MSMA: SexFight (like "Succubus Drain") and Bimbofication

[MSM_Alice]

On 4/6/2025 at 9:27 AM, Mimirue17 said:

I tried it both ways, the sex until exhaustion did not effect the message showing then another scene starting after what was supposed to be the last one.

here are the settings currently being used

 

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

 
 

 

 

Try this one, and please send me the papyrus script if any oddities:

 

 

Edited February 19 by MSM_Alice

[Mimirue17]

2 hours ago, MSM_Alice said:

Try this one, and please send me the papyrus script if any oddities:

 

MSMA_v0_7301.zip 13.31 MB · 1 download

basically the same thing happened - when scene 4 of 5 ended - the retreat process started but then another scene started and got interrupted as the frenzied people started attacking each other.   I turned on logging in fallout 4.ini as well as in violate.   here is the log.   not sure what to do with all those errors at the start of the logging and if thats effecting this.

 Papyrus.0.log

[MSM_Alice]

51 minutes ago, Mimirue17 said:

basically the same thing happened - when scene 4 of 5 ended - the retreat process started but then another scene started and got interrupted as the frenzied people started attacking each other.   I turned on logging in fallout 4.ini as well as in violate.   here is the log.   not sure what to do with all those errors at the start of the logging and if thats effecting this.

  Papyrus.0.log 170.08 kB · 0 downloads

thank you. 

Indeed   we are getting closer.


What I was suspecting indeed seems to happen in your case: 

MSMADebug:Error: This is a likely follower Violate scene started even though MSMA thinks the last Violate Scene already occurred, and no new scenes should be started at this point.

 

I'll add more debug traces specifically around this case to narrow it down and will give you a new zip file
Do you have mods that can also spawn random sex scenes (outside of the violate context, in parallel?)

Edited April 6, 2025 by MSM_Alice

[Mimirue17]

14 minutes ago, MSM_Alice said:

thank you. 

Indeed   we are getting closer.


What I was suspecing seems to happen in your case: 

MSMADebug:Error: This is a likely follower Violate scene started even though MSMA thinks the last Violate Scene already occurred, and no new scenes should be started at this point.

 

I'll add more debug traces specifically around this case to narrow it down and will give you a new zip file
Do you have mods that can also spawn random sex scenes (outside of the violate context, in parallel?)

no, outside of me using AAF to start scenes.   Sex Em Up is the only other trigger but that is something that would need to be initiated through hotkeys. 

[Mimirue17]

17 minutes ago, MSM_Alice said:

thank you. 

Indeed   we are getting closer.


What I was suspecing seems to happen in your case: 

MSMADebug:Error: This is a likely follower Violate scene started even though MSMA thinks the last Violate Scene already occurred, and no new scenes should be started at this point.

 

I'll add more debug traces specifically around this case to narrow it down and will give you a new zip file
Do you have mods that can also spawn random sex scenes (outside of the violate context, in parallel?)

if it will help, I can spend the time to go get Piper as a companion to try this as she is a normal npc in the game.   Brooke is an npc through Boston Breeder and based on the logs does not have a race assigned to her for scaling.

[MSM_Alice]

On 4/6/2025 at 3:07 PM, Mimirue17 said:

if it will help, I can spend the time to go get Piper as a companion to try this as she is a normal npc in the game.   Brooke is an npc through Boston Breeder and based on the logs does not have a race assigned to her for scaling.

Try this one, and if weirdness still happens give me the new papyrus log. 

It should log a lot more things around why extra scenes with followers or player would erroneously be started past the moment when I detect the max number is reached (or why am I counting them erroneously).

No need to switch to Piper, it shouldn't be relevant if you are using Brooke or Piper as I am not checking the race of the followers,
I'm not expect it  to be any different, but if you want to do it, it is a good experiment  to try. 
It is true, I do test with Piper.


 

 

Edited February 19 by MSM_Alice

[MSM_Alice]

@Mimirue17

 

The only other aspect that is more off the beaten path that I could see in your settings, is that you have " rounds until submission" set to 10,  higher than rounds until exhaustion, set to 5. 
Usually submission should be  less or equal , not greater than exhaustion.
But I don' t think that should be able to cause real problems, and the mod should be able to handle such a configuration, even if irregular. 
 

[Mimirue17]

1 hour ago, MSM_Alice said:

@Mimirue17

 

The only other aspect that is more off the beaten path that I could see in your settings, is that you have " rounds until submission" set to 10,  higher than rounds until exhaustion, set to 5. 
Usually submission should be  less or equal , not greater than exhaustion.
But I don' t think that should be able to cause real problems, and the mod should be able to handle such a configuration, even if irregular. 
 

ya I set it that way as I do not think that someone who is using sex as a weapon would really become submissive, which would very quickly become total submissive if set even a few rounds before ending.   Its kind of a role play thing, and like you said wouldn't effect anything as far as outcomes of violate goes.   I went and got Piper, so will use her on the next test after I get some sleep.

[MSM_Alice]

2 hours ago, Mimirue17 said:

if it will help, I can spend the time to go get Piper as a companion to try this as she is a normal npc in the game.   Brooke is an npc through Boston Breeder and based on the logs does not have a race assigned to her for scaling.

I think I found it. 

I was my own wrong assumptions that did me in

The number of scenes when compared against the max (which is that rounds until exhaustion), in MSMA I was counting both follower scenes  and player scenes summed up
However round counting in AAF logic seems to only take into account player rounds (and in MSMA I was counting both).
When followers were not available as targets that was naturally working the same both ways. But when they were MSMA and AAF had different ideas about when the Violate AAF scene chain is supposed to be ending.

 

Because this is the opposite way of how it works with "used up" aggressors, (those get can used up in both follower scenes and player scenes, not only in player scenes). that confused me. 

 

Currently Cooking a 7303 that should be good-to-go.
I will also have an additional fallback:  such as when MSMA decides the scene sequence should be over, it will also ask AAF to end the sequence too so that things are  in sync.

 

Edited April 6, 2025 by MSM_Alice

[MSM_Alice]

@Mimirue17 finger crossed that this covers all possible case combinations  (with one follower or even with more than one follower)

 

Edited February 19 by MSM_Alice

[Mimirue17]

5 hours ago, MSM_Alice said:

@Mimirue17 finger crossed that this covers all possible case combinations  (with one follower or even with more than one follower)

MSMA_v0_7303.zip 13.31 MB · 1 download

the rounds are now correct, however there is a problem with sexfight.   After the 1st round sexfight is not active for rounds 2-5 receiving the error message player not in a AAF scene when you try to use emergency off hotkey.   No sexfight activations work during this period.   I tested this with Brooke and Piper.   Here is the log.

 

 Papyrus.0.log

 

I will test as solo to see if it functions correctly and let you know.

 

Edit: its broken for solo as well, same effects.   Should I try this on new start accelerated to bimbo level and level 15?

Edited April 6, 2025 by Mimirue17

[MSM_Alice]

20 minutes ago, Mimirue17 said:

the rounds are now correct, however there is a problem with sexfight.   After the 1st round sexfight is not active for rounds 2-5 receiving the error message player not in a AAF scene when you try to use emergency off hotkey.   No sexfight activations work during this period.   I tested this with Brooke and Piper.   Here is the log.

 

  Papyrus.0.log 183.58 kB · 0 downloads

 

I will test as solo to see if it functions correctly and let you know.

That is a different aspect, and the papyrus log does nothing for it on 0.7303, as there are no traces places around that issue.

Can you tell me the exact error message, word by word,  and specifically which " emergency off key"  you are using? (Sexfight off, or punishment toggle off?)

Edited April 6, 2025 by MSM_Alice

[MSM_Alice]

1 hour ago, Mimirue17 said:

the rounds are now correct, however there is a problem with sexfight.   After the 1st round sexfight is not active for rounds 2-5 receiving the error message player not in a AAF scene when you try to use emergency off hotkey.   No sexfight activations work during this period.   I tested this with Brooke and Piper.   Here is the log.

 

  Papyrus.0.log 183.58 kB · 1 download

 

I will test as solo to see if it functions correctly and let you know.

 

Edit: its broken for solo as well, same effects.   Should I try this on new start accelerated to bimbo level and level 15?

Tried different approaches, one by one, or multi scene by multi scene, sexfight seemed to work fine, in the first scene and in any scene past the first. 
All tested with Piper though.
 

Edited April 6, 2025 by MSM_Alice

[Mimirue17]

Think my mod list is a little heavy script wise, and updates mid game tend to have a hard time.  Will run a new game when I get home and retest multiple senerios

[MysticDaedra]

Coming back to FO4 for another playthrough, your mod has been on my mind for a while for when I come back. Finally going to give it a try Question: how "required" is Nuka Ride? My current installation just isn't very compatible with NR at the moment, and while I could theoretically get it working with some effort, I'd rather not go through that just to get a single other mod working. If NR is missing from my load order, will this mod still function normally/properly?

 

Also are the formids needed for the french nails mod hardcoded, or can I safely compact that .esp into an ESPFE file?

Edited April 7, 2025 by MysticDaedra

[Mimirue17]

ok clean start, removed Boston Breeder as its another script heavy mod that I am not really using right now.  Still getting the bug where only the 1st scene has sexfight working, the rest of the scenes do not register for the mod so sexfight is not available.   I will go back a few versions and see if its working in those.

2 hours ago, MysticDaedra said:

Coming back to FO4 for another playthrough, your mod has been on my mind for a while for when I come back. Finally going to give it a try Question: how "required" is Nuka Ride? My current installation just isn't very compatible with NR at the moment, and while I could theoretically get it working with some effort, I'd rather not go through that just to get a single other mod working. If NR is missing from my load order, will this mod still function normally/properly?

 

Also are the formids needed for the french nails mod hardcoded, or can I safely compact that .esp into an ESPFE file?

Nuka Ride is only needed for some of the bimbo outfits offered, some piercings and animations.   It will still work without it you will just get some empty items on the menu with Marina and probably a few warning messages.

[MSM_Alice]

3 hours ago, MysticDaedra said:

Coming back to FO4 for another playthrough, your mod has been on my mind for a while for when I come back. Finally going to give it a try Question: how "required" is Nuka Ride? My current installation just isn't very compatible with NR at the moment, and while I could theoretically get it working with some effort, I'd rather not go through that just to get a single other mod working. If NR is missing from my load order, will this mod still function normally/properly?

 

Also are the formids needed for the french nails mod hardcoded, or can I safely compact that .esp into an ESPFE file?

To add to the above, to what Mimirue17 said, yes, the French nails are referenced by form IDs, and the FormIDs are hardcoded.

All recent releases have full script sources included, but the scripts ar not really neat optimized for external"consumption" yet. Still, if you are experienced with Papyrus scripting, and REALLY want to go into the "belly of the beast, you can go and ( with a lot of effort)   alter the ESP presence checks to hinge off a different esp file, and alter the formids in all the MSMA scripts and, so in theory you can make it work without the french nails esp and original formids but the total effort might not be worth it.
 

Edited April 7, 2025 by MSM_Alice

[Mimirue17]

here is the message I am getting scenes 2-5

 

[MSM_Alice]

28 minutes ago, Mimirue17 said:

here is the message I am getting scenes 2-5

 

 

  Hide contents

 

 

 

 

 

What is puzzling is that the variable that tells that switch you are in a sex scene or not is set to true rather early in the OnAnimationStart event that AAF fires. 
Will have to place more traces around that understand how it could happen for that variable to be not true (or to be true, then set back to false), while the player is still in the Sex scene.


Any additional context that you think is useful, please feel free to share.  
(by context I mean:   brand new new playthrough or upgrade,  happens with follower but not without follower,  happens if follower is a valid target or not, and so on, NG version or Pre NG things like that)

If you are experienced with Papyrus scripting,  script sources are included with the mod. 

I have only some very loose suspicions now, for instance, in some cases, an AAF animation end event seems it can trigger before its equivalent animation start event,  for the same Scene.
Maybe something like this happens here ( if something cancels that animation very early in its start stages). 
The challenges I need to reproduce this behaviour over here to fix it, and so far I  can't get it to reproduce.  

Edited April 7, 2025 by MSM_Alice

[Mimirue17]

it appears to be in an idle state waiting for it to recognize the next scene as if you hit the implant hotkey you get this

 

 

 

 

 

 

and here is the papyrus log though I am not sure its showing anything to help.   Not sure what happened when I upgraded to 703 this started and even if I go back to 700 it still acts this way, even on a new start....and this is a solo act, no companions

 

 

 

Papyrus.0.log
 

 

Edited April 7, 2025 by Mimirue17

[MSM_Alice]

20 minutes ago, Mimirue17 said:

it appears to be in an idle state waiting for it to recognize the next scene as if you hit the implant hotkey you get this

 

  Hide contents

 

 

 

 

and here is the papyrus log though I am not sure its showing anything to help.   Not sure what happened when I upgraded to 703 this started and even if I go back to 700 it still acts this way, even on a new start....and this is a solo act, no companions

 

  Hide contents

 

Papyrus.0.log 79.58 kB · 0 downloads
 

 

That is very useful context.
I will probably give you a 704 with more paprys logging, but not right away, as I do have work during the day 

The fact that you go several version back, to specific versions you know for a fact worked okay for you in the past, but now they don't  ( ! ),   even on a brand new game ( !! ),  would indicate the issue perhaps has been there for a while, dormant, and is triggered contextually,   linked with some specific mod/MCM settings combination. Those MCM settings can save independently of any save files in the MCM settings folder.  (either AAF settings, Violate MCM settings, or MSMA MCM settings). 

I don't think it will be easy to catch/reproduce, unless I put in a lot more papyrus log traces around the issue. 

 

Edited April 7, 2025 by MSM_Alice

[Mimirue17]

5 minutes ago, MSM_Alice said:

That is very useful context.
I will probably give you a 704 with more paprys logging, but not right away as I do have work during the day 

 

no worries, its 1am here in AZ and I have today off so I will check back during the day.   If nothing else I will just have it turned off while I do story content or settlement building.

 

Edit:  I have have a save before the vault, and before leaving the vault for easy restarts before the mod starts

Edited April 7, 2025 by Mimirue17

[Mimirue17]

8 minutes ago, MSM_Alice said:

That is very useful context.
I will probably give you a 704 with more paprys logging, but not right away as I do have work during the day 

The fact that you go several version back , and those version that worked  okay for you in the past, , but now they don't  ( ! ) , even on a new game ( !! ), would indicate the issue perhaps has been there fora while, dormant, and is  triggered contextually linked with some specific mod/MCM settings,  that might save independently of save files  (either AAF settings, Violate MCM settings, or MSMA  MCM settings). 

I don't think it will be easy to catch/reproduce, unless I  put in a lot more papyrus log traces around the issue. 

 

I will remove, and reinstall AAF, Violate, MSMA and clear all the caches of created files in MO2

[Mimirue17]

ok after refreshing and reinstalling everything and extensive testing everything works solo.   Will proceed to testing with companions later tonight.   Started with 7300 and am currently on 7303 on a fresh game.   Did see 2 quirks but no really breaking anything.

 

Wedge said bad - redo etc however he said that was amazing when asked for materials and paid 500 so it was best result.

 

Marina menu option to lower bimbo scores resulted in menu options if chosen as 1st item.   After using bimbo points the option did work (costing 1000) but did not get the normal message and sequence that I was expecting from the early versions.

[MSM_Alice]

Rolling out an early  experimental version of 0.7310 (with some extra papyrus logging for @Mimirue17's specific issue which I haven' t been able to repro on my side at all)

@MysticDaedra if you are  not too far along you might want to give this a try with a new game

Changelog: 0.7310 (a new game is ideal)

• A first version of Codsworth and his many arms helping the player with their cravings (when they develop) with less nasty side effects than if handled in the wild. 

              There's a lot to say but will let you uncover it. 

              When you visit Marina while you are affected by cravings, she should suggest retrofitting Codsworth to help with that. 

              From that moment on when you talk with Codsworth he will volunteer to help with various aspects of the cravings. 

              Naturally you need to have some valid MrHandy animations packs in installed for AAF. This functionality is MCM toggleable, in case you find him too annoying.
 

• More music overall (20 music tracks total now). (also some Codsworth specific music) 
• Corrected a smattering of smaller bugs and typos 
• New option for MSMA SexFight to allow for AAF animation who do not have the correct Sex tags, to also be considered valid for SexFight (suspecting this might be a potential  cause for Mimirue17's mysterious issue perhaps -using some animations that were not correctly tagged as sex anims, that violate still picks, but MSMA discards)

Specifically for @Mimirue17, to help find the issue, aside the extra targeted papyrus logging that this version does focused on that issue,  there's also specialized script code hooked to the


hotkey 1 dev key,  that you can map in the MCM


When pressed, it should offers a snapshot of how are certain 2 key variables at any point in time (used to determine if the player is in an aaf animation or not, and thus is sexfight can start). 
- 1 First determined the normal way
- 2 Second, determined in a new alternate way , via AAF keywords 


@Mimirue17 once you map it you can just spam that key every once in a while and see in the popup that appears if things are okay.
If you see that the values of the two variables diverge, and then do not reconverge soon after, then you've found the trigger for the bug. 

MSMA_v0_7310.zip

Edited April 8, 2025 by MSM_Alice