MSMA: SexFight (like "Succubus Drain") and Bimbofication

[MSM_Alice]

On some new games it works and some new games it does not and I don't have the foggiest why not. 
Will keep looking but definitely something is off

Util it can be found, best advice is to   only add  MSMA  to your load-out once you get to post-war

[MSM_Alice]

50 new game start later I don't feel i am any closer to solving the mystery. 
Sometimes it works sometimes it does not.
Maybe a more experienced modder can chime in.
As far as I can tell it is random.
I have no clue what other aspects are affected but the start i can see two elements : 
The TV in the living room sometimes it works sometimes it does not

The Vault tech rep sometimes he  talks  and sometimes it does not.

They tend to go together but not always, 
I 've had the TV work and The vault tech not, and vice versa. 

It is super puzzling as neither should hinge on anything that my mod would do later. 

 

Best advice: start the mod after the pre-war. 

Edited September 14, 2025 by MSM_Alice

[Slip0213]

Y'know what.  Most people probably don't even play that part of the game.  I tend to run from the beginning mostly because I change some mods around each time I start a new playthrough.  I don't mind setting the stage to force him to talk when I need to.

 

You worked on this bug during my sleep hours and I feel bad for mentioning it.  Sorry about that.  I agree with your workaround.  I'll not mention that Ghoulish perv ever again.  

 

[MSM_Alice]

It is bugging me because of what it means in the grander picture, rather specifically this problem and than the vault rep himself.

Means there is some randomness that is unaccounted for. 

 

 

This one is no good either, because it no longer initializes correctly because I re-wrote the initialization path :D 
Will have to tinker some more

Edited September 14, 2025 by MSM_Alice

[JemappelleRedacted]

Quick one on my way to bed: I really want to like the new system, being able to double bind helps but being subject to collision makes things a tad more awkward than expected: ended up in Limbo and got jammed inside the van (thought it was either a stylistic choice or a follower issue at first), but after experimentation it's furniture specific: went to the breeding den and found the SM van, pickup, traffic light, and patio table anims all jam on the statics, Small Jail Cell (MF) is located in such a manner that you can move around a bit, but the cell door blowjob sticks inside the door, and although the Dogmeat Toilet anim isn't inherently affected it ran afoul of the same cluttered/enclosed space problem as the jail cell.

 

Slightly more confusing, after the first animation I lost use of tab for light or pipboy use (not uncommon with failed or long violate chains, but literally first anim, run to completion, immediately after starting the game is odd), and after a few tests in the pit I lost the ability to use left click on menus or popups (right click worked on popups at least) and sporadic failure in test punches. Maybe it doesn't like Q being used to drop the point of view?

 

Possibly a 7827>7830 upgrade artifact as well, but I suspect it's more likely an animation level issue (something like the camera position being centered on the furniture, and the character's being offset from that point?). Sadly TCL didn't help, because frankly I love the idea of being shit talked by a fragment of my character's brain while trying to maintain composure in Fuckhalla 😂

[MSM_Alice]

33 minutes ago, JemappelleRedacted said:

Quick one on my way to bed: I really want to like the new system, being able to double bind helps but being subject to collision makes things a tad more awkward than expected: ended up in Limbo and got jammed inside the van (thought it was either a stylistic choice or a follower issue at first), but after experimentation it's furniture specific: went to the breeding den and found the SM van, pickup, traffic light, and patio table anims all jam on the statics, Small Jail Cell (MF) is located in such a manner that you can move around a bit, but the cell door blowjob sticks inside the door, and although the Dogmeat Toilet anim isn't inherently affected it ran afoul of the same cluttered/enclosed space problem as the jail cell.

 

Slightly more confusing, after the first animation I lost use of tab for light or pipboy use (not uncommon with failed or long violate chains, but literally first anim, run to completion, immediately after starting the game is odd), and after a few tests in the pit I lost the ability to use left click on menus or popups (right click worked on popups at least) and sporadic failure in test punches. Maybe it doesn't like Q being used to drop the point of view?

 

Possibly a 7827>7830 upgrade artifact as well, but I suspect it's more likely an animation level issue (something like the camera position being centered on the furniture, and the character's being offset from that point?). Sadly TCL didn't help, because frankly I love the idea of being shit talked by a fragment of my character's brain while trying to maintain composure in Fuckhalla 😂

 

Yes, the camera itself is what subject to collision, (and not the player), so TCL is not helping, and tfc makes the menu and subtitle go away. 

I guess i will add a hotkey to toggle the free cam mode on and off at will, dynamically  but while in free cam the subtitles and menu selection DO go away, and there' s no way to make them appear in free cam as far as I can tell.

I also got that thing where left click stopped working, I have no idea what could do that. 
Things are not easy

 

Maybe on all furniture animations I need to default to freecam mode, and accept those wont' ever have menus or subtitles. 

 

Edited September 14, 2025 by MSM_Alice

[Slip0213]

I am trying to fuck some corn out of Wedge.  For whatever reason my performance wasn't up to snuff though I'm not sure why as I answered every call pretty quickly.

 

Once the scene was over Wedge told me we could do it with more enthusiasm.  The conversation prompt was blank with no options to choose yes or no to a second take.  It might be worth noting that they did break my mind in that scene.

 

EDIT: Also, on my previous shoot with Wedge, I managed to cook Wedge.  The scene ended gracefully but immediately long before the shoot time elapsed.

 

Edited September 14, 2025 by Slip0213
Another note

[Slip0213]

I have completed all the Wedge scenes and it has brought a couple of questions to mind.  As I did the Wedge scenes my sex reputation remained at 0 even though someone was spying from a distance.  This seems like a bug but maybe not?

 

Also, my bimbo progression continuously fell rather than climbed.  This particular issue has been around for as long as I can remember.  It seems near the beginning of the game my bimbo progression is higher, maybe around 30% or so.  From then on it falls to near 0 before earnestly beginning bimboification.  Is this by design?

 

 

[MSM_Alice]

1 hour ago, Slip0213 said:

I have completed all the Wedge scenes and it has brought a couple of questions to mind.  As I did the Wedge scenes my sex reputation remained at 0 even though someone was spying from a distance.  This seems like a bug but maybe not?

 

Also, my bimbo progression continuously fell rather than climbed.  This particular issue has been around for as long as I can remember.  It seems near the beginning of the game my bimbo progression is higher, maybe around 30% or so.  From then on it falls to near 0 before earnestly beginning bimboification.  Is this by design?

 

 

Hmm..
Specifically, on which version of the mod, and was it an upgrade or a new game ?

Trying to sort out what happens with the Vault rep at the start,  I did make significant changes to how and when all quests initialize. 
if you are on the one with the modifications ( before I took it down) there might be some consequences from that unfortunately  .
I think I have a 7841 with most of them fixed though.

Edited September 14, 2025 by MSM_Alice

[MSM_Alice]

1 hour ago, Slip0213 said:

I have completed all the Wedge scenes and it has brought a couple of questions to mind.  As I did the Wedge scenes my sex reputation remained at 0 even though someone was spying from a distance.  This seems like a bug but maybe not?

 

Also, my bimbo progression continuously fell rather than climbed.  This particular issue has been around for as long as I can remember.  It seems near the beginning of the game my bimbo progression is higher, maybe around 30% or so.  From then on it falls to near 0 before earnestly beginning bimboification.  Is this by design?

 

 

Depends on what happens.
I don't code in a certain progression, is based on actions.

The fame due to movies and rumors increases slowly, they need to circulate.
You might see it next day or the day after that. 
Of course if by that time you change your looks dramatically enough and enough times (using Marina';s services that you pay BP for) , you might not be as recognizable.
 

Edited September 14, 2025 by MSM_Alice

[MSM_Alice]

I think this is today's release candidate. 
Will test a bit more, specifically around wedge's corn fail branch, but I think this is it. 

 

Edited February 19 by MSM_Alice

[Bimbolover9454]

Trying out the prostitution function, worked once on garvey, but now when I select the hotkey to do it again nothing happens

[MSM_Alice]

15 minutes ago, Rocketman5461138 said:

Trying out the prostitution function, worked once on garvey, but now when I select the hotkey to do it again nothing happens

Hello

Perhaps You are on an old version where visiting Wedge for caps block new prostitution sessions ( until Piete's betrayal)  because the flag of visiting wedge and being mid filming was not being correctly cleared when leaving Wedge.
The latest version should sort it out. 
Most of those flags are global, that can also be set or cleared it via the game console in a pinch.

 

What does the debug option (that I put in specifically to monitor this)  say the that reason for the non-start is?
Does it say " Did not start because you're filming movies with Wedge",  or something else ?

Edited September 14, 2025 by MSM_Alice

[Bimbolover9454]

I am on the new version. What is the console command to reset it?

[MSM_Alice]

6 minutes ago, Rocketman5461138 said:

I am on the new version. What is the console command to reset it?

It is different based on the cause.
What does the debug option identify as the cause ?

if you are sure that is the cause in your case as well, read here: https://www.loverslab.com/topic/245511-msma-sexfight-gameplay-bimbofication/page/62/#findComment-7128851

You post flagging  the issue was ~ 20 minutes ago, latest official version went up on the main page almost 19 minutes ago. 
Pretty sure you are not on the latest latest :D.

Edited September 14, 2025 by MSM_Alice

[Bimbolover9454]

Tried the debug and it says i am already in a charm / prostitutions session

[MSM_Alice]

1 hour ago, Rocketman5461138 said:

Tried the debug and it says i am already in a charm / prostitutions session

Then it means something happened and the flag did not clear last time you did  a session. Will have to look into it.
set msma_WhoringInSession to 0.0 should do it.

[MSM_Alice]

Putting here a patched version specifically for Codsworth, (but not on the main page, because I didn't have enough time to test everything else)

Somehow Codsworth Craving management quest had ended up with priority 0 and would never run.
I don't know how or why, I don't remember setting it to a perfect 0 ever. 

Who knows maybe this was what was causing the strangeness with the vault rep dialogue on a new game start. 

It has more normal values now.


At any rate, if you want a restore functional Codsworth as a craving management machine   use 0.7843,  and then either start a new game OR run the following in the console  on your existing game.
stopquest MSMA_CravingsManager 

resetquest MSMA_CravingsManager 

start MSMA_CravingsManager 
setstage MSMA_CravingsManager 10

MSMA_v0_7843.zip

Edited September 14, 2025 by MSM_Alice

[JemappelleRedacted]

12 hours ago, MSM_Alice said:

Things are not easy

Feels like the engine is held together with poor decisions, duct tape, and wishful thinking sometimes 😅 That said, the tab failure being consistent after the first anim is troubling but may end up showing us what causes it.

 

13 hours ago, MSM_Alice said:

Maybe on all furniture animations I need to default to freecam mode

Feels like a huge missed opportunity, especially in Fuckhalla when it's only some furniture that's affected...the hotkey should be sufficient for the most part. Perhaps an animator or someone more versed in the camera can help? Maybe a dialogue camera with the adjustment hotkeys could work? 🤞

[Mimirue17]

37 minutes ago, JemappelleRedacted said:

Feels like the engine is held together with poor decisions, duct tape, and wishful thinking sometimes 😅 That said, the tab failure being consistent after the first anim is troubling but may end up showing us what causes it.

 

Feels like a huge missed opportunity, especially in Fuckhalla when it's only some furniture that's affected...the hotkey should be sufficient for the most part. Perhaps an animator or someone more versed in the camera can help? Maybe a dialogue camera with the adjustment hotkeys could work? 🤞

losing control of menues and items like that could be linked to being in a Ghost state, as I know that has weird effects on character control.   

As far as Bimbo Limbo = I have noticed the pickup (the one with the bed down) has some weird results.   The SM bed (tires with wiring on top) has almost always worked, the Van with the side door opened has usually worked as well.   I do not recall having any issues with the pickup in MHK but I could be wrong.   Maybe send Vaultbait a message as that mod is all about SM sex with furniture.

[MSM_Alice]

Well 7841 and above now  have the hotkey-ed toggle to free cam/orbit cam , so perhaps that is enough for now. 
Maybe I should add some speed setting to it, as movement speed in free cam mode feels a bit sluggish, but overall seems to work.


Now I haven't built and released any external scenes with selectable dialogue yet, (right now it is mostly QoH saying lines)  but internally I ran some test and I quite liked the added complexity this brings to AAF scenes, with and without sexfight.

I know that in some ways this was done before with popup windows, but this feels less experience-fracturing as a multiple choice popup that .. pops up , pauses everything in the background until you make a choice.

Not to mention that, because it is not a popup, QoH can also comment in parallel on that dialogue multi choice .
Not just before or after the  choice is done, now QoH comments can flow while the multi choice is on screen, without necessarily force-closing it, perhaps even advising and opining in real time what choice might be best.
 
I can't see what answer options the player would be hovering their mouse above, and have that be an input too, but there's a lot I have access to and can have QoH or other aspects in the quest react to that.
It can make AAF scenes in later spy missions quite interesting/worthwhile.


Maybe I should have QoH herself nudge the player to switch back to orbit cam if the player is in free cam mode, literally spelling out that "Hey there's a choice requiring your attention that you are not seeing?" or something along those lines

Edited September 15, 2025 by MSM_Alice

[MSM_Alice]

The more I think about it,  the more "right" a dynamic flexible approach sounds.

Orbit camera can have 4 settings/switch states

 

A.  OFF-   AAF camera is free-fly camera ( just like before).  Going to Orbit  camera is button actuated, only happens if the switch button is pressed.

B.  Auto Switch Light  - AAF camera is  free-fly camera, but auto switches to orbit mode when there are dialogues going and choices to be made, once that is over then goes back . 

C . Auto Switch  Heavy  - AAF camera is free-fly camera, but auto switches to orbit when there are Subtitles to be seen  or  dialogue with choices to be made, then when those are made, goes back. 

D.  ON - AAF camera is Orbit camera most of the time.  Going to Fly camera is button actuated, only happens if the button is pressed. If not going to orbit then the subtitles or dialogues will be missed. (Functionally same as A except it starts on Orbit not on FreeFly)

And MCM setting where everyone can choose if they prefer A B C or D.
 

Edited September 15, 2025 by MSM_Alice

[JemappelleRedacted]

  

17 minutes ago, MSM_Alice said:

hotkey-ed toggle to free cam/orbit cam

Speed seems fine to me, and moving Cogsworth from dialogue to key activation is an elegant solution.

 

Ran a few tests to a; try get OrbitCam out of the truck then swap back and hope it'd stay outside and b; if the Tab error can be directly attributed to OC. OrbitCam set to off in MCM, toggling from FreeCam to OC locks you to the OC initial position, adjustment keys don't function and toggling back doesn't switch to FC but can allow QoH to speak and doesn't innately break tab. Next animation, started with OC set on in MCM and yep, tab stopped functioning.

 

This is where I add my customary "my setup is special" warning: it takes me 12+min to load a save, so testing something that breaks the flashlight button suuuuucks but also means that insofar as diagnosing issues, unless there's supporting data or you get inspiration on what might be causing it, may just be a "me" problem and not something to stress over too much 💖

 

3 hours ago, MSM_Alice said:

Orbit camera can have 4 settings/switch states

Honestly, if the control lockout can be fixed, I'd probably sit on C or D...but that thrice-damned pipboy light bug is functionally game breaking for my setup 😩

 

1 hour ago, Mimirue17 said:

 I do not recall having any issues with the pickup in MHK

I used MHK as an easier alternative to limbo, attempted more stringent testing has driven me quite, quite mad (as in 3hours of testing mad) as the BIDs in the XML aren't lining up as expected...I think NR is winning for most SC anims, and the furniture XML I downloaded for Homemaker is incomplete. What I can say without doubt is the control issues aren't related to ghost mode, neither tab nor left click. Vans tend to put the camera inside and in at least one case allowed a narrow exit window for the cam, placed and spawned pickups seem to work better than the one in the pit.

 

So, on to lighter topics, have some further thoughts/open discussion topics

1: Bimbo face piercings...when I think facial piercings I don't think "Bimbo", I think "Punk/Goth", is it just me? Did I miss when this became a trend?

2: Probably just me, but Makeup and Hair Style could use a more descriptive flavour text alongside the names...not entirely sure how to apply "Intense" makeup and "Bimbo" hairstyles.

3: I've been playing waaaay too much MTG, during the last 3 hours of testing I started with the prostitution mode and "wait a few hours before tapping them again" made me laugh far more than it should have 🤦‍♂️

 

[MSM_Alice]

20 minutes ago, JemappelleRedacted said:

  

Speed seems fine to me, and moving Cogsworth from dialogue to key activation is an elegant solution.

Ran a few tests to a; try get OrbitCam out of the truck then swap back and hope it'd stay outside and b; if the Tab error can be directly attributed to OC. OrbitCam set to off in MCM, toggling from FreeCam to OC locks you to the OC initial position, adjustment keys don't function and toggling back doesn't switch to FC but can allow QoH to speak and do

 

Hmm indeed

I should limit all cam-related MSMA hotkeys to only work if  the MSMA managed camera mode is on, and not otherwise.
If MSMA managed camera mode is off it is assumed camera should be unmanaged /left on defaults, and no keys should actually do anything.
The fact that some keys do stuff is a development slip-up.

In fact there is also an inconsistent naming aspect. 
I could call the new camera system MSMA Camera, instead of Orbit Camera,  as an orbiting camera mode will be part of it, but not all of it. 

Once it is toggled on, the MSMA Camera can function in

- orbit mode (camera is affected by collision, but subtitles and dialogues re visible and selectable, and adjustments to movement from keys is done in "steps") 
- free fly mode, (camera is not affected by collision, and motion is classic Fly Cam motion, but subtitles and dialogues re not visible nor selectable) 
or a dynamic mix / back and forth between the two, based on key presses and dynamic conditions.

This way there are no interferences with the people who want to have this system off and if set to off it should not affect anything about how the camera was before. 


Will try and figure out what happens with the TAB. I hope it does not turn out to be a mandatory limitation.

[MSM_Alice]

Additionally there are three other aspects that someone on the Discord brought to my attention

 

1.the extreme/shocking  aspects of the mod at higher bimbo levels, made all but mandatory by the cravings. 
 I had become too entrenched in the technical implementation side of things, and lost track of eventually dialing down, and fencing off grouping that extreme stuff on higher level bimbo. The mod itself is supposed to have a large perimeter of things it can handle procedurally, but not all of it is stuff that I would be comfortable making mandatory for a player in  the story itself,  (only some of it and only in except in particular optional scenarios). 
Definitely not all of it should be readily available at the start as it is now. 
Right now because I am testing things, there are few limits put in, and some extreme stuff is perhaps too normalized and too quickly becomes part of the day to day at the start.
So I need to work on that progression.  
But regarding  "the cravings at high bimbo levels are  not everyone's cup of tea, can they be configurable?" them being problematic is kinda the point.
While I do agree they are shocking, becoming max level bimbo should not be a goal in itself, there should be things that at least give one pause for thought if that is right or not. 

2. Some people prefer no audio to robotic audio. So I should probably have fuz packs with audio, and fuz packs that are text only and silent files. At least until I have time to manually fine tune each line so it sound plausible, and not mass-generate.
Or just find ways to mass-generate better. 

 

3. A consistency and spelling and grammar pass on all text messages and dialogue lines. (which It is a must do before the 1.0 release anyway, but maybe I need to do an interim pass to weed out  all that that has piled up in the meantime)