Devious Devices - Captured Dreams Shop v4.15 - files removed

[valcon767]

3 hours ago, Veladarius said:

Regarding CD and v4 these are my plans:

 

There are only 2 things that are broken in v3 of CD when using v4 of DD from what I have seen and have had reported:

1 - armbinder and yoke removal. - I will add code to check the version of DD that is being used and if it detects v4 it will switch the keyword being used to detect, equip or remove them. This should allow for the straight jacket and other heavy Bondage devices to be detected and removed.

2 - CD's custom armbinder. There is no easy scripting way around this due to the complete change in scripts used for them. I will see about making a patch to change the armbinder to a v4 device that may be mergable, not entirely sure but the patch will at least give a working version of it.

 

The rest of the devices seem to work properly though they have ZAP keywords still (not that I see that big of an issue with them) and ZAP is still required for CD for furniture and idle animations anyway.

 

Hopefully this will resolve the fracturing of the DD user base and allow CD users to use whatever version of DD they want.

sorry for the wall of text following (but i had a few thoughts and ideas)

 

ok having read this post, i had an idea and went and did some digging (with TES5Edit) and looked at DDA, DDI, DDX version 4 stuff.

 

if i understand it correctly (i could be wrong here) the main problems occurring with V4 is item removal for the stuff with the new keyword for Heavy Bondage.

from what i saw while digging around, it seems like all the old keywords are still there, and certain items (all armbinder variants, all yoke variants, all wrist

shackle variants, and some of the new stuff like straightjackets and some of the stuff from Heretical Resources which are now part of DDX) have the new

keyword added in addition to the old keywords.

 

from what i understand placing devices (without changing the codewords) still works, it is just the removal that gets broken (i could be wrong here)

 

i am wondering if for general device removal:

would it work if you just added the new keyword (the heavy bondage one) to the person (or their script however it works) who removes armbinders now, 

would this solve that problem???  would probably need to add the straightjacket keyword also.

 

if so this would solve general device removal (without having to determine which version of DDI, DDX a person is using), without needing a lot of code/script

changes (i hope). and hopefully this would take care of #1 above. 

 

 

 

for #2 above CD's custom armbinder(s) and quests that involve armbinders:

 

i have an alternate suggestion (i freely admit i do not know how  much work this would take)

 

have you thought about switching what device is used for those quests/scenes??

 

if so i have a suggestion for a replacement item - Restrictive Gloves or Paw Bondage Mittens.

 

personally i would suggest the Restrictive Gloves (locked together).

 

the Restrictive Gloves do allow you to use items and wield weapons, but can be locked together (which stops the weapon usage at any rate)

and the Paw Bondage Mittens (under standard conditions) already stop weapon and magic usage and most item usage.

 

when looking at those (Restrictive Gloves, and Paw Bondage Mittens) in TES5Edit i found no versions of those having the new Heavy Bondage Keyword

(i could have missed something but i did try to look closely and didn't find any).

 

if this could in fact work (as a replacement for armbinders/yokes) when the Shop or a quest now uses an armbinder or yoke it might make it work

correctly without having to do a version check (and code or script changes on the fly).

 

 

 

this is just some thoughts (and ideas) to try to make it easier for people (you mainly) to be able to use the mod with whichever version of DDI, DDX they have

installed.

 

hopefully this information (and ideas) are helpful (at least somewhat).

 

[Veladarius]

15 minutes ago, valcon767 said:

sorry for the wall of text following (but i had a few thoughts and ideas)

 

ok having read this post, i had an idea and went and did some digging (with TES5Edit) and looked at DDA, DDI, DDX version 4 stuff.

 

if i understand it correctly (i could be wrong here) the main problems occurring with V4 is item removal for the stuff with the new keyword for Heavy Bondage.

from what i saw while digging around, it seems like all the old keywords are still there, and certain items (all armbinder variants, all yoke variants, all wrist

shackle variants, and some of the new stuff like straightjackets and some of the stuff from Heretical Resources which are now part of DDX) have the new

keyword added in addition to the old keywords.

 

from what i understand placing devices (without changing the codewords) still works, it is just the removal that gets broken (i could be wrong here)

 

i am wondering if for general device removal:

would it work if you just added the new keyword (the heavy bondage one) to the person (or their script however it works) who removes armbinders now, 

would this solve that problem???  would probably need to add the straightjacket keyword also.

 

if so this would solve general device removal (without having to determine which version of DDI, DDX a person is using), without needing a lot of code/script

changes (i hope). and hopefully this would take care of #1 above. 

Currently in v3 the Armbinder and Yoke have the Heavy Bondage keyword on them but it is not the Device Type keyword which DD uses when equipping and removing devices. Yes, I have seen items equipped using the wrong keyword but removal is a different matter. This is why:

 

For equipping devices I currently use sets of Arrays, 1 group has the Inventory items, 1 group has the Rendered items and the last array has the keywords. All of the arrays are arranged so everything lines up, I call item 4 from each array and I have all 3 parts I need to equip the device. Since DD isn't exactly picky on the keyword it will equip the devices.

FYI, there are several dozen arrays in CD storing devices, some sets have nearly 30 slots each.

 

For removing devices this is where the issue is. I use several commands from DD to get the device that is currently on the player that needs to be removed. Since I know what item I want to remove I know the keyword, everything else is based on it:

<Inv Item> = GetWornDevice( Actor, Primary Keyword)     - since the current scripts use the armbinder or yoke keyword to get this it can no longer find them since Heavy Bondage is now the primary keyword and what the command is looking for

<Rend Item> = GetRenderedDevice( <Inv Item> )    - since I have no inventory item I can't get the rendered item

The above method, so long as you know what device you want to remove (and therefore know the keyword for it) it can remove any item if you have the proper keyword to begin with. It takes longer to remove as the commands take time to look up the items, generally when people have issues removing items like belts and such then it is usually due to issues in their system that is clogging up Papyrus and causing it to time out or dump it as the system is very reliable.

 

The old keywords have been left so modders can use them to determine what the device is specifically and can be used in dialogue or a number of other ways.

 

All of the new items that bind the arms use the HeavyBondage keyword as the primary keyword so determining what version of DD is being used I can make an if statement using that info to set the Primary Keyword in the above sequence. If the heavy Bondage Keyword is detected I can tell the removal function to remove the item with that primary keyword and it will remove ANY device using it whether it is v3 or v4. 

 

As for the additional keywords like straightjacket and such if that keyword does not exist in the v3 mods or most current version of Assets then it can't be added as I would be creating the keyword and it would cause conflicts due to the different id's.

 

15 minutes ago, valcon767 said:

for #2 above CD's custom armbinder(s) and quests that involve armbinders:

 

i have an alternate suggestion (i freely admit i do not know how  much work this would take)

 

have you thought about switching what device is used for those quests/scenes??

 

if so i have a suggestion for a replacement item - Restrictive Gloves or Paw Bondage Mittens.

 

personally i would suggest the Restrictive Gloves (locked together).

 

the Restrictive Gloves do allow you to use items and wield weapons, but can be locked together (which stops the weapon usage at any rate)

and the Paw Bondage Mittens (under standard conditions) already stop weapon and magic usage and most item usage.

 

when looking at those (Restrictive Gloves, and Paw Bondage Mittens) in TES5Edit i found no versions of those having the new Heavy Bondage Keyword

(i could have missed something but i did try to look closely and didn't find any).

 

if this could in fact work (as a replacement for armbinders/yokes) when the Shop or a quest now uses an armbinder or yoke it might make it work

correctly without having to do a version check (and code or script changes on the fly).

 

this is just some thoughts (and ideas) to try to make it easier for people (you mainly) to be able to use the mod with whichever version of DDI, DDX they have

installed.

 

hopefully this information (and ideas) are helpful (at least somewhat).

 

I'm not a fan of the items added in v3 and I don't believe v3 supports locking the Restrictive Gloves together (I could be wrong but have not looked). The Paw Bondage Mittens don't have the visual appeal the armbinder does either, for me it is a matter of taste / preference and the CD sign is based on a woman in an armbinder as well. As it is I don't really have any set plans to use the v3 devices as of yet other than making some modified versions of the dresses for Master or Ariasha to use.

[DonQuiWho]

@Veladarius

 

Really appreciate the efforts you take to keep this going, and also your planned fixes to take account of the DD4 issues

 

I can't be sure from what I've managed to read if you plan for the next version to be able to be written over the existing mod, or be as materially different as require a completely new game

 

If the main development will require a full new game, for those of us with some fairly mature games who are trying to see those through, is there any chance of just a small patch to fix the limited changes you mention above will be needed for DD4?  Even if that were not fully supported, it would be useful to have

 

If that's really likely to cause an undue amount of work (or grief from users!), it's not the end of the world, so no worries 

[Veladarius]

3 hours ago, donkeywho said:

@Veladarius

 

Really appreciate the efforts you take to keep this going, and also your planned fixes to take account of the DD4 issues

 

I can't be sure from what I've managed to read if you plan for the next version to be able to be written over the existing mod, or be as materially different as require a completely new game

 

If the main development will require a full new game, for those of us with some fairly mature games who are trying to see those through, is there any chance of just a small patch to fix the limited changes you mention above will be needed for DD4?  Even if that were not fully supported, it would be useful to have

 

If that's really likely to cause an undue amount of work (or grief from users!), it's not the end of the world, so no worries 

I may require a new game, at minimum a clean save and cleaning the save would be required for the simple reason of removing unused properties from scripts, there are a lot of them floating around especially in Manor Slave where 1/3 of them are no longer used. I may wait to do this until I do a full v4 conversion at some point as that would definitely require a new game.

 

I am still hoping for some sort of change where I can update and the new DD would be enjoyable to use, v4 as it is gets annoying quickly (CD is the only mod I use that uses quest devices, everything else uses standard devices) and can set off a bipolar reaction and ends up frustrating me even more and I can't play it for a day or two let alone work on CD.

[DonQuiWho]

2 hours ago, Veladarius said:

I may require a new game, at minimum a clean save and cleaning the save would be required for the simple reason of removing unused properties from scripts, there are a lot of them floating around especially in Manor Slave where 1/3 of them are no longer used. I may wait to do this until I do a full v4 conversion at some point as that would definitely require a new game.

 

I am still hoping for some sort of change where I can update and the new DD would be enjoyable to use, v4 as it is gets annoying quickly (CD is the only mod I use that uses quest devices, everything else uses standard devices) and can set off a bipolar reaction and ends up frustrating me even more and I can't play it for a day or two let alone work on CD.

Thanks

 

Whichever you choose to do, pick the one that's best, and easiest, for you.  I'm sure the rest of us can live with whatever that turns out to be

[Vuzzar]

I think I have the same issue I had with Elisif but this time with Erani. I just finished To Fetch a Slave and I can bring her home with me but she just stands still when I tell her to follow me.

[Veladarius]

1 hour ago, Antaufein said:

I think I have the same issue I had with Elisif but this time with Erani. I just finished To Fetch a Slave and I can bring her home with me but she just stands still when I tell her to follow me.

Use SQV CDxDiaErani and check the stage, it should be 10 at this point. If not then use setstage to set it to 5, it will do a few things then set it to 10. It it is sitting at 5 then set it to 10 yourself.

 

I believe there are some option in the Slavery page for her. If you see the "Reset Erani Alias" use that, it only shows up if her alias is not filled. Otherwise use the main reset for Erani, it will remove and restore everything and should fix any alias issues as well. These essentially do the same actions as above so you can use either.

 

If you have a follower management mod of some sort you can make her a follower and tell her to follow you with that. I have used AFT to do it and there are no issues and it is easier to change her outfits with it.

[joshsecret]

Hello again Veladarius,

I've gotten my self into a weird situation again :3

 

Master put the these two items on me:

CD Chasity Belt Padded Silver

CD Padded Collar Silver

 

Because i asked for a job, had to receive a stolen shipment.
When i succesfully did that.. she paid me and that was it

 

When i ask her to remove the items she says i aint wearing anything that she can remove.
Although when she checks me out it says 2 captured dream devices.

 

what can i do ?

 

*******   I FIXED IT ! ***********
I went into the MCM > Captured dreams > than i went and did Quest resets.

It removed the belt and Collar

 

 

[Kimy]

On 1/29/2018 at 10:11 AM, Veladarius said:

Kimy, don't bother with saying that no other games offer the options DD did and if you really believe that only giving a difficulty slider is all that is necessary then I look forward to seeing that implemented in DCUR seeing as it has about 10x the options DD did. Also most of my quest items in CD would require script changes in v4 due to the extra effects added to many of them and making items in v3 was easy to do as well (if I could learn how to do it anyone can).

Apple meet orange?

 

DD is a -framework- (in other words, a developer resource), DCL is a -content mod - (in other words, a game).

 

If people continue to insist that a FRAMEWORK should be able to (allow users to) influence the GAMES using it, the only thing they prove hereby is that they don't have the slightest clue about what a framework is, or what one is there for. A framework is a developer tool. Do you also demand user controls for Unreal Engine to influence the difficulty of a shooter using it? No? Probably because it makes zero sense whatsoever, and nobody in their right mind would ever demand such a thing. Yet that's what people do here. It's really tiring me out, beating this dead horse over, and over, and over again, trying to explain basic principles of software design to people who don't want to or are unable to comprehend them.

 

As for the one component in DD that's actually a "content mod" (which is the standard library of devices), yes they should have a difficulty control. And they do. It's one slider that affects 15-20 settings at once. Which is really exactly how almost any other game does it.

 

To remain in the shooter analogy: Most of them have a difficulty slider. But have you have seen a shooter that has individual controls for

- adjusting your ammo amount

- adjusting trash mob ammo amount

- adjusting boss ammo amount

- adjusting your ammo caliber

- adjusting trash mob ammo caliber

- adjusting boss ammo caliber

- adjusting gun range of bosses

- adjusting gun range of trash mobs

- adjusting aggro range of bosses

- adjusting aggro range of trash mobs

- adjusting trash mob targeting accuracy

- adjusting boss targeting accuracy

- adjusting firing speed

- adjusting gun type used by trash mobs

- adjusting gun type used by bosses

- adjusting AI for trash mobs

- adjusting boss AI for boss A

- adjusting boss AI for boss B

- adjusting maximum speed for vehicle A

- adjusting maximum speed for vehicle B

 

No?

 

Not me either.

 

Probably because no game ever implemented difficulty controls like that. They have...one slider that controls all of the above at once. To suggest that games need or should have individual controls like that is absolutely ludicrous.

 

And yet that's exactly what you continue to bitch about and call me out on, again, and again, and again.

 

I swear if you just had bitched less and coded more, your mod would run in DD4 just nicely already. I needed about 2-3 days to convert DCL, and DCL is more complex than CD.

 

PS: This is your thread and you can bitch about DD4 here as long as you wish, but if you call me out by name, you have to accept that I post back. Because I am sick of all this crap people throw at me for trying to make DD a better framework.

[Veladarius]

10 minutes ago, Kimy said:

Apple meet orange?

 

DD is a -framework- (in other words, a developer resource), DCL is a -content mod - (in other words, a game).

 

If people continue to insist that a FRAMEWORK should be able to (allow users to) influence the GAMES using it, the only thing they prove hereby is that they don't have the slightest clue about what a framework is, or what one is there for. A framework is a developer tool. Do you also demand user controls for Unreal Engine to influence the difficulty of a shooter using it? No? Probably because it makes zero sense whatsoever, and nobody in their right mind would ever demand such a thing. Yet that's what people do here. It's really tiring me out, beating this dead horse over, and over, and over again, trying to explain basic principles of software design to people who don't want to or are unable to comprehend them.

 

As for the one component in DD that's actually a "content mod" (which is the standard library of devices), yes they should have a difficulty control. And they do. It's one slider that affects 15-20 settings at once. Which is really exactly how almost any other game does it.

 

To remain in the shooter analogy: Most of them have a difficulty slider. But have you have seen a shooter that has individual controls for

- adjusting your ammo amount

- adjusting trash mob ammo amount

- adjusting boss ammo amount

- adjusting your ammo caliber

- adjusting trash mob ammo caliber

- adjusting boss ammo caliber

- adjusting gun range of bosses

- adjusting gun range of trash mobs

- adjusting aggro range of bosses

- adjusting aggro range of trash mobs

- adjusting trash mob targeting accuracy

- adjusting boss targeting accuracy

- adjusting firing speed

- adjusting gun type used by trash mobs

- adjusting gun type used by bosses

- adjusting AI for trash mobs

- adjusting boss AI for boss A

- adjusting boss AI for boss B

- adjusting maximum speed for vehicle A

- adjusting maximum speed for vehicle B

 

No?

 

Not me either.

 

Probably because no game ever implemented difficulty controls like that. They have...one slider that controls all of the above at once. To suggest that games need or should have individual controls like that is absolutely ludicrous.

 

And yet that's exactly what you continue to bitch about and call me out on, again, and again, and again.

 

I swear if you just had bitched less and coded more, your mod would run in DD4 just nicely already. I needed about 2-3 days to convert DCL, and DCL is more complex than CD.

 

PS: This is your thread and you can bitch about DD4 here as long as you wish, but if you call me out by name, you have to accept that I post back. Because I am sick of all this crap people throw at me for trying to make DD a better framework.

Every other framework here on LL has options, lots of them. Comparing a mod framework to a FPS is apple meets orange far more than my comment ever was by leaps and bounds. I am running mods that have more options than DD does now or ever did. DCL may be more complex as far as some of what it does but it is a bits and pieces mod most of which can be replaced by other mods (i know as I have). CD has far more dialogue, scenes, quests and story which is all linked to each other and is far more than DCL will ever be.

 

Yes, I could make a release now with the changes to make CD minimally compatible with v4 but I am in the middle of building new content and rebuilding some parts that had some issues so v4 compatibility can wait until I am done. I get little time to actually work on things due to medication effects and side effects so progress is slow, nothing I can do about it.

 

v4 has made DD a completely unenjoyable experience for me (and others) to play, nice work.

[Kimy]

EVERY other framework? Hyperbole much? There are only two larger Skryim frameworks other than DD I can think of: SexLab and ZAP.  ZAP has barely any MCM controls. Guess because it's a modder resource? Yes, Sexlab for sure has lots of options - every single one of them purely cosmetic. There isn't one setting in SexLab you could influence content mod behavior with. Yet, that's exactly what you're bitching about.

 

And yes, CD has more scenes than DCL, but I fail to understand in what way any change in DD4 should require you to update any of them in any but the most marginal fashion. The only thing you -have- to update is the wrist restraint keywords. Gosh, use Find and Replace for them and iterate through your code, it's not rocket science.

 

I told you back then I don't care if you update your mod. Do it or don't. You want to sit in your little corner and cry like a baby because I took away your precious individual settings, which I explained above, no other game would ever offer to you. Yes, I noticed how you conveniently ignored that point, because you don't want to see it. It's ok. People hardly ever are able to admit when they are wrong, and you are no exception.

 

Anyway, I am just sick of this crap, and trust me, interacting with you is a lot more unpleasant for me that using DD4 ever could be for you. It's also funny how hollow your last apology to me appears to me now, in the light of the fact that you still can't go more than 3 pages of thread without bashing DD4 and/or me. No need to issue another. I won't accept it this time. I sympathize with the difficulties you have to endure, but this doesn't give you the right to constantly bash other people and their work. We all have our damages. I have my own, and trust me, they get in my way at times, too. But I still have to take responsibility for my actions.

 

I am done talking to you. I will leave you to your thread and your whining. And I wish to have no further dealings with you.

 

/ignore

[Endrush]

*Sneaks out the window while mommy and daddy keep fighting.* Seriously tho, I never thought I'd see my 2 favorite mod authors fight. It's not exactly a competition. *shrugs*

[davisev5225]

58 minutes ago, Kimy said:

<snip>

Holy crap, I had no idea such an argument was taking place!  I have some quick thoughts to direct to both of you, after which I will not attempt to continue this pointless argument.

 

 

 

Kimy: Do you not understand that people NEVER like having choices taken away from them?  That's what you did with the 4.0 framework changes - you removed player choices and customization.  You may feel it was a better decision from a development standpoint, but you seem to be deliberately ignoring the inherent negativity of taking things away.  You've enabled yourself to deliver a carefully crafted experience, but at the expense of forcing that experience upon everyone rather than allowing them to tailor things to the experience they would prefer.

 

---

 

Veladarius: The new framework works fine, there's no reason to cry over it.  Yes, it means you have to re-factor some code here-and-there just like every other DD mod author (including myself), but overall the new framework is faster and more efficient than it was before.  That's a good thing for heavily-modded installs.  You should be grateful that it only affected hand/arm bindings, rather than the entire suite of device types.  That said, you do have a point that the change was abrupt, didn't include a "legacy system" to make transitions easier, and seems generally overbearing.

 

Here's the thing, though: you can either be a stick-in-the-mud and refuse to update, whining the entire time, or you can adapt.  I know from personal experience, with a MUCH smaller user-base, that people will consistently request anything that you haven't already implemented.  New bindings require the new framework, so unless you feel like alienating a large chunk of your (potential) user-base by not including the shiny new bindings that they want, you will need to adapt.  Your whining is not going to change DD back to what it was before, so I do not understand why you persist in denigrating it so much.

 

---

 

Both of you: It's stupid to argue.  You both made your points a long time ago, so why persist?  Just grow up and move on.

[Laura]

22 minutes ago, davisev5225 said:

Holy crap, I had no idea such an argument was taking place!  I have some quick thoughts to direct to both of you, after which I will not attempt to continue this pointless argument.

 

 

 

Kimy: Do you not understand that people NEVER like having choices taken away from them?  That's what you did with the 4.0 framework changes - you removed player choices and customization.  You may feel it was a better decision from a development standpoint, but you seem to be deliberately ignoring the inherent negativity of taking things away.  You've enabled yourself to deliver a carefully crafted experience, but at the expense of forcing that experience upon everyone rather than allowing them to tailor things to the experience they would prefer.

 

---

 

Veladarius: The new framework works fine, there's no reason to cry over it.  Yes, it means you have to re-factor some code here-and-there just like every other DD mod author (including myself), but overall the new framework is faster and more efficient than it was before.  That's a good thing for heavily-modded installs.  You should be grateful that it only affected hand/arm bindings, rather than the entire suite of device types.  That said, you do have a point that the change was abrupt, didn't include a "legacy system" to make transitions easier, and seems generally overbearing.

 

Here's the thing, though: you can either be a stick-in-the-mud and refuse to update, whining the entire time, or you can adapt.  I know from personal experience, with a MUCH smaller user-base, that people will consistently request anything that you haven't already implemented.  New bindings require the new framework, so unless you feel like alienating a large chunk of your (potential) user-base by not including the shiny new bindings that they want, you will need to adapt.  Your whining is not going to change DD back to what it was before, so I do not understand why you persist in denigrating it so much.

 

---

 

Both of you: It's stupid to argue.  You both made your points a long time ago, so why persist?  Just grow up and move on.

 

I completely agree.

I respect both sides.

But this is just getting stupid.

I've seen this unfold and escalate to a childish degree.

 

Yes, I like DD4 and the new devices and animations it brings.

But I don't like how it took some customisation away.

I always thought of keys a guaranteed escape and I can't do that now.

I would have prefered differently, but I can live with it.

 

But somehow this different preference, turned into hate for some people.

 

If you two can just stop repeating the same things and help each other out.

Give people back their choice and make both mods not only compatible, but complementary.

 

I love you both.

Please calm down.

 

[Veladarius]

11 minutes ago, davisev5225 said:

Veladarius: The new framework works fine, there's no reason to cry over it.  Yes, it means you have to re-factor some code here-and-there just like every other DD mod author (including myself), but overall the new framework is faster and more efficient than it was before.  That's a good thing for heavily-modded installs.  You should be grateful that it only affected hand/arm bindings, rather than the entire suite of device types.  That said, you do have a point that the change was abrupt, didn't include a "legacy system" to make transitions easier, and seems generally overbearing.

My issue is and always has been the loss of adjustments. I was part of the dev team when this was optional, I didn't like it then and I don't like it now. As for anything else in the new version I have not said anything other than the fact that devices are stored and it seems that events and such are being polled from there so removing a broken item via console will no longer work as the effect will still happen. I care about the game play aspect of it more than anything else and as far as I am concerned that has been ruined for me.

 

When I play I use 1 option, key breakage set to 5%, everything else is off. This is how I prefer it when I play and now if I update to v4 I am stuck with standard devices with options I don't want and not the one I do. I said I would try it, I did and the experience made me to not want to use any DD mods at all. I also said I would look for ways to change it, I still have not given up on that as of yet.

 

Updating isn't an issue, never has been and will be easier than updating to use the questitem keyword / removal function and future releases will be able to handle both v3 and v4 armbinders, yokes and similar devices in the same release. The only thing that will require any major change is the quest armbinder and I plan on just releasing a patch to replace the v3 version with a v4 version for people that want to use v4. Truthfully the change to HeavyBondage was a good move considering all the added items that are of the same class as the armbinders and yokes and eliminates the need to look for a lot of different device keywords when removing them.

 

Creating new devices was never an issue either as I have made hundreds of them, even quest devices. I made devices that did not even have a classification in DD at the time (I made catsuits and hoods before they were ever added to DD officially and requested keywords be included in Assets for them). I have made a lot of devices for other mods, once the first one is made it is pretty much just copy/paste/adjust. My quest items required some scripting to modify the menu and add functions when those options are attempted to be used, that still would require scripting in v4. If I really wanted to add items from v4 I could simply use the assets and make my own version (except for items requiring the new animations).

 

 

11 minutes ago, davisev5225 said:

Here's the thing, though: you can either be a stick-in-the-mud and refuse to update, whining the entire time, or you can adapt.  I know from personal experience, with a MUCH smaller user-base, that people will consistently request anything that you haven't already implemented.  New bindings require the new framework, so unless you feel like alienating a large chunk of your (potential) user-base by not including the shiny new bindings that they want, you will need to adapt.  Your whining is not going to change DD back to what it was before, so I do not understand why you persist in denigrating it so much.

I have said what I am willing to do, besides a lot of what was added to v4 is from other mods. I do not plan on doing a full update to v4 and use its items, why should I use something in my mod that I find unenjoyable? I will make enough changes so CD operates under v4 and that is it. If you positively have to have the shiny new items look elsewhere, I believe my player base uses my mod for the quests, and other content and if not using the new devices is a deal breaker then so long. First priority in making CD is what I want it to be, second is player requests but if it does not fit with what I want then I won't do it. If people get bent out of shape over not having the new items in CD then I will halt development and lock it down and set permissions that it can't be altered in any way shape or form. If people liken this to whining and taking my ball and leaving then so be it, when it comes to CD it is my game and if you don't like the rules I set out then don't play. v4 for me makes for a poor playing experience and I won't continue to mod if I can't enjoy the game.

 

And again, I denigrate it because I find the playability of it to be unenjoyable and annoying at a minimum. My Skyrim setup uses the old NMM so everything is in my data folder, no profiles and I don't plan on changing. I playtest CD with all of my mods in place and have no issues with my game or CD, if I do find issues with CD I work to fix them (I have a page of items currently that needs addressing that I have found through casual play with most being minor. This is the mod stats of what I have in NMM:

Many of the active mods have been in place since 2015 or earlier, I have no reason to update a mod if what I have works. I only update mods if it has new features I want to use (v4 certainly doesn't) or makes it work better with other mods I have.

 

The next release for CD will work as intended whether you use v3 or v4.

 

[shadowwolf2k7]

not to change the subject but i do have a question.

 

during the embassy quest "party favors" on the third day while talking to the guests, did elenwyn almost give away the masters real name? or was that just my imagination?

 

on to what you were saying about your mod.

 

i do play the quests from your mod as a normal part of game play, i also use CRDE to improve follower interactions, coupled with SLD and SD+ for sub/dom interactions with my favorite follower, which makes my game play the way i want to. not sure if i asked you @Veladarius if it would be possible outside of the Chaste spouse to have that same type of play with only CD or not. i know it would help lower my mod load order having just one mod that can do what now takes 3 mods to do. IMO your mod and the items in it would make the follower wanting to go and see if the special plugs are on sale mean something, seeing as i could RP it as a gift from the follower to their sub, or as a way of asking to have them put in as a sub follower.

[Veladarius]

18 minutes ago, shadowwolf2k7 said:

not to change the subject but i do have a question.

 

during the embassy quest "party favors" on the third day while talking to the guests, did elenwyn almost give away the masters real name? or was that just my imagination?

Yes and I believe you are the first person to ever say something about it since the quest was made.

 

18 minutes ago, shadowwolf2k7 said:

on to what you were saying about your mod.

 

i do play the quests from your mod as a normal part of game play, i also use CRDE to improve follower interactions, coupled with SLD and SD+ for sub/dom interactions with my favorite follower, which makes my game play the way i want to. not sure if i asked you @Veladarius if it would be possible outside of the Chaste spouse to have that same type of play with only CD or not. i know it would help lower my mod load order having just one mod that can do what now takes 3 mods to do. IMO your mod and the items in it would make the follower wanting to go and see if the special plugs are on sale mean something, seeing as i could RP it as a gift from the follower to their sub, or as a way of asking to have them put in as a sub follower.

It is something I have considered lately, especially if I do something with Milk Mod Economy as both would go well together (MME would be optional of course). Currently the Chaste Spouse system uses an Alias with the different AI behaviors to get them to use and stay on the furniture. I would just have to build an alternate that could use much of the functionality of Chaste Spouse but with followers. There would be a set number of slots that could be used as each requires its own alias to govern behavior.

[Vuzzar]

6 hours ago, Veladarius said:

Use SQV CDxDiaErani and check the stage, it should be 10 at this point. If not then use setstage to set it to 5, it will do a few things then set it to 10. It it is sitting at 5 then set it to 10 yourself.

 

I believe there are some option in the Slavery page for her. If you see the "Reset Erani Alias" use that, it only shows up if her alias is not filled. Otherwise use the main reset for Erani, it will remove and restore everything and should fix any alias issues as well. These essentially do the same actions as above so you can use either.

 

If you have a follower management mod of some sort you can make her a follower and tell her to follow you with that. I have used AFT to do it and there are no issues and it is easier to change her outfits with it.

Tried both Reset Erani Alias and Main reset and both failed, she just keeps staring at me with her arms crossed and when I get at a certain distance from her she keeps initiating the dialogue starting with "I am happy you are giving me the chance to serve you, I will do whatever I can to make you happy." I do have AFT but I can't make her follow me and if I move her to me, she will walk back to the same spot in the VIP house. Could it be another endscene issue?

[Veladarius]

42 minutes ago, Antaufein said:

Tried both Reset Erani Alias and Main reset and both failed, she just keeps staring at me with her arms crossed and when I get at a certain distance from her she keeps initiating the dialogue starting with "I am happy you are giving me the chance to serve you, I will do whatever I can to make you happy." I do have AFT but I can't make her follow me and if I move her to me, she will walk back to the same spot in the VIP house. Could it be another endscene issue?

1 - check the status of the following quest:  SQV CDxExpQuest04

This is the quest the scene is from, if the quest is not at stage 900 or is not shown as completed in the quest journal let me know. Use the above command to find out what the stage is and tell me and I can direct you from there.

 

2 - If the quest is done or at stage 900 (or both) then the scene you want to end is xx07643d using stopscene <id>

 

3 - make sure that the CDxDiaErani quest is at stage 10, if not then reset it again.

[Vuzzar]

11 minutes ago, Veladarius said:

2 - If the quest is done or at stage 900 (or both) then the scene you want to end is xx07643d using stopscene <id>

Yup, that was it! Thanks!

[Lupine00]

I managed to get through manor slavery. Apart from the blocking point I had before, the only further dust-pile issues I had were caused by double assignment of the sweeping task in one day. That definitely does happen, and it definitely does break. Everything appears populated in the variables, but nothing gets spawned.

 

I never got a trip to the VIP house. Did I miss something? Is there some criteria you have to fulfil to get sent there? Too late for me now, but would have been nice to know. Also, the planter boxes thing had me baffled. I'd be asked to check the planters, but even though I planted every soil spot the first time I got this, nothing ever happened after that. Was there another thing I needed to do? And if I did, what difference would it have made. I managed to pass the task anyway when it came up again, and again, even though there was nothing left to do.

 

So, I accepted Relationship Slavery as the outcome.

 

Is there much content there? It sounds like there are lots more quests now. What is the process to access them?

Do I need to ask for a job, or should I be trying different dialog options? How often can I ask? Does it make a difference? Does time have to pass?

All that stuff...

 

Now, I remember, almost a year back, relationship slavery amounted to that quest where you get ganked by forcegreeting bandits, and another where you do regular bandit murdering and retrieve a package. That, and punishments for failing the delivery quest, which I always did, though DCL wasn't making things easy for me on most of those trips

 

From what I'm reading now, there's much more possible, or going on, but like with the VIP house, it seems really easy to miss.

 

Any hints on what I should do, generally? Not massive spoilers though.

[Lupine00]

I had one major bug in finishing the manor quest.

 

In the morning, when you greet Markus, and the first two task quest assignments scroll past, if you Esc out of answering Markus instead of saying "Yes sir" or "Get fapped jackass", Markus goes into a stuck state.

 

He continues to greet you as if it's the first time he's seen you that day, but doesn't offer any other dialogue, it's just a brush off with no entry into a topic.

 

And it persists. There is no way out of that state. You can do the tasks, or fail them, or sleep and see him the next day. He remains broken.

Once you are late for the quests, he will get mad at you, take away your progress points, and tell you that you'll be punished, but the next morning you'll just get the brush off again, no punishment, no forgiveness. Basically he remains in that broken state forever.

 

While it's possible this is a rare bug, and usually if the player quits out of the morning task dialog without answering this doesn't happen. But if it does... the consequences when it happens are quite extreme. The game is perma-broken, and you really must quit and reload.

 

I think, maybe it would be possible to code the conditions defensively, so that if things go sideways, the worst is that you fail only one day and then it unsticks. But the root cause is clearly tracking multiple states, when there should probably only be one state and one way to determine status. If there is only one status test, you're either in one state or another, and can never be in two conflicting states. Quest stages are made for this, they can be tested directly in dialog conditions, and they are essentially atomic. While that would probably limit things to tracking one task at a time, instead of two, it would be safer. Just saying.

 

But putting the issues aside, CD does a huge amount of stuff without breaking that lots of other mods always seem to get broken trying to do.

 

 

Just a thought, is it developed under Win 7, or Win 10? Because my CK is the most fragile, crashy, crap-producing POS I've ever come across ... on Win 10.

I can make a vanilla quest with nothing in it but a few lines of dialogue - with no conditions at all - and seven times out of ten, the dialog doesn't show up, though other parts of the quest work. Quit and restart the CK a few times (which takes forever) and it saves out a working one. Magic!

I'm seriously considering setting up a PC with 7, if it will actually make the CK usable.

[Veladarius]

2 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

I had one major bug in finishing the manor quest.

 

In the morning, when you greet Markus, and the first two task quest assignments scroll past, if you Esc out of answering Markus instead of saying "Yes sir" or "Get fapped jackass", Markus goes into a stuck state.

 

He continues to greet you as if it's the first time he's seen you that day, but doesn't offer any other dialogue, it's just a brush off with no entry into a topic.

 

And it persists. There is no way out of that state. You can do the tasks, or fail them, or sleep and see him the next day. He remains broken.

Once you are late for the quests, he will get mad at you, take away your progress points, and tell you that you'll be punished, but the next morning you'll just get the brush off again, no punishment, no forgiveness. Basically he remains in that broken state forever.

 

While it's possible this is a rare bug, and usually if the player quits out of the morning task dialog without answering this doesn't happen. But if it does... the consequences when it happens are quite extreme. The game is perma-broken, and you really must quit and reload.

 

I think, maybe it would be possible to code the conditions defensively, so that if things go sideways, the worst is that you fail only one day and then it unsticks. But the root cause is clearly tracking multiple states, when there should probably only be one state and one way to determine status. If there is only one status test, you're either in one state or another, and can never be in two conflicting states. Quest stages are made for this, they can be tested directly in dialog conditions, and they are essentially atomic. While that would probably limit things to tracking one task at a time, instead of two, it would be safer. Just saying.

 

But putting the issues aside, CD does a huge amount of stuff without breaking that lots of other mods always seem to get broken trying to do.

 

 

Just a thought, is it developed under Win 7, or Win 10? Because my CK is the most fragile, crashy, crap-producing POS I've ever come across ... on Win 10.

I can make a vanilla quest with nothing in it but a few lines of dialogue - with no conditions at all - and seven times out of ten, the dialog doesn't show up, though other parts of the quest work. Quit and restart the CK a few times (which takes forever) and it saves out a working one. Magic!

I'm seriously considering setting up a PC with 7, if it will actually make the CK usable.

Manor Slave is being rebuilt, I am getting close to finishing it but still have the new tasks that have just been built are still need built to add to scripting as of yet, dialogue is already there. All of Markus's opening and closing dialogue has been rebuilt so hopefully this issue will not happen again.

 

I am working in Win 10 and I understand your plight with the CK and dialogue after updating from Win 10 (my pc did it without asking). Mine has had issues off and on but here are some things I have learned since my pc updated and have worked with the CK in win 10:

- 90% of the time if I try moving dialogue to another topic it crashes instantly.

- Another issue I have is that the line where you would enter the player dialogue is grayed out and nothing can be entered there and no dialogue can be created for the npc, only fix for this is to save, close the CK and reopen it.

- Another thing is sometimes I do some scripting on a stage or something and tell it to close and it starts to but the quest window never closes fully, all the tabs and such are gone but it still has the 'close' button. I figured out that you should just close it with the 'X' in the upper corner instead of hitting the close button or it will likely crash.

- Be patient and don't hit the close button multiple times or things like that either for the quest or dialogue boxes, it will be more likely to freak out and crash. When closing the quest and you have made any new Aliases or changes to scripting in a stage it will compile the script again before closing.

 

My settings for it in the file properties for the CK is NOT to use compatibility mode or run as administrator as I found these made it worse.

 

Also, if the quest you have made is new and is set to run at startup (basically it is active when the game starts even if you are not using it yet) you need to make a SEQ file for it or the dialogue for the quest probably won't show up in game at all, basically the file tells the game that the quest exists and to enable its dialogue (another bug of the game engine). You can make one via TESVEdit and it is fairly easy but is something that a new modder may not know about.

 

Hopefully some of this is useful and I understand your pain as I have gone and created the same dialogue multiple times myself.

[Lupine00]

1 hour ago, Veladarius said:

Also, if the quest you have made is new and is set to run at startup (basically it is active when the game starts even if you are not using it yet) you need to make a SEQ file for it or the dialogue for the quest probably won't show up in game at all, basically the file tells the game that the quest exists and to enable its dialogue (another bug of the game engine). You can make one via TESVEdit and it is fairly easy but is something that a new modder may not know about.

That's the first thing that came up in google. But making it work without restarting the CK, in MO, turned out to be tricky. What nobody seemed to be saying, was whether you need to re-run this whenever you change dialogue? Is that the case?

 

The description generally given is that SEQ starts quests that start at game start-up. So if your quest starts later, perhaps from a script, it's not needed, and you shouldn't have to re-run it every time you alter dialogue. But I'm not sure that story is true...

 

For testing, I made my dialogue container quest start from an activation item. (I found that if I put any aliases in the same quest as the one with the dialogue, it stopped the dialogue showing, though others seem to get away with it, it's the magic of my CK). This didn't make the dialogue show up. OTOH, making a new NPC magically made dialogue show up. For everyone! It's so broken it's hard to even discern a pattern.

 

I have a feeling that in some cases the CK and MO aren't entirely compatible.

[Veladarius]

40 minutes ago, Lupine00 said:

That's the first thing that came up in google. But making it work without restarting the CK, in MO, turned out to be tricky. What nobody seemed to be saying, was whether you need to re-run this whenever you change dialogue? Is that the case?

 

The description generally given is that SEQ starts quests that start at game start-up. So if your quest starts later, perhaps from a script, it's not needed, and you shouldn't have to re-run it every time you alter dialogue. But I'm not sure that story is true...

 

For testing, I made my dialogue container quest start from an activation item. (I found that if I put any aliases in the same quest as the one with the dialogue, it stopped the dialogue showing, though others seem to get away with it, it's the magic of my CK). This didn't make the dialogue show up. OTOH, making a new NPC magically made dialogue show up. For everyone! It's so broken it's hard to even discern a pattern.

 

I have a feeling that in some cases the CK and MO aren't entirely compatible.

The only time you need to generate a new SEQ file is when you create a new quest with dialogue that is set to run from startup. If the quest does not start until a script or something else starts it and it is inactive until then then updating the SEQ file is not necessary. As for the dialogue not showing up on correct people it is likely a condition issue. Also, use sqv <quest name> and check the aliases and make sure they have filled, if you have the dialogue set to look for the npc via the alias and it isn't filled then it won't show. If it is showing up on everyone except the npc you specify then you may have it set so if the speaker is actor x and set to = 0 then it will show for everyone but them. Not setting any sort of condition on who can see it will cause it to show up on everyone (I have forgotten that condition a number of times). Dialogue should generally be set to Top Level if you want it to show up in their initial list of dialogue, Blocking if you want it to show up by itself (increase the priority of the quest and starting dialogue to about 80 if you want to bypass things like DCUR dialogue. Normal is if the starting dialogue is linked to by other dialogue or is started by a force greet and won't show up otherwise.

 

When I make a new quest once I make the aliases I create a quest stage of 0 and put a ; in it and compile it. This will generate a quest that is linked directly to the aliases. You will then need to close the quest, reopen it, go to stage 0 and the advanced tab and rename it, usually I just take off the prefix and added stuff at the end so it has the same name as the quest. I use this quest for everything that goes in the quest such as common functions and such. Also, all of the quest stage script fragments will be placed in this script so if you have any functions that would need called by the stage you don't have to go and set up another quest script as a property and can call it directly. The only issue with this is that you can't set it to conditional from the start, you can add the conditional flag to the script but any changes to scripts on stages or adding / removing aliases will remove the conditional flag so you will have to add it back in. Here is an example of it:

;BEGIN FRAGMENT CODE - Do not edit anything between this and the end comment
;NEXT FRAGMENT INDEX 4
Scriptname CDxSlavery_Prop_Manor Extends Quest Hidden conditional

It is a pain when you forget to put it back as any properties set as conditional (goes after the 'auto' part of the property) will not longer be linked but putting the conditional flag back on the script will let conditions see them again.

 

Here is a link to what all of the conditions do: Condition Functions