Is there a mod to balance the peace conference between stormcloaks & imperials?

[Guest]

I am doing a full playthrough I started yesterday, I wondered if anyone could tell me if there is a mod that balances the peace talks so it does not favor ulfric with no options to get a fair trade for peace.

Markarth is worth way more than Riften even with compensation for the slaughter at Karthwasten.

Winterhold is a non starter, the blades are there why not Elenwen, and I end up not giving a fair deal every time.

Ulfric just gets me in a murderous mood every time I hear him, see him, try to talk to him, I don't quite understand why Bethesda did not make him more of a champion of the people instead of the horses ass he is.

Between the three factions, Stormcloaks, Imperials, Thalmor, the Imperials is who doesn't really talk down to you.

 

Spoiler

 

[Miauzi]

Vor 12 Minuten sagte Raven 54:

Ich spiele gerade ein komplettes Durchspielen, das ich gestern begonnen habe. Ich habe mich gefragt, ob mir jemand sagen kann, ob es einen Mod gibt, der die Friedensgespräche ausgleicht, sodass Ulfric nicht bevorzugt wird und keine Möglichkeit besteht, einen fairen Tausch für Frieden zu erzielen.

Markarth ist selbst mit Entschädigung für das Massaker von Karthwasten viel mehr wert als Riften.

Winterhold ist kein guter Anfang. Die Klingen sind da, warum nicht auch Elenwen, und am Ende gebe ich jedes Mal keinen fairen Deal.

Ulfric versetzt mich jedes Mal in eine mörderische Stimmung, wenn ich ihn höre, sehe oder versuche, mit ihm zu reden. Ich verstehe nicht ganz, warum Bethesda ihn nicht eher zu einem Verfechter des Volkes gemacht hat, anstatt zu dem Pferdearsch, der er ist.

Von den drei Fraktionen Sturmmäntel, Imperiale und Thalmor sind es die Imperialen, die nicht wirklich von oben herab mit Ihnen reden.

 

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There are a few mods for the Civil War - but ultimately, this whole storyline is complete bullshit for me personally.

 

When I was still playing through the game, I reloaded this entire negotiation round several times (i.e., created a save point before it) until I got a halfway acceptable result.

If you don't want to favor the Strummantel asshole -> then send the Thalmor away at the beginning... then Ulfric owes the player something.

 

Or you can bypass all of that -> play out the entire civil war on the Imperial side until the "bitter end" - because then the conference in the monastery is no longer needed.

 

Ulfric was probably deliberately designed by the authors as an obvious asshole... because his entire rebellion for independence is pure selfishness.

 

Why did he kill the High King in a completely unfair "duel"? Only he himself masters this "voice of power" – a deadly long-range weapon in a close-quarters duel!

This Great King – himself a fervent nationalist – would have been ready to support the struggle for independence at any time... and of course, he would have become its "natural" leader. Only then would Ulfric not have been the leader – and that's ultimately what matters to him.

You just have to properly evaluate the conversation with the court magician in "Solitude"!

 

The fact that he is also a kind of "sleeper" agent of the Talmor – just "puts the icing on the cake"... the dosage of him in their message is very revealing.

 

Many independence movements in our own history have similar traits – in other words, they carried the "seeds of failure" within them from the very beginning due to the human vanity of their leaders.

 

Don't forget - the "Nords" are themselves extremely racist conquerors... they hate virtually every race - whether humans (like the Bretons in Markath) or elves.

 

But of course, every player sees something different on these "projections."

[Darkpig]

1 hour ago, Raven 54 said:

I am doing a full playthrough I started yesterday, I wondered if anyone could tell me if there is a mod that balances the peace talks so it does not favor ulfric with no options to get a fair trade for peace.

Markarth is worth way more than Riften even with compensation for the slaughter at Karthwasten.

Winterhold is a non starter, the blades are there why not Elenwen, and I end up not giving a fair deal every time.

Ulfric just gets me in a murderous mood every time I hear him, see him, try to talk to him, I don't quite understand why Bethesda did not make him more of a champion of the people instead of the horses ass he is.

Between the three factions, Stormcloaks, Imperials, Thalmor, the Imperials is who doesn't really talk down to you.

 

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I don't think there is one because the lead up to the quest was stupid to begin with. Paarthurnax said you could persuade the Jarl of Whiterun and for some reason even if you do pass the persuasion check Jarl Balgruuf still won't help you out. Balgruuf said it himself that Alduin is the sign of the end times. If Alduin is ending the world the Yarl cannot Idly wait for the war to calm down. Mind you this is after Irileth and the rest of the guards fought a dragon with the much needed detail that you are in fact Dragonborn. Being the Dragonborn is such a big fuckin deal that even the Greybeards and Jarl Balgruuf acknowledges you as such. There is no army in the open fields of Whiterun with nary but a letter from either side of the war. Luring a dragon into your palace is risky but since dragons are already attacking the citizens of Whiterun within it's walls the Jarl doesn't have much to lose. And believe me Jarl Balgruuf cares about his people. Just get a mod to skip it like this one:

https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/52704

[Dragon on the Web]

2 hours ago, Miauzi said:

 

Why did he kill the High King in a completely unfair "duel"? Only he himself masters this "voice of power" – a deadly long-range weapon in a close-quarters duel!

 

Just a correction, Ulfric did *not* use the voice against Torrig in the duel at all. It was only at the conclusion, after the king had lost.
In other words, it was a show of "you're so weak I didn't even need to use my strongest weapon to defeat you".
I would also like to mention that according to Skyrim custom the duel was completely legal.

[belegost]

Use At Your Own Pace Main Quest module and it will skip Season Unending entirely. Balgruf will help you regardless of the state of Civil War. Dragonborn and the mighty Greybeards have no business in stepping so low as to meddle with an internal conflict of what is essentially two flea-ridden cats fighting over a scrap of rotting fish somewhere in the back end of a harbour alley.

 

EDIT:

I see @Darkpig already mentioned this mod. Consider mine a second opinion. Use it and leave cats to their own devices. This is somebody else's problem.

Edited May 11, 2025 by belegost

[Speed Metal]

There's also Civil War Fuck Off - No Season Unending. It's what I use to skip this entire bullshit.

[Miauzi]

Vor 1 Stunde sagte Dragon on the Web:

Nur eine Korrektur: Ulfric hat die Stimme im Duell überhaupt nicht gegen Torrig eingesetzt. Erst am Ende, nachdem der König verloren hatte.
Mit anderen Worten, es war eine Show nach dem Motto „Du bist so schwach, dass ich nicht einmal meine stärkste Waffe einsetzen musste, um dich zu besiegen.“
Ich möchte auch erwähnen, dass das Duell gemäß den Gepflogenheiten in Skyrim völlig legal war.

 

There's no mention of them fighting each other with swords at all in the game!

 

A duel with just swords would have been legitimate – a fight with unequal weapons (i.e., sword against "magic voice") is not a duel, but cowardly, premeditated murder... a murder of one's own king!

 

What you learn from the game is Ulfric's immediate attack with his "magic voice" - a sonic attack with which you can "scream" enemy warriors from a fortress wall.

 

That's why Ulfric always dies – if I even feel like dealing with the civil war... which also means that Alduin usually lives on.

 

Vor 25 Minuten sagte Speed Metal:

Es gibt auch „Civil War Fuck Off – No Season Unending“ . Damit überspringe ich diesen ganzen Mist.

 

I would install just such a wonderful mod - if I intended to get involved with Alduin.

[woodsman30]

6 hours ago, Raven 54 said:

Markarth is worth way more than Riften

For the Imperials Riften has an enormous value see map  is offers another corridor to Cyrodiil. Just an example of how inept Ulfric is for giving it up. The weather and roads are far better making a direct route for resupply for the Imperials simple. From a Military stand point Markarth is land locked in the mountains and could  be cut off with no chance of resupply being easily won by attrition. For me making Maven Jarl is all that matters she in one of my favorite Npc because in all reality the Dragonborn could take any city at anytime. So who ever rules is not relevant because in the end they rule by your consent only.....just my opinion. 

[belegost]

9 hours ago, Raven 54 said:

the Imperials is who doesn't really talk down to you.

Listen carefully to what Tullius says to Rikke inside the castle and you will change your opinion.

[Guest]

10 hours ago, Miauzi said:

Or

 

9 hours ago, Darkpig said:

I don't think there is one

Agreed, a missed opportunity for those of us playing.

 

8 hours ago, Dragon on the Web said:

according to Skyrim custom the duel was completely legal.

Legal does not always equate to Right, a bully will always choose weaker prey.

 

7 hours ago, Speed Metal said:

what I use to skip this entire bullshit.

Like I said I am doing a complete playthrough this time.  I will keep this link, thanks.

 

4 hours ago, woodsman30 said:

of how inept Ulfric is for giving it up.

Ulfric was trying to make a statement, I want this. Beyond Skyrim - Bruma could tie in well here too. Good point about re supply which is what Tullius said in the meeting.

 

1 hour ago, belegost said:

Listen carefully to what Tullius says to Rikke inside the castle and you will change your opinion.

I have, it is far less demeaning than the Ulfric experience in my opinion.

 

 

Thanks for all of your comments here.

I have played this game since release, too many times to count, but have not done a Full playthrough in quite some time, plus I loaded a mod "There is no Umbra" and it is a late game mod so I decided on trying to complete the major steps in the game before starting Umbra.

I do not wish to start a Ulfric vs Imperial war of words, I just have never liked him and always choose to end him myself.

I was more interested to see if there was any mods out there that attempted to fix this, or a rework of it. In my opinion a mod to fix this would be great.  

 

https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/89089                    There is no Umbra

Edited May 11, 2025 by Raven 54

[Miauzi]

5 hours ago, woodsman30 said:

Für die Kaiserlichen ist Rifton enorm wertvoll (siehe Karte), da es einen weiteren Korridor nach Cyrodiil bietet. Ein Beispiel dafür, wie unfähig Ulfric ist, es aufzugeben. Wetter und Straßen sind deutlich besser, was eine direkte Nachschubroute für die Kaiserlichen vereinfacht. Militärisch gesehen liegt Markarth in den Bergen eingeschlossen und könnte abgeschnitten werden, ohne dass Nachschub möglich wäre. Es könnte leicht durch Zermürbung erobert werden. Für mich ist die Ernennung von Maven Jarl das Einzige, was zählt, sie ist einer meiner Lieblings-NPCs, da der Drachengeborene in Wirklichkeit jederzeit jede Stadt einnehmen könnte. Wer regiert, ist also irrelevant, denn letztendlich herrscht er nur mit deiner Zustimmung … nur meine Meinung. 

 

Markath also has a high "symbolic" value—because this area is strictly NOT "Sky's Edge."

Why do I make this statement?

It has less to do with "geography" than with (politically motivated) "history-writing" -> for the "Nords" (as conquerors), the term "Skyrim" stands -> as the land that was "wrested" from the elves (especially the Snow Elves aka Fal-Mer).

 

Now, however, the area of Markath has been populated by Bretons since "distant times" – thus, it was never the settlement area of the Fal-Mer or other elven peoples... except for the Dun-Mer, who disappeared 3,800 years ago.

 

And here comes the drama with Ulfric -> he was with his relief army in the north of Cyrodil and didn't reach the imperial capital in time.

Even worse – he was captured and fell into the clutches of the Talmor – who skillfully manipulated him.

At the same time, the original Breton population of Markath used this opportunity to gain THEIR To fight for their OWN independence... and Ulfric had to recapture the city upon his return.

 

Just listen to the prisoners in the Cidna Mine... the Nords are themselves barbaric conquerors and human-slayers – in no way inferior to the Alt-Mer (aka Thalmor).

 

And here comes the political aspect: Ulfric tries to portray the "Nords" as a poor, oppressed people... to conceal the fact that they are, in fact, brutal conquerors with a deeply racist agenda.

 

Would Ulfric stop (waging war) if he had won the civil war and crowned himself High King?

If he had the means, he would emulate his great role model, "Talos of Atmora" (aka Tiber Septim), and make himself emperor of all Tamriel.

Fortunately, the Dun-Mer "Golem" ("Numidium") no longer exists!

https://elderscrolls.fandom.com/de/wiki/Tiber_Septim

 

[woodsman30]

55 minutes ago, Miauzi said:

Ulfric tries to portray the "Nords" as a poor, oppressed people... to conceal the fact that they are, in fact, brutal conquerors with a deeply racist agenda.

Very true but are also very lazy Windhelm is a prime example a complete hole in the wall falling apart with no plans to fix it and including cannot even catch a murder. Windhelm has even tried to stop trade via the east empire company blockade. Dawnstar run by a Stormcloak sympathizer cannot even fix their sleep issue far to worried about the war. Ulfric is a prime example of a patsy and does not even know it.

[Guest]

My memory is slipping, wasn't Ulfric a Thalmor prisoner for a bit, or was that an added mod scenario?

 

                     "Gettin old ain't for Sissies"!                          

Edited May 11, 2025 by Raven 54

[Miauzi]

Vor 8 Minuten sagte Raven 54:

Meine Erinnerung lässt nach. War Ulfric nicht eine Zeit lang ein Thalmor-Gefangener oder war das ein hinzugefügtes Mod-Szenario?

 

„Älter werden ist nichts für Weicheier“!                  

 

Have you even read my posts?

Well, here's a link to the "TES Wiki"

https://elderscrolls.fandom.com/de/wiki/Ulfric_Sturmmantel_(Skyrim)

 

His interrogation transcript and the Talmor's comments can be found in the embassy - the goal of the infiltration is to find out whether the Talmor know anything about the return of the dragons or even initiated it.

 

Vor 51 Minuten sagte woodsman30:

Das stimmt, aber sie sind auch sehr faul. Windhelm ist ein Paradebeispiel für ein völlig zerfallendes Loch in der Mauer, ohne dass Pläne zur Reparatur bestehen und nicht einmal ein Mörder geschnappt werden kann. Windhelm hat sogar versucht, den Handel durch die Blockade der Ostimperiumsgesellschaft zu stoppen. Dawnstar, das von einem Sturmmantel-Sympathisanten geführt wird, kann nicht einmal sein Schlafproblem lösen, viel zu besorgt wegen des Krieges. Ulfric ist ein Paradebeispiel für einen Trottel und weiß es nicht einmal.

 

The entire province has been severely weakened by years of war – its population is exhausted and "thinned out"... public order is out of the question due to the hordes of bandits (mostly former soldiers)... but of course, in this situation, a civil war would still start – out of pure vanity or a bruised ego.

 

One could still understand if the "Stormcloaks" – who are concentrated in large camps – would at least occasionally fight the bandits.

But none of that - the bandits hold the strategic points in the form of old fortresses or fortifications... the battle-hardened "freedom fighters" camp in tent camps... "somewhere in the middle of nowhere"

 

This whole Polt (the civil war) is simply very poorly staged by the writers... such power struggles between power groups after major wars are nothing unusual, though.

 

That Ulfric is a complete idiot -> can be seen in the fact that, although he owes his life and freedom to Alduin... he doesn't immediately conclude that he immediately ends his childish rampage (the civil war) and devotes all his efforts to protecting - at least his own precious people (the "Nords") - from the clutches of the dragons!

[MorePrinniesDood]

32 minutes ago, Raven 54 said:

My memory is slipping, wasn't Ulfric a Thalmor prisoner for a bit, or was that an added mod scenario?

 

                     "Gettin old ain't for Sissies"!                          

 

Lemme copy-pasta from that Thalmor report you can find in Diplomatic Immunity:

 

Background:
Ulfric first came to our attention during the First War Against the Empire, when he was taken as a prisoner of war during the campaign for the White-Gold Tower. Under interrogation, we learned of his potential value (son of the Jarl of Windhelm) and he was assigned as an asset to the interrogator, who is now First Emissary Elenwen. He was made to believe information obtained during his interrogation was crucial in the capture of the Imperial City (the city had in fact fallen before he had broken), and then allowed to escape. After the war, contact was established and he has proven his worth as an asset.The so-called Markarth Incident was particularly valuable from the point of view of our strategic goals in Skyrim, although it resulted in Ulfric becoming generally uncooperative to direct contact.

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, Miauzi said:

Have you even read my posts?

Sorry I have real bad vision from a botched cataract surgery, reading for more than a half hour is painful as well as difficult from the outset.

A few posts is not a problem but page fulls are.

 

Reading all the lore books is difficult as well and as I said my memory is not as good as it used to be, I have read all the books but it e=was over 2 years ago.

Edited May 11, 2025 by Raven 54

[Miauzi]

Vor 2 Stunden sagte Raven 54:

Leider habe ich aufgrund einer misslungenen Kataraktoperation eine sehr schlechte Sehkraft. Lesen für mehr als eine halbe Stunde ist von Anfang an schmerzhaft und schwierig.

Ein paar Beiträge sind kein Problem, volle Seiten schon.

 

Es ist auch schwierig, alle Überlieferungsbücher zu lesen, und wie ich sagte, ist mein Gedächtnis nicht mehr so gut wie früher. Ich habe alle Bücher gelesen, aber das ist über zwei Jahre her.

 

Sorry - I didn't take that into account - which means I'll be using larger font in my posts in the future - so that your eyes are less strained.

 

 

 

[Guest]

9 minutes ago, Miauzi said:

 

Sorry - I didn't take that into account - which means I'll be using larger font in my posts in the future - so that your eyes are less strained.

 

 

 

       I like it!     <---  This is my blind emoticon...  

Edited May 11, 2025 by Raven 54

[belegost]

4 hours ago, MorePrinniesDood said:

 

Lemme copy-pasta from that Thalmor report you can find in Diplomatic Immunity:

 

Background:
Ulfric first came to our attention during the First War Against the Empire, when he was taken as a prisoner of war during the campaign for the White-Gold Tower. Under interrogation, we learned of his potential value (son of the Jarl of Windhelm) and he was assigned as an asset to the interrogator, who is now First Emissary Elenwen. He was made to believe information obtained during his interrogation was crucial in the capture of the Imperial City (the city had in fact fallen before he had broken), and then allowed to escape. After the war, contact was established and he has proven his worth as an asset.The so-called Markarth Incident was particularly valuable from the point of view of our strategic goals in Skyrim, although it resulted in Ulfric becoming generally uncooperative to direct contact.

 

There is a follow-up of sorts on this information if you have Skyrim Sewers and find and read a certain journal. There is really nothing concrete, and the remarks are very vague, but if you already know the above, it could cast a very different light on the whole Civil War kerfuffle if you were to extrapolate both its content and the circumstances where it can be found.

 

On the other hand, that mod also has "Love letter from the 5th Era" found near a peculiar Dwemer-looking capsule and subtle references to C0DA, so make of it what you will.

Edited May 11, 2025 by belegost

[Just Don't]

https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/33067

[Guest]

4 hours ago, Just Don&#x27;t said:

https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/33067

Like I said I wanted to do the complete playthrough, no skipping, I do appreciate your input though.  

[Just Don't]

43 minutes ago, Raven 54 said:

Like I said I wanted to do the complete playthrough, no skipping, I do appreciate your input though.  

You can still do the rest of the CW questline, all that mod does is remove Season Unending from the MQ. It's also possible to skip this quest if you advance CW in either side up to the Battle for Windhelm/Solitude or if your side has 8 out of the 9 holds. So all the mod does is allow you to do CW at any point without popping up in the middle of your MQ even if you haven't started CW at that point.

Edited May 13, 2025 by Just Don't

[DocClox]

On 5/10/2025 at 11:34 PM, Dragon on the Web said:

Just a correction, Ulfric did *not* use the voice against Torrig in the duel at all. It was only at the conclusion, after the king had lost.

 

According to whom?  I know the "shouted him apart" thing is rumour and exaggeration, but I'm not aware of anyone in game who claims that the Voice wasn't used until after Torygg lost a conventional duel.

[Dragon on the Web]

20 hours ago, DocClox said:

 

According to whom?  I know the "shouted him apart" thing is rumour and exaggeration, but I'm not aware of anyone in game who claims that the Voice wasn't used until after Torygg lost a conventional duel.

I swear I did hear this from an NPC at some point, and I know it wasn't a mod because it was both voiced and from before we started having the AI-generated voice lines for mods. The only way it could be a mod is if it was restored unused content.

[DocClox]

4 hours ago, Dragon on the Web said:

I swear I did hear this from an NPC at some point, and I know it wasn't a mod because it was both voiced and from before we started having the AI-generated voice lines for mods. The only way it could be a mod is if it was restored unused content.

 

I mean it's possible. I've not explored the Stormcloak side of the game in much detail, mainly because Ulfric annoys the hell out of me. Closest I can think of though is Ulfric saying that shouted Torygg off his feet and then stabbed his sword into Torygg's heart.

 

In any event, TES lore does like its unreliable narrators. You can find NPCs saying all sorts of stuff, much of it contradictory.