MSMA: SexFight (like "Succubus Drain") and Bimbofication

[Mimirue17]

Also tested on new game and had no issues with any weird effects of orbit camera.   Have to play around with the settings for it to get a good experience with it but looks like a stable way to get the dialogue and subtitles in which I like - its adds a true feeling that your being watched (and encouraged to be naughty).   I am assuming its gets even spicier as you get even more naughty and your bimbo levels start going up.   Are there going to be lines for when you just want to have sex (no violate - scene started with home key or prostitution for happiness vs money) with strangers and you instigate the scene?   Sure the QoH would love to see that and comment on it!

[MSM_Alice]

53 minutes ago, Mimirue17 said:

Also tested on new game and had no issues with any weird effects of orbit camera.   Have to play around with the settings for it to get a good experience with it but looks like a stable way to get the dialogue and subtitles in which I like - its adds a true feeling that your being watched (and encouraged to be naughty).   I am assuming its gets even spicier as you get even more naughty and your bimbo levels start going up.   Are there going to be lines for when you just want to have sex (no violate - scene started with home key or prostitution for happiness vs money) with strangers and you instigate the scene?   Sure the QoH would love to see that and comment on it!

Yes. there should be consensual and non consensual versions of the lines for most events/set-ups. 
And in non-con, the mind break status vs non-mind break, should be noted. 

But maybe because the con/noncon detection is currently done based on animation tags, that's not quite consistent, I should apply some overrides for that tag-based determination, for instance if it is Charm or a Prostitution scene, or a Wedge scene, that should be considered consensual scene no matter the animation tags. 
If it is started by Violate on the other hand, that should be non-con no matter the animation tags. 

And in some cases , special conditions,  the decision is made by the player. for instance at Piete's betrayal there are three possible  dialogue lines that the player can pick at the start.
Two of them means what Piete does is non con, but one line of the three one line means that the Player consents to being part of that.

What I am saying is that the QOH lines should probably reflect the nature of the scene.


Edit: 
Which settings did you feel you had to change from what are the current defaults ?

Edited September 18, 2025 by MSM_Alice

[Mimirue17]

hmm, I think the default orbit distance allowed it only 3 or 4 steps in any direction.   I have not really played with adjusting that at all, simply used the default.   Tonight after work I will mess around with different amounts and see if it can get closer to the fly cam true 360 approach to scenes.   It is really hard to get good angles on scenes that include many actors - 3 or more for example its sometimes hard to see if an actor is below another as is the case in some gangbangs.  You can still hear the challenge calls so it doesn't effect the outcome just does not seems as good as what was the default fly came experience.   The QoH involvement is well worth playing around with it to get comfortable with it, so I am not saying I prefer flycam, I just need to get the orbit cam to feel right for me as this girl (at least this playthrough) is a willing bimbo who is open to experimenting with anything with a cock.   Kind of black widow style though (might have a screw loose, or two) fuck me hard and everyway possible - then cease to exist kind of vibes.   She got really pissed and blew a gasket after listening to that Hi Honey tape....all men are in a different category of monster now I fear.....

[dav42]

3 hours ago, MSM_Alice said:

Well, those 50-60 lines that I  have in now for QoH would need to become at least ~500 to have enough variations.

 

Hmm, maybe there is something broken with my game or I am not hitting the variety to trigger it, I seem to get the same few lines from the implant.  I did shag some raiders, some fine dirt bags in Diamond City via Sexual Harassment, and super mutants (she loves to talk about "I can't believe your ...something something... super mutant").

 

 

 

[MSM_Alice]

29 minutes ago, dav42 said:

 

Hmm, maybe there is something broken with my game or I am not hitting the variety to trigger it, I seem to get the same few lines from the implant.  I did shag some raiders, some fine dirt bags in Diamond City via Sexual Harassment, and super mutants (she loves to talk about "I can't believe your ...something something... super mutant").

 

 

 

 

Nothing broken that that 50 is not a lot because there are many cases to cover. 

For instance just one event: 

Oral sex, player orgasm,  has 6 QoH lines just to cover that, (and no variations yet  - just one event)  

Because ideally the line is different if 

•  Sex was consensual or not ( so we have 2 lines) 
  • If non con: There's the question if the player is Mind broken or not.  (+ 1 additional line)

That's 3 lines total already.
Now consider rude tone, and normal tone, for each, so x2 for each of the three you get 6 lines: 

 

 

Then imagine you want to have at least three different versions for each,  and one version that you play the first time this happens, then never again. So again x4

6x4 =24 lines

And I'm no even doing doubles yet for QoH addressing the player with "you" at first, and with "we" later on, as if I did that that would have meant x2 again 
24x2=48, lines and that's to cover just ONE event:  Player orgasm in oral only scenes.

 

So, 50 is really not a lot  At 500 there's going to be some variation.
Probably a good line count for procedural sex dirty talk is more akin to 1000 lines.

Edited September 18, 2025 by MSM_Alice

[dav42]

1 hour ago, MSM_Alice said:

Then imagine you want to have at least three different versions for each,  and one version that you play the first time this happens, then never again. So again x4

6x4 =24 lines

And I'm no even doing doubles yet for QoH addressing the player with "you" at first, and with "we" later on, as if I did that that would have meant x2 again 
24x2=48, lines and that's to cover just ONE event:  Player orgasm in oral only scenes.

 

Ahh, OK.  Didn't realize the comments were getting that granular and conditioned based player & scene attributes.  It makes sense now.

 

As a side note, it was mentioned by someone else before, but it seems on the first use of services the hologram doesn't show anything.  I typically start from a vault exit save from a fairly vanilla loadout, not sure if that has anything to do with it but usually I have to exit the service view (i.e. piercings/tattos/whatever), and I have been saving the game and reloading, and then the hologram works fine.  It's not a big deal, but thought maybe if you were looking for more information that this would help.

[MSM_Alice]

4 hours ago, dav42 said:

 

Ahh, OK.  Didn't realize the comments were getting that granular and conditioned based player & scene attributes.  It makes sense now.

 

As a side note, it was mentioned by someone else before, but it seems on the first use of services the hologram doesn't show anything.  I typically start from a vault exit save from a fairly vanilla loadout, not sure if that has anything to do with it but usually I have to exit the service view (i.e. piercings/tattos/whatever), and I have been saving the game and reloading, and then the hologram works fine.  It's not a big deal, but thought maybe if you were looking for more information that this would help.

I think that should only happen if you get from the game start /mod activation to there in one swoop without saving/loading once. 
If you save and load once before reaching Marina does it still happen?

Edited September 19, 2025 by MSM_Alice

[JemappelleRedacted]

On 9/18/2025 at 3:16 AM, MSM_Alice said:

Please if you have time let me know your thoughts.

Mixed bag so far, the pickup is much more viable (in fact MC is worse than OC this time), the traffic light and patio table SM anims still stick, and it seems MC drops to -1 height and gets stuck in the ground. 😑 QoH was a visible character for the initial conversation, and apparently you can hack "view".

 

Also found it overrides Custom Cam when it exits, managed to get a hotkey up to reset the profile and as an experiment hit it in MC mode...yeah, not doing that again lol. Then again, tab hasn't failed yet so huge win there! 🎉

 

Trying to wrap my head around this to see if we're missing a trick... so, the initial camera location is set by the animation, and when the transition phase ends you spawn an invisible eyebot at this location whilst the actors in the scene are teleported to a specific point in relation to the camera location (this is where the problem starts, as certain animations define this initial teleport inside a prop).

 

In Orbit Cam, the eyebot is locked in place, but you swap to a third person view and displace the point of view by a set x/y/z value per keypress up to set maximum, but rotation is based around this invisible bot.

In Movable Cam, this eyebot teleports to the floor and moves by a set x/y value (but not z) per keypress, again in third person you rotate around the bot which is now a fixed distance in front of the camera but doesn't rotate, so x/y is not locked to the camera view but the bot's "front", clips through x/y obstructions, but is no longer considered a "Player Cam" so uses a fixed zoom. When toggled off, the bot returns to the initial camera location. 

 

This sound about right?

[MSM_Alice]

38 minutes ago, JemappelleRedacted said:

Mixed bag so far, the pickup is much more viable (in fact MC is worse than OC this time), the traffic light and patio table SM anims still stick, and it seems MC drops to -1 height and gets stuck in the ground. 😑 QoH was a visible character for the initial conversation, and apparently you can hack "view".

 

Also found it overrides Custom Cam when it exits, managed to get a hotkey up to reset the profile and as an experiment hit it in MC mode...yeah, not doing that again lol. Then again, tab hasn't failed yet so huge win there! 🎉

 

Trying to wrap my head around this to see if we're missing a trick... so, the initial camera location is set by the animation, and when the transition phase ends you spawn an invisible eyebot at this location whilst the actors in the scene are teleported to a specific point in relation to the camera location (this is where the problem starts, as certain animations define this initial teleport inside a prop).

 

In Orbit Cam, the eyebot is locked in place, but you swap to a third person view and displace the point of view by a set x/y/z value per keypress up to set maximum, but rotation is based around this invisible bot.

In Movable Cam, this eyebot teleports to the floor and moves by a set x/y value (but not z) per keypress, again in third person you rotate around the bot which is now a fixed distance in front of the camera but doesn't rotate, so x/y is not locked to the camera view but the bot's "front", clips through x/y obstructions, but is no longer considered a "Player Cam" so uses a fixed zoom. When toggled off, the bot returns to the initial camera location. 

 

This sound about right?

Almost nothing about that sounds right :D. 

I think you are experiencing that that " on the ground" mode  because you might have been in first person mode, and I stopped forcing the toggle to third person cam  to happen  when trying to figure out the tab/mouse  bugs, and forgot to reactivate it after. 
So that means you go in first person mode with the invisible bot, instead of third person, when you take over its controls, which is something that is not quite supposed to happen. 

 

The Qoh being visible on first convo sound like a side effect of updating a test version with another test version.
If started from the start, QOH it should not be visible, unless there's a sneaky mod in your loadout making nearby actors and forcing them visible by setting their alpha to a non 0 value. 

I will have to see what's happening on custom cam, inially i was asking custom cam mod to ( if installed) re-aplly its settings on exit but was causing a crash and I removed that automation. 

Probably I'll just expose the " return to " parameters in the MSMA mcm, so people can chose what 3rd person state they return to.
And you can set them to be identical your Custom camera set values.

Edited September 19, 2025 by MSM_Alice

[JemappelleRedacted]

1 hour ago, MSM_Alice said:

might have been in first person mode

Nope, happens in both first and third, furniture or not. Potentially related to TAI or TCAI, using Mutants to test the van? Seems to at the moment work first time, then toggling back to OC drops Viewbot to ground level directly below the camera origin, toggling back causes the break. Also, although invisible, Viewbot isn't despawning in the timeframe of the current tests and is VATS targetable.

 

Which does support elements of my understanding of the camera at least 🤷‍♂️

 

1 hour ago, MSM_Alice said:

updating a test version with another test version

Nope and qualified nope, fresh game, 30min script cook, quit then loaded before speaking to Misty. First time she's been visible too.

 

1 hour ago, MSM_Alice said:

Probably I'll just expose the " return to " parameters

Hotkey works perfectly fine, really. Not WAI, but not serious either.

[MSM_Alice]

2 hours ago, JemappelleRedacted said:

Nope, happens in both first and third, furniture or not. Potentially related to TAI or TCAI, using Mutants to test the van? Seems to at the moment work first time, then toggling back to OC drops Viewbot to ground level directly below the camera origin, toggling back causes the break. Also, although invisible, Viewbot isn't despawning in the timeframe of the current tests and is VATS targetable.

 

Which does support elements of my understanding of the camera at least 🤷‍♂️

 

Nope and qualified nope, fresh game, 30min script cook, quit then loaded before speaking to Misty. First time she's been visible too.

 

Hotkey works perfectly fine, really. Not WAI, but not serious either.

Can you test this on a new game and tell me if you see QOH visible still and if Move cam is better?
And of course if the bugs on the controls didn't make a comeback?
 

Edit: Deleted , see new version  2 posts below.

 

Edited September 19, 2025 by MSM_Alice

[Mimirue17]

hmm I had none of those weird things on a new game, though I have not tried BL yet.   I will do more testing on 7845 and give a progress report after saving the loser crew in concord.    I am sure the Deathclaw will result in a BL trip so should be perfect.

[MSM_Alice]

0.7846 temp version had its share of quirks around not orbit Cam itself, but the move Cam within Orbit cam. 

The invisible Eyebot could be seen, shot and killed by bystanders.
Also the new configurable exit  3rd person camera parameters, the maximum zoom was not applied correctly.

0.7847 should solve all that
 

Further adjustments: 
Also lowered the default QoH line frequency (takes effect on a new game), to one third of what it was before, until I get more actual lines in the repetition could be annoying, and this should make it less so.

Also set frenzy by default off on a new game, only paralysis and death are by default on, Frenzy is an acquired taste and needs to be toggled on manually. 

MSMA_v0_7847.zip

Edited September 19, 2025 by MSM_Alice

[JemappelleRedacted]

5 hours ago, MSM_Alice said:

Can you test this on a new game and tell me if you see QOH visible still and if Move cam is better?
And of course if the bugs on the controls didn't make a comeback?

 

Controls were happy, QoH was invisible and controls locked properly, limited testing had Viewbot...better I guess? Insofar as xyz adjustment goes it didn't drop underground and get stuck, but the zoom was at least 50% further out, easily 3-4 van lengths. I don't think it had a hack prompt, did reset to ground level at camera locus on follow up anims but was still vats target.

 

5 hours ago, MSM_Alice said:

Edit: Deleted , see new version  2 posts below.

Well shit, please tell me I can just patch and go, I really don't to burn another hour letting the game set up another start 😭

 

EDIT

Also, if anyone knows an easy way to spawn multiple friendly mutants,, FEV hounds, dogs, etc, etc, please let me know, it'd streamline my testing process immensely! 

Edited September 19, 2025 by JemappelleRedacted

[MSM_Alice]

1 hour ago, JemappelleRedacted said:

Controls were happy, QoH was invisible and controls locked properly, limited testing had Viewbot...better I guess? Insofar as xyz adjustment goes it didn't drop underground and get stuck, but the zoom was at least 50% further out, easily 3-4 van lengths. I don't think it had a hack prompt, did reset to ground level at camera locus on follow up anims but was still vats target.

 

Well shit, please tell me I can just patch and go, I really don't to burn another hour letting the game set up another start 😭

 

EDIT

Also, if anyone knows an easy way to spawn multiple friendly mutants,, FEV hounds, dogs, etc, etc, please let me know, it'd streamline my testing process immensely! 

Patch and go should be good.

[MSM_Alice]

4 hours ago, JemappelleRedacted said:

 

Also, if anyone knows an easy way to spawn multiple friendly mutants,, FEV hounds, dogs, etc, etc, please let me know, it'd streamline my testing process immensely! 

I think the Milking Human Kindness mod with its Mommy-o Drug can make you temporarily neutral to supermutant settlements.

[MSM_Alice]

I've looked in a bit and there's no robust solution to the name reverting aspect, the thing that causes the Player name to revert to ts original name, picked at the start,  from a name that got cvhanged mid playthrough,   as that auto-happens  when removing an alias with a bespoke altered name that was  placed on the Player,  then removed from the Player. 

 

So I'm thinking .... what if I just don't do any of that to begin with?  What if MSMA leaves the player name untouched forever?

What's the general vibe around having QOH inner personality dialogues line use the player name unaltered in subtitles (instead of those lines appearing as "Queen Of Hearts"),  and just preface the Queen's lines with a [Q] tag in the text itself at the start,  (rather than display a whole separate name)?

So Instead of 

QueenOfHearts: Bla Bla line1
PlayerName: Retort
QueenOfHearts: Bla Bla line2

PlayerName: Retort2

 

 

should be
 

PlayerName: [Q]: Bla Bla line1

PlayerName: Retort

PlayerName: [Q]: Bla Bla line2

PlayerName: Retort2

 

Is that okay or .. not really ?

Edited September 19, 2025 by MSM_Alice

[Mimirue17]

35 minutes ago, MSM_Alice said:

I've looked in a bit and there's no robust solution to the name reverting aspect, the thing that causes the Player name to revert to ts original name, picked at the start,  from a name that got cvhanged mid playthrough,   as that auto-happens  when removing an alias with a bespoke altered name that was  placed on the Player,  then removed from the Player. 

 

So I'm thinking .... what if I just don't do any of that to begin with?  What if MSMA leaves the player name untouched forever?

What's the general vibe around having QOH inner personality dialogues line use the player name unaltered in subtitles (instead of those lines appearing as "Queen Of Hearts"),  and just preface the Queen's lines with a [Q] tag in the text itself at the start,  (rather than display a whole separate name)?

So Instead of 

QueenOfHearts: Bla Bla line1
PlayerName: Retort
QueenOfHearts: Bla Bla line2

PlayerName: Retort2

 

 

should be
 

PlayerName: [Q]: Bla Bla line1

PlayerName: Retort

PlayerName: [Q]: Bla Bla line2

PlayerName: Retort2

 

Is that okay or .. not really ?

I like the idea that the player once they decide what kind of bimbo they are will be asked in the story what should we call you.  The total sex craved bimbos might say bubbles or bubblegum, the defiant ones who are still level 1 might get angry and yell I am still Nora (or name chosen at start) or the ones like my current character who gets off on the hard-core sex and then the death of all men involved might say Black Widow.  Would be a cool part of the story to get the option/prompt for name change at the appropriate time.

[Mimirue17]

Those that have level 2 perversions might say my masters call me Muttie Whore or Raider Pet.  Total submissives are given a name by their masters.

Edited September 20, 2025 by Mimirue17

[Mimirue17]

Just a concept - take it for what you will.

 

If the player has level 2 perversions towards the current opponents in a sexfight - maybe turn off all consequences (this might depend on if they are currently mindbroken or not, or if they auto surrendered based on PTSD settings in violate - maybe even have MSMA raise that percentage chance on load as the implant wants you to have sex anyways, not fight) - and just leave the grace period to retreat - or hang around for another round or two depending on how depraved they are feeling.   The thinking here is that the player has been mentally conditioned that they want this - they do not want to fight this type of opponent they want them to have their way with them.

 

again - just a concept as I do not want to create more (and possibly difficult) work or headaches.

[MSM_Alice]

2 hours ago, Mimirue17 said:

Just a concept - take it for what you will.

 

If the player has level 2 perversions towards the current opponents in a sexfight - maybe turn off all consequences (this might depend on if they are currently mindbroken or not, or if they auto surrendered based on PTSD settings in violate - maybe even have MSMA raise that percentage chance on load as the implant wants you to have sex anyways, not fight) - and just leave the grace period to retreat - or hang around for another round or two depending on how depraved they are feeling.   The thinking here is that the player has been mentally conditioned that they want this - they do not want to fight this type of opponent they want them to have their way with them.

 

again - just a concept as I do not want to create more (and possibly difficult) work or headaches.

Makes sense why that would happen.
So you mean dynamically changing the Violate PTSD option value for willpower threshold under which auto surrender is possible, and for surrender chance  to a race the player has a SA Attributes level 2 and above perversion for? 

Or just in general... to offset how easy is now to keep that willpower high/above the threshold?

 

What I am thinking of is that instead of doing that, the QoH voice could occasionally plead with you to surrender instead. Each "plead" chips away more or less willpower.  This also makes a player understand what is happening and why the surrender eventually occurs.

 

 

What about the question, above,  would you find it too off-putting if the QOH lines in their subtitles were still appear as being said by what name the player happened to have at the time instead of switch each time "Queen Of Hearts"?  But just the text itself had a  [Q] at the start? 
The name would still be the player name for both the player lines, and the QoH lines. 
Would that bee too odd, or probably okay since the voice is coming from inside the player's mind anyway?

Edited September 20, 2025 by MSM_Alice

[Mimirue17]

22 minutes ago, MSM_Alice said:

Makes sense why that would happen.
So you mean dynamically changing the Violate PTSD option value for willpower threshold under which auto surrender is possible, and for surrender chance  to a race the player has a SA Attributes level 2 and above perversion for? 

Or just in general... to offset how easy is now to keep that willpower high/above the threshold?

 

What I am thinking off that instead of doing that, the QoH voice could occasionally plead with you to surrender instead. Each "plead" chips away more or less willpower.  This also makes a player understand what is happening and why the surrender eventually occurs.

 

 

What about the question, above,  would you find it too off-putting if the QOH lines in their subtitles were still appear as being said by what name the player happened to have at the time instead of switch each time "Queen Of Hearts"?  But just the text itself had a  [Q] at the start? 
The name would still be the player name for both the player lines, and the QoH lines. 
Would that bee too odd, or probably okay since the voice is coming from inside the player's mind anyway?

I like the idea of QoH to be involved with the total submission to the level 2 perversion - nudge at first (maybe 10-20 willpower) then more insistent (30-40) then scolding to someone who wont admit what they really want, need even (50-60) or a more gradual increase with QoH input along the way (this was a great idea you had btw - the voice in your head to help guide you to your destiny....hehe).   Once they do auto surrender, QoH will of course praise them for finally be true to themselves and encourage this kind of behavior and explain to them the implant can't hurt those that the player wants to violate them.

 

as far as the name goes - I think whatever allows them to call them the name they currently have - and hopefully the player at some point has the chance to reflect on who they are at that point - and accept they are no longer the person from the vault (the different types of bimbos you referenced before) or stand up for themselves (those that have maintained their grip on their cravings and are bimbo 0-2) and keep their current name.   The name change is really for those who want to get into their characters and change how they play over time so totally optional - but does add to the enjoyment of the experience.   It also has to fit into your story - so if its not really relavent then just discard the idea)

[Mimirue17]

15 hours ago, JemappelleRedacted said:

Controls were happy, QoH was invisible and controls locked properly, limited testing had Viewbot...better I guess? Insofar as xyz adjustment goes it didn't drop underground and get stuck, but the zoom was at least 50% further out, easily 3-4 van lengths. I don't think it had a hack prompt, did reset to ground level at camera locus on follow up anims but was still vats target.

 

Well shit, please tell me I can just patch and go, I really don't to burn another hour letting the game set up another start 😭

 

EDIT

Also, if anyone knows an easy way to spawn multiple friendly mutants,, FEV hounds, dogs, etc, etc, please let me know, it'd streamline my testing process immensely! 

https://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/13285 will allow you to spawn Super Mutants - and can be ally, companion or foe.   Just downloaded it to test - you can indeed spawn SM as ally - though they are not eligible for prostitution/charm .   I have not tried the others yet but there is a whole slew of npcs you can spawn.

[dav42]

I started a new game (well from a Vanilla save game just before vault exit) with 0.7847, and got to Bimbo 2 and Marina hasn't suggested Codsworth for cravings.  Is it specific cravings that should trigger the dialogue with Marina?

 

[MSM_Alice]

55 minutes ago, dav42 said:

I started a new game (well from a Vanilla save game just before vault exit) with 0.7847, and got to Bimbo 2 and Marina hasn't suggested Codsworth for cravings.  Is it specific cravings that should trigger the dialogue with Marina?

 

You might not have had any active unfulfilled cravings yet.
Do you have any?
They no longer start based on level alone.