT! LL ,PAH & TDF have given me a factual view of slavery as a true alternative to death. Like you I see it as a gift to those who try to kill my char and so they must accept it and its vicissitudes  and I have no sympathy for those I enslave. BUT! I have enslaved a very few lust objects for the hell of it in F4/FNV & SSE and I feel quite guilty about that and in fact, these few have a very good life in recompense. The whole slavery issue in RL has been warped politically by the usual suspects and the actual truth is rarely known (hence the BBC's disgusting view).

 

BUT back to HSH.

I recloned an arch Necromancer slave who was 65  respect and had NPs getting her to 100 and she is now training another. But as soon as I transferred her to HSH and pointed out her new slave, the smart**** comments appeared...again. Her trainee with a respect of 65 as soon as she was moved to HSH made the comment:"you are a cold hearted bitch".

WTH????? These could be SLEN based and both slaves were heavily -ve (one 3, the other, 4)

If it is not SLEN then HSH seems to somehow undermine the effects of PAHE respect as even 100 has no real effect.

This IS early and based upon only  a few but I will continue and see if it re-occurs and try to see SLEN's role here.

Edited May 21, 2023 by Will55

[Martok73]

16 hours ago, Will55 said:

I recloned an arch Necromancer slave who was 65  respect and had NPs getting her to 100 and she is now training another. But as soon as I transferred her to HSH and pointed out her new slave, the smart**** comments appeared...again. Her trainee with a respect of 65 as soon as she was moved to HSH made the comment:"you are a cold hearted bitch".

WTH????? These could be SLEN based and both slaves were heavily -ve (one 3, the other, 4)

If it is not SLEN then HSH seems to somehow undermine the effects of PAHE respect as even 100 has no real effect.

This IS early and based upon only  a few but I will continue and see if it re-occurs and try to see SLEN's role here.

I'd almost bet money it's SLEN causing it, as to be perfectly honest, in all my hours of playing with PAHE and HSH, I don't remember ever having a slave wit 100 respect randomly making smart ass or rude comments without provocation, and even with provocation it has been so rare that I'd have better luck winning the lottery than recreating the conditions causing them to be "brash" in game. With that said there are certain "actions" that a player can take that will cause hard coded "responses" or "comments" from npcs that from my experience nothing can stop or curb. Some of these actions are "firing a weapon or spell straight up in the air near a npc/slave", walking very close "bumping" into a npc with a vanilla fire spell equipped in your hand, will trigger a response that may come off as "rude", me I find it funny. One of my favorites is the hard coded line a npc uses when they are following you and you "shoot" them... "Hey watch it, I'm on your side"... love that line, so damn funny coming from a slave, and nothing can stop them from making that comment randomly either when they are following you via PAHE and you "accidentally, hit them" with something while in combat. It especially is funny when you set them to fight for you. As for the comment you got "You're a cold hearted bitch", I have gotten that line from a few slaves, but none of them had over 60 respect, and I had already "done" things and used some game mechanics I figured out to "trigger" it. So yeah, I'd almost be willing to be money that the - value of the SLEN stat is causing the issue, as when I try to "force" a comment from a slave, once they have 100 respect I have found it is almost impossible, not fully, but almost. Very Very Very rarely have I been able to "force" any kinda of negative comment from a slave when they are fully trained and have only been successful when doing it with one that had a default voice of either "female commander", or "high elf haughty", even then tho I had to try very very hard and several times in a row before getting a "rise" outta the slave.

 

Use the console and target the slave giving you the negative comments, and type in "getrelationshiprank player" and see what it gives you, I'd be willing to be it's a negative number, and if it's not then I'd say most definitely SLEN interfering. Of all the slaves, which mind you is a very very small number, I have been successfully able to "trigger" a negative comment one while they had 100 respect, the result of the console command "getrelationshiprank player" was -4, so it was the lowest possible it could have been. But even with a -4 relationshiprank, it was so damn hard to trigger that negative comment, I concluded and confirmed 99% of the time it would never occur naturally in game. But yeah, check that stat on the "mouthy" slave and see what it says, then check the SLEN status and see if it's negative, cause I bet that is the culprit to be honest.

 

Now do keep in mind, that even a fully trained 100 in every stat slave, will make a comment as soon as you select the dialog option of "You're going to stay here awhile" that moves them from PAHE to HSH, and from what I can tell there are only a few lines that will trigger: "Like I have a choice", "You're a cold hearted bitch/bastard", and "Yes, my Thane". From what I can tell these are the only lines that will trigger when moving from PAHE to HSH, there may be additional lines that can trigger but these are the ones I've seen enough for it to stand out and remember. 99% of the time a slave will use the "Like I have a choice" line regardless of their slave stats, but on rare occasion with some fully trained slaves I have had the "Yes, my Thane, or As you wish" dialog to trigger, but it's rare. I have only heard the line "You're a cold hearted bitch/bastard" one on a few occasions and it has always been on slaves with either 0 respect or below 50 and low sub stat. Not once have I got that line on a slave with 100 in sub/resp when transferring them from PAHE to HSH or vice versa. The few times I have got it the slaves relationshiprank was also at -4 and it was either a slave with the same voice as Mjoll (Nord I think voice type) or the High Elf Haughty voice type. All other voice types have always used "Like I have a choice" dialog line with -4 relationshiprank and low slave stats. Oh and the very very few times I have heard the cold hearted line I had just had my char rape and shock/whip the slave before telling them they were going to stay there too, so they already were not in the best of moods, LOL. I can say I have never ever had a slave with either the "female even toned (Lydia)" or "female young eager (Elisif, Ysolda)" use the dialog line "You're a cold hearted bitch/bastard" and I think the reason is because form what I have found, that line is not available to those voice types as there is no audio files for them, meaning they the VA's for those npcs never recorded those specific lines. Or at least what I have been able to find in the CK or xEdit anyway.

 

Anyway, here's another long ass reply with a huge info dump, and I do hope it helps. As always I'm here to help anyway I possibly can. Good luck mate ?

[Will55]

4 hours ago, Martok73 said:

I'd almost bet money it's SLEN causing it, as to be perfectly honest.

 

Use the console and target the slave giving you the negative comments, and type in "getrelationshiprank player" and see what it gives you, I'd be willing to be it's a negative number, and if it's not then I'd say most definitely SLEN interfering. Of all the slaves, which mind you is a very very small number, I have been successfully able to "trigger" a negative comment one while they had 100 respect, the result of the console command "getrelationshiprank player" was -4, so it was the lowest possible it could have been. But even with a -4 relationshiprank, it was so damn hard to trigger that negative comment, I concluded and confirmed 99% of the time it would never occur naturally in game. But yeah, check that stat on the "mouthy" slave and see what it says, then check the SLEN status and see if it's negative, cause I bet that is the culprit to be honest.

 

Anyway, here's another long ass reply with a huge info dump, and I do hope it helps. As always I'm here to help anyway I possibly can. Good luck mate ?

Your "info dump" is much appreciated so, "Thank you!"

I have to hand it to your WRT your attention to detail which certainly dwarfs mine.

 

I agree WRT SLEN here as once that is accepted it certainly fits the observations.

 

I just sold 11 (or 12??) slaves at Fellglow ( I have the impression that money paid is the upper limiting factor there) so I now have PAHE room and 

I have now 3 new arch necromancers ( I finally sold Anise as even improved she was still useless) and will start to "respect" them at sub 50. The rest of my NMs break up into two groups those training/being trained(12) and those waiting to be (10) plus the 3 newbies. 20 + Vampires will be next.

 

Recloning works well with most as the line " you will talk to me etc." re-appears, as then does then, the line" I though I told you etc."  and in fact the latter seems to be there always, but once they are 100 respect and well behaved it is ignored. From 65 to 100 takes about 4-6 whippings although the ZBF crop seems far more effective. DWs seem to work very well WRT recloning  but the one failure was a Beth necromance( the Ritual Master) who is now being "trained" by one of her former assistants.

 

I will try your  "getrelationshiprank player" suggestion. I knew of it but never used it as I thought that SLEN measured it. So I will compare both for the hell of it.

Quite honestly despite the wasted time this has been fascinating for me, although that may sound masochistic, but once NonSeen gets his mine worker mod running at near 99% as well, I might be even able to enslave the odd cute bandit./Forsworn instead of just killing them.

 

If you want some fun, kill a mythic lich, or even several (Forelhost had about 7 of them IIRC), collect the corpse(s) and resurrect them in a  bandit camp/vampire den/warlock fort etc and watch the action. Collect the corpses again rinse and repeat. If they win they march off ....?back to Forelhost... I never followed them.

 

BTW Happy 50th Birthday! (purely a guess and do correct me if i am way out of line here)

 

Edited May 14, 2023 by Will55

[Yanderecon69]

I am having a problem where when a slave goes to torture another slave they whip them like once or twice and then freeze no more animations. any help?

[Martok73]

13 hours ago, Will55 said:

Your "info dump" is much appreciated so, "Thank you!"

I have to hand it to your WRT your attention to detail which certainly dwarfs mine.

 

I agree WRT SLEN here as once that is accepted it certainly fits the observations.

 

I just sold 11 (or 12??) slaves at Fellglow ( I have the impression that money paid is the upper limiting factor there) so I now have PAHE room and 

I have now 3 new arch necromancers ( I finally sold Anise as even improved she was still useless) and will start to "respect" them at sub 50. The rest of my NMs break up into two groups those training/being trained(12) and those waiting to be (10) plus the 3 newbies. 20 + Vampires will be next.

 

Recloning works well with most as the line " you will talk to me etc." re-appears, as then does then, the line" I though I told you etc."  and in fact the latter seems to be there always, but once they are 100 respect and well behaved it is ignored. From 65 to 100 takes about 4-6 whippings although the ZBF crop seems far more effective. DWs seem to work very well WRT recloning  but the one failure was a Beth necromance( the Ritual Master) who is now being "trained" by one of her former assistants.

 

I will try your  "getrelationshiprank player" suggestion. I knew of it but never used it as I thought that SLEN measured it. So I will compare both for the hell of it.

Quite honestly despite the wasted time this has been fascinating for me, although that may sound masochistic, but once NonSeen gets his mine worker mod running at near 99% as well, I might be even able to enslave the odd cute bandit./Forsworn instead of just killing them.

 

If you want some fun, kill a mythic lich, or even several (Forelhost had about 7 of them IIRC), collect the corpse(s) and resurrect them in a  bandit camp/vampire den/warlock fort etc and watch the action. Collect the corpses again rinse and repeat. If they win they march off ....?back to Forelhost... I never followed them.

 

BTW Happy 50th Birthday! (purely a guess and do correct me if i am way out of line here)

 

Glad it's finally working out for ya mate, and yea I turn 50 on Wed, how'd ya guess? Was it the 73 in my name that gave it away? LOL. If ya have anymore questions feel free to ask, I'm always here to help out ?

[beetlebug123]

My followers don't seem to take advantage of slaves despite their arousal being above the threshold I set in MCM. Has anyone else had this problem? Other mods that use arousal work such as SOS and SLEN. I have latest versions AYGAS, HSH, and DoM. DoM and its' patches overwrite everything else.

 

 

[jayjay4lust]

Just told a slave to tell her trainer she was done training. Next thing I know she walks up to her trainer and slashes her with a dagger. She did not even have a dagger in her inventory until then!

 

Is this normal?

[Will55]

9 hours ago, jayjay4lust said:

Just told a slave to tell her trainer she was done training. Next thing I know she walks up to her trainer and slashes her with a dagger. She did not even have a dagger in her inventory until then!

 

Is this normal?

The possession of untold articles by  previously stripped and searched slaves never fails to amaze me. 2H/1H weapons/bows/arrows/food/drink./jewelry,/potions etc all appear in their inventory in a locked cell and I suppose it is an offshoot of the armor that keeps re-appearing (and my char keeps pick[pocketing as the only way to remove it and no! The speech line...."strip etc."...does not always work). Or else these women are real "survivalists" who can make out anywhere  

BUT TBH I have never seen anyone actually attack another but then my experience with HSH is limited. However the way that trainers treat the trainees is way worse than  anything my char does to them and I can see plenty of reason for continued smoldering hatred. Do you use DOM?

[Will55]

On 5/15/2023 at 9:26 AM, Martok73 said:

Glad it's finally working out for ya mate, and yea I turn 50 on Wed, how'd ya guess? Was it the 73 in my name that gave it away? LOL. If ya have anymore questions feel free to ask, I'm always here to help out ?

It was a guess only but Happy Birthday! nonetheless..

Thank you fro your attention to detail although it really worried me WRT to following it in detail in game.

So, I tried this as an alternative:

 

Worked out an efficient and so far effective method of gaining 100 respect in slaves already at 100 sub/pose so that collecting them, restraining them and then dumping them somewhere and simply forgetting about them until they are 100 sub/pose will NOT endanger the ability to raise respect to 100.

 

It has one proviso: make a save before you try it on any and all slaves. This is because occasionally it does not work and they disappear from PAHE's MCM but still exist.

This "bug" is quite uncommon if you use the method in the cell already containing the slave. Initially I made the mistake of  moving them from the cell to the cave I had just cleared and used the method there and it failed and I had not saved before as I was unaware of the bug. I still have the 3 slaves who went to HSH and hopefully can return to PAHE later. They simply disappeared from PAHE's MCM but were standing in front of me ready to learn respect.

 

Since then, and within the slave holding cell I have used it 12 times. with  a quick save before each attempt and only once did I need to reload.

 

Simply remove any restraint (you will lose it otherwise), then in the PAHE MCM, reclone the slave. She will appear exactly as before BUT with the re-appearance of the warning speech line about how she should talk to your char. Thereafter the line:"I thought I told you..." will be always present (but can be ignored once she hits 100respect) and 65 to 100 takes 4 whippings (can take <5-10mins) 40-100 5 whippings and today I am going to do a run  of 12 0 respect slaves OOC.

 

This IMHO makes masks redundant and even using HSH training for respect unnecessary(still useful for combat and sex).

The ON\E advantage of the slower HSH training way is that they won't hate you as much that way.

I do not know how most others play but In clearing a difficult dungeon I always enslave, restrain then rape(if possible..not always)  then dump them into the bondage house and get on with the clearing(5 mins at best)

Worrying about their submission level and the necessity of then invoking respect training at the right moment is IMHO an unnecessary strain and a distraction.

The above method was used on 12 slaves: one was captured in the first hour of gameplay and the other 11 were all from the first 20 slaves of the initial 43 MCM page. So you can guess how long they have been at 100sub/pose (3 months RT).

 

The only proviso is : make that save first ,  just in case.

 

No idea if this will be helpful to others and perhaps it is already well known to the PAHE cognoscenti

Edited May 16, 2023 by Will55

[Will55]

I must admit that HSH is strange in my game. In one place I have 20+ Necromancers almost all with +ve SLEN (about a third lovers??? WTH with one rape?), while my 20+ vampires all seem to hate my char despite all having (now) 100 respect and 100 submission and they are not afraid to say so. In fact I have have never heard so many insults before from anyone enemy NPC or -4 SLEN anyone. I was almost tempted to kill several of them who would not shut up, so gags, plugs and black leather addons may shut them up but will make them hate her more. This may well be a result of her whipping so many to 100 respect, but before training became available  that was the ONLY way.

 

The MAIN reason for this post is that I now have 84 HSH slaves and have 16 waiting transfer as the house holding them is already HSH.

I was told that 80 is the maximum but I  still need 16 more slots for my Thalmor slaves.

I will go ahead and begin transfer as soon as I sort out Lake View Manor where 3-4 slaves need to be classified.

But will this damage my game? 

100 slots seems sensible as training is so slow but does anyone actually know the definite maximum?

 

Update:

 

Okay Hit the limit: it is 85 HSH slaves. A pity!

Edited May 17, 2023 by Will55

[MortiferusX]

Other people here who have still the problem, that there is no HSH MCM when running with PAHE 8.2 and DoM 4.6.1?

[kohlteth]

19 hours ago, MortiferusX said:

Other people here who have still the problem, that there is no HSH MCM when running with PAHE 8.2 and DoM 4.6.1?

 Make sure you have the PAHE family ln load order in right order .

 

PAHE

HSH

AYGAS 

DoM goes last and make sure you checked the patches in DoM 

[Martok73]

On 5/16/2023 at 6:31 AM, Will55 said:

It was a guess only but Happy Birthday! nonetheless..

Thank you fro your attention to detail although it really worried me WRT to following it in detail in game.

So, I tried this as an alternative:

 

Worked out an efficient and so far effective method of gaining 100 respect in slaves already at 100 sub/pose so that collecting them, restraining them and then dumping them somewhere and simply forgetting about them until they are 100 sub/pose will NOT endanger the ability to raise respect to 100.

 

It has one proviso: make a save before you try it on any and all slaves. This is because occasionally it does not work and they disappear from PAHE's MCM but still exist.

This "bug" is quite uncommon if you use the method in the cell already containing the slave. Initially I made the mistake of  moving them from the cell to the cave I had just cleared and used the method there and it failed and I had not saved before as I was unaware of the bug. I still have the 3 slaves who went to HSH and hopefully can return to PAHE later. They simply disappeared from PAHE's MCM but were standing in front of me ready to learn respect.

 

Since then, and within the slave holding cell I have used it 12 times. with  a quick save before each attempt and only once did I need to reload.

 

Simply remove any restraint (you will lose it otherwise), then in the PAHE MCM, reclone the slave. She will appear exactly as before BUT with the re-appearance of the warning speech line about how she should talk to your char. Thereafter the line:"I thought I told you..." will be always present (but can be ignored once she hits 100respect) and 65 to 100 takes 4 whippings (can take <5-10mins) 40-100 5 whippings and today I am going to do a run  of 12 0 respect slaves OOC.

 

This IMHO makes masks redundant and even using HSH training for respect unnecessary(still useful for combat and sex).

The ON\E advantage of the slower HSH training way is that they won't hate you as much that way.

I do not know how most others play but In clearing a difficult dungeon I always enslave, restrain then rape(if possible..not always)  then dump them into the bondage house and get on with the clearing(5 mins at best)

Worrying about their submission level and the necessity of then invoking respect training at the right moment is IMHO an unnecessary strain and a distraction.

The above method was used on 12 slaves: one was captured in the first hour of gameplay and the other 11 were all from the first 20 slaves of the initial 43 MCM page. So you can guess how long they have been at 100sub/pose (3 months RT).

 

The only proviso is : make that save first ,  just in case.

 

No idea if this will be helpful to others and perhaps it is already well known to the PAHE cognoscenti

You are very lucky as I have NEVER had a slave in PAHE with 100 sub allow me to train respect above 60ish, the option has always disappeared never to return to the dialog window. I'm so used to the method I mentioned before now, that it has become habit, lol. I also prefer to just train one or maybe two to 100 sub/res, before dropping them off in one of my HSH locations that way anyone I send can be trained and I don't have to do a thing. I like the automation of it while I do other things in game. Kinda a "set it and forget it" thing ya know ?, ?.

 

Either way, I'm glad you found a method that works for you and helps you enjoy the game. Ironically enough I just started a new play through and my character has not touched slavery at all yet. She's done a few quests and leveled up alchemy, enchanting, and smithing getting ready to hit a few quest mods I have that changes things up abit, Destroy the Thieves Guild, and the Enhanced Destroy the Dark Brotherhood. She has a complicated backstory, too much so to go into detail, but I've been having fun with her so far. I've got all the slavery stuff set to require the quest, so whenever I stumble upon the trigger I'll start it, tho I haven't decided if I'm gonna enslave on her yet or not, I might enslave as it is alternative to killing, but with her backstory I might not be able to RP explain it for her. Oh well, we shall see, ?.

 

Thanks for the birthday wishes, turned out to be a great day, wow, 50, all down hill from here ?. Have a good one mate, and I'm here to help as always. "Or at least try to ?"

[jayjay4lust]

On 5/16/2023 at 2:53 AM, Will55 said:

However the way that trainers treat the trainees is way worse than  anything my char does to them and I can see plenty of reason for continued smoldering hatred. Do you use DOM?

Yes, I am also running DOM.

 

To be honest this event was more of a bonus than a problem as it was a lot more immersive. I mean, a slave with a hidden dagger suddenly taking revenge seems like quite a story to tell.

[Will55]

10 hours ago, Martok73 said:

You are very lucky as I have NEVER had a slave in PAHE with 100 sub allow me to train respect above 60ish, the option has always disappeared never to return to the dialog window. I'm so used to the method I mentioned before now, that it has become habit, lol. I also prefer to just train one or maybe two to 100 sub/res, before dropping them off in one of my HSH locations that way anyone I send can be trained and I don't have to do a thing. I like the automation of it while I do other things in game. Kinda a "set it and forget it" thing ya know ?, ?.

 

Either way, I'm glad you found a method that works for you and helps you enjoy the game. Ironically enough I just started a new play through and my character has not touched slavery at all yet. She's done a few quests and leveled up alchemy, enchanting, and smithing getting ready to hit a few quest mods I have that changes things up abit, Destroy the Thieves Guild, and the Enhanced Destroy the Dark Brotherhood. She has a complicated backstory, too much so to go into detail, but I've been having fun with her so far. I've got all the slavery stuff set to require the quest, so whenever I stumble upon the trigger I'll start it, tho I haven't decided if I'm gonna enslave on her yet or not, I might enslave as it is alternative to killing, but with her backstory I might not be able to RP explain it for her. Oh well, we shall see, ?.

 

Thanks for the birthday wishes, turned out to be a great day, wow, 50, all down hill from here ?. Have a good one mate, and I'm here to help as always. "Or at least try to ?"

Thank you for the reply. Glad to see that my guess was not far off and that it all went well.

 

This char also did not take any slaves or hookers until 100 in most skills, but now in having them almost under control (need to train another 12 hookers as well as the leftover (~12) and any new slaves. She has not been able to do most of the Daedric quests because of a lack of slave room but now has space for 60+(Vampires, warlocks,witches, thalmor, female falmer).

 

For the last 2 days my char has done nothing in SSE but push every slave to 100 respect by my method and 0 respect just means 2 extra whippings (to get to 65). In the HSH cellars I have ongoing training of some 30 slaves by trainers, while the rest of the slaves are manually "respected"( I would not resist that one) and out of the latter group only one in ~40 had to be twice recloned.

If you are going to destroy the thieves guild then join first to access the 3 or 4 master trainers(will need to do the first 2 tasks I am sorry to say) then let Goldenglow hang. As long as you stay away from Mercer no none seems to care. WRT the DB by the time my chars usually get there they no longer need Alchemy or LA training.  TBH I should be ashamed to admit that my current char has gained 2  1H points from using the whip.(at least, she hit 2 levels while doing so but there was a lot of combat in between).

 

BTW the vampires that hated my char (-4 SLEN) after the 100 respect beatings are all now +4SLEN. I guess reflection over time showed that there could no longer be an excuse to beat them and now they are so happy. Still cop the snide "Watch it!" from haughty Thalmor 100 respect slaves but I will see if this continues once time has elapsed as they were all -3 SLEN at the end of the whipping then reward cycle.

 

TBH this has been so interesting for me although my char's main game has been in stasis and her hookers at Braidwood must be wondering WTH.

[Will55]

9 hours ago, jayjay4lust said:

Yes, I am also running DOM.

 

To be honest this event was more of a bonus than a problem as it was a lot more immersive. I mean, a slave with a hidden dagger suddenly taking revenge seems like quite a story to tell.

Ahh You immersion lovers! The bane of us realists. 

Seriously though the gear bug is a bit of a joke. I have a chest full of pickpocketed (from slaves) Tabola armor as a lot of it looks quite tasty on female slaves and I use it to equip my guard slaves (melee and magic...plenty of ebony armor from the vampires). So while it is a nuisance I would never want to see it "fixed".

 

Historically IF one slave lifted a hand or weapon to a trainer, that slave and ALL of her training group were executed on the spot. If a slave did so to a master EVERY slave in that household was executed, man , woman and child and it mattered not if the master was even hit, hurt or killed. Later on this was damped down and it had to be an actual attack on the person not just  a brandishing of a weapon or fist..That was under Roman law, but the barbarian hordes, especially the islamic ones reverted to the original rules. 

[MortiferusX]

20 hours ago, kohlteth said:

 Make sure you have the PAHE family ln load order in right order .

 

PAHE

HSH

AYGAS 

DoM goes last and make sure you checked the patches in DoM 

 

Paradise_halls.esm 79

Paradise_halls_farengars study 81

paradise halls SLExtension 146

HomeSweetHome 229

Pahe Laveview Manor

fellgow slavecamp 256

ub_pahe 287

Pahe TDF 406

DOMAYGAS 410

DOMHSH 411

Pahe ASLAL 414

 

does not work

Edited May 19, 2023 by MortiferusX

[DonQuiWho]

4 hours ago, MortiferusX said:

 

Paradise_halls.esm 79

Paradise_halls_farengars study 81

paradise halls SLExtension 146

HomeSweetHome 229

Pahe Laveview Manor

fellgow slavecamp 256

ub_pahe 287

Pahe TDF 406

DOMAYGAS 410

DOMHSH 411

Pahe ASLAL 414

 

does not work

 

IIRC, patch application depends on which version of DOM you are using. 

 

For the later ones, I think, the HSH etc patches should NOT be included/applied.  Should read back up the threads to check