Male content call out!

[prinyo]

I find it interesting that SAM inspires people to make covering-skimpy armors while the armors created for SOS are all-out. There are like 3 or 4 revealing armors available for download for SAM.

I understand there are technical issues with SSE (as far as I understand you can't make a revealing armor for SAM Light), but this has been always the trend.

 

[LukeDuke]

Those which Kreiste made are revealing outfits for SAM Light for SSE..

[prinyo]

9 hours ago, LukeDuke said:

Those which Kreiste made are revealing outfits for SAM Light for SSE..

In my game they all wear underwear. What am I missing?

Also the description page of SAM Light explicitly says: " Revealing armor with "SAMRevealing" node not supported ". Is there another way to make them revealing with SAM Light?

 

I specifically used "covering-skimpy" and "all-out" instead of "revealing" because I have noticed that the word is more and more used instead of "skimpy" and there is no general agreement about what it means. It feels to me the lost meaning of "revealing" is part of the same process I was talking about earlier. As more skimpy outfits appeared the word was expropriated as a replacement for skimpy, probably because of the slutty connotations skimpy brings. But then if "revealing" is now used as "skimpy" we need a new word/term to carry the original meaning of the term.

[LukeDuke]

Ah you meant penis revealing, yeah in that case it's not that sinple but still possible. I saw some with revealing penis, for SAM Light, I believe even some of Kreiste work has them, available on VP site.

[prinyo]

1 hour ago, LukeDuke said:

Ah you meant penis revealing, yeah in that case it's not that sinple but still possible. I saw some with revealing penis, for SAM Light, I believe even some of Kreiste work has them, available on VP site.

Most of the outfits in those packs are not revealing by design, which confirmed the trend and made me post the comment. There is even a promise for options for the "panties"... Not that it is a bad thing, those outfits look really great in-game!

[SavrenX]

Revealing means the genitals exist. Loincloth considered revealing. Underwear considered skimpy because it removed the genitals. It's possible have revealing underwear too. When you can see genitals ( even from below ), that outfit considered revealing.

Revealing Loincloth and underwear :

[SavrenX]

Desert Dancer.

 

[Crag]

wait.. so why is SOS so much easier to make revealing armor for then SAM?

[prinyo]

6 hours ago, Crag said:

wait.. so why is SOS so much easier to make revealing armor for then SAM?

I think it is easier for SAM, you just need to add a node in Nifskope. The flag that the armor is revealing is in the mesh itself. For SOS you need to make and .esp - to find the armor in CK and add a keyword to it. If you are tweaking an armor chances are you already use Nifskope for something, so making it SAM revealing is just a small step in the process. It also fits in what you already do - you just add one node to a mesh. While the SOS revealing needs you to make a plugin - use CK, think of load order and conflicts.

 

However, just like SOS, only the Full version of SAM supports them. And there is no SAM Full for SSE. In theory this means that you can't have revealing armors for SAM in SSE at all. In practice I suspect somebody will find a workaround. (Some time ago I experimented with making revealing armors for SOS Light but when adding even a single layer of outfit the schlong and balls became static, debugging this is beyond my abilities.  But I guess somebody more knowledgeable  and experienced would be able to solve it. And I don't really know if the same issues will arise with SAM.)

 

But what I was talking about was that it is a creative design choice. If you look at all outfits ever published for SAM a very small part of them are revealing. And exactly the opposite for SOS. For me this was a factor (even if not the most important) when choosing between them so I have been following this trend since the times of Oldrim. Again - I see nothing bad in this, I just find it curious.

[Crag]

I gave up on SE and SAM. Basically because the HTD support is so much more in LE then SE right now. In LE its a trival matter for floppy balls (without using FloppySOS - which has too many issues). Also the armor -  even SOS is barely supported (even non-revealing armors) in SE. And forget about any custom armor. 

I was faced with redoing all my work I did over the years for IA and other custom armor mods, that I said forget it.  

 

I like SOS with the right addons. I like SAM too. But it's a personal taste really. To me SOS fits in more with the game. I WAS willing to use SAM in SE, but when I saw the [lack of] armor list - no. 

I don't use revealing armor much in my games - except in something like the Skyrim Bath House mod, or Bathing Beauties. I'm an immersive junkie - kind of hard explaining how Farkas can charge into battle in plate armor with his cock floppy about.

I take the same approach with the women. The females are good looking in my game, but no heels in plate armor. 


PS: Figures... 2 minutes after I post this I get this: 

It needs work but it's a start.

[kreiste]

@prinyo In regards of my own redux armor packs, I could easily make my armors revealing.

When I first started the project, I held a poll asking whether the community wanted skimpy, revealing, or trousers (because I'm only one person and it would double, if not triple the amount of work doing all of them at once). The winning vote was skimpy, which is why I went with sexy briefs/thongs/panties instead of just full baring dicks. 

 

As for my own personal preference, I've been playing Skyrim with SOS prior to SAM release; and to be quite honest, it's getting old swinging swords fully naked xD and judging from the aforementioned vote, I believe I'm not alone thinking so. I personally think just slight coverage on a male form is much more seductive than fully hanging out without a single thread (sort of, "you can look but you can't touch" haha)

 

Another of my point of view as a creator, I took great inspirations from amazing modders such as nisetanaka, baddog, deserterX who provide, if not the sexiest and most gorgeous skimpy, sexy female armors. Every time I see, for example, the amazing bikini armors of skyrim and their derivatives, I kept thinking why has no one made this for men? Thus sprout the idea for me to make my own refit inspired by these talented people. Many of their armors didn't explicitly reveal nipples and vaginas, but they still look hot and alluring (I'm also pansexual btw). I don't think there's any armors like theirs for men. 

 

I feel like, my problem with SoS-oriented armors, they are just regular armors with pants deleted and that's it. Even the revealing Tera Armors is that way. So you got this good-looking top half and then emptiness on the bottom. It didn't felt sexy to me, it felt like "oh these guys leave the house and forgot to wear pants" instead of enhancing the sexiness around the genitals. I believe someone did a conversion of SOS revealing armors (for oldrim though) in the earliest pages of Vector Plexus downloads section. Though it's true recently the armors released are more covered than what SOS used to have. (I think only stuffs by RefurbMadness' actually bothered to include panties) 

 

I hope that made it clear to you why I went with this decision, and pardon me for the wall of text!

[Guest]

dont mind the seam lol

[Harry Smackmeat]

19 hours ago, kreiste said:

Spoiler

 

@prinyo In regards of my own redux armor packs, I could easily make my armors revealing.

When I first started the project, I held a poll asking whether the community wanted skimpy, revealing, or trousers (because I'm only one person and it would double, if not triple the amount of work doing all of them at once). The winning vote was skimpy, which is why I went with sexy briefs/thongs/panties instead of just full baring dicks. 

 

As for my own personal preference, I've been playing Skyrim with SOS prior to SAM release; and to be quite honest, it's getting old swinging swords fully naked xD and judging from the aforementioned vote, I believe I'm not alone thinking so. I personally think just slight coverage on a male form is much more seductive than fully hanging out without a single thread (sort of, "you can look but you can't touch" haha)

 

Another of my point of view as a creator, I took great inspirations from amazing modders such as nisetanaka, baddog, deserterX who provide, if not the sexiest and most gorgeous skimpy, sexy female armors. Every time I see, for example, the amazing bikini armors of skyrim and their derivatives, I kept thinking why has no one made this for men? Thus sprout the idea for me to make my own refit inspired by these talented people. Many of their armors didn't explicitly reveal nipples and vaginas, but they still look hot and alluring (I'm also pansexual btw). I don't think there's any armors like theirs for men. 

 

I feel like, my problem with SoS-oriented armors, they are just regular armors with pants deleted and that's it. Even the revealing Tera Armors is that way. So you got this good-looking top half and then emptiness on the bottom. It didn't felt sexy to me, it felt like "oh these guys leave the house and forgot to wear pants" instead of enhancing the sexiness around the genitals. I believe someone did a conversion of SOS revealing armors (for oldrim though) in the earliest pages of Vector Plexus downloads section. Though it's true recently the armors released are more covered than what SOS used to have. (I think only stuffs by RefurbMadness' actually bothered to include panties) 

 

I hope that made it clear to you why I went with this decision, and pardon me for the wall of text!

 

 

I agree with that.  I say we need more loincloths.  I just use refurb outfits since they're not stupid.

Modular Clothing System's addon (Nexus) has a lot of thongs and skirts in it too, with male models included and set up (Dibella bless that modder), all SOS-friendly.

[Crag]

2 hours ago, Harry Smackmeat said:

I agree with that.  I say we need more loincloths.  I just use refurb outfits since they're not stupid.

Modular Clothing System's addon (Nexus) has a lot of thongs and skirts in it too, with male models included and set up (Dibella bless that modder), all SOS-friendly.

Yup. I could see Farkas charging into battle in a loincloth, with the proper bulge of course. But his cock hanging out? why wear clothes at all then? 

BUT this is LL, to each his own.

[prinyo]

23 hours ago, kreiste said:

I could easily make my armors revealing.

But how? Technically speaking, how would you make a revealing armor for SSE? 

23 hours ago, kreiste said:

The winning vote was skimpy,

Yep, I have noticed that the revealing armors have never been popular among the SAM users, this is part of the trend I was talking about. Additionally there is the "highbrow-lowbrow" attitude that hasn't produced any tension because it only exists in one of the "sides". Again, I'm not saying there is anything bad in this SOS-revealing - SAM-skimpy trend, I just find it interesting. 

23 hours ago, Crag said:

I'm an immersive junkie - kind of hard explaining how Farkas can charge into battle in plate armor with his cock floppy about.

So are you having them wear 5 layers of clothes from head to toe in the cold snowy Skyrim?

In a game where you shout at dragons, perform magic, trap souls to enchant weapons..., somehow fighting with uncovered cock doesn't look the most bizarre thing to me. You should increase their exposure in Aroused, two erect warriors fighting can look really cool. It is all about headcanon. It is up to the player how much of the RL limitations or  prejudices they want to bring with them to the power-fantasy sandbox.

23 hours ago, kreiste said:

I personally think just slight coverage on a male form is much more seductive than fully hanging out without a single thread (sort of, "you can look but you can't touch" haha)

Yep, as I said - this is a power-fantasy sandbox where the headcanon of the player is the most important factor. In my game the "fashion trends" have also changed thru the years while I was experimenting with this. There are several different approaches I have considered.

The one I like the most is that in that society the stigma and the power dynamics around the genitals never developed. The cock is no different than any other part of the body - so if an outfit would cover it or not is only a question of design. If the armor happens to cover it or not - as long as it looks OK to me I'm fine with it. 

But when the outfit goes out of it's way to cover, then there are two explanations. One been that the player brings the RL puritanism with them, which seems strange as the same player has also installed naked body replacers and sex mods. Or the power mechanic that you describe. Since it is all about the headcanon none of the options is "bad", as long as it works for the player. My personal view on this is that there are enough douches in RL...

23 hours ago, kreiste said:

panties

English is not my first language and the use of this word here is confusing me. Also I'm 48 years old and i'm conscious that I'm somewhat behind the current queer and gender trends even if I try to follow them. What is the role of panties in the armor?

 

I think your outfit packs are really well made and really look good on the NPCs (I'm playing in VR that raises the bar for "looking good" considerably as you see real-size people and objects). 

[LukeDuke]

LOL ?

[Harry Smackmeat]

7 hours ago, prinyo said:

So are you having them wear 5 layers of clothes from head to toe in the cold snowy Skyrim?

In a game where you shout at dragons, perform magic, trap souls to enchant weapons..., somehow fighting with uncovered cock doesn't look the most bizarre thing to me.

LOL I use Frostfall and, for the magic users, you can just cast a spell that warms you.  If you're really good at its governing school of magic you can probably run around Dawnstar butt naked.  So yeah, magic solves all problems.  Frostfall may be a mod, therefore non-canon, but it seems reasonable if you can stop a blade at your skin and bitch-slap a fireball away you can warm or cool yourself to survive an extreme environment (and I doubt it would be particularly difficult if we start out able to magically close wounds)...

Nords also have frost resist, and according to Morrowind they're hotter (giggity) than usual, leading to a few of them being nudists and nobody really gave a crap.  IIRC in Oblivion nobody even mentions it if you're naked.

In Daggerfall, followers of Dibella are often nude or in loincloths (even guys I think).

Then you have your Bosmer, who can range from civilized and imperialized to primal af (my favorite race because they're cute too).  In their land they're all 5 ft nothing Tarzans with no law.

 

In conclusion, unless you mod a law in (Sexlab adventures maybe?), nudity in Tamriel is canonically nowhere near as taboo as on Earth. (And the way of Dibella glorifies fucking for good measure   )

 

9 hours ago, Crag said:

Yup. I could see Farkas charging into battle in a loincloth, with the proper bulge of course. But his cock hanging out? why wear clothes at all then? 

BUT this is LL, to each his own.

...Why not cock out under a loincloth so we can perv it?

[Crag]

On 6/18/2020 at 2:52 AM, prinyo said:

So are you having them wear 5 layers of clothes from head to toe in the cold snowy Skyrim?

In a game where you shout at dragons, perform magic, trap souls to enchant weapons..., somehow fighting with uncovered cock doesn't look the most bizarre thing to me. You should increase their exposure in Aroused, two erect warriors fighting can look really cool. It is all about headcanon. It is up to the player how much of the RL limitations or  prejudices they want to bring with them to the power-fantasy sandbox.

 

As a matter of fact, yes, everyone in my game wears layers of clothing in the snow and cold. Frost/Campsite/Wet & Cold/iNeeds  player here. 

That said, I don't like revealing armor in battle. But that doesn't mean you cant dig it. It's your game, I did not mean to come across as some moral asshole. 

 

Bloodlines 2! Hot. I am excited for two games this year, Bloodlines 2 and Cyberpunk 2077. 

 

PS: I gotta start posting my men here. My men are muscled, heavily inked, hairy, with cock rings and pa's (though not all) , and some may  even be considered ugly compared to some of beauties I've seen in this thread. 

[Mez558]

On 6/18/2020 at 7:52 AM, prinyo said:

So are you having them wear 5 layers of clothes from head to toe in the cold snowy Skyrim?

In a game where you shout at dragons, perform magic, trap souls to enchant weapons..., somehow fighting with uncovered cock doesn't look the most bizarre thing to me. You should increase their exposure in Aroused, two erect warriors fighting can look really cool.

 

It's your game you are free to do what you want with it and in it. That is all the answer you need to give and there is no arguement anyone can make against that. None.

 

However, the response "There are dragons and magic so why is it unimmersive to have skimpy/revealing armour not protect against damage and the elements?" is as common an arguement as it is flawed, imo.

The reason it is unimmersive to many is that Dragons, Magic, Magical abilities are common and well established fantasy literature tropes/plot devices etc. Fighting naked, not so much.

Whilst it's not unheard of in history, with stories of some Greek, Viking and Celt warriors fighting bare chested to completely naked, I can't think of any fantasy fiction (that isn't fanfic) that includes this. So I find the "There are Dragons and Magic etc" argument a very weak one.

 

On 6/18/2020 at 7:52 AM, prinyo said:

It is all about headcanon. It is up to the player how much of the RL limitations or  prejudices they want to bring with them to the power-fantasy sandbox.

 

This. This is the only arguement anyone needs to give if someone critiques the content of anothers game as being unimmersive.

 

I once raised a point with someone's load order that they had all these "realism" mods. ineeds, frostfall etc but were looking for the skimpiest female armour replacers and I got the "Dragons and shit" response...

I didn't take it further since I realised that all he needed to say was  "It's my game and it's none of your fucking business."

But I do really appreciate your "Headcanon" argument, that is a great reply without actually saying "Mind your own business" ?

 

 

[Mez558]

There does seem to be a shortage of revealing male armour.

What there is seems to mostly be along the lines of "Reveal everything" whereas female armour (which is nealy all revealing) usually leaves something to the imagination.

Or put it another way, the majority of female armour mods you could wear to comicon and not get arrested.

The male armour (of the revealing/skimpy type) would get placed on the sex offenders register.

 

 

 

[prinyo]

8 hours ago, Mez558 said:

This. This is the only arguement anyone needs to give if someone critiques the content of anothers game as being unimmersive. [...] I didn't take it further since I realised that all he needed to say was  "It's my game and it's none of your fucking business."

I do not subscribe to the idea that any attempt of discussion needs to be seen as an attack. And I do not like the idea that we all need to hide in our own bubbles.

I went to great lengths (like repeating the headcanon point more than actually needed) to show that my posts are based on curiosity and not on judgement.

Years ago when I was a metal-head I had long conversations with a Michael Jackson fan about music and art. Looking for other points of view and having friendly discussions is always a good thing. If it was now we would have probably stayed hidden in our bubbles and any attempt for a dialog would have been a source of drama.

8 hours ago, Mez558 said:

The reason it is unimmersive to many is that Dragons, Magic, Magical abilities are common and well established fantasy literature tropes/plot devices etc. Fighting naked, not so much. Whilst it's not unheard of in history, with stories of some Greek, Viking and Celt warriors fighting bare chested to completely naked, I can't think of any fantasy fiction (that isn't fanfic) that includes this. So I find the "There are Dragons and Magic etc" argument a very weak one.

As I said - it is up to the player how much of the RL limitations or  prejudices they want to bring with them to the power-fantasy sandbox.

There have been many discussions about what makes an imaginary world immersive and the idea that I agree with is that it needs to be consistent and respect it's own rules.

I do agree that this argument (dragons and magic and stuff) has been misused too much. For example that famous tweet of Pete Hines : "not interested in discussing how realistic things are in an alternate universe post-apoc game w/ talking mutants and ghouls" who fails to understand (or pretends to) that the fans are complaining that the world is destroying itself because of refusal to follow it's own logic and rules.

However I believe that the argument is valid when discussing if something is pointed out as "wrong" because it doesn't match RL. So I don't agree with the idea that because fighting with cock out is not done in RL it can't happen in the imaginary world. In this case the argument about dragons and magic and stuff is perfectly valid.

As long as it makes sense within the world, is consistent and is part of the headcanon (the personalized lore) it is immersive and "believable".

It took some time for me to decide what to do with the women (the handful of them left when using SkyHunks) that were breaking my immersion by been fully clothed and finally resolved this by using "A little sexy apparel replacer" so now they obey the same lore as the men. My point been that it is inconsistencies in the world that break the immersion, not the elements that don't exist in RL.

 

8 hours ago, Mez558 said:

Or put it another way, the majority of female armour mods you could wear to comicon and not get arrested.

The male armour (of the revealing/skimpy type) would get placed on the sex offenders register.

The Dragonborn is a mass-murdering psychopath, not sure how his visit to comicon will end... Been an European I don't subscribe to the American notion  that nakedness is the biggest sin/crime.

8 hours ago, Mez558 said:

There does seem to be a shortage of revealing male armour.

What there is seems to mostly be along the lines of "Reveal everything"

The term "revealing" seems to be a source of a lot of confusion. Here on LL it has always been used as a "cock-out" indicator. For me personally this was settled the first minutes I used a body replacer as SOS uses the text "make revealing" as a discription for the functionality to render the dick on top of an outfit.

 

Bonus: Perfectly immersive Ancient Greece in 3D ?

 

[Mez558]

8 minutes ago, prinyo said:

The Dragonborn is a mass-murdering psychopath, not sure how his visit to comicon will end... Been an European I don't subscribe to the American notion  that nakedness is the biggest sin/crime.

 

 

 The downfall of a discussion by text is I'm not sure if I didn't make myself clear enough or you are intentionally misunderstanding me for comedic effect but the scenario was someone cosplaying with Skyrim revealing armour.

Also I am not commenting on the nudity laws of a country or the acceptance of nudity to a nation. My point of using Comicon, an event full of minors, is that it might be frowned upon to wear something that shows a lot of cleavage, midrift and legs walking around with your cock out would certainly get arrested.

I am pretty confident that, other than on a beach, that would be the result no matter what country you are from.

[prinyo]

5 hours ago, Crag said:

I gotta start posting my men here. My men are muscled, heavily inked, hairy, with cock rings and pa's (though not all) , and some may  even be considered ugly compared to some of beauties I've seen in this thread. 

Sound like a good idea to me. I enjoy seen the rendered images that mostly get posted here, but it would be cool to see "real pics" - actual game screenshots. They provide a different view to the world and can be a source of new ideas. 

[prinyo]

50 minutes ago, Mez558 said:

 

 The downfall of a discussion by text is I'm not sure if I didn't make myself clear enough or you are intentionally misunderstanding me for comedic effect but the scenario was someone cosplaying with Skyrim revealing armour.

Also I am not commenting on the nudity laws of a country or the acceptance of nudity to a nation. My point of using Comicon, an event full of minors, is that it might be frowned upon to wear something that shows a lot of cleavage, midrift and legs walking around with your cock out would certainly get arrested.

I am pretty confident that, other than on a beach, that would be the result no matter what country you are from.

My point was that I don't understand how the nakedness can be a bigger issue than the constant (and sometimes pointless) killing in a videogame. Like, I have always been confused by the complains about SL Defeat and other "combat-sex" mods for "promoting rape" while the excessive murdering is apparently perfectly fine...

I'm not talking about country laws, but the puritanism that is dictating what can or can not be included in a videogame or a movie. This is an ongoing discussion every time a new game comes up where people want to know if there are adult themes in it. The idea that the American soccer-mom is perfectly happy to buy for her kid a game with violence and killings as long as there are no nipples shown seems widely accepted.

On the other hand in Europe people generally accept nudity in art (even if that is slowly changing now under oversees pressure).

Added: This is not a political point, it is just different sensitivities in different markets, where one them is bigger, hence more important.

[Mez558]

36 minutes ago, prinyo said:

My point was that I don't understand how the nakedness can be a bigger issue than the constant (and sometimes pointless) killing in a videogame. Like, I have always been confused by the complains about SL Defeat and other "combat-sex" mods for "promoting rape" while the excessive murdering is apparently perfectly fine...

I'm not talking about country laws, but the puritanism that is dictating what can or can not be included in a videogame or a movie. This is an ongoing discussion every time a new game comes up where people want to know if there are adult themes in it. The idea that the American soccer-mom is perfectly happy to buy for her kid a game with violence and killings as long as there are no nipples shown seems widely accepted.

On the other hand in Europe people generally accept nudity in art (even if that is slowly changing now under oversees pressure).

Added: This is not a political point, it is just different sensitivities in different markets, where one them is bigger, hence more important.

 

I wasn't complaining about nudity of any sort.

I was mearly commenting on (or, I guess, complaining about) the lack of "skimpy" armour for men that doesn't expose their genitals.

 

Really it just boils down to a lack of male content and I guess just a simple fact that almost ALL female armour mods are skimpy even when the male version is not.
It's not even that it's limited to Skyrim modders since many are ports from other game franchises.

 

Spoiler

 

Case in point.

 

Although, using Eskyrim search I am finding a couple more than I thought existed. Mostly for SAM (but I am thinking of swapping back to SAM as I am no longer using the followers it was not playing nice with) and a couple of good ones that for the Dizona body, unfortunately.