Aria Posted October 11, 2015 Posted October 11, 2015 Surely enough, I picked it up again after this thread. Good god, the women in this game are still as bombastic as ever. Talking to Jeanette is about the equivalent of popping a viagra...they don't make 'em like this anymore. Â Most of the game studios dont have the guts to do it anymore, there is always someone crying about sexism somewhere, not that it wouldnt be true, but most of the time people overreact about the smallest things. Â
Kuroyami Posted October 11, 2015 Posted October 11, 2015  Surely enough, I picked it up again after this thread. Good god, the women in this game are still as bombastic as ever. Talking to Jeanette is about the equivalent of popping a viagra...they don't make 'em like this anymore.  Most of the game studios dont have the guts to do it anymore, there is always someone crying about sexism somewhere, not that it wouldnt be true, but most of the time people overreact about the smallest things.   The funny part is that people can complain about that, even if the character in question actually has depth, in that they might have all the sex appeal in the world, but it still is not all the character is good for. Jeanette is a highly attractive character that, as said, uses you to advance her interests, which can obviously lead to her being able to take the lead of Santa Monica for herself. Hell, how many of us chose her over Therese based on looks alone? Sure there may be more to that decision, as I prefer that a character like her has depth like she does, but some see a sexuallized character and sometimes cannot look past that fact to see the character's depth. It would be better if she had an impact to the story latter on(especially given the box art), but like others, it's a very minor complaint since Troika was probably planning a host of other things that never got into the game either.  Just like Miranda in ME2, where she is NOT just eye candy for the audience. She has an impact on the story, which is greater if you choose to bring her with you on missions(especially the Collector Base if you choose the Paragon option). But some might hear her boasting at the beginning about her looks and skills, along with her Cerberus connection, and they actually have ample reason to NOT give a damn if she gets killed by the end if the main mission. Hell, they would rather that she not be on their squad at all, perhaps just for her Cerberus connection alone. Much if this comes from the fact that some cannot even simply talk to her, likely avoiding her entirely.  VV is a similar example, doing the same thing, although in this case the potential reward is a bit more, upfront. Maybe it doesn't go that far with her, but even so, there is more to her than just what is obvious from a minute or two of listening to her dialog.
Guest Jain Posted October 11, 2015 Posted October 11, 2015   Surely enough, I picked it up again after this thread. Good god, the women in this game are still as bombastic as ever. Talking to Jeanette is about the equivalent of popping a viagra...they don't make 'em like this anymore.  Most of the game studios dont have the guts to do it anymore, there is always someone crying about sexism somewhere, not that it wouldnt be true, but most of the time people overreact about the smallest things.   The funny part is that people can complain about that, even if the character in question actually has depth, in that they might have all the sex appeal in the world, but it still is not all the character is good for. Jeanette is a highly attractive character that, as said, uses you to advance her interests, which can obviously lead to her being able to take the lead of Santa Monica for herself. Hell, how many of us chose her over Therese based on looks alone? Sure there may be more to that decision, as I prefer that a character like her has depth like she does, but some see a sexuallized character and sometimes cannot look past that fact to see the character's depth. It would be better if she had an impact to the story latter on(especially given the box art), but like others, it's a very minor complaint since Troika was probably planning a host of other things that never got into the game either.  Just like Miranda in ME2, where she is NOT just eye candy for the audience. She has an impact on the story, which is greater if you choose to bring her with you on missions(especially the Collector Base if you choose the Paragon option). But some might hear her boasting at the beginning about her looks and skills, along with her Cerberus connection, and they actually have ample reason to NOT give a damn if she gets killed by the end if the main mission. Hell, they would rather that she not be on their squad at all, perhaps just for her Cerberus connection alone. Much if this comes from the fact that some cannot even simply talk to her, likely avoiding her entirely.  VV is a similar example, doing the same thing, although in this case the potential reward is a bit more, upfront. Maybe it doesn't go that far with her, but even so, there is more to her than just what is obvious from a minute or two of listening to her dialog.    I think you just highlighted the sheer level of quality that exists within VTMB in regards to its characters.  Taking for instance Miranda, i'd say that she is in fact eye candy, or at least came across as that for me because her attractiveness serves no real purpose for her character, it is just there compared to Jeanette whose sexuality is a core part of her character and she utilises it in order to push her own agenda. Miranda for me come across as well, fan wank for the player basically. After all, we know she was genetically engineered and was designed to be perfect even in her looks yet we never see her put her attractiveness to use even though it would obviously be to her advantage to do so as a Cerberus agent.  (note: i never played ME3 so maybe she does in that)  Comparatively however the sexual attractiveness of both VV and Jeanette  is a core part of their character and is used to express their personality rather than just being there because the designers know good looking female characters will help focus attention on them. From the way the characters speak, to what they say to even how their facial expressions are animated they are trying to seduce us in order to manipulate us, telling us exactly what we want to hear so that we'll do their bidding.  I mean obviously we still have all those posters in the game but i think that the sex appeal of both VV and Jeanette has a greater level of depth than I've seen in other female characters in other video games. I mean i've not had another female character in a video game ever actually manage to seduce me as a person the way those two were able to anyway lol
Kuroyami Posted October 11, 2015 Posted October 11, 2015   I think you just highlighted the sheer level of quality that exists within VTMB in regards to its characters.  Taking for instance Miranda, i'd say that she is in fact eye candy, or at least came across as that for me because her attractiveness serves no real purpose for her character, it is just there compared to Jeanette whose sexuality is a core part of her character and she utilises it in order to push her own agenda. Miranda for me come across as well, fan wank for the player basically. After all, we know she was genetically engineered and was designed to be perfect even in her looks yet we never see her put her attractiveness to use even though it would obviously be to her advantage to do so as a Cerberus agent.  (note: i never played ME3 so maybe she does in that)  Comparatively however the sexual attractiveness of both VV and Jeanette  is a core part of their character and is used to express their personality rather than just being there because the designers know good looking female characters will help focus attention on them. From the way the characters speak, to what they say to even how their facial expressions are animated they are trying to seduce us in order to manipulate us, telling us exactly what we want to hear so that we'll do their bidding.  I mean obviously we still have all those posters in the game but i think that the sex appeal of both VV and Jeanette has a greater level of depth than I've seen in other female characters in other video games. I mean i've not had another female character in a video game ever actually manage to seduce me as a person the way those two were able to anyway lol   Not sure if she ever uses her looks to her advantage in ME3, although I've only seen most of the game in lets plays, as I find even ME3's opening complete crap - or at least not specific to respecting choices you made in the previous games. Didn't play Arrival? Still stripped of your rank and detained on Earth due to being involved with Cerberus - nevermind that at no point previous do the games make it clear that you were given your Alliance rank back, which means....in short it's a cluster...you get the rest. Nevermind that the trial is before the beginning of the game, so you cannot defend yourself. I probably could get the game and play it, but with the MEHEM(od), although even so I'd be cringing the entire time. At least the ending would be better.  Yeah, take one glance at them as the dialogue starts and listen to their opening lines, and I think anyone would not mind being putty in their hands.  Personally I think Rayne from BloodRayne counts too, although given that she is the main character, the depth is not there to the same level. Obviously there is some sexualization going on with her character too, considering the outfit designs, the cheat codes that only offer a visual benefit, etc. Which is nothing I would hold against it( I would say she has a great body though...), but I can't be that critical. I like the games and I know they have flaws, but I can overlook them. This is to say nothing about the movies, which, if I could get those 6+ hours back, I would.  Venus may be another example, although in her case it seems, odd. Mostly since it could be said that she knows you are a Vampire, and perhaps was intended on being a ghoul in an early stage of development. But for her, even as a side character, still has a goal in mind that you are perfect to help her with. She doesn't mislead you in any way, or leave her motivations unclear, and perhaps the incentive is basically cash either way, but what she says is enough to perhaps be worth it in itself.
Guest Jain Posted October 11, 2015 Posted October 11, 2015    I think you just highlighted the sheer level of quality that exists within VTMB in regards to its characters.  Taking for instance Miranda, i'd say that she is in fact eye candy, or at least came across as that for me because her attractiveness serves no real purpose for her character, it is just there compared to Jeanette whose sexuality is a core part of her character and she utilises it in order to push her own agenda. Miranda for me come across as well, fan wank for the player basically. After all, we know she was genetically engineered and was designed to be perfect even in her looks yet we never see her put her attractiveness to use even though it would obviously be to her advantage to do so as a Cerberus agent.  (note: i never played ME3 so maybe she does in that)  Comparatively however the sexual attractiveness of both VV and Jeanette  is a core part of their character and is used to express their personality rather than just being there because the designers know good looking female characters will help focus attention on them. From the way the characters speak, to what they say to even how their facial expressions are animated they are trying to seduce us in order to manipulate us, telling us exactly what we want to hear so that we'll do their bidding.  I mean obviously we still have all those posters in the game but i think that the sex appeal of both VV and Jeanette has a greater level of depth than I've seen in other female characters in other video games. I mean i've not had another female character in a video game ever actually manage to seduce me as a person the way those two were able to anyway lol   Not sure if she ever uses her looks to her advantage in ME3, although I've only seen most of the game in lets plays, as I find even ME3's opening complete crap - or at least not specific to respecting choices you made in the previous games. Didn't play Arrival? Still stripped of your rank and detained on Earth due to being involved with Cerberus - nevermind that at no point previous do the games make it clear that you were given your Alliance rank back, which means....in short it's a cluster...you get the rest. Nevermind that the trial is before the beginning of the game, so you cannot defend yourself. I probably could get the game and play it, but with the MEHEM(od), although even so I'd be cringing the entire time. At least the ending would be better.  Yeah, take one glance at them as the dialogue starts and listen to their opening lines, and I think anyone would not mind being putty in their hands.  Personally I think Rayne from BloodRayne counts too, although given that she is the main character, the depth is not there to the same level. Obviously there is some sexualization going on with her character too, considering the outfit designs, the cheat codes that only offer a visual benefit, etc. Which is nothing I would hold against it( I would say she has a great body though...), but I can't be that critical. I like the games and I know they have flaws, but I can overlook them. This is to say nothing about the movies, which, if I could get those 6+ hours back, I would.  Venus may be another example, although in her case it seems, odd. Mostly since it could be said that she knows you are a Vampire, and perhaps was intended on being a ghoul in an early stage of development. But for her, even as a side character, still has a goal in mind that you are perfect to help her with. She doesn't mislead you in any way, or leave her motivations unclear, and perhaps the incentive is basically cash either way, but what she says is enough to perhaps be worth it in itself.    This actually makes me realise another point about VTMB If you think about it every character is out there trying to use you expect for two, Mercurio and Beckett, the two you are told you can trust by the seer. Everyone else, including Jack attempts to manipulate you.  With VV and Jeanette its more obvious because of the whole sexual factor but when you look at a character like Jack or Nines you realise that they've been leading you on too, while they might not lie to you they suddenly spin things in their own favour and capitalise on LaCorix's failing as a Prince to get you against him.   I mean not once does Jack actually tell you there is a bomb in that tomb even though he put it there and he is apparently you're "friend."  When you reflect on it everyone was just out there looking out for themselves and using you for their own gain either through lying to you, seducing you with sex, money or a persuasive argument or just outright forcing you to do what they wanted you to do like LaCroix.  I think thats why my favourite ending is the one where I just give everyone the finger and walk off lolÂ
Aria Posted October 11, 2015 Posted October 11, 2015 I never really liked Miranda, she was always crying about her father and all what he did to her but its exactly as was said, she never used it to her advantage. I bet she would have taken her father down a long time ago if she would actually used all the abilities he engineered into her. Â Thats why the characters in Bloodlines are so much more likeable, believable and have depth, you get to see characters that have all sort of prejudices, agendas but they dont feel so forced as in case of Bioware games just for the sake of diversity. The sexuality playes a role in the game and Jeanette, VV both use them to their advantage, just like many women do in real life, thats that sort of mature design im missing in nowadays games. Everyone pretends that we are living in a super mature society, but opposite is the truth. Â
Chaos63 Posted October 11, 2015 Posted October 11, 2015 You guys can take the highroad all you want, but I'm gonna be the first one to admit I chose Jeanette solely based on her skill in making my pants rip. The moment I walked into that club and had that 1.5 minute conversation, I basically went "ok, I'm gonna do whatever this one wants" and just like that, poor Therese never had a prayer in the world. Never, under any circumstance, underestimate the sexual hold a woman can have on a man. More ways than one to become a ghoul, I guess...
Sacremas Posted October 12, 2015 Posted October 12, 2015 For Jeanette and Therese I always leave them as Tourette, because I'm a bit of a bastard. Plus it's probably more healthy for them, they'll have a better chance of dealing with their Malkhavian issues then. It's pretty cool, VtM: "Bloodlines" came out just before Vampire Bloodlines, the new version of the world, and there the Malkhavians are corrupted Ventures, and if you look at these two, Jeanette is clearly Malkhavian, and Therese is clearly Ventrue, it fits entirely with both the old system and the new, without forcing them to be either. Â Reminiscinting like this about the quality of the characters and writing in TtM:B makes me even more hopeful towards the upcomign sequel to Torment, Tides of Numera, as not only the creative lead and main writer of Vampire Brian Mitsoda (who also voiced several characters like the Ghoul Romero) is involved in it as well as George Ziets (NWN2 Mask of the Betrayer lead), Colin McComb (along with Monte Cook who created the Numera setting was lead designer on the PnP Planescape setting, as well as significant contributor to the previous Torment) and Chris Avellone... yeah my hopes are sky-high for this one. Which unfortunately will mean pretty much for sure they won't be met, but hopefully it'll get close.
Kuroyami Posted October 12, 2015 Posted October 12, 2015 For Jeanette and Therese I always leave them as Tourette, because I'm a bit of a bastard. Plus it's probably more healthy for them, they'll have a better chance of dealing with their Malkhavian issues then. It's pretty cool, VtM: "Bloodlines" came out just before Vampire Bloodlines, the new version of the world, and there the Malkhavians are corrupted Ventures, and if you look at these two, Jeanette is clearly Malkhavian, and Therese is clearly Ventrue, it fits entirely with both the old system and the new, without forcing them to be either. Bloodlines is based on White Wolf's Vampire: The Masquerade, not Vampire: The Requiem, that being the new gameline that replaced VtM around the time of Bloodlines' release/development. Â Both Jeanette and Therese are Malkavian, their derangement based on Disassociative Identity Disorder(or something like that, I forget the exact name), both of their personalities being different. Therese might seem like a Venture, but nothing says that such a thing is impossible, just because you are part of a clan does not mean that you adhere to the cliche the clan is based on. In this case Jeanette does, Therese does not. But they are still the same person, the same clan.
Sacremas Posted October 12, 2015 Posted October 12, 2015 Yeah you didn't get anything of what I said? Â [EDIT: okay rereading it my statement was kinda vague and easily misinterprented actually, so here's a clarification] Â Okay last time I looked at Requiem was probably 10+ years ago because overall I didn't like the new mythos and I didn't have anyone to play it with, so a refresher; Vampire the Requiem has Bloodlines within the big clans (Venture, Gangrel, I don't remember what was folded into what, if Gangrel were Nosferatu or the other way around, who gives a shit), and Malkhavian is a Bloodline within the Venture clan rather than a clan of it's own. Basically it's a whole subset of their clan where I think it was their inbreeding (or vampiric equivalent at least) led to the insanity of the Malkhavians, Jeanette and Therese would still have belonged in the Ventrue clan, one half of them would just have gone down the rabbit hole of the Malkhavians and with the latter reveal it would make even more sense. I just found it interesting that a game named Bloodlines has a character that actually conforms pretty closely to how one of the new game's Bloodlines worked. Put in the fact that White Wolf views the game as canonical and a prequel to Gehenna (meaning Troika's portrayals of a lot of lore characters like Jack, Beckett and Cain the Cab Driver are likewise canonical) they may have even had access to WW's inner workings and had previews of what Requiem would be like (or at least was at that stage), and may even have taken some ideas and even the name of the game from this. Or hell it could have gone the other way, would not be first or last time that a third party multimedia product changed the PnP original for better or worse, maybe Malkhavians are a subset of Ventrue specifically because of Tourette Voerman. Â But whatever.
Aria Posted October 30, 2015 Posted October 30, 2015 Finished the game, had a blast again. Â Also my heart just jumped a little, Paradox has bought White wolf and all properties from CCP, could this mean we might see a Vampire game somewhere in the future? YES PLEASE! http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2015/10/29/paradox-white-wolf/
joemonco Posted October 31, 2015 Posted October 31, 2015 Any new game is going to suck. Â If they do find someone to take up the MMO it can't possibly live up to Bloodlines. Â Though it would be nice if they could update the engine of bloodlines so we no longer have to deal with we5p's nonsense just to get it to run.
Aria Posted October 31, 2015 Posted October 31, 2015 Maybe, but its still better then looking at ccp sitting on it for years and doing nothing...hell i would be just happy with a redemption-like game and as you said bloodlines updated to a new engine and fixed.
pinky6225 Posted October 31, 2015 Posted October 31, 2015 I have bloodlines and i've played it plenty of times and it is a very good game but i also have redemption that came before and i thought that did the experience of being a vampire - i.e living through hundreds of years of change much better since bloodlines feels like its all played out in a month of time so you go from a fledgling to a badass in almost no time which was the only thing that always bugged me about it.
MikeJones84 Posted October 31, 2015 Posted October 31, 2015 I remember one thing about this game: the hotel level with the ghost girl. At the beginning of the level you fall through the floor into the basement and the ghost walks by. I remember being genuinely creeped out by that level. It was really well made.
Sacremas Posted October 31, 2015 Posted October 31, 2015 Paradox's familiarity with Obsidian might mean a worthy Bloodlines sequel could happen now. Paradox published Obsidan's Pillars of Eternity (which got some pretty rave reviews overall) so might get them interested in a spiritual successor to Bloodlines. Obsidian houses several of the people that worked on Bloodlines, the ones who didn't go over to inExile that is (inExile = Troika renamed pretty much, a LOT of the same people, and both Troika and Obsidian split out of Interplay with Obsidian pretty much being the Black Isle devision) who Obsidian works with a lot, cooperating heavily currently on Torment Tides of Numera. However Obsidian has said that they'd like to develope their own IPs for a while, like Pillars. This also incidentally probably means that a New Vegas sequel could be a while off, but if there's any IP they'd be likely to want to return to it's both Fallout and Vampire. I remember one thing about this game: the hotel level with the ghost girl. At the beginning of the level you fall through the floor into the basement and the ghost walks by. I remember being genuinely creeped out by that level. It was really well made. Â It's actually my favorite haunted house scenario in any game ever. The game also has my favorite zombies area.
joemonco Posted November 1, 2015 Posted November 1, 2015 Obsidian houses several of the people that worked on Bloodlines, the ones who didn't go over to inExile that is (inExile = Troika renamed pretty much, a LOT of the same people, and both Troika and Obsidian split out of Interplay with Obsidian pretty much being the Black Isle devision) who Obsidian works with a lot, cooperating heavily currently on Torment Tides of Numera. Â Tim Cain is the only former Troika person left at Obsidian (that I know of) and he didn't really touch VtMB beyond late-stage bug fixing. Jason Anderson left inXile before Wasteland 2. Â Brian Mitsoda has his own studio, but it's still up in the air if Dead State is good enough to warrant another shot at WoD.
Myst42 Posted November 1, 2015 Posted November 1, 2015 That universe and that particular game was just one big epic masterpiece...  They could have continued it though or gave a more epic ending I really expected to see an Antedeluvian inside that chest, then it was just a bomb... not as epic as I expected but still didn't kept me from playing again on different characters. Most loved clans for me: Tremere, Malkavian and Nosferatu. Most of the clans I think were made by personaly type analysis I believe. Loved the magic and occult feeling about seeing the world though the eyes of someone who knows it's mysteries and what lies beyond as a Tremere. Then Malk's insanity has that taste for also perceiving things normal people don't, and how the world is batshit crazy and they just don't understand it like you do, understanding that madness, makes the world yours. Finally, Nosferatu have all the epic of being cursed to hide in the shadows always lurking in the dark forsaken from all things living.  I missed the disturbing lack of fireballs, frost spells or lighting when being a mage, but blood magic was awesome, could've been cooler if blood steal was better though... blood boil and blood mass steal ftw  Lots of things could actually be a lot better, like animations, weapons, magic, shooting, etc... But that roleplay... damn...  Also game was sexy as fuck, even with no actual sex in it. VV is still one of the sexiest characters ever made, I know everybody likes Jeanette, but Therese was cute too if you got on her good side, and then they were "2" Hell I even liked playing as a female Nosferatu with cleopatra syndrome and attempting VV's good side quest... even got that email about how she loves you and all... With some mods, even that lap dance.  Ahhh good ol' times... Shame the've never made another game like that... not that I've heard of... With today's tech... I only dare to dream of such marvel But enough nostalgia for today... let's get back to work.
bjornk Posted April 27, 2016 Posted April 27, 2016 It's now on GOG, finally.  https://www.gog.com/news/release_vampirer_the_masquerade_bloodlines  Still quite expensive though. Also, some people say that this is a censored UK version, don't know if it's true.
joemonco Posted April 29, 2016 Posted April 29, 2016 They include the "basic" version of we5p's patch mod so you may have trouble with other mods.
bjornk Posted April 29, 2016 Posted April 29, 2016 IIRC in the thread below the new article above, someone has said that the GOG installation also included vanilla files as well as modded ones, in case you'd need them for other mods. I might have misunderstood what he meant though. Â
joemonco Posted April 30, 2016 Posted April 30, 2016 It looks like they are installing the unofficial patch mod and using the source engine's mod flags for it. Â It's a shame as the True Patch Gold just works without any asshattery.
DeadSomething Posted July 14, 2016 Posted July 14, 2016 i still got an old copy of it lying around, so i installed it. too bad the Unofficial Patch is incompatible with the companions-mod. also too many outfits don't have jiggly breasts.
Blade_Runner Posted July 14, 2016 Posted July 14, 2016 Ah, this brings back good memories. This game had a undisputed spot on my PC for a decade (actually, now that i think of it, there's a backup on my external drive). Those were the days, I remember the wonderful pain in the buttocks that playing as a nosferatu was with fondness. And whomever haven't played a female malkavian for "the plot" shall throw the first stone!Also, Jeanette was the first video game character rendered in real time that gave me a true stir on the loins - so, she's actually the responsible for me being here today (i also believe that she's the true reason behind the whole Harley Quinn fetish thing going on nowadays).
merryMalfunctioning Posted July 23, 2016 Posted July 23, 2016 Is it just me, or does VTMB appear to have something very much like Skinned Mesh Physics? Hair and dresses flow and bounce and stretch without ever clipping through skin. It looks EXACTLY like the previews of HDT-SMP for Skyrim.
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