Kimy Posted March 14, 2016 Posted March 14, 2016 Simplifying MCMs and moving some settings to inis or jsons, storing some data in jcontainers instead of properties, that will probably help. As I tried to point out earlier, this would mean a substantial rewrite of the functionality in question. Unfortunately it's also counterintuitive to established modding practices. All the time we were creating mods under the "Ini files = bad, MCM = good" paradigm. MCM is much more user friendly, so that's what users preferred. Funnily enough my mod can write the entire MCM configuration to json already, but I don't think I could ask the average user to edit the JSon instead of playing with self-explaining MCM toggles. It's just not practical. In all honestly I doubt that modding practices will change at all with the new info in mind. It's simply too late for that and some of the measures would mean a massive loss of convenience anyway, people are not prepared for. Trying to hack the EXE via SKSE might be the more promising approach tbh. If it can be done without breaking stuff. I have no clue.
Centrophy Posted March 14, 2016 Posted March 14, 2016 Can you provide a link to that thread please. I found a thread on the step forum started by darklynx but can't find the skse thread. http://forum.step-project.com/topic/9683-i-found-a-new-bug-or-maybe-is-a-not-solvable-old-one-in-the-save-files/ He posted in January, seems he figured it out before us. http://forums.bethsoft.com/topic/1568922-wipz-skyrim-script-extender-skse/ Post #19. Still no responses to that one.
Earen Posted March 15, 2016 Posted March 15, 2016 I believe that while reducing amount of scripts, properties is a good way, no one will waste lifetime on that. Patching TESV binary is better option imho. One caveat possible - the strings stored in large section (array) and it seems that save file format uses string index (16-bit value) everywhere to reference the strings. 'Everywhere' is property names, values of strings properties, string arrays and etc. That would mean that to patch binary need to change not just two locations (the ones that read and write string counter), but in plenty of places. That would mean change format of every structure which references a string. Btw one of the ways to reduce amount of property name strings is write a tool which will rename properties into something meaningless, highly reusable. It had to be able to update ESP property names too [Edit] True. Save file format use uint16 everywhere to reference strings. Just opened http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Tes5Mod:Save_File_Format/Papyrus and saw that uint16 referenced 54 times, most of them are string references [Edit] I didn't say that it's impossible, but it may turn out that 16-bit variable might be something fundamental that is used across Papyrus VM
chipstick Posted March 15, 2016 Posted March 15, 2016 I had posted a thread linking back to this in the skyrim general forum just to increase awareness of this issue, but it took iroha and malile's posts to remind me that I didn't even post here just to say thank you to everyone for raising and isolating the issue. So... Thank you. To markdf, vyper00 and everyone who's contributed to this. I appreciate it greatly. ı cant seem to find ur post on bethforums could u provide link plz and thanks for making others aware of this issue everyone we need to make this issue reach the devs of skyrim and maybe reach skyrim youtubers to make it visible more what do you guyz think? I didn't post it to the bethforums, just to the skyrim general discussion section here on loverslab - its near the bottom of the front page atm. Didn't think that the issue would get sufficient visibility here (and probably not on the general discussion forum here either, so probably didn't do too much good unfortunately).
Monoman1 Posted March 15, 2016 Posted March 15, 2016 I believe that while reducing amount of scripts, properties is a good way, no one will waste lifetime on that. Patching TESV binary is better option imho. One caveat possible - the strings stored in large section (array) and it seems that save file format uses string index (16-bit value) everywhere to reference the strings. 'Everywhere' is property names, values of strings properties, string arrays and etc. That would mean that to patch binary need to change not just two locations (the ones that read and write string counter), but in plenty of places. That would mean change format of every structure which references a string. Btw one of the ways to reduce amount of property name strings is write a tool which will rename properties into something meaningless, highly reusable. It had to be able to update ESP property names too [Edit] True. Save file format use uint16 everywhere to reference strings. Just opened http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Tes5Mod:Save_File_Format/Papyrus and saw that uint16 referenced 54 times, most of them are string references [Edit] I didn't say that it's impossible, but it may turn out that 16-bit variable might be something fundamental that is used across Papyrus VM I'm no expert but I don't think all 16 bit fields would need to be changed. There are some 8 bit fields in there which look appropriate. Like array type, it's unlikely there'll ever be more than 256 types of arrays. Hell, save file version is 16 bit. But it's very unclear what most of the fields actually do on the uespwiki page, 16 bits for the rest of them might be no problem at all. Patching the binary is of course the silver bullet we need here but that takes talented people with very specific skills and interest in the subject matter. I fear that until one of these people experience this corruption themselves there will be little progress on that Another suggestion: How difficult would it be to migrate from using strings to arrays for animation declarations? eg: AnimationX[0] = stage 1 AnimationX[1] = stage 2 AnimationX[2] = stage 3 . . etc Would this result in one string per animation (n) instead of n * number of stages? Of course I'm not an animator so it's easy for me to say this but it looks like a quick saving of strings to me but I don't know what work would be involved. I have 6800 arrays in a heavy save but array count is a 32 bit integer so it looks underutilized. Hi Beth, 1988 called, they want the Sega genesis you used in the save file back
Earen Posted March 15, 2016 Posted March 15, 2016 I believe that while reducing amount of scripts, properties is a good way, no one will waste lifetime on that. Patching TESV binary is better option imho. One caveat possible - the strings stored in large section (array) and it seems that save file format uses string index (16-bit value) everywhere to reference the strings. 'Everywhere' is property names, values of strings properties, string arrays and etc. That would mean that to patch binary need to change not just two locations (the ones that read and write string counter), but in plenty of places. That would mean change format of every structure which references a string. Btw one of the ways to reduce amount of property name strings is write a tool which will rename properties into something meaningless, highly reusable. It had to be able to update ESP property names too [Edit] True. Save file format use uint16 everywhere to reference strings. Just opened http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Tes5Mod:Save_File_Format/Papyrus and saw that uint16 referenced 54 times, most of them are string references [Edit] I didn't say that it's impossible, but it may turn out that 16-bit variable might be something fundamental that is used across Papyrus VM I'm no expert but I don't think all 16 bit fields would need to be changed. There are some 8 bit fields in there which look appropriate. Like array type, it's unlikely there'll ever be more than 256 types of arrays. Hell, save file version is 16 bit. But it's very unclear what most of the fields actually do on the uespwiki page, 16 bits for the rest of them might be no problem at all. Patching the binary is of course the silver bullet we need here but that takes talented people with very specific skills and interest in the subject matter. I fear that until one of these people experience this corruption themselves there will be little progress on that Another suggestion: How difficult would it be to migrate from using strings to arrays for animation declarations? eg: AnimationX[0] = stage 1 AnimationX[1] = stage 2 AnimationX[2] = stage 3 . . etc Would this result in one string per animation (n) instead of n * number of stages? Of course I'm not an animator so it's easy for me to say this but it looks like a quick saving of strings to me but I don't know what work would be involved. I have 6800 arrays in a heavy save but array count is a 32 bit integer so it looks underutilized. Hi Beth, 1988 called, they want the Sega genesis you used in the save file back > I fear that until one of these people experience this corruption themselves there will be little progress on that Hehe, we need to enforce corruption on their saves somehow. Eh, I don't know. Moving strings into Papyrus arrays won't reduce overall amount of strings, even if Papyrus' array element length is under-utilized. Because Pap. array references a string located in global, per-save array (not Papyrus array) Ofc. this can be solved by storing data not-in-papyrus, using JC or PU, but from what I saw average modder will likely create monster script containing 10K lines of code, rather than will ever look at special tools.
Nepro Posted March 15, 2016 Posted March 15, 2016 I want to thank whoever posted here about resting animation registry. This really fixed for me non-loadable saves which would crash Skyrim to desktop. After enabling new mod or animations in MCM by simply resting animation registry in SexLab MCM helps make saves stable and being able to load them. My load order is below just for your reference. Active Mod Files: 00 Skyrim.esm 01 Update.esm 02 Dawnguard.esm 03 HearthFires.esm 04 Dragonborn.esm 05 Unofficial Skyrim Legendary Edition Patch.esp [Version 3.0.2b] 06 ApachiiHairFemales.esm 07 ApachiiHair.esm 08 BeeingFemale.esm [Version 2.7] 09 SexLab.esm [Version 1.61] 0A SexLabAroused.esm [Version 2.6] 0B Devious Devices - Assets.esm [Version 2.8.3] 0C Campfire.esm 0D ZaZAnimationPack.esm 0E Devious Devices - Integration.esm 0F CompanionArissa.esm 10 notice board.esp 11 daymoyl.esm 12 Devious Devices - Expansion.esm 13 MagicDuelReborn.esm 14 ReadBooksAloud.esm 15 Schlongs of Skyrim - Core.esm 16 CreatureFramework.esm [Version 1.0.0] 17 Master of Disguise - Legendary.esm 18 BDHoodieSchlong.esp 19 TouringCarriages.esp 1A Cutting Room Floor.esp [Version 2.0.1] 1B FISS.esp 1C UIExtensions.esp 1D AddItemMenu.esp 1E ArgonianGags.esp [Version 1.2] 1F RaceMenu.esp 20 RaceMenuPlugin.esp 21 RaceMenuMorphsCBBE.esp 22 12FemaleBrows.esp 23 BeeingFemaleBasicAddOn.esp 24 College of Winterhold Entry Requirements.esp 25 VioLens.esp [Version 2.11] 26 CombatDramaOverhaul.esp 27 SimplyKnock.esp 28 Skyrim_Strap_Ons.esp 29 SexLabDefeat.esp 2A Crime Overhaul.esp 2B Devious Devices For Him.esp 2C FNIS.esp 2D FollowersPickEquipment.esp 2E Get Out Of My Way.esp 2F HeartBreaker.esp [Version 3.3] 30 JZBai_Hidespots.esp ++ dD-Increase Fall Damage.esp 31 Lock Overhaul.esp 32 LockDoorsWithKeys.esp 33 LootandDegradation.esp ++ PrisonerRagsForFemales.esp 34 PumpingIron.esp ++ Proper Aiming.esp 35 SkyUI.esp 36 SkyTweak.esp 37 SLAnimLoader.esp 38 SLALAnimObj.esp 39 SOS - Smurf Average Addon.esp 3A SOS - VectorPlexus Muscular Addon.esp 3B Supreme Fog.esp 3C suspiciouscityguards.esp 3D SexLab TDF Aggressive Prostitution.esp 3E UnderPants.esp 3F TKDodge.esp 40 JZBai_ThrowingWpnsLite.esp 41 Dr_ItemBones.esp 42 Guard Dialogue Overhaul.esp 43 Weapons & Armor Fixes_Remade.esp 44 Daedric Dawnbreaker.esp 45 HireServants.esp 46 3DNPC.esp [Version 3.18] 47 Tes Arena - Skyrim Frontier Fortress.esp 48 Clothing & Clutter Fixes.esp 49 Complete Crafting Overhaul_Remade.esp 4A EstrusChaurus.esp 4B EstrusSpider.esp 4C WetandCold.esp 4D WetandCold - Ashes.esp 4E ReadBooksAloud - Skyrim + 3 DLC's.esp 4F WARZONES - Civil Unrest.esp 50 WARZONES - DLC - Assault Attack.esp 51 Rebirth Monster.esp 52 Skyrim Immersive Creatures.esp [Version v6.5.2b] 53 Helgen Reborn.esp [Version 105.3] 54 rorikstead_merchant.esp 55 Civil War Overhaul.esp 56 HDT Havok Object.esp 57 Skyrim Immersive Creatures - DLC2.esp [Version v6.5.2a] 58 Hothtrooper44_ArmorCompilation.esp 59 UltimateCombat.esp 5A Mortal Enemies.esp 5B Mortal Enemies - SIC.esp [Version v6.5.2a] 5C Mortal Enemies - SIC DLC2.esp [Version v6.5.2a] 5D XPMSE.esp 5E dd-Body Physics Merged.esp 5F Dragon Combat Overhaul.esp 60 LocalizedGuildJobs.esp 61 Thieves Guild Requirements.esp 62 ThievesGuildReq_LocalizedGuildJobs_Patch.esp 63 NPS_Female.esp 64 NPS_Female_HearthFires.esp 65 Disparity.esp [Version 2.1] 66 DeadlyMutilation.esp 67 FireAndIceOverhaul.esp 68 FGT.esp 69 AmazingFollowerTweaks.esp 6A MultiMarriage_JAMCE.esp 6B Immersive Weapons.esp 6C WarmongerArmory_Vanilla.esp 6D WarmongerArmory_DLC.esp 6E WarmongerArmory_LeveledList.esp 6F CommonClothes.esp [Version 98] 70 One With Nature - DG+DB.esp 71 Inconsequential NPCs.esp 72 The Honored Dead.esp 73 notice board - dragonborn patch.esp 74 sanguinesDebauchery.esp 75 WhitBBM.esp [Version 1.6.] 76 SkyrimSewers.esp [Version 4.11] 77 SexLabSkoomaWhore.esp 78 SimpleSlavery.esp 79 Bring Out Your Dead - Legendary Edition.esp [Version 3.0] 7A Dynamic Dialogue Followers.esp 7B Skooming Skyrim by BigBizkit.esp 7C CerwidenCompanion.esp 7D GriptzionTeleportMenuSpell.esp 7E KhalSpellmakingMod.esp 7F Dagon's Legions - Dremora Overhaul.esp 80 SexLab-AmorousAdventures.esp 81 Wynter.esp 82 Frostfall.esp 83 Storefront.esp [Version 1.0.7] 84 Schlongs of Skyrim.esp 85 CUYC_CleanUpYourCorpses.esp 86 SBF All In One + DLC.esp 87 Provincial Courier Service.esp [Version 1.2.5] 88 TimingIsEverything.esp 89 SexLab_Dialogues.esp 8A Horsemen.esp 8B Prison.esp 8C daymoyl_DawnguardAddon.esp 8D Replace Your Criminal Face.esp [Version 1.5] 8E SexLab Romance.esp 8F SLSW Addicted.esp 90 DeadlyDragons.esp 91 WeaponsArmorFixes_ImmersiveWeapons_Patch.esp 92 TrueDeathBasic.esp 93 NPO Module - Crossbows.esp 94 Faction Crossbows.esp [Version 1.2.1WAFR] 95 Destructible_bottles.esp 96 Brigandage.esp [Version 4] 97 OMageCommonRobesV2.esp 98 WARZONES - DLC - Assault Attack + Helgen Reborn - Compatibility.esp 99 KhajiitHearthfire.esp 9A SexLabWerewolves.esp 9B SexLabWerewolvesMB.esp 9C WerewolfMastery.esp 9D MF_RadiantProstitution.esp 9E umana.esp 9F mslVampiricThirst.esp A0 BloodthirstVampireFeeding.esp A1 Cyrodillic Artifacts.esp A2 The Paarthurnax Dilemma.esp [Version 1.2.9] A3 Vampirelordroyal.esp A4 Frontier Fortress Notice Boards.esp A5 Gildergreen Regrown.esp [Version 1.2.6] A6 notice board - open cities patch.esp A7 Equipping Overhaul.esp A8 vMYC_MeetYourCharacters.esp A9 RosaFollower.esp AA pchs_loansharks.esp AB iHUD.esp AC Horsemen Combat Enhancement.esp AD SlaveTats.esp AE MyLydia.esp AF Moniko.esp B0 Aeril.esp B1 amk Border Lace Lingerie.esp B2 Devious Deviants.esp B3 Worlds Dawn.esp B4 SDpatch - frostfall.esp B5 ViewableFactionRanksBothDLC.esp B6 HDT Piercingsets.esp B7 Hikari.esp ++ moveitLWT.esp B8 RavenBeakPrisonAddon.esp B9 Royal Bloodline & Vampiric Thirst Patch.esp BA Rebirth Monster - SIC Patch.esp BB Sycos Beautiful NPC - Aela The Huntress.esp BC Guard's don't change outfits.esp ++ Faction Crossbows NPO CCOR LL Patch.esp [Version 1.2.1WAFR] BD Extended UI.esp [Version 1.2.0d] BE Predator Vision.esp BF SOS - Pubic Hair for Females Addon.esp C0 SOS Female Schlongifier (No Schlong Addon by Erundil).esp C1 Appropriately Attired Jarls Redux.esp C2 SPTDiverseGuardsSkyrim.esp [Version 4.9b] C3 Populated Skyrim Prisons Cells.esp C4 Chesko_Step418_SN.esp C5 LoreContinuityFixes_1.0.esp C6 Sleeved Guards.esp C7 MLU.esp C8 Morrowlootification.esp C9 MLA_ArgonianArmoury.esp CA MLA_BosmerArmoury.esp CB MLA_DunmerArmoury.esp CC MLA_RedguardArmoury.esp CD MLA_KhajitArmoury.esp CE Cultural Diversity Merger.esp CF 3DNPC - Cultural Diversity Merged Patch.esp D0 MLU - IA + CWO.esp D1 MLU - Heart Breaker.esp D2 MLU - Ordinator.esp D3 Ordinator - Perks of Skyrim.esp D4 MLU - No Combat Boundaries.esp D5 Sneak Tools.esp D6 Sneak Tools Vanilla Hoods.esp D7 Sneak Tools Vanilla Masks.esp D8 CCO_SIC_Patch.esp D9 Open Cities Skyrim.esp [Version 2.0.0] DA Alternate Start - Live Another Life.esp [Version 3.1.2] DB Master of Disguise Patches + NARC.esp DC OCS - 3DNPC.esp DD OCS - Inconsequential NPCs Patch.esp DE KhajiitSpeak Merge.esp DF TES5 Edit Patch.esp ++ KhajiitEarShow.esp E0 Scarcity - Less Loot Mod.esp ++ Scarcity - 10x Loot Rarity.esp E1 Bashed Patch, 0.esp E2 MorrowlootifiedPatch.esp E3 TrueStorms.esp E4 mintylightningmod.esp E5 RealisticWaterTwo.esp E6 RealisticWaterTwo - Legendary.esp E7 EnhancedLightsandFX.esp E8 ELFX - Exteriors.esp E9 ELFXEnhancer.esp EA OCS + Skyrim Sewers.esp [Version 1.0.7] EB Warburg's 3D Paper World Map - Texture 1.esp EC warburg's 3d paper world map - dawnguard.esp ED Warburg's 3D Paper World Map - Dragonborn.esp
Monoman1 Posted March 15, 2016 Posted March 15, 2016 I want to thank whoever posted here about resting animation registry. This really fixed for me non-loadable saves which would crash Skyrim to desktop. After enabling new mod or animations in MCM by simply resting animation registry in SexLab MCM helps make saves stable and being able to load them. My load order is below just for your reference. Active Mod Files: 00 Skyrim.esm 01 Update.esm 02 Dawnguard.esm 03 HearthFires.esm 04 Dragonborn.esm 05 Unofficial Skyrim Legendary Edition Patch.esp [Version 3.0.2b] 06 ApachiiHairFemales.esm 07 ApachiiHair.esm 08 BeeingFemale.esm [Version 2.7] 09 SexLab.esm [Version 1.61] 0A SexLabAroused.esm [Version 2.6] 0B Devious Devices - Assets.esm [Version 2.8.3] 0C Campfire.esm 0D ZaZAnimationPack.esm 0E Devious Devices - Integration.esm 0F CompanionArissa.esm 10 notice board.esp 11 daymoyl.esm 12 Devious Devices - Expansion.esm 13 MagicDuelReborn.esm 14 ReadBooksAloud.esm 15 Schlongs of Skyrim - Core.esm 16 CreatureFramework.esm [Version 1.0.0] 17 Master of Disguise - Legendary.esm 18 BDHoodieSchlong.esp 19 TouringCarriages.esp 1A Cutting Room Floor.esp [Version 2.0.1] 1B FISS.esp 1C UIExtensions.esp 1D AddItemMenu.esp 1E ArgonianGags.esp [Version 1.2] 1F RaceMenu.esp 20 RaceMenuPlugin.esp 21 RaceMenuMorphsCBBE.esp 22 12FemaleBrows.esp 23 BeeingFemaleBasicAddOn.esp 24 College of Winterhold Entry Requirements.esp 25 VioLens.esp [Version 2.11] 26 CombatDramaOverhaul.esp 27 SimplyKnock.esp 28 Skyrim_Strap_Ons.esp 29 SexLabDefeat.esp 2A Crime Overhaul.esp 2B Devious Devices For Him.esp 2C FNIS.esp 2D FollowersPickEquipment.esp 2E Get Out Of My Way.esp 2F HeartBreaker.esp [Version 3.3] 30 JZBai_Hidespots.esp ++ dD-Increase Fall Damage.esp 31 Lock Overhaul.esp 32 LockDoorsWithKeys.esp 33 LootandDegradation.esp ++ PrisonerRagsForFemales.esp 34 PumpingIron.esp ++ Proper Aiming.esp 35 SkyUI.esp 36 SkyTweak.esp 37 SLAnimLoader.esp 38 SLALAnimObj.esp 39 SOS - Smurf Average Addon.esp 3A SOS - VectorPlexus Muscular Addon.esp 3B Supreme Fog.esp 3C suspiciouscityguards.esp 3D SexLab TDF Aggressive Prostitution.esp 3E UnderPants.esp 3F TKDodge.esp 40 JZBai_ThrowingWpnsLite.esp 41 Dr_ItemBones.esp 42 Guard Dialogue Overhaul.esp 43 Weapons & Armor Fixes_Remade.esp 44 Daedric Dawnbreaker.esp 45 HireServants.esp 46 3DNPC.esp [Version 3.18] 47 Tes Arena - Skyrim Frontier Fortress.esp 48 Clothing & Clutter Fixes.esp 49 Complete Crafting Overhaul_Remade.esp 4A EstrusChaurus.esp 4B EstrusSpider.esp 4C WetandCold.esp 4D WetandCold - Ashes.esp 4E ReadBooksAloud - Skyrim + 3 DLC's.esp 4F WARZONES - Civil Unrest.esp 50 WARZONES - DLC - Assault Attack.esp 51 Rebirth Monster.esp 52 Skyrim Immersive Creatures.esp [Version v6.5.2b] 53 Helgen Reborn.esp [Version 105.3] 54 rorikstead_merchant.esp 55 Civil War Overhaul.esp 56 HDT Havok Object.esp 57 Skyrim Immersive Creatures - DLC2.esp [Version v6.5.2a] 58 Hothtrooper44_ArmorCompilation.esp 59 UltimateCombat.esp 5A Mortal Enemies.esp 5B Mortal Enemies - SIC.esp [Version v6.5.2a] 5C Mortal Enemies - SIC DLC2.esp [Version v6.5.2a] 5D XPMSE.esp 5E dd-Body Physics Merged.esp 5F Dragon Combat Overhaul.esp 60 LocalizedGuildJobs.esp 61 Thieves Guild Requirements.esp 62 ThievesGuildReq_LocalizedGuildJobs_Patch.esp 63 NPS_Female.esp 64 NPS_Female_HearthFires.esp 65 Disparity.esp [Version 2.1] 66 DeadlyMutilation.esp 67 FireAndIceOverhaul.esp 68 FGT.esp 69 AmazingFollowerTweaks.esp 6A MultiMarriage_JAMCE.esp 6B Immersive Weapons.esp 6C WarmongerArmory_Vanilla.esp 6D WarmongerArmory_DLC.esp 6E WarmongerArmory_LeveledList.esp 6F CommonClothes.esp [Version 98] 70 One With Nature - DG+DB.esp 71 Inconsequential NPCs.esp 72 The Honored Dead.esp 73 notice board - dragonborn patch.esp 74 sanguinesDebauchery.esp 75 WhitBBM.esp [Version 1.6.] 76 SkyrimSewers.esp [Version 4.11] 77 SexLabSkoomaWhore.esp 78 SimpleSlavery.esp 79 Bring Out Your Dead - Legendary Edition.esp [Version 3.0] 7A Dynamic Dialogue Followers.esp 7B Skooming Skyrim by BigBizkit.esp 7C CerwidenCompanion.esp 7D GriptzionTeleportMenuSpell.esp 7E KhalSpellmakingMod.esp 7F Dagon's Legions - Dremora Overhaul.esp 80 SexLab-AmorousAdventures.esp 81 Wynter.esp 82 Frostfall.esp 83 Storefront.esp [Version 1.0.7] 84 Schlongs of Skyrim.esp 85 CUYC_CleanUpYourCorpses.esp 86 SBF All In One + DLC.esp 87 Provincial Courier Service.esp [Version 1.2.5] 88 TimingIsEverything.esp 89 SexLab_Dialogues.esp 8A Horsemen.esp 8B Prison.esp 8C daymoyl_DawnguardAddon.esp 8D Replace Your Criminal Face.esp [Version 1.5] 8E SexLab Romance.esp 8F SLSW Addicted.esp 90 DeadlyDragons.esp 91 WeaponsArmorFixes_ImmersiveWeapons_Patch.esp 92 TrueDeathBasic.esp 93 NPO Module - Crossbows.esp 94 Faction Crossbows.esp [Version 1.2.1WAFR] 95 Destructible_bottles.esp 96 Brigandage.esp [Version 4] 97 OMageCommonRobesV2.esp 98 WARZONES - DLC - Assault Attack + Helgen Reborn - Compatibility.esp 99 KhajiitHearthfire.esp 9A SexLabWerewolves.esp 9B SexLabWerewolvesMB.esp 9C WerewolfMastery.esp 9D MF_RadiantProstitution.esp 9E umana.esp 9F mslVampiricThirst.esp A0 BloodthirstVampireFeeding.esp A1 Cyrodillic Artifacts.esp A2 The Paarthurnax Dilemma.esp [Version 1.2.9] A3 Vampirelordroyal.esp A4 Frontier Fortress Notice Boards.esp A5 Gildergreen Regrown.esp [Version 1.2.6] A6 notice board - open cities patch.esp A7 Equipping Overhaul.esp A8 vMYC_MeetYourCharacters.esp A9 RosaFollower.esp AA pchs_loansharks.esp AB iHUD.esp AC Horsemen Combat Enhancement.esp AD SlaveTats.esp AE MyLydia.esp AF Moniko.esp B0 Aeril.esp B1 amk Border Lace Lingerie.esp B2 Devious Deviants.esp B3 Worlds Dawn.esp B4 SDpatch - frostfall.esp B5 ViewableFactionRanksBothDLC.esp B6 HDT Piercingsets.esp B7 Hikari.esp ++ moveitLWT.esp B8 RavenBeakPrisonAddon.esp B9 Royal Bloodline & Vampiric Thirst Patch.esp BA Rebirth Monster - SIC Patch.esp BB Sycos Beautiful NPC - Aela The Huntress.esp BC Guard's don't change outfits.esp ++ Faction Crossbows NPO CCOR LL Patch.esp [Version 1.2.1WAFR] BD Extended UI.esp [Version 1.2.0d] BE Predator Vision.esp BF SOS - Pubic Hair for Females Addon.esp C0 SOS Female Schlongifier (No Schlong Addon by Erundil).esp C1 Appropriately Attired Jarls Redux.esp C2 SPTDiverseGuardsSkyrim.esp [Version 4.9b] C3 Populated Skyrim Prisons Cells.esp C4 Chesko_Step418_SN.esp C5 LoreContinuityFixes_1.0.esp C6 Sleeved Guards.esp C7 MLU.esp C8 Morrowlootification.esp C9 MLA_ArgonianArmoury.esp CA MLA_BosmerArmoury.esp CB MLA_DunmerArmoury.esp CC MLA_RedguardArmoury.esp CD MLA_KhajitArmoury.esp CE Cultural Diversity Merger.esp CF 3DNPC - Cultural Diversity Merged Patch.esp D0 MLU - IA + CWO.esp D1 MLU - Heart Breaker.esp D2 MLU - Ordinator.esp D3 Ordinator - Perks of Skyrim.esp D4 MLU - No Combat Boundaries.esp D5 Sneak Tools.esp D6 Sneak Tools Vanilla Hoods.esp D7 Sneak Tools Vanilla Masks.esp D8 CCO_SIC_Patch.esp D9 Open Cities Skyrim.esp [Version 2.0.0] DA Alternate Start - Live Another Life.esp [Version 3.1.2] DB Master of Disguise Patches + NARC.esp DC OCS - 3DNPC.esp DD OCS - Inconsequential NPCs Patch.esp DE KhajiitSpeak Merge.esp DF TES5 Edit Patch.esp ++ KhajiitEarShow.esp E0 Scarcity - Less Loot Mod.esp ++ Scarcity - 10x Loot Rarity.esp E1 Bashed Patch, 0.esp E2 MorrowlootifiedPatch.esp E3 TrueStorms.esp E4 mintylightningmod.esp E5 RealisticWaterTwo.esp E6 RealisticWaterTwo - Legendary.esp E7 EnhancedLightsandFX.esp E8 ELFX - Exteriors.esp E9 ELFXEnhancer.esp EA OCS + Skyrim Sewers.esp [Version 1.0.7] EB Warburg's 3D Paper World Map - Texture 1.esp EC warburg's 3d paper world map - dawnguard.esp ED Warburg's 3D Paper World Map - Dragonborn.esp Did you forgot to re-enable creature animations? I'm guessing that will send your save over the edge again.
MoreForMe Posted March 15, 2016 Posted March 15, 2016 I think that there is upper 'safe' limit of scripts which can be saved in the save file once this limit is hit - things become corrupted. I've been having the same issues described in this thread. I uninstalled just a few mods like Estrus and Bathing Beauties Luxury Suite and problems with corrupted saves and crashes when the game was loading went away. Also I don't think the issues are related to a number of SL registered animations. PS.: Feel free to post comments about unstable mods here: http://www.loverslab.com/topic/59328-the-list-of-problematicunstable-adult-mods/
Monoman1 Posted March 15, 2016 Posted March 15, 2016 I think that there is upper 'safe' limit of scripts which can be saved in the save file once this limit is hit - things become corrupted. I've been having the same issues described in this thread. I uninstalled just a few mods like Estrus and Bathing Beauties Luxury Suite and problems with corrupted saves and crashes when the game was loading went away. Also I don't think the issues are related to a number of SL registered animations. PS.: Feel free to post comments about unstable mods here: http://www.loverslab.com/topic/59328-the-list-of-problematicunstable-adult-mods/ Read this thread from post 74 and on. This save corruption has been linked to a condition where strcount exceeds a maximum of 0xFFFF. We really need to change the original post as it has become confusing for newcomers.
MoreForMe Posted March 15, 2016 Posted March 15, 2016 I think that there is upper 'safe' limit of scripts which can be saved in the save file once this limit is hit - things become corrupted. I've been having the same issues described in this thread. I uninstalled just a few mods like Estrus and Bathing Beauties Luxury Suite and problems with corrupted saves and crashes when the game was loading went away. Also I don't think the issues are related to a number of SL registered animations. PS.: Feel free to post comments about unstable mods here: http://www.loverslab.com/topic/59328-the-list-of-problematicunstable-adult-mods/ Read this thread from post 74 and on. This save corruption has been linked to a condition where strcount exceeds a maximum of 0xFFFF. We really need to change the original post as it has become confusing for newcomers. I've read them before but I havn't found a particular post stating it's not linked to the number of animations...
merryMalfunctioning Posted March 15, 2016 Author Posted March 15, 2016 I've read them before but I havn't found a particular post stating it's not linked to the number of animations... Every SL animation adds to the string count, around 12 strings per animation. That adds up really fast when you start using SLAL or enabling creature animations.
Iroha Posted March 16, 2016 Posted March 16, 2016 I've read them before but I havn't found a particular post stating it's not linked to the number of animations... Every SL animation adds to the string count, around 12 strings per animation. That adds up really fast when you start using SLAL or enabling creature animations. So why you still did not update OP? More clarity - less offtop & more useful knowledge for modders and users....
gravit Posted March 16, 2016 Posted March 16, 2016 Good news for those that want to try and save their savegames, it looks like you can trim down the string count again. I ran the following and got these script counts: New Game 56202 without Interesting NPCs Quit, Activate mod 59514 with Interesting NPCs Quit, Deactivated mod (in load order only) 57090 Interesting NPCs removed Quit, Cleaned savegame, loaded ingame, saved again 56435 Cleaned It's a net loss of 233 script spaces HOWEVER when I first reloaded the savegame a few more mods initialized (should have done this before installing 3DNPC honestly but whoops). Accounting for this (thanks to the fantastic work of malilie earlier in this thread, we know 3DNPC uses 3203 slots while the difference between steps 1 and 2 when it was added here are 3312, so I'm guessing of those 233 difference 109 are non-3DNPC scripts that were only initialized on the first reload) , the actual loss may be insubstantial. I don't know how this will affect other mods, or savegames that have been running for longer than a minute or so, but it's worth an attempt if you're attached to your current game. Edit: Managed to cut 26 hour savegame from 65k to 59k by removing 3DNPC, Campfire, Falskaar and Helgen Reborn, will give it a shake and see if it sticks. I can also report Immersive Citizens uses 261. Slaverun Reloaded - 1475 (with Deadly Mutilation / Branding Device soft requirements)
merryMalfunctioning Posted March 16, 2016 Author Posted March 16, 2016 I update the original post. If anyone has any particular information that you feel should be there, please let me know! :-)
Centrophy Posted March 16, 2016 Posted March 16, 2016 Since we aren't sure if a fix is even doable... I think we should shoot for testing new saves in new setups to see if we can come to an agreement on a maximum number of strings to start with. I have tested STEP: Extended. In the start in Helgen after following Ralof into the keep, the string count is at 32,030. That seems extremely high for a starting game with just the basic mods that are loaded as part of that. I would imagine it easily rising 10-15k in 20 hours. With a 10k rise it would go up to 42,030. With 15k it goes up to 47,030. I'm unsure if it rises above that but I think that a 15k rise in strings after 20 hours is a fairly decent estimate. With that in mind I would think that a good starting point for a somewhat stable game is sub 50k strings at start. My main install without any SexLab/adult mods is at 41k strings. With a few SexLab mods like: Mia, Amorous Adventures (which seems to add a string every time a lover is added), DDI, DDX, DDA, Angrim, and Cursed Loot... I'm looking at between 51k and 56k strings. It goes over 65k after an estimated 20 hours reliably. On to actually fixing the issue; Has anyone spoken to enbdev/Boris? It seems he is still actively updating ENB for Skyrim. I would think he is just as familiar with the game code as the SKSE devs since I assume both programs work with code injection. Just thinking of opening up some avenues to get this solved instead of letting more people get hit with this stupid issue that should never have existed. I update the original post. If anyone has any particular information that you feel should be there, please let me know! :-) "When the numbers of strings exceeds 65535, the game continues to run without issue except that saving the game produces unreadable files. Even Script Scalpel and SaveTool can't load them, they are COMPLETELY recoverable." I would change recoverable to completely unrecoverable. I would also like to point out that papyrus logs show that the game will show issues until CTD once strcount goes over 65,535 as I noted in post #137. It just may take some time to CTD. In the meantime the errors will keep compounding and you'll end up with a 10mb+ papyrus log. Good job on the updated post though. Hopefully we'll get less folks thinking the problem is related to one of the many other things that go wrong with Skyrim.
Vader666 Posted March 16, 2016 Posted March 16, 2016 When MCM settings and registered animations are the problem, why not storage this data outside of the actual savegame file ? Like when saving a game, all this data is written into a file, then all MCM´s , animation registry and all of that, gets resetet/set to zero, then the actual savegame gets written. On load, the savegame gets loaded and after that the "mod save" restores everything. Until now i always thought the SKSE co-save does exactly that ?
merryMalfunctioning Posted March 16, 2016 Author Posted March 16, 2016 I have tested STEP: Extended. In the start in Helgen after following Ralof into the keep, the string count is at 32,030. That seems extremely high for a starting game with just the basic mods that are loaded as part of that. I would imagine it easily rising 10-15k in 20 hours. With a 10k rise it would go up to 42,030. With 15k it goes up to 47,030. I'm unsure if it rises above that but I think that a 15k rise in strings after 20 hours is a fairly decent estimate. The vanilla game, DLCs, and USLEEP take up 28,000, so STEP Extended is only using 4,000. I made a note about that in the OP. "When the numbers of strings exceeds 65535, the game continues to run without issue except that saving the game produces unreadable files. Even Script Scalpel and SaveTool can't load them, they are COMPLETELY recoverable." I would change recoverable to completely unrecoverable. I would also like to point out that papyrus logs show that the game will show issues until CTD once strcount goes over 65,535 as I noted in post #137. It just may take some time to CTD. In the meantime the errors will keep compounding and you'll end up with a 10mb+ papyrus log. Good job on the updated post though. Hopefully we'll get less folks thinking the problem is related to one of the many other things that go wrong with Skyrim. Thanks for spotting my typo; I added the info about the Papyrus errors.
Centrophy Posted March 16, 2016 Posted March 16, 2016 When MCM settings and registered animations are the problem, why not storage this data outside of the actual savegame file ? Like when saving a game, all this data is written into a file, then all MCM´s , animation registry and all of that, gets resetet/set to zero, then the actual savegame gets written. On load, the savegame gets loaded and after that the "mod save" restores everything. Until now i always thought the SKSE co-save does exactly that ? It's not just MCM's but they are a part of it and they can be string heavy. Helgen Reborn doesn't have an MCM but has over 1,000 strings.
malilie Posted March 16, 2016 Posted March 16, 2016 Since we aren't sure if a fix is even doable... I think we should shoot for testing new saves in new setups to see if we can come to an agreement on a maximum number of strings to start with. I have tested STEP: Extended. In the start in Helgen after following Ralof into the keep, the string count is at 32,030. That seems extremely high for a starting game with just the basic mods that are loaded as part of that. I would imagine it easily rising 10-15k in 20 hours. With a 10k rise it would go up to 42,030. With 15k it goes up to 47,030. I'm unsure if it rises above that but I think that a 15k rise in strings after 20 hours is a fairly decent estimate. With that in mind I would think that a good starting point for a somewhat stable game is sub 50k strings at start. My main install without any SexLab/adult mods is at 41k strings. With a few SexLab mods like: Mia, Amorous Adventures (which seems to add a string every time a lover is added), DDI, DDX, DDA, Angrim, and Cursed Loot... I'm looking at between 51k and 56k strings. It goes over 65k after an estimated 20 hours reliably. I think this is a great idea. I've been trying to prune my starting game down to 50-55k while still in the LAL starting cell. Still sitting about 55k with everything activated in the MCM, I'm trying to decide how to trim a bit more. I made a simple spreadsheet with my string number findings from before(so I could sort by strcount) if anyone thinks that would be useful I'll upload it. So far I'm finding those numbers fairly consistent through testing as I refine my modlist, but there is variance. Don't take any of those numbers as exact, sometimes the variance is as high as +/- 100 strings between saves. Thanks for all the additional information everyone!
merryMalfunctioning Posted March 17, 2016 Author Posted March 17, 2016 I made a simple spreadsheet with my string number findings from before(so I could sort by strcount) if anyone thinks that would be useful I'll upload it. So far I'm finding those numbers fairly consistent through testing as I refine my modlist, but there is variance. Don't take any of those numbers as exact, sometimes the variance is as high as +/- 100 strings between saves. Thanks for all the additional information everyone! Maybe not the whole list, but the highlights would be great. Especially mods that use a lot of strings, or that use way less than you expect.
Monoman1 Posted March 17, 2016 Posted March 17, 2016 On a clean start save (only with official DLC) I have around 27k strings. With all my mods (255+, merged ones etc.) I get for a new start like 55k 100 hours into the save I'm now around 65k, but I also added some mods during that time. Perhaps keeping it at like 60k will be enough that fluctuation isn't too high... need to test that out. What is ironic, perhaps: pretty much the only count the .ess file keeps as uint16 is the stringCount, everything else is uint32, like scriptCount, when it should be obvious that there will be much more strings in the save than scripts, if I understand this save format correctly. Just quoting what vyper said a while back. 55k may not be enough. It likely depends on exactly what mods you're using as well. By that I mean mod A might add 500 strings at the start of a new game and grow by 50 strings. And mod B might start with 50 strings and grow by 500 after 100 hours. Tbh, I've no interest in testing for 100 hours only to find out you still need to trim more. I'd rather wait for a fix. However long that might be....
spoonsinger Posted March 17, 2016 Posted March 17, 2016 Just pondering like. Does this carry over to FO4? I mean it's obvious that Bethesda/Zenimax managed to dodge a bullet when the Valve/Steam thing went tits up. (i.e. lots of people installing mods which could feck up their saves due to incompetent coding, even if they knew the coding was incompetent in the first place but just put it down to the publishers but not down to modder's who probably know what they are doing in the long term but were allowed to take money for mods based on an unstable system. There are places on this planet were a class action could happen). So only on a passing interest, (I suspect I don't really have enough time in my life for a modded FO4), if anybody has actually looked at the FO4 save format?
BigOnes69 Posted March 19, 2016 Posted March 19, 2016 Would this help? Patches the Papyrus Compiler to only run in 32-bit mode. http://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/65578/?tab=1&navtag=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nexusmods.com%2Fskyrim%2Fajax%2Fmoddescription%2F%3Fid%3D65578%26preview%3D&pUp=1 and this http://forum.step-project.com/topic/9015-papyrus-compiler-patch-for-x64-systems-by-doubleyou/ I dont know if mods were compiled using this would it effect the strings?
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.