Animal Mansion Reborn

[eflat01]

1 hour ago, MadMansGun said:

i also have a couple of fish animations: on land with male on fish, and in water with fish on female.

 

Nothing to do with anything here...

 

But reminds me back on FNV with SexOut there's was a prostitution mod. Part of becoming a prostitute you had to earn your whoring status (the higher your status the more you'd get paid - also the more options you had when picking up tricks) by doing some side-quests. One was at a casino where a boss tied you up on a post and abused you a bit - rough sex, BDSM type stuff. After three or four rounds of sex with the group of gangsters you'd pass out, wake up,  then notice they'd put fish in your vagina. When you talk to collect your money - made for an interesting conversation "What the fuck! You put a fish in me?" the boss said something like "While you were passed-out you dried up a little, so it lubed up your pussy so we could keep using it."... Basically it was fish which was in her like a dildo and the tail-end was sticking out.

Edited Saturday at 06:30 PM by eflat01

[Gristle]

22 hours ago, ItsJustPage said:

Now I might be a moron, but im having issues with AMR_Start Stage: 170
There is no dialogue from the Jarl to continue the quest. 
Forcing it to Stage: 180 exiting and re-entering the building did triggers the next step so I could continue. 

It could be some odd incompatibility I have just shoved this into the Neferam pack. 

Like killer905 said, you aren't supposed to make it to the Jarl, because you (should) get force greeted by the steward before you reach him. It sounds like a mod might be affecting the steward - Nenya or Tekla. But you don't miss much skipping to stage 180.

[Gristle]

14 hours ago, unwashed biomass said:

been testing a bit, in second horse sale (Morrowind Border) horse seller didn't had any dialouge, couldn't interact with him at all. He was just doing usual uninteractive npc comments.

When you walk down the hill after passing through the gate, you should hit a trigger box that starts a scene. The Redoran captain starts with "Imperial, these are fine-looking horses, but they're both stallions! You promised us a breeding demonstration." Did that scene play?

14 hours ago, unwashed biomass said:

Also i assume payment for work isn't yet implemented, hence suggestion, instead taking it from Thaena, maybe strongbox in Player Room?

It seemed unnecessary scripting and stages to give money to the PC who then gives it (or some of it) to Thaena. I also thought it was simpler if the animal sellers just sent the money to the mansion. How exactly the money gets used or split up, I haven't thought about really. I'll defer to @killer905 on that. But the mansion is definitely going to have expenses it needs to cover. 

[unwashed biomass]

4 minutes ago, Gristle said:

It seemed unnecessary scripting and stages to give money to the PC who then gives it (or some of it) to Thaena. I also thought it was simpler if the animal sellers just sent the money to the mansion. How exactly the money gets used or split up, I haven't thought about really. I'll defer to @killer905 on that. But the mansion is definitely going to have expenses it needs to cover. 

i meant, instead pestering Thaena about player cut, there could be strongbox in player room where cut would be placed

[unwashed biomass]

5 minutes ago, Gristle said:

When you walk down the hill after passing through the gate, you should hit a trigger box that starts a scene. The Redoran captain starts with "Imperial, these are fine-looking horses, but they're both stallions! You promised us a breeding demonstration." Did that scene play?

yea, my bad ive tmm 1 teleported there, in the middle of building my (finally) SE since vr set died so i thought ill test my yet another dream mod from you guys in meantime. There is no doubts, U are GOATS. cheers

[killer905]

7 minutes ago, Gristle said:

It seemed unnecessary scripting and stages to give money to the PC who then gives it (or some of it) to Thaena. I also thought it was simpler if the animal sellers just sent the money to the mansion. How exactly the money gets used or split up, I haven't thought about really. I'll defer to @killer905 on that. But the mansion is definitely going to have expenses it needs to cover. 

2 minutes ago, unwashed biomass said:

i meant, instead pestering Thaena about player cut, there could be strongbox in player room where cut would be placed

In that regard, the idea of “unwashed biomass” is a good one. The only thing is that the script would have to check which quests the PC has completed and, based on that, deposit the appropriate amount into the Strongbox once a week.

 

The mansion also has employees to pay (Eveli doesn’t really need the money). However, the PC is a business partner, and Thaena should share the profits.

If Thaena needs more money, she can ask the PC for a temporary loan.

[Gristle]

12 hours ago, unwashed biomass said:

I must say  overall test was without any major hickups, maybe navmeshes in AM area isn't yet completed (had issues with orcs bandits, npcs assigned to the task could follow me so i often had to moveto player them).

Not all ground areas in the mansion valley are navmeshed, but there should be a path (or two) anywhere anyone needs to go. This hasn't been an issue in any of the playtesting, in any case. I can set a 'preferred path' up the mountain. Perhaps that will help.

12 hours ago, unwashed biomass said:

Also sugestion: thou it is mountainous, maybe make it kinda warmer microclimate, as mostly its snowing there which is not good weather for AM activities that one and would feel better if it would be sunny, also is there a plan to make it Lux compatibile?

The area where the mansion sits is a Skyrim-defined weather region. I could change the weather patterns in that region, but that would likely conflict with weather mods. I could also change the borders of that region, but that would likely also conflict. The weather is being (temporarily) set to sunny during the outside animal shows.

[Gristle]

5 hours ago, Unicom1981 said:

Could someone check if the first three quest prompts for "Building the Business" are correct? After translating them into my language, the entries matched the actual events, but they only appeared—and were marked as "open"—after the task was already completed; since I knew what to do next, it wasn't a problem. As I said, this only applied to the first three notifications.

I checked in the CK and the objectives all looked correct. Also, I haven't seen any issue with these in playtesting.

[plutocene]

Ups, you did it again. This plugin forwards vanilla navmesh for Riverwood02, overwriting the unoffical skyrim patch. Since the plugin cannot load any higher, it will break any overhaul as well, such as JK's Riverwood. I removed the navmesh entry Riverwood02 from the .esp.

 

Spoiler

 

[Gristle]

1 hour ago, eflat01 said:

Maybe @Gristle had another mod beside the AMR dependencies in his SeEdit load when cleaning? 

No. Just AMR.

1 hour ago, eflat01 said:

@killer905 If I'm correct the mod does not  need the Navmesh Record form id 0005C3B1 at all - It's is in Riverwood02. @Gristle The mod is only placing down some xMarkerheadings and moving some npcs to them. SeEdit shows no navmesh records for Riverwood01 and Riverwood04, Riverwoodbridge also looks redundant and may not be needed all I see is form 000096F3 for it and there's no changes or objects place there by AMR.

I can probably get rid of the Riverwood02 navmesh record. I probably just saw some vanilla navmesh problem and fixed it. But it was my understanding this wouldn't cause any issues. (If another mod changed it, you'd just get whatever mod change loads last.)

3 hours ago, killer905 said:

I think Gristle used AutoClean SSEEDIT. 

Yes. The QuickAutoClean function.

3 hours ago, killer905 said:

From what i see we can manually remove edits for Riverwood01, Riverwood 04 and RiverwoodBridge. Riverwood02 are used for Dog Sale in Riverwood

Yes. That seems safe.  I think I'll just do this for now.

[Gristle]

2 minutes ago, plutocene said:

Ups, you did it again. This plugin forwards vanilla navmesh for Riverwood02, overwriting the unoffical skyrim patch. Since the plugin cannot load any higher, it will break any overhaul as well, such as JK's Riverwood. I removed the navmesh entry Riverwood02 from the .esp.

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

Thanks. I'll remove.

[plutocene]

30 minutes ago, Gristle said:

Thanks. I'll remove.

 

Also, check the records for Shors Stone, 6 navmesh entries, 3 Worldspace Tamriel and 1 for battle born farm. 

[ItsJustPage]

1 hour ago, Gristle said:

Like killer905 said, you aren't supposed to make it to the Jarl, because you (should) get force greeted by the steward before you reach him. It sounds like a mod might be affecting the steward - Nenya or Tekla. But you don't miss much skipping to stage 180.

The issue was COTN falkreath. the patch bundled in AMR isnt the latest version which is why the force greet wasn't triggering. 
I haven't yet tested the newest patch version.

[Gristle]

40 minutes ago, plutocene said:

 

Also, check the records for Shors Stone, 6 navmesh entries, 3 Worldspace Tamriel and 1 for battle born farm. 

In the case of Shor's Stone I had to flatten (EDIT: a small piece of) the terrain in order to have a reasonably flat and clear spot for dog sex that was out of town. (At least with vanilla Shor's Stone, it's pretty far out of town.) And, I adjusted the navmesh to match the new terrain. I could leave the old navmesh, but it might be too high above the flattened terrain to work properly. I don't know what the tolerance is for this. It might still work.

Edited Saturday at 08:47 PM by Gristle

[killer905]

@Gristle

I’m testing this on a male PC (no followers) and here’s what I’ve found so far. Alternatively, you can wait until I’ve tested the rest of the mods so you don’t have to release too many minor updates.

- The scene with Nuria and her mother starts in the blacksmith’s shop (outside) instead of in the middle of the road, and then they walk to the middle of the road.
- Not once did Callia have a scene on a chair with the Male PC.
- PC can still use the Drafting Table (I checked this on a save file from before AMR was installed).
- Derjala doesn’t cover herself after being caught by the PC.
 

[plutocene]

22 minutes ago, Gristle said:

In the case of Shor's Stone I had to flatten (EDIT: a small piece of) the terrain in order to have a reasonably flat and clear spot for dog sex that was out of town. (At least with vanilla Shor's Stone, it's pretty far out of town.) And, I adjusted the navmesh to match the new terrain. I could leave the old navmesh, but it might be too high above the flattened terrain to work properly. I don't know what the tolerance is for this. It might still work.

 

I strongly disagree with this kind of modding. This will likely cause conflicts with vanilla gameplay, conflicts with USKP, landscape fixes, locations overhauls, etc. Anyone with a location overhaul for shor's stone in example will either load your mod after, which may cause pathing issues, as in the screenshot of riverwood, or before, whereas your scripted event might be buggy, npcs get stuck, as your navmesh change may be overwritten. Unless you create an overhaul of a location that (with the explicit goal of changing it) I would strongly recommend to work with what you find in vanilla space, while you can do whatever you want in your own cell. Bear in mind, this is already the third time this caused me direct and reproducable issues in my load order.  

[Gristle]

1 hour ago, plutocene said:

 

I strongly disagree with this kind of modding. This will likely cause conflicts with vanilla gameplay, conflicts with USKP, landscape fixes, locations overhauls, etc. Anyone with a location overhaul for shor's stone in example will either load your mod after, which may cause pathing issues, as in the screenshot of riverwood, or before, whereas your scripted event might be buggy, npcs get stuck, as your navmesh change may be overwritten. Unless you create an overhaul of a location that (with the explicit goal of changing it) I would strongly recommend to work with what you find in vanilla space, while you can do whatever you want in your own cell. Bear in mind, this is already the third time this caused me direct and reproducable issues in my load order.  

Just to be clear, you think no vanilla terrain or navmesh should ever be changed, unless it's part of a ciry or town overhaul? I tend to agree with you if the location is a city or town, but in this case it's a dirt path outside of a town. In the case of Riverwood, that was just the CK doing its undesired stuff (despite subsequent Xedit cleaning). There was no intent to modify any terrain or navmesh in Riverwood. So, that's not really a comparable situation to the path near Shor's Stone, where I made a deliberate choice to alter terrain that was outside of Shor's Stone.

 

I just loaded up the Great Town of Shor's Stone as a test. No conflicts, although my flattened path area is gone, which makes the sex location a bit too high. Not ideal, but not a game-breaking issue.

 

In any case, I'm happy to be educated, happy to try to avoid conflicts, and happy to fix bugs and create patches needed to address conflicts, but I don't know if I can agree with never editing terrain or navmesh anywhere in Skyrim. The unintended conflicts (like in Riverwood) should and will certainly be fixed, but I don't see the need to change deliberate design choices unless someone reports an issue.

[Gristle]

23 minutes ago, Gristle said:

I just loaded up the Great Town of Shor's Stone as a test. No conflicts, although my flattened path area is gone, which makes the sex location a bit too high. Not ideal, but not a game-breaking issue.

No conflicts regarding terrain or navmesh with the Great Town of Shor's Stone. But playing further I see that that mod uses a different interior cell for Sylgja's house. So, a patch will be needed for that mod, but not for the reasons discussed above. 

[plutocene]

1 hour ago, Gristle said:

Just to be clear, you think no vanilla terrain or navmesh should ever be changed, unless it's part of a ciry or town overhaul?

 

It depends, I do not think the reason for your edit at shors stone is justified. Lets say you add an entire new location like a hut, then you have to make changes. But editing the landscape for a sex scene? Same goes for the College of Winterhold, disabling vanilla quests to serve your purpose and not even mentioning it in a disaclaimer is game breaking. I have spent hours debugging to figure out what was happening. Very rarely have I encountered mod issues like this, and those were unintended by the author. It can happen, sometimes it is not avoidable, but these changes here are not justified in my oppinion and cause more harm than good. Like I said, I have repeatedly encountered these issues, Im not looking for them. I havent even played the mod yet, and stumble over issues by chance. I spot them and understand whats happening, most people either dont know how to debug or dont care.

 

1 hour ago, Gristle said:

No conflicts regarding terrain or navmesh with the Great Town of Shor's Stone. But playing further I see that that mod uses a different interior cell for Sylgja's house. So, a patch will be needed for that mod, but not for the reasons discussed above. 

 

Thats great, I havent had the time to do a check on it yet, all I saw so far is 6 conflicting navmeshes in Xedit when I debugged Riverwood, thus issues are possible. But have you tested JKs? or Spaghettis, or Redbags etc? Its not possible to account for every scenario and mod of course and sometimes patches are nessecary, but these locations are very frequently modded, so any change could cause issues. Therefore, I would strongly advise against changes, unless you have a damn good reason to do so. And if you do, put it in the disaclaimer, like you specified that any mods changing borders like border overhauls may conflict. Then people at least know to expect issues and are prepared, as you stated i. e.: Mods that alter Sylgias House likely will need to be patched. 

 

Edit: Hm. The cell is ShorsStoneSylgjasHouse "Sylgja's House" [CELL:0001383A] I cant see a difference between AMR, Skyrim.esm or TGToS, or another mod touching it, what does change is the XCLN location and the boundaries. 

ShorsStoneSylgjasHouseLocation "Sylgja's House" [LCTN:000226B0] to ShorsStoneLocation "Shor's Stone" [LCTN:00018A4C], that change is forwared from USSEP. Do you reference this? Then its an issue indeed.

Edited yesterday at 01:26 AM by plutocene

[Gristle]

59 minutes ago, plutocene said:

Thats great, I havent had the time to do a check on it yet, all I saw so far is 6 conflicting navmeshes in Xedit when I debugged Riverwood, thus issues are possible. But have you tested JKs? or Spaghettis, or Redbags etc? Its not possible to account for every scenario and mod of course and sometimes patches are nessecary, but these locations are very frequently modded, so any change could cause issues. Therefore, I would strongly advise against changes, unless you have a damn good reason to do so. And if you do, put it in the disaclaimer, like you specified that any mods changing borders like border overhauls may conflict. Then people at least know to expect issues and are prepared, as you stated i. e.: Mods that alter Sylgias House likely will need to be patched. 

That all sounds fine and I will check those navmesh edits. JK's has been tested.

1 hour ago, plutocene said:

Edit: Hm. The cell is ShorsStoneSylgjasHouse "Sylgja's House" [CELL:0001383A] I cant see a difference between AMR, Skyrim.esm or TGToS, or another mod touching it, what does change is the XCLN location and the boundaries. 

ShorsStoneSylgjasHouseLocation "Sylgja's House" [LCTN:000226B0] to ShorsStoneLocation "Shor's Stone" [LCTN:00018A4C], that change is forwared from USSEP. Do you reference this? Then its an issue indeed.

You are right. The cell is the same cell. What changed is the mod pushes the original building down and puts a new building model in the cell. However, the new building model is smaller than the original and is not in the same X,Y position as the original building, meaning the trigger box I put in the cell is floating out in the void. I can create a patch to move the trigger box, but I also put several markers in the cell for packages to reference, and I don't see those in the camera view. They are still listed as records in the cell view, but I can't view them. So, I'm not sure how to move them to the correct positions. Hmmm. I can edit them, so I'll probably have to edit their x,y,z positions to make them visible.

[plutocene]

5 minutes ago, Gristle said:

That all sounds fine and I will check those navmesh edits. JK's has been tested.

You are right. The cell is the same cell. What changed is the mod pushes the original building down and puts a new building model in the cell. However, the new building model is smaller than the original and is not in the same X,Y position as the original building, meaning the trigger box I put in the cell is floating out in the void. I can create a patch to move the trigger box, but I also put several markers in the cell for packages to reference, and I don't see those in the camera view. They are still listed as records in the cell view, but I can't view them. So, I'm not sure how to move them to the correct positions. Hmmm. I can edit them, so I'll probably have to edit their x,y,z positions to make them visible.

 

I see. I missunderstood the issue because you can only see this in CK. I would therefore suggest to check any cell vanilla location you use for scenes and compare against the most common overhaul mods. TGC by Archinati  and Redbags  mods are the prime suspects afaik when they overhaul, they overhaul, while JK's stuff very often respects existing architecture, but not guaranteed. Sucks, but otherwise you'll get bug reports en masse at some point and then you probably can't remember what you did and where.  

[eflat01]

2 hours ago, plutocene said:

 

I see. I missunderstood the issue because you can only see this in CK. I would therefore suggest to check any cell vanilla location you use for scenes and compare against the most common overhaul mods. TGC by Archinati  and Redbags  mods are the prime suspects afaik when they overhaul, they overhaul, while JK's stuff very often respects existing architecture, but not guaranteed. Sucks, but otherwise you'll get bug reports en masse at some point and then you probably can't remember what you did and where.  

 

Correct JK's Skyrim barely ever touches navmesh there was only one conflict in Rorikstead and the mod has a patch for that which moves the markers placed by AMR for a scene location because AMR had placed the scene where a structure JK's had added. i.e. this scene would had been partly under the other side of the building,

 

Spoiler

 

 

 

JK's does not touch Shor Stone... It also has no navmesh changes in Riverwood. Rest assure however any mod which adds buildings is going to.

 

USSEP does a lot of navmesh  changes however and there are patches for many other mods for that - under normal conditions patches will be high in load order. Cutting Room Floor does more.

 

I've no clue on JK's outskirts, I'm sure that's going to be an issue with Whiterun outskirts.. I've a few edits outside the city with some minor mods but no interference.

 

I know there's no conflict with Spagehetti's Orc Strongholds.

 

Naturally Redbags, COTN, TGC and some other mods which edit towns will need a patch just because many actually change buildings but add them too... they'll change terrain which means they'll edit navmesh, some will even replace internal cells rather than rearrange.

 

Gristle and Killer discussed town locations and agreed that in worldspace being too close to towns may run into conflicts, so made a point to place scenes a bit away. It's also one of the biggest reasons they added most AMR beyond the outside the Skyrim borders.

 

Most dirty edits and added redundant records come from use of CK, you look at something in a cell or block to get an idea for what you're building and CK may think you touched it. It's easy to clean a small mod but cleaning a mod this size takes a bit of time because there are over 29000 records in AMR.... it's larger than Hearthfire. 

 

I tend to BOS in aesthetic for looks in architecture etc... 

Edited 21 hours ago by eflat01

[killer905]

1 hour ago, eflat01 said:

 

Correct JK's Skyrim barely ever touches navmesh there was only one conflict in Rorikstead and the mod has a patch for that which moves the markers placed by AMR for a scene location because AMR had placed the scene where a structure JK's had added. i.e. this scene would had been partly under the other side of the building,

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

 

JK's does not touch Shor Stone... It also has no navmesh changes in Riverwood. Rest assure however any mod which adds buildings is going to.

 

USSEP does a lot of navmesh  changes however and there are patches for many other mods for that - under normal conditions patches will be high in load order. Cutting Room Floor does more.

 

I've no clue on JK's outskirts, I'm sure that's going to be an issue with Whiterun outskirts.. I've a few edits outside the city with some minor mods but no interference.

 

I know there's no conflict with Spagehetti's Orc Strongholds.

 

Naturally Redbags, COTN, TGC and some other mods which edit towns will need a patch just because many actually change buildings but add them too... they'll change terrain which means they'll edit navmesh, some will even replace internal cells rather than rearrange.

 

Gristle and Killer discussed town locations and agreed that in worldspace being too close to towns may run into conflicts, so made a point to place scenes a bit away. It's also one of the biggest reasons they added most AMR beyond the outside the Skyrim borders.

 

Most dirty edits and added redundant records come from use of CK, you look at something in a cell or block to get an idea for what you're building and CK may think you touched it. It's easy to clean a small mod but cleaning a mod this size takes a bit of time because there are over 29000 records in AMR.... it's larger than Hearthfire. 

 

I tend to BOS in aesthetic for looks in architecture etc... 

The thing is, Redbags mods add new cells, so you end up having to do a lot more in the patch than you would with mods that only change the vanilla cells.

So instead of “FalkreathDeadMansDrink,” the mod adds a new “000FalkreathInn”
 

6 hours ago, plutocene said:

It depends, I do not think the reason for your edit at shors stone is justified. Lets say you add an entire new location like a hut, then you have to make changes. But editing the landscape for a sex scene? Same goes for the College of Winterhold, disabling vanilla quests to serve your purpose and not even mentioning it in a disaclaimer is game breaking. I have spent hours debugging to figure out what was happening. Very rarely have I encountered mod issues like this, and those were unintended by the author. It can happen, sometimes it is not avoidable, but these changes here are not justified in my oppinion and cause more harm than good. Like I said, I have repeatedly encountered these issues, Im not looking for them. I havent even played the mod yet, and stumble over issues by chance. I spot them and understand whats happening, most people either dont know how to debug or dont care.

While I agree with you that we shouldn’t change the terrain or vanilla quests, edits made outside of villages and towns shouldn’t matter. At best, another mod will revert those changes, and it’ll be as if nothing had been changed.

 

You’ve pointed out the problem in Riverwood and other places, and they’ll be cleaned up. 

 

And unfortunately, CK is a real junk-generator in this regard—you click but don’t actually move anything, and suddenly it’s registered as your edit. SSEEIT sometimes doesn’t even revert those edits for some reason.

 

As for testing various mods that alter Falkreath, etc., that would take too much time for us, yet in the Dev Topic after the announcement (let’s call it “Remaster”) of Animal Masnion, after half a year there were questions (very few) about when we plan to release it.

 

Unfortunately, some things may have slipped through the cracks and weren’t fixed or cleaned up.

[killer905]

@Gristle

More stuff i find:

- Eveli, after having sex with the Morrowind guards in barracks. She does not get dressed again.
- If the PC is male (female client only) and does not have a female follower, none of the three show quests will start.

[plutocene]

 

6 hours ago, killer905 said:

The thing is, Redbags mods add new cells, so you end up having to do a lot more in the patch than you would with mods that only change the vanilla cells.

So instead of “FalkreathDeadMansDrink,” the mod adds a new “000FalkreathInn”
 

While I agree with you that we shouldn’t change the terrain or vanilla quests, edits made outside of villages and towns shouldn’t matter. At best, another mod will revert those changes, and it’ll be as if nothing had been changed.

 

You’ve pointed out the problem in Riverwood and other places, and they’ll be cleaned up. 

 

And unfortunately, CK is a real junk-generator in this regard—you click but don’t actually move anything, and suddenly it’s registered as your edit. SSEEIT sometimes doesn’t even revert those edits for some reason.

 

As for testing various mods that alter Falkreath, etc., that would take too much time for us, yet in the Dev Topic after the announcement (let’s call it “Remaster”) of Animal Masnion, after half a year there were questions (very few) about when we plan to release it.

 

Unfortunately, some things may have slipped through the cracks and weren’t fixed or cleaned up.

 

If changes are reverted depends on the load order and the extent of changes. Any changes in the lanscape also bear problems for other reasons than PoIs, staying away from towns doesnt autmatically mean your'e not conflicting. In example, Landscape fixes and grass mods, Forest overhauls (e..g., NoTWL) as well as grass caching may conflict. I use all three. Yes, not everybody runs a 2.000 plugin load order but its 2026, no game in history has been modded to the extend Skyrim is.

 

I know CK is "junk" I have worked with Unity for 2 years it boggles my mind how you can create a scene in CK. I have made navmesh patches for Fallout 4 and that alone is borderline insanity and if it works, it always includes a test cell and ITM navmesh world data. 

 

As for testing, nobody asked you to do everything on your own. You can ask for help to test some bug/compatibility, i. e. test the quest routine in Shor's Stone under modded conditions. At the very least you potentially will be aware of more issues than you were before.

 

7 hours ago, eflat01 said:

I know there's no conflict with Spagehetti's Orc Strongholds.

 

Ahh crap you're there as well? Spaghettis stuff is mostly noninversive, but I use Orc Strongholds which might conflict, ahh lets face it, it will.