Fallout 4 HDT?

[ousnius]

Yeah, we figured out it's a bug because the physics data isn't properly removed when equipping an outfit, so the breast bones go somewhere else.

See my sticky comment and the other comments on the BodySlide Nexus page.

 

Until someone fully decodes the BSClothExtraData block, this will be in an alpha state and should probably not get much clothing converted to just yet.

[tonicmole]

I'll try to reproduce this on the vanilla body.  I got sidetracked and never went any further on my physics investigation.  I don't know about the outfit issue, but I got some idea's.  I stumbled across some stuff a while back that might be related to this.  I can fix the deforming.  I always hated that in Skyrim when using physics.  Made it tricky shaping a body and knowing what it would look like with physics applied.  

[Kargrin]

Ive made an outfit with the new cbbe as base, but the crazy tits happen with both new and old outfits. Also with some armor pieces the boobs stay fine but the armor explodes:

 

[Karna5]

Hello. Sorry I couldn't test for a few hours. This is just to add the results of my tests, too, which corroborate in part what others have said before me.

 

First I tested the Epitaph BP files from here (loverslab). The undressed body had physics, and I could put any clothes on over it without problems. The clothes would lose the physics, but there would be no deformities. This includes RXL builds of Calyps, The assorted commonwealth clothes, the 2PAC outfits, the CBBE vanilla outfits and some assorted others.

 

Next I installed Cell's alpha test of the physics including the bodyslide studio update and the vanilla outfits. No matter what I did, the physics and shape looked good without outfits, but anything I put on over it would have crushed, inverted breasts. This includes things built in vanilla bodyslide (tonight's version) as well as things built with the older RXL, 2PAC, commonwealth, Honest Abe red dress, etc.

 

Next I installed Epitaphs BP files from Nexus. It behaved like the one from here. The physics were present without an outfit on, and putting an outfit on removed the physics but did not distort the shape. Putting on any outfit (even the Calypse Spartan harness, for instance) kept the old shapes without issues and simply lost the physics.

 

This may not be news to Cell or others investigating the best approach, and I do think Cell's goal of trying to get forward compatibility with future upgrades is important. So I am not reporting this as a problem but rather as a description of differences in behavior.

 

Thanks.

[invalidfate]

    WOW, I really don't know there is a havok block in Strugess's nif.  (the BBP video in the Mina's cloth is made through hkx animation, I just add the breast nodes into skeleton.hkx so it can be animated.).  

 

    This will bring so many possibilities like making physical movement to holstered weapons, katanas, and even a lantern.   Anyway, any one noticed that so far we are all talking about Havok cloth not physics like HDT-PE in skyrim? since the havok classname is not the same - prefix with  hkc for clothes, hka for animation, and hkp for physics.  

 

   In the last, anyone knows how to make a f4se or skse plugin or any kind of tutorial talking about how to discovery the game internal data structure in runtime? Does they use something like the CheatEngine to hack the runtime memory?  I would like to learn how to make one since I believe this is the only way toward the HDT and HighHeel.

[Monsto Brukes]

Yeah, we figured out it's a bug because the physics data isn't properly removed when equipping an outfit, so the breast bones go somewhere else.

See my sticky comment and the other comments on the BodySlide Nexus page.

 

Until someone fully decodes the BSClothExtraData block, this will be in an alpha state and should probably not get much clothing converted to just yet.

 

Quoted for attention.

 

Well done with the investigations. Thank you.

[sgfhk321]

A quick question: now we have boobs that more or less fall towards the ground but can we expect a more advanced physic system that conserves the volume and allows the boobs to change shape (e.g. flatten when character is on the ground) in the future? Will it require a massive amount of CPU power?

[ousnius]

A quick question: now we have boobs that more or less fall towards the ground but can we expect a more advanced physic system that conserves the volume and allows the boobs to change shape (e.g. flatten when character is on the ground) in the future? Will it require a massive amount of CPU power?

 

We need someone to fully decode the "BSClothExtraData" block of the NIF format before we can do that.

[sgfhk321]

 

A quick question: now we have boobs that more or less fall towards the ground but can we expect a more advanced physic system that conserves the volume and allows the boobs to change shape (e.g. flatten when character is on the ground) in the future? Will it require a massive amount of CPU power?

 

We need someone to fully decode the "BSClothExtraData" block of the NIF format before we can do that.

 

 

Will Beth release these information with the promised Creation Kit? I mean, did they do that for Skyrim?

[Elukard]

ok looks like gona wait some more for shakin booty and boobies

[DexesTTP]

Will Beth release these information with the promised Creation Kit? I mean, did they do that for Skyrim?

No they didn't, and I don't expect for them to do it this time.

 

The reason seems to be mostly legal (or maybe corporate - understand Zenimax's decision), as they seem file with the modding community finding the format information themselves (and obviously they know the format as they've built it).

 

They might give us tools to edit this field, though. That's a possibility, but I don't think it was done in the FO3 GECK / Skyrim CK.

[Acornus]

Extremely nooby question, but with Havok being out the window right now for us common peeps (Intel concluded it's Free partnership), will there be any serious hampering to this entire side of modding, or can it still be done?

 

(Here's hoping MassFX or something can replace it).

[Gameplayer]

Extremely nooby question, but with Havok being out the window right now for us common peeps (Intel concluded it's Free partnership), will there be any serious hampering to this entire side of modding, or can it still be done?

 

(Here's hoping MassFX or something can replace it).

 

?what

 

Look man don't know where your going with this question.

 

You realize that for the most part modding is accomplished without help?

 

By self-taught individuals.

 

There are also language barriers that we deal with when in search of answers, an English speaker like myself might find an answer from a modder that can only speak in say German or Chinese but that's also a lot of effort even with Google translate.

 

Its likely at some point HDT effects like the ones mod users want will happen but it all takes time and effort from people that don't settle for less.

 

Corporate not helping out that's nothing new.

What we have now that's all hobbiest stuff from college kids, retired folks, ppl in the actual fields, and just ppl that are really into this as a hobby.

 

Heck its better now than it was back in Fo3 days man you would like literally post a question and get no response....It'd be buried.

I learned how to do a lot of stuff originally by watching YouTube videos made in languages I didn't even speak or understand.

 

[DexesTTP]

Extremely nooby question, but with Havok being out the window right now for us common peeps (Intel concluded it's Free partnership), will there be any serious hampering to this entire side of modding, or can it still be done?

 

(Here's hoping MassFX or something can replace it).

Yes, things will happen even if we don't have the tools given to us.

 

First, we are studying right now the actual havok files. I already finished decrypting the hkx base contents and I'm working on a parser to output it in text format (that was done with the library you referenced in Skyrim).

CPU is also working on a way to convert the animations (also done with the Havok tools before) and he's making encouraging progress decrypting the data.

Finally, Figment didn't give up yet on using the old Havok library for physics and such. We could convert some of the data back to the old format to make needed collision detection.

 

The only thing is that we can't guarantee to succeed in any of this.

[Freedan]

Hi all

 

I have a question where I can find all the necessary to make my oun armor in 3d Max 2012?

 

like as 3dmax plugin to import nif and settings for importing and exporting?

 

obviously for fallout 4

[Acornus]

 

Extremely nooby question, but with Havok being out the window right now for us common peeps (Intel concluded it's Free partnership), will there be any serious hampering to this entire side of modding, or can it still be done?

 

(Here's hoping MassFX or something can replace it).

Yes, things will happen even if we don't have the tools given to us.

 

First, we are studying right now the actual havok files. I already finished decrypting the hkx base contents and I'm working on a parser to output it in text format (that was done with the library you referenced in Skyrim).

CPU is also working on a way to convert the animations (also done with the Havok tools before) and he's making encouraging progress decrypting the data.

Finally, Figment didn't give up yet on using the old Havok library for physics and such. We could convert some of the data back to the old format to make needed collision detection.

 

The only thing is that we can't guarantee to succeed in any of this.

 

 

Cheers mate, that makes sense.

 

Just was bloody suprised that Intel would knacker up something like this out of the blue (and Bethesda didn't make any mention of this considering how hard they wanted to push their own modding platform) without some kind of replacement.

 

Oh well, best of luck!

[Guest]

 

Oh well, best of luck!

 

 

Thanks. Appreciated.

[Th1nker]

First of all, fantastic job to all the modders who were behind this. This came out way quicker and way better than I expected it to, so thank you all.

 

Now for my question: 

 

Is there going to be any way to modify the bounce at all? I like the mod and think it works great, but I also find that the bounce is very small and very fast. It would be cool to have some sliders in body slide where you can modify different aspects of the bounce and preview it. I know it's probably way more difficult in practice than it sounds, but I think it would be a useful addition if it's in any way feasible.

[bluedog]

I don't know if this is at all helpful -

 

I have built my armor/clothing/body assets into separate streams - player / companion / general NPC (e.g. player.esp / companion.esp / cbbe.esp).  I built the nude body for player and companion with physics, and then built a number of "skmpy" armors/clothes using 2pacs Skimpy Armor mod with physics for each stream.  

 

OK.  

 

The player and companion bodies and armor/clothing have breast physics.  However, the bug reported above (breast collapse and gross distortion) occurs when I change from one outfit to the next (e.g. from a nude body or textured clothes body to armor/clothes).  If I save and restart, the bug is gone - the armor / clothing now has breasts with physics.  Note that changing from one armor to another also causes the bug.  

 

So, in summary, if I start with a physics enabled armor/cloth, it will work fine.  It is only when I change that the bug appears.  Nude bodies, of course, never exhibit the bug.

[junkacc]

These bugs would not happen with a UNP body!

[ousnius]

These bugs would not happen with a UNP body!

 

LL needs a new rule that prohibits talking about "Anything vs. Anything". 

This thread is about HDT, keep about it about HDT (no matter if you were serious or not).

 

About the bugs: I can't fix them yet. The BSClothExtraData block needs to be fully decoded by someone first.

See my Nexus sticky comment on the BodySlide page.

[Sayman]

how to convert/add breast`s physics to 2pac`s armor`s and cloth`s?

[invalidfate]

how to convert/add breast`s physics to 2pac`s armor`s and cloth`s?

 

1) copy the BSClothExtraData from CBBE physics, then you get two options to make it rig right. 

 

2a) (easy way, but may have compatibility issues, since it change the skinpose.   So far my Mina and PE outfit mod use this way)

    copy the L/RBreast_skin bonedata from CBBE physics one to your nif.  

 

2b) (hard way, dirty havok block hexedit but I think this would solve all the compatibility issues.  I may try this way later to my "simply cloth" mod)

     There is one section in the BSClothExtraData describing the skeleton hierarchy and pose it used. Find corresponding L/RBreast_skin section, making it the same as nif ones.  

 

Sorry English is not my native language, and explain this kind stuff in short is just beyond my ability. (I may need to write a thesis to state it clear....)

[Sayman]

Nifscope buged. i try to copy bones, but insted copy breasts bones, it copy spine bones. may be have way`s to use bodyslide?

[2pac4eva7]

These bugs would not happen with a UNP body!

Lol

how to convert/add breast`s physics to 2pac`s armor`s and cloth`s?

Not gonna happen anytime soon from me. The system is not mature enough yet