Corrupted Saves

[sidfu]

 

jeezu ya gotta be kiddin me. i just started getting this problem. i think it may be my last straw. been messing w/ skyrim since the beginning, and this may do me in.

would like to try and salvage the playthrough i'm in. a terrible idea to start yanking MCM mods and script heavy mods mid-game i'm sure. i wonder if it might not be too terribly detrimental to use Tesedit to remove just the MCM menus of a few mods? don't think that would screw things up as much as removing the whole mod? i definitely have a few mods that don't even need the MCM

 

If you do ID any mods you think you can do without, use empty esp and/or esm files in their places to keep all the other mods in the same load order position so their baseID's don't change.  It has done me well so far.

 

 

that wot help thatt will probaly make it worse as data from the ones he removed will be inside the save. never remove mods during a playthru all u doing is makeing the game more unstable. 

almosts every mod has something that will get stuck in the save.

 

@mookeylama if u remove the mcm u just break the mod is all that happen.

[markdf]

 

@markdf if u realy realy want something to patch then why dontt patch skyui so thata it saves mcm into jcontainers or even FISS instead of the save

 

that sounds like the ticket right there. would do the most overall good i'd think

 

Unfortunately the strings used by a mod's MCM are part of that mod's own scripts, not part of SkyUI.

 

I did a bunch of tests on SkyUI, in which I generated a ridiculous number of MCM elements, and the string table increased very little. That's because I generated the elements automatically using loops, and didn't have named properties in my script for each element.

 

There are ways to avoid increasing the string count in an MCM, but each mod would have to do them. It's not a problem with SkyUI itself.

[sidfu]

i vote we enslave markdf and have him rewrite every mod ever made for skyrim. who with me on hunting him down .

[Mookeylama]

 

 

Anyway... what's next? What important mods should I take a look at for patching?

 

I would love you forever if you somehow managed to patch Legacy of the Dragonborn. It is such a heavy hitter, and I refuse to drop it. But I'll of course understand if your preference goes to patching LL mods before anything else.

 

Quest mods like that are the LEAST feasible mods to patch, because they are spread out over hundreds of different scripts. My thinking is that we should reduce the string counts of functionality mods (like Sexlab) in order to make the space needed by hard-to-fix quest mods.

 

 

maybe Skyrim Immersive Creatures. i think many use it and it's fairly high on strings. maybe Familiar Faces. it already uses JContainers

edit: oh and some newer  ones i was gonna use but maybe they don't have many strings. they have mcm tho.

Simply Knock, Quick Light, and Minerva

 

[markdf]

 

maybe Skyrim Immersive Creatures. i think many use it and it's fairly high on strings. maybe Familiar Faces. it already uses JContainers

edit: oh and some newer  ones i was gonna use but maybe they don't have many strings. they have mcm tho.

Simply Knock, Quick Light, and Minerva

 

Immersive Creatures is a great idea! The strings issue was actually why I uninstalled it in the first place, even back before I knew why it was causing problems. I'll take a look at it over the next few days.

 

i vote we enslave markdf and have him rewrite every mod ever made for skyrim. who with me on hunting him down .

 

Hunted and enslaved? This is sounding better all the time. :-)

[4nk8r]

 

 

jeezu ya gotta be kiddin me. i just started getting this problem. i think it may be my last straw. been messing w/ skyrim since the beginning, and this may do me in.

would like to try and salvage the playthrough i'm in. a terrible idea to start yanking MCM mods and script heavy mods mid-game i'm sure. i wonder if it might not be too terribly detrimental to use Tesedit to remove just the MCM menus of a few mods? don't think that would screw things up as much as removing the whole mod? i definitely have a few mods that don't even need the MCM

 

If you do ID any mods you think you can do without, use empty esp and/or esm files in their places to keep all the other mods in the same load order position so their baseID's don't change.  It has done me well so far.

 

 

that wot help thatt will probaly make it worse as data from the ones he removed will be inside the save. never remove mods during a playthru all u doing is makeing the game more unstable. 

almosts every mod has something that will get stuck in the save.

 

@mookeylama if u remove the mcm u just break the mod is all that happen.

 

 

 

Works just fine in conjunction with Save Tool.

 

1. Swap the mods with the filler mods

2. Scrape your save of those formID's and arrays using Save Tool

3. Load the modified save

4. Save once more

5. Open new save in Save Tool and remove any orphaned scripts, arrays and formID's.

6. Load cleaned save.

 

Works great.  Been doing it for quite some time to great effect.

 

Edit: removed a superfluous step.

[sidfu]

@4nik8tor  thats whats called a clean save and is great to do for simple mods but most of thosse making lots of strings are compliccated enough that even if u do get them uninstall right they permantely leave strings in your save. every mod that leaves strings or anything in yoiur save thats removed= more and more instablity in your game and it cause greater chance for crashes.

[Monoman1]

How about that precompiler idea. It's a longer shot but It would surely have the biggest impact if successful.

Biggest problem (i think) is renaming properties attached to forms inside the esp. 

 

Automation tools is capable of importing/exporting script and property names using: 

VMAD\Data\Quest VMAD\Scripts\[0]\scriptName

VMAD\Data\Quest VMAD\Scripts\[0]\Properties\[0]\propertyName

 

You need to increment \Scripts\[0] for each script attached to the quest and also increment Properties\[0] for each property attached to every script. 

 

The automation tools script is a much more general use tool. I think a more specialized script is needed to scan all properties attached to a script and then all scripts attached to a form. 

 

Then we'd need some external tool to scan through the export from TesEdit, (backup script files?), rename script properties in the psc file and send them to the compiler. 

[Sundder]

Hi markdf, I've been testing some mods for strcount over the last week or so (and uploading the results to EoS's google spreadsheet) and am planning on instaling DA:YMoUL, Captured + SL 1.61b with your patch and Defeat + Submit DD Progression. This is on a fresh game just outside the cave at Helgen. I was wondering if you could clear up one thing about your warning concerning the patch. Is it meant to be used only a brand new game (i.e., installed before a new game is started) or can it be used on a game that has never seen SL before? Thanks, for putting this together by the way, this strcount business has been a complete showstopper for me over the last few months.

 

 

[Mookeylama]

http://www.loverslab.com/topic/24722-sexiest-dance-mods-list-stripper-dance-etc/page-15

 

i'll submit this dance mod. it's the one that put me over the limit. it's Russian tho so probably tough to patch for jcont

[markdf]

Hi markdf, I've been testing some mods for strcount over the last week or so (and uploading the results to EoS's google spreadsheet) and am planning on instaling DA:YMoUL, Captured + SL 1.61b with your patch and Defeat + Submit DD Progression. This is on a fresh game just outside the cave at Helgen. I was wondering if you could clear up one thing about your warning concerning the patch. Is it meant to be used only a brand new game (i.e., installed before a new game is started) or can it be used on a game that has never seen SL before? Thanks, for putting this together by the way, this strcount business has been a complete showstopper for me over the last few months.

Yes, it will be fine if you have never installed sexlab.

 

It might be fine even on existing sexlab installs, if you do Sexlab's full uninstall reinstall cycle. I haven't tested enough to say for sure. It's easier to just say that it's not supported.

[Mookeylama]

Minerva follower

http://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/74256/?

about 230 strings

[edtide25]

Holy cow.. This is something I never heard of it. I just checked my strings and only have 75k. I guess I have to uninstall some mods that I don't use and start using JContainers but I do notice some of the CTD do happen often. Thanks for sharing valuable information. This thread needs be pinned for noobs like me.

[sidfu]

Holy cow.. This is something I never heard of it. I just checked my strings and only have 75k. I guess I have to uninstall some mods that I don't use and start using JContainers but I do notice some of the CTD do happen often. Thanks for sharing valuable information. This thread needs be pinned for noobs like me.

 

u have it backwards what happens is when u hit the ccap of 65k(not 75k) strings in the save when u load teh save moment u load iinto the game game crashes. i wouldnt call the saves corrupt just its unloadable by the skyrim save system.

[edtide25]

 

Holy cow.. This is something I never heard of it. I just checked my strings and only have 75k. I guess I have to uninstall some mods that I don't use and start using JContainers but I do notice some of the CTD do happen often. Thanks for sharing valuable information. This thread needs be pinned for noobs like me.

 

u have it backwards what happens is when u hit the ccap of 65k(not 75k) strings in the save when u load teh save moment u load iinto the game game crashes. i wouldnt call the saves corrupt just its unloadable by the skyrim save system.

 

 

Dang I misread again.. Please bear me. My eyes are tired. I think I was making guess on how many strings with 220+ mods lol .. Thanks for correcting me up.  

[edtide25]

Anyone mind telling me how many strings do Immersive Wenches + Hateful Wenches + Deadly Wenches + Forgotten Wenches? Those one of my top mods. Thanks 

[markdf]

Anyone mind telling me how many strings do Immersive Wenches + Hateful Wenches + Deadly Wenches + Forgotten Wenches? Those one of my top mods. Thanks 

 

If it's not in the spreadsheet, why not test itself yourself and post the results?

[markdf]

 

How about that precompiler idea. It's a longer shot but It would surely have the biggest impact if successful.

 

Biggest problem (i think) is renaming properties attached to forms inside the esp. 

 

Automation tools is capable of importing/exporting script and property names using: 

VMAD\Data\Quest VMAD\Scripts\[0]\scriptName

VMAD\Data\Quest VMAD\Scripts\[0]\Properties\[0]\propertyName

 

You need to increment \Scripts\[0] for each script attached to the quest and also increment Properties\[0] for each property attached to every script. 

 

The automation tools script is a much more general use tool. I think a more specialized script is needed to scan all properties attached to a script and then all scripts attached to a form. 

 

Then we'd need some external tool to scan through the export from TesEdit, (backup script files?), rename script properties in the psc file and send them to the compiler. 

 

I took a look at the file format of the pex files. I think a post-processor/patcher is the way to go. What's nice about pex files is that the string table is right at the beginning of the file. I can probably make a simple tool to reassign the strings in pex files without recompiling. Then the tool would need to run Tes5Edit in batch mode to update the ESP.

 

This apporach would only work for mods that are NOT linked to by other mods -- which immediately disqualifies most Sexlab mods, which all hook up with each other like some incestuous clan of hillbillies. But it may work for big quest mods like Legacy of the Dragonborn and Interesting NPCs.

 

I can't start on this project until the weekend. If anyone else would like to take the initiative and find me a guide to running TesEdit in batch mode (the way RealShelter does and other patching-mods do), that would be just super. :-)

[Mookeylama]

 

Anyone mind telling me how many strings do Immersive Wenches + Hateful Wenches + Deadly Wenches + Forgotten Wenches? Those one of my top mods. Thanks 

 

If it's not in the spreadsheet, why not test itself yourself and post the results?

 

 

what exactly is the best method to test for this? well, in an ongoing game anyway.

load game and check ESS strings

disable plugin

load game and save

run Save Game Cleaner on that save

reload and save

check the strings in new save

===============

 

that about the best way?

 

[Mookeylama]

 

 

How about that precompiler idea. It's a longer shot but It would surely have the biggest impact if successful.

 

Biggest problem (i think) is renaming properties attached to forms inside the esp. 

 

Automation tools is capable of importing/exporting script and property names using: 

VMAD\Data\Quest VMAD\Scripts\[0]\scriptName

VMAD\Data\Quest VMAD\Scripts\[0]\Properties\[0]\propertyName

 

You need to increment \Scripts\[0] for each script attached to the quest and also increment Properties\[0] for each property attached to every script. 

 

The automation tools script is a much more general use tool. I think a more specialized script is needed to scan all properties attached to a script and then all scripts attached to a form. 

 

Then we'd need some external tool to scan through the export from TesEdit, (backup script files?), rename script properties in the psc file and send them to the compiler. 

 

I took a look at the file format of the pex files. I think a post-processor/patcher is the way to go. What's nice about pex files is that the string table is right at the beginning of the file. I can probably make a simple tool to reassign the strings in pex files without recompiling. Then the tool would need to run Tes5Edit in batch mode to update the ESP.

 

This apporach would only work for mods that are NOT linked to by other mods -- which immediately disqualifies most Sexlab mods, which all hook up with each other like some incestuous clan of hillbillies. But it may work for big quest mods like Legacy of the Dragonborn and Interesting NPCs.

 

I can't start on this project until the weekend. If anyone else would like to take the initiative and find me a guide to running TesEdit in batch mode (the way RealShelter does and other patching-mods do), that would be just super. :-)

 

 

That would be awesome if you'd do that!! i'm really close to shelving the game and it's breakin my heart. also think of all the people who encountered this problem over the years but didn't know what the hell was happening. sure it's a small % of players but i bet still a significant amount.

 

and at the risk of committing a faux pas and bringing up the awkward subject of dough; i'd be happy to paypal ya something for your time and effort

 

[markdf]

 

That would be awesome if you'd do that!! i'm really close to shelving the game and it's breakin my heart. also think of all the people who encountered this problem over the years but didn't know what the hell was happening. sure it's a small % of players but i bet still a significant amount.

 

and at the risk of committing a faux pas and bringing up the awkward subject of dough; i'd be happy to paypal ya something for your time and effort

The only thing awkward about money is not having it... ;-)

 

Seriously though, I don't need donations. I mean, I totally do (I make minimum wage... Canadian minimum wage). But at least wait until there's a working proof-of-concept tool before celebrating and whatnot. :-)

 

what exactly is the best method to test for this? well, in an ongoing game anyway.

load game and check ESS strings

disable plugin

load game and save

run Save Game Cleaner on that save

reload and save

check the strings in new save

===============

 

that about the best way?

Other way around. Start the game without the plugin, wait 60 seconds for everything to stabilize, then save. Check the strings. Enable the plugin, load your game, open the MCM of the mod (if any), close it, and save. Check the strings again.

[Monoman1]

Sounds brilliant but how are you reading the pex files? I thought they were gobbledygook unless you decompiled them. 

As far as I know TesEdit uses a version of pascal for scripts or are you talking about skyproc type patches? 

[markdf]

Sounds brilliant but how are you reading the pex files? I thought they were gobbledygook unless you decompiled them.

They actually look pretty simple; a header, followed by a local string table, followed by a sequence of 16bit opcodes.

 

As far as I know TesEdit uses a version of pascal for scripts or are you talking about skyproc type patches?

Skyproc type. Skyproc, Realshelter, and ASIS all seem to start up tes5edit and then control it automatically. That's what I need.

[edtide25]

Ok I was doing the route that markdf explains on how many strings per mod.

 

Immersive Wenches = 50 

Hateful Wenches = 110

Deadly Wenches = 0

Forgotten Wenches = 25 

 

I will try to add those mods on spreadsheet. 

[Monoman1]

Like I said, gobbledygook

Hard to find info on skyproc. This: http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Tes5Mod:SkyProc seems like a good place to start but according to the "Records Access" page the only parts of Quest type forms that are accessible are FormID and EDID. 

Only had a quick look though.