MSMA: SexFight (like "Succubus Drain") and Bimbofication

[dav42]

2 minutes ago, MSM_Alice said:

You might not have had any active unfulfilled cravings yet.
Do you have any?
They no longer start based on level alone.

 

OK, I think it triggers on sex attributes arousal?  I got "You are desperate for sex" and chatted with Marina and the dialogue came up.

[Slip0213]

I experienced a strange occurrence with my bimbo progression.  I looked and it was at 95% to level one.  It said that the stat was decreasing.  I looked again a bit later - 97% decreasing, looked again shortly after that, 98% decreasing.  Then I lost a fight and a robot took its liberties.  I looked at my bimbo progression, it was at 82% and sitting still with the line saying my stat targets don't make me a bimbo yet.  

 

I don't recall the last time I looked before I saw 95%.  This is the first time I saw an oddity like this and thought I should mention it.

[dav42]

Something keeps re-equipping KFT device "Leather-Belt".  Any ideas what could be doing that?  Assuming it's some glitch with KFT.

[MSM_Alice]

7 hours ago, dav42 said:

Something keeps re-equipping KFT device "Leather-Belt".  Any ideas what could be doing that?  Assuming it's some glitch with KFT.

As far as I know MSMA is not doing anything specific with that device, and is not a Marina piercing item that would be on any MSMA monitor or re-quip list. 
It likely comes from another mod., (and it might be an item that Marina cannot un-equip from you).

Edited September 21, 2025 by MSM_Alice

[MSM_Alice]

14 hours ago, dav42 said:

 

OK, I think it triggers on sex attributes arousal?  I got "You are desperate for sex" and chatted with Marina and the dialogue came up.

No, cravings are not directly caused by arousal, but to the craving activation conditions being met. 
Arousal can indirectly push you into other things that do activate the cravings, but it not considered a Marina craving itself.

[MSM_Alice]

12 hours ago, Slip0213 said:

I experienced a strange occurrence with my bimbo progression.  I looked and it was at 95% to level one.  It said that the stat was decreasing.  I looked again a bit later - 97% decreasing, looked again shortly after that, 98% decreasing.  Then I lost a fight and a robot took its liberties.  I looked at my bimbo progression, it was at 82% and sitting still with the line saying my stat targets don't make me a bimbo yet.  

 

I don't recall the last time I looked before I saw 95%.  This is the first time I saw an oddity like this and thought I should mention it.

Hmmm..
It might be that the "precise reporting mode" has some quirks around the level up moment.

It is a debug mode,  I 'm not using it that often so it may have fallen into disrepair.
The normal one should be the "loose/mysterious" reporting mode, the default. 

 

The is decreasing or is increasing is computed based on comparison with values from the previous update "Tick" which tick for the purpose of bimbo evolution is about 27 seconds).
If your CVT stats evolution on each tick looks like 

 

• small decrease,
• small decrease,
• small decrease, 
• big increase ( larger than the last 3 decreases combined), 
• small decrease,
• small decrease,
• small decrease,
• small decrease, 
• big increase  ( larger than the last 4 decreases combined), 
• small decrease, 

 

Then you will indeed overall have an increase in the score over longer periods of time, even though at times when you check it,  if not checking in the specific tick where the big boost happened, it might say "Decreasing".

So it might all be legit/correct.
 

 

In your encounter with the robot did you do particularly well at sex-fighting (100% challenges answered, robot paralized) ?
That might actually lower some of you bimbo scores.

Can you share more about 
Which stat specifically was decreasing ?
What does the normal "Show core stats" say at each of these stages ?
What were any of your individual stats doing at the time?

 

Edited September 21, 2025 by MSM_Alice

[JemappelleRedacted]

 

On 9/20/2025 at 2:01 PM, Mimirue17 said:

allow you to spawn Super Mutants

Only 1 permanent and the short term ones are basically 1 anim so I ended up keeping the ol' tcai, tdetect, tai, and placeatme. Thanks though, it was so close to being what I needed!

 

On 9/20/2025 at 1:15 PM, MSM_Alice said:

So you mean dynamically changing the Violate PTSD option

I can't remember if it also reduces/removes the trauma penalty, but it really feels like it should for Perversion 3, and soften it for Perversion 1 and 2. Maybe disable SexFight killing as well, as the proto-QOH thought states, why kill them when you can come back again later?

 

On 9/20/2025 at 4:58 AM, MSM_Alice said:

Is that okay or .. not really

It'd be a lot less error prone, so I'd say it's a worthwhile sacrifice. During my testing I occasionally had the PC called the QOH and the QOH use the PC's name. Briefly, with no reliable trigger, but still possible.

 

Speaking of testing, it's not as extensive as I wanted, but here's what I found.

 

Inherently Problematic Animations: those that cannot avoid collision issues.

Feral Nuka machine, Feral Trashcan, Feral News stand, SC-FM-Crane (yeah, I didn't know it existed either!) SM Patio Table, SM Traffic Light, SM Van, SCFM Jail Door,
RZFM/FF doggyTrashcan tender, Atomic Lust Cryopod (open or closed),

 

Sub-optimal Animations: limited camera movement arcs, depending on the exact prop used.

SCFM Shackles, SCFMM Shackles, TD Walllock (placement hypothetically allows these to work fine, but innately they get stuck in the wall), Pillory (not Hydro, the workshop one. Open is fine, closed may not be.). 

SCFM Sportscar, SM Pickup (camera too far aft of the animation, close up difficult to obtain due to collision).

Atomic Lust Bunk Bed FM, SC 3p Bunkbed, SC-5p Blowbang, SC8p (some angles occluded, but actors still visible. Bunk Bed Upper worse than lower)

SCFM Lockers (incomplete collision, depends on model. Single mostly works, one specific triple-locker worked to an extent, most 2 and 3 blocks classed as Inherently Problematic.

SCFM Sedan Prewar Back and front seat (this one was interesting, significant elements of the car had no collision but some parts did)

 

And, finally, the Weird One: SCFM Postwar Sedan (specifically 194635) had no obvious collision whatsoever...which just raises further questions with alternate FID's for the other props and ended the experiment lol.

 

 

No control issues, no sign of Viewbot, QoH was invisible. Hopefully this info proves useful (somehow, to someone).

 

 

 

Edited September 21, 2025 by JemappelleRedacted

[JemappelleRedacted]

So, after driving myself not a little insane, I realised fVertibirdAutoVanityZoom was about the distance Viewbot cam sat at, so after a bit of googling....I present a workaround!

 

Sourced from a Radstag riding mod, whack this in your config

 

[camera]
fVertibirdAutoVanityZoom=60.0000
fVertibirdVanityModeMaxDist=2000.0000
fVertibirdVanityModeMinDist=60.0000

 

Viewbot starts at 60, hold down the third person toggle and drag mouse down to zoom out, up to zoom back in.

 

Fingers crossed it remains stable, but this looks like it just might work 😱

[MSM_Alice]

2 hours ago, JemappelleRedacted said:

 

Only 1 permanent and the short term ones are basically 1 anim so I ended up keeping the ol' tcai, tdetect, tai, and placeatme. Thanks though, it was so close to being what I needed!

 

I can't remember if it also reduces/removes the trauma penalty, but it really feels like it should for Perversion 3, and soften it for Perversion 1 and 2. Maybe disable SexFight killing as well, as the proto-QOH thought states, why kill them when you can come back again later?

 

It'd be a lot less error prone, so I'd say it's a worthwhile sacrifice. During my testing I occasionally had the PC called the QOH and the QOH use the PC's name. Briefly, with no reliable trigger, but still possible.

 

Speaking of testing, it's not as extensive as I wanted, but here's what I found.

 

Inherently Problematic Animations: those that cannot avoid collision issues.

Feral Nuka machine, Feral Trashcan, Feral News stand, SC-FM-Crane (yeah, I didn't know it existed either!) SM Patio Table, SM Traffic Light, SM Van, SCFM Jail Door,
RZFM/FF doggyTrashcan tender, Atomic Lust Cryopod (open or closed),

 

Sub-optimal Animations: limited camera movement arcs, depending on the exact prop used.

SCFM Shackles, SCFMM Shackles, TD Walllock (placement hypothetically allows these to work fine, but innately they get stuck in the wall), Pillory (not Hydro, the workshop one. Open is fine, closed may not be.). 

SCFM Sportscar, SM Pickup (camera too far aft of the animation, close up difficult to obtain due to collision).

Atomic Lust Bunk Bed FM, SC 3p Bunkbed, SC-5p Blowbang, SC8p (some angles occluded, but actors still visible. Bunk Bed Upper worse than lower)

SCFM Lockers (incomplete collision, depends on model. Single mostly works, one specific triple-locker worked to an extent, most 2 and 3 blocks classed as Inherently Problematic.

SCFM Sedan Prewar Back and front seat (this one was interesting, significant elements of the car had no collision but some parts did)

 

And, finally, the Weird One: SCFM Postwar Sedan (specifically 194635) had no obvious collision whatsoever...which just raises further questions with alternate FID's for the other props and ended the experiment lol.

 

 

No control issues, no sign of Viewbot, QoH was invisible. Hopefully this info proves useful (somehow, to someone).

 

 

 

For the problematic ones, did switching to the  alt movement camera provide  some use, or not really ?

Edited September 21, 2025 by MSM_Alice

[MSM_Alice]

33 minutes ago, JemappelleRedacted said:

So, after driving myself not a little insane, I realised fVertibirdAutoVanityZoom was about the distance Viewbot cam sat at, so after a bit of googling....I present a workaround!

 

Sourced from a Radstag riding mod, whack this in your config

 

[camera]
fVertibirdAutoVanityZoom=60.0000
fVertibirdVanityModeMaxDist=2000.0000
fVertibirdVanityModeMinDist=60.0000

 

Viewbot starts at 60, hold down the third person toggle and drag mouse down to zoom out, up to zoom back in.

 

Fingers crossed it remains stable, but this looks like it just might work 😱

Hmmm... A fantastic find. Thank you!
I had no idea where those settings were (the ones used in the bot 3rdperson cam) and how were they called.

I just knew they weren't the normal player 3rd person cam ones.

So they are the vertibird ones.

now that I know that, I could even do automatic switch to these values when the eyebot-mode is engaged, and switch back from these values to the Fallout4 defaults so no addition to the .ini needs to be done. 

Edited September 21, 2025 by MSM_Alice

[JemappelleRedacted]

3 hours ago, MSM_Alice said:

For the problematic ones, did switching to the  alt movement camera provide  some use, or not really ?

Viewbot at range 975 (as I said, more than 3 vans long) was functionally useless, caught on almost everything . Viewbot at range 60 is ~30% more awkward than orbit cam, but I'm going to see if I can get away with 10-30 which is functionally first person so should be almost as good as freecam (and still getting shit talked by QoH 🥳)

 

EDIT

Dropped it to 4 with no apparent issues, still catches on bumps but can provide xray vision with careful positioning  😎

Edited September 21, 2025 by JemappelleRedacted

[dav42]

9 hours ago, MSM_Alice said:

As far as I know MSMA is not doing anything specific with that device, and is not a Marina piercing item that would be on any MSMA monitor or re-quip list. 
It likely comes from another mod., (and it might be an item that Marina cannot un-equip from you).

 

The only thing I can think of that would apply restraints is Violate, so perhaps it is related to how that mod is hooked?  KZEB_API definitely seems to have tracking mechanism, similar reported issues for KFT below, I'll have to pay more attention the next time this triggers and how I was unequipping.  In terms of the core mods (KFT, DD, Violate, etc) I have used them without any real issue, but I know all of this stuff can get into weird scenarios and different levels of brokeness for events that are just not handled.  It happened twice for me with this loadout, and both times I just went to an earlier save game.  I tried to unequip via KFT debug, armor bench unlocker, console, etc, all of them had the device return maybe 20 or 30 seconds later.

 

One other thing I noticed is with Wedge once your done with the Sanctuary quest, one of the scenes (threesome) gets stuck in a loop maybe 3 times where at the end Wedge just approaches and says Hello and starts the whole thing over again.  I don't know if this is because he is dissatisifed, but there doesn't seem to be any feedback on that front why we are looping the scene.  Eventually it breaks out.

 

https://www.loverslab.com/topic/228476-kft-kziitd-fetish-toolset/page/22/#findComment-4390120

 

[Bimbolover9454]

OK, So i get the conversation where I am given the dildos, but nothing is added to my inventory. I have the bad dragon mod downloaded and I am able to place them in my workshop. Am I missing something else? Also, I'm not seeing the link on the main page for the music. Any help is much appreciated

[dav42]

22 minutes ago, Rocketman5461138 said:

OK, So i get the conversation where I am given the dildos, but nothing is added to my inventory. I have the bad dragon mod downloaded and I am able to place them in my workshop. Am I missing something else? Also, I'm not seeing the link on the main page for the music. Any help is much appreciated

 

You have to configure the hot keys in MCM, one of the menus has the dildo's.  It's activated through the hotkey menus.

[MSM_Alice]

2 hours ago, Rocketman5461138 said:

OK, So i get the conversation where I am given the dildos, but nothing is added to my inventory. I have the bad dragon mod downloaded and I am able to place them in my workshop. Am I missing something else? Also, I'm not seeing the link on the main page for the music. Any help is much appreciated

Music: 

[MSM_Alice]

4 hours ago, dav42 said:

 

The only thing I can think of that would apply restraints is Violate, so perhaps it is related to how that mod is hooked?  KZEB_API definitely seems to have tracking mechanism, similar reported issues for KFT below, I'll have to pay more attention the next time this triggers and how I was unequipping.  In terms of the core mods (KFT, DD, Violate, etc) I have used them without any real issue, but I know all of this stuff can get into weird scenarios and different levels of brokeness for events that are just not handled.  It happened twice for me with this loadout, and both times I just went to an earlier save game.  I tried to unequip via KFT debug, armor bench unlocker, console, etc, all of them had the device return maybe 20 or 30 seconds later.

 

One other thing I noticed is with Wedge once your done with the Sanctuary quest, one of the scenes (threesome) gets stuck in a loop maybe 3 times where at the end Wedge just approaches and says Hello and starts the whole thing over again.  I don't know if this is because he is dissatisifed, but there doesn't seem to be any feedback on that front why we are looping the scene.  Eventually it breaks out.

 

https://www.loverslab.com/topic/228476-kft-kziitd-fetish-toolset/page/22/#findComment-4390120

 

That thing with wedge restarting it was present in on older versions of the mod, but should be a thing of the past on more recent versions. 
Maybe a new game on the latest version is best to weed out these issues, and not an ugrade.

 

Was that on new game on the latest version?
If so I need to test it myself and get it to repro.

Edited September 21, 2025 by MSM_Alice

[MSM_Alice]

A new test version (for now, largely untested so not on the main page yet) 

Changes: 

• Fixed two craving class activations  that were keyed on the wrong key. 
  • - Provided orgasms  craving was erroneously keyed  on the received orgasms threshold 
  • - Body count craving was erroneously keyed  on the received orgasms threshold 
• Gave up on forcing the name change for the Queen Of Hearts inner voice, because it would inadvertently change any temporary Player names that some other mods were using, forcing a revert to the original Player name.  The Queen of Hearts inner voice subtitles, when she delivers her banter, now use the  current Player name, but has a [Q] tag at the start.   (This affects only the ad-hoc banter, as aside from that, in the normal dialogue scenes,  there we can have the two different names risk free, as those are set up with two actual different actors, unlike the ad-hoc banter where the player entity delivers both sides of the dialogue)
• Improved   " Movable Camera"  sub mode from orbit mode to be a lot closer to the action  (Than you @JemappelleRedacted ) looks and feels better now.
• Most cravings starting are now announced by QOH (new voice lines) 
• Some craving upgrades are also announced by QoH. (new voice lines)
• Status of some enemies being above SexFight Skill or not,  is also announced by QoH. (new voice lines)

 

 

Edit: might want to skip this one and use 7851 below.

 

Edited February 19 by MSM_Alice

[MSM_Alice]

Two more fixes: 

- > The fist talk with QOH- put some extra guards against her accidentally being visible. 
-> Corrected the first  Super mutant sex to not always be seen ats " the very first one", and to correctly move past the one-time line that should only be played the first time. 
 

 

Edited February 19 by MSM_Alice

[dav42]

1 hour ago, MSM_Alice said:

Was that on new game on the latest version?
If so I need to test it myself and get it to repro.

 

It was on a "new" game, for a "new" game I use a vanilla save game just before the vault exit as a base (it basically just has a few foundation mods + BT3/FG) and then use the vault exit to customize the character.

[MSM_Alice]

3 hours ago, dav42 said:

 

It was on a "new" game, for a "new" game I use a vanilla save game just before the vault exit as a base (it basically just has a few foundation mods + BT3/FG) and then use the vault exit to customize the character.

Tested on  a new game, on pre-NG,  played all the way to that. 
Tried both a successful end, and a unsuccessful end, and could not trigger the described behavior.

Will have to hunt for that more but no repro yet. 

Edited September 21, 2025 by MSM_Alice

[MSM_Alice]

0.7852 on the main page now.

 

The new vertibird zoom value adjuster on the eyebot ended up not working, or at least not working consistently.

Will have to dig more there too.

Edited September 21, 2025 by MSM_Alice

[JemappelleRedacted]

11 minutes ago, MSM_Alice said:

0.7852 on the main page now.

 

The new vertibird zoom value adjuster on the eyebot ended up not working, or at least not working consistently.

Will have to dig more there too.

Is that in 7852, or has it been removed? Might conflict with my ini edit.

Don't think we need max zoom redefined for Viewbot purposes, but one thing that did get mentioned was fVertibirdAutoVanityZoom and fVertibirdVanityModeMinDist needed to be the same to enable zoom adjustment. 

[MSM_Alice]

4 hours ago, JemappelleRedacted said:

Is that in 7852, or has it been removed? Might conflict with my ini edit.

Don't think we need max zoom redefined for Viewbot purposes, but one thing that did get mentioned was fVertibirdAutoVanityZoom and fVertibirdVanityModeMinDist needed to be the same to enable zoom adjustment. 

It is still in there just that sometimes it starts just as far as it did before, in spite of the change,  and I have no idea why, so I don't mention it in the changelog yet. 

But not only it is in, that min zoom value even has an entry in the QoH MCM  page to be more easily adjusted. 
I have to investigate that deeper to see where the inconsistency comes from. 

That and the occasional interruptions of the dialogue line delivery. 

Edited September 22, 2025 by MSM_Alice

[MSM_Alice]

5 hours ago, JemappelleRedacted said:

Is that in 7852, or has it been removed? Might conflict with my ini edit.

Don't think we need max zoom redefined for Viewbot purposes, but one thing that did get mentioned was fVertibirdAutoVanityZoom and fVertibirdVanityModeMinDist needed to be the same to enable zoom adjustment. 

It is quite frustrating because when it works, It works REALLY well, almost the same as a free cam for left right, back and forth  (with the only notable difference is that I  need to press keys to change the elevation) ... so the fact that it works this well when it does work, makes it even more annoying when it does not
But with a bit more time (which unfortunately I have very little of for hobby-modding these weeks) I'm fairly sure I will figure out the pattern eventually.

Same with the topic lines interruptions, might just have to accept that my "elegant" low-cost solution of having the player entity itself do the delivery, is not working seamlessly, so I might as well carry and spawn some invisible "speaker" alt-entities with me rather then try to make the player be the speaker. 
I suspect the sounds played by some AAF animations use some overlapping subsystem with the " Say" command so as they play on the player,( legitimately  because the player is in the AAF animation),  whatever Queen of Hearts line that was being delivered by the player entity at that point with "say"  is unceremoniously cut short. Not an always occurrence,  it often works okay, but the interruptions occur often enough for the experience to not ever feel "polished" enough.

Edited September 22, 2025 by MSM_Alice

[JemappelleRedacted]

7 hours ago, MSM_Alice said:

makes it even more annoying when it does not

Potentially daft question, but you did try holding the third person toggle and moving the cursor up the screen, right? Trying to "look up" like that zooms in when it starts out all the way...then again, if you're doing it on the fly anyway, why not set max zoom to be 1-2 points higher than minimum so even if it does start out and the zoom sticks (happened to me once in testing after I deleted my edits and just used MSMA) it'll still be up close and personal (and only marginally different anyway).

I'll try the below in the morning as an ini edit, see if it breaks anything on my setup

VertibirdAutoVanityZoom=2
fVertibirdVanityModeMaxDist=4
fVertibirdVanityModeMinDist=2

 

Sadly, I can't help with the QoH interrupt, though I did notice them during my customary water treatment plant test 😜 The voice is coming along nicely too, working up to sultry although still a bit formal in her wording.