Fallout 4 HDT?

[ousnius]

 

 

I say skeleton.hkx and XPMSE having one for BBP and one for HDT, remember what it means for physics when a node was animatable via the default rig map? Animation moves the node, node gets set to that position, physics = shitty, vanilla animation exported with the full bone list, any animation moving that node by default.

 

So basically, SK didn't have the breast bones in the default rig, but FO4 does. So something like HDT PE might not be able to fully control the node properly. And adding new parents for physics control/reparenting stuff around won't help?

[Groovtama]

So basically, SK didn't have the breast bones in the default rig, but FO4 does. So something like HDT PE might not be able to fully control the node properly. Any adding new parents for physics control/reparenting stuff around won't help?

Skyrim nodes are custom nodes made by cherry and are not by default in the rig map, they are also more specific I assume as the Fallout 4 ones from the position, so animations are not depending on them, as for Fallout 4 the position is near the arm pit and so they could tried to fix the arm pit streching with it (Didn't looked at the actual skinning because no max plugin with proper skeleton import).

 

The only option for good physics without extra nodes is removing them from the default rig map, which is without a arm patch which will be probably necessary and without a hkx<->xml tool impossible and which has unforeseen consequences if removed. So the option is shitty physics or animation based physics before we solve the conflict.

[ousnius]

 

So basically, SK didn't have the breast bones in the default rig, but FO4 does. So something like HDT PE might not be able to fully control the node properly. Any adding new parents for physics control/reparenting stuff around won't help?

Skyrim nodes are custom nodes made by cherry and are not by default in the rig map, they are also more specific I assume as the Fallout 4 ones from the position, so animations are not depending on them, as for Fallout 4 the position is near the arm pit and so they could tried to fix the arm pit streching with it (Didn't looked at the actual skinning because no max plugin with proper skeleton import).

 

The only option for good physics without extra nodes is removing them from the default rig map, which is without a arm patch which will be probably necessary and without a hkx<->xml tool impossible and which has unforeseen consequences if removed. So the option is shitty physics or animation based physics before we solve the conflict.

 

 

One could see what happens in the game when simply removing the LBreast_skin and RBreast_skin weights from CBBE with OS, other than the scaling of the triangle for them not working anymore.

[Groovtama]

 

 

So basically, SK didn't have the breast bones in the default rig, but FO4 does. So something like HDT PE might not be able to fully control the node properly. Any adding new parents for physics control/reparenting stuff around won't help?

Skyrim nodes are custom nodes made by cherry and are not by default in the rig map, they are also more specific I assume as the Fallout 4 ones from the position, so animations are not depending on them, as for Fallout 4 the position is near the arm pit and so they could tried to fix the arm pit streching with it (Didn't looked at the actual skinning because no max plugin with proper skeleton import).

 

The only option for good physics without extra nodes is removing them from the default rig map, which is without a arm patch which will be probably necessary and without a hkx<->xml tool impossible and which has unforeseen consequences if removed. So the option is shitty physics or animation based physics before we solve the conflict.

 

 

One could see what happens in the game when simply removing the LBreast_skin and RBreast_skin weights from CBBE with OS, other than the scaling of the triangle for them not working anymore.

 

One (you) should do it, and I don't assume that the triangle doesn't work anymore because it is probably not using Havok for it, more likly node proper manipulations scales\positions\rotations, and that would not need the node in the rig map.

[SensualLust]

Do really need HDT since Fallout 4 seems to have an updated Havok Physics engine? I mean havok now affects clothing and hair, so why couldnt we not figure out if we can do breast, belly, and butt?

[phyankord]

Do really need HDT since Fallout 4 seems to have an updated Havok Physics engine? I mean havok now affects clothing and hair, so why couldnt we not figure out if we can do breast, belly, and butt?

 

makes sense to me

[Groovtama]

Do really need HDT since Fallout 4 seems to have an updated Havok Physics engine? I mean havok now affects clothing and hair, so why couldnt we not figure out if we can do breast, belly, and butt?

People are whining for HDT physics because they have not much knowledge how all the stuff works together. HDT = I get  jelly tits, for them because they know from skyrim.

 

Cell and I are already checking what can be done.

[Gameplayer]

Hey thanks for looking into that for us Groovtama and Cell.

 

Totally understand this stuff takes a whole more than 15 minutes. 

[Groovtama]

Just looked at the bonelist in skeleton.hkx in binary form BreastX_skin could be fine for breast physics. They seem not to be in there.

[PinkyAndTheBrain]

 

HDT SMP works with the Bullet lib and is for Skyrim mostly stuff for a handful of people.

 

HDT PE is Havok the same Havok Skyrim Physics engine is from, what the majority uses, before anyone asks.

 

 

How much existing know how and content would still be relevant to Havok 2014?

 

Also you can distribute Bullet documentation without getting a take down notice.

[Groovtama]

 

 

HDT SMP works with the Bullet lib and is for Skyrim mostly stuff for a handful of people.

 

HDT PE is Havok the same Havok Skyrim Physics engine is from, what the majority uses, before anyone asks.

 

 

How much existing know how and content would still be relevant to Havok 2014?

 

Also you can distribute Bullet documentation without getting a take down notice.

 

Havok 2010 and 2014 are still Havok, not that much of a difference in terms of physics for devs.

 

Bullet is open source why would you get a take down notice to distribute something that is open to everyone?

[PinkyAndTheBrain]

 

Bullet is open source why would you get a take down notice to distribute something that is open to everyone?

 

 

Sorry, I should have said that differently.

 

As opposed to Havok you can distribute Bullet documentation without getting a take down notice. With Project Anarchy dead and buried the openly available documentation for Havok is gone.

[Guest]

The problem is that Havok is way more used in FO4 that it was for Skyrim.

And Havok documentation is no more "available".

 

If you need some advises about it, try the IRC Channel: https://kiwiirc.com/client/irc.freenode.org/niftools

[sgfhk321]

 

 

HDT SMP works with the Bullet lib and is for Skyrim mostly stuff for a handful of people.

 

HDT PE is Havok the same Havok Skyrim Physics engine is from, what the majority uses, before anyone asks.

 

How much existing know how and content would still be relevant to Havok 2014?

 

Also you can distribute Bullet documentation without getting a take down notice.

Havok 2010 and 2014 are still Havok, not that much of a difference in terms of physics for devs.

 

Bullet is open source why would you get a take down notice to distribute something that is open to everyone?

I notice the vanilla game already has physics for clothing and hair and unlike what we have for Skyrim "true" gravity seems to be in effect as in things do fall towards the ground. I assume this is an improvement in havok 2014? I wonder when HDT does come will we be looking at boobs that actually obey gravity?

[Guest]

 

I notice the vanilla game already has physics for clothing and hair and unlike what we have for Skyrim "true" gravity seems to be in effect as in things do fall towards the ground. I assume this is an improvement in havok 2014? I wonder when HDT does come will we be looking at boobs that actually obey gravity?

 

 

Havok 2010 was already supporting it, but Skyrim was not using it.

[Xpyke]

This entire section is a rollercoaster of emotions for us mere mortals, us users can only hope and thank you people for the work done, good luck for you all (and us!).

[Fredas]

 

I wonder when HDT does come will we be looking at boobs that actually obey gravity?

Havok 2010 was already supporting it, but Skyrim was not using it.

 

This was always my main misgiving with how the effect worked in Skyrim.  Implementing actual gravity would go a long way in preventing physics presets from being absurd, by virtue of the fact that it would be much more challenging to get a realistic effect, but the result would invariably be better than the usual "springy" reactions.  (Gravity would provide a much-needed dampener to prevent the breasts from jiggling infinitely, the way most presets unfortunately did.)

 

Now, obviously, some system of volume-preservation would be the logical next step, to really take advantage of gravity and to avoid the phenomenon of breasts shrinking and growing when they jiggle.  I half-expected this step to be taken, now that it's 2016, but it kind of sounds like there may be technical reasons why it is impractical.

[nutluck]

I won't pretend to understand all of this, I get the very basics of the conversation. I hope things can be figured out or as more tools come out that it allows things to be figured out. Either way Cell and Groove thanks for looking into it either way.

[PinkyAndTheBrain]

 

Now, obviously, some system of volume-preservation would be the logical next step

 

That would be very awkward with skeletal animation, you really want the code to be able to directly manipulate vertices for this.

[Fredas]

That would be very awkward with skeletal animation, you really want the code to be able to directly manipulate vertices for this.

 

Ideally, sure.  But I gather that in the absence of that capacity, it can suffice reasonably well to have a multitude of breast bones.

[PinkyAndTheBrain]

 

Ideally, sure.  But I gather that in the absence of that capacity, it can suffice reasonably well to have a multitude of breast bones.

 

 

I'm not sure, maybe if you could change weights on the fly too.

 

PS. you'd certainly be doing this completely outside of Havok, it offers nothing to solve this.

[tonicmole]

Anyone know what spine2_skin is used for?  In the race menu it has multipliers for bone weighting.  It's how my Busty mod works.  Every entry has a BMMP entry, but only spine2_skin uses it.  I applied the same value 01 00 00 00 to one of the breasts and it smashed it a little bit, but not much else.  Probably just another weight manipulator, but that would be rather redundant.  If you want to see the possibilities check out Sturgess outfit.  5 or 6 animated objects.  They're not using the skeletons default bones, they have their own very specific bones like CLOTH_Bone_Googles02 and yes, they spelled it "googles".  If that's even remotely true then that would be much better than replacing the main skeleton.  My guess is that each animated object has it's own custom bones that are then attached to the main skeleton.  Maybe Spine2_skin is that bone?  That's me making huge leaps with little knowledge. 

 

Okay, another ignorant leap.  If we were able to apply light physics to the existing breast bones it would affect almost all female clothing automatically.  However we could then make cloth bones for the nude body for more elaborate jiggle.  That be my dream come true.  Also, anything someone wanted ample jiggle in could use the cloth bones, while everything else rely on the main skeletons breast bones.  Variable jiggle!  Okay, tomorrow I'll actually research instead of making up stuff off of the top of my head.

[SIX-SH00T3R]

I love that you wonderful people are looking into this. I mainly understand  "blah bones blah skeleton, blah jiggle blah, HDT, blah clothing, blah nodes. And the rest of the words are just more blah  
I understand how HDT is harder to control compared to normal animations. But I do prefer HDT, even with it's occasional quirks.

Great work guys! Keep it going! 

[Cooliest]

Jiggle boobs jiggle boobs jiggle all the way 

[Z0mBieP00Nani]

 

 

 

 

 

HDT SMP works with the Bullet lib and is for Skyrim mostly stuff for a handful of people.

HDT PE is Havok the same Havok Skyrim Physics engine is from, what the majority uses, before anyone asks.

How much existing know how and content would still be relevant to Havok 2014?

Also you can distribute Bullet documentation without getting a take down notice.

Havok 2010 and 2014 are still Havok, not that much of a difference in terms of physics for devs.

Bullet is open source why would you get a take down notice to distribute something that is open to everyone?

I notice the vanilla game already has physics for clothing and hair and unlike what we have for Skyrim "true" gravity seems to be in effect as in things do fall towards the ground. I assume this is an improvement in havok 2014? I wonder when HDT does come will we be looking at boobs that actually obey gravity?

 

 

 

 

Damn I hope so...

 

 

 

Jiggle boobs jiggle boobs jiggle all the way 

 

 

 

lol