NAF Bridge

[Andy14]

2 hours ago, Evi1Panda said:

@Andy14 

Thanks for the report. The specific issue you described (Violett selecting only single-actor scenes) has been identified and fixed in 1.41. Your feedback was crucial for pinpointing this.

I understand that frequent version changes and instability can be frustrating. However, the project is currently in a necessary phase of large-scale refactoring. The old Papyrus codebase was unsustainable for future development. Rewriting it is a complex puzzle with minimal documentation, akin to reverse-engineering logic built for a different system.

 

This approach has two paths:

1. Spend dozens of hours internally testing every mod combination before release.

2. Release functional but potentially rough versions and iterate quickly based on concrete community reports, like yours.

 

I've chosen path #2 to move the project forward more efficiently. It saves development time and allows fixes to be based on real-world use.

Therefore, while I share your frustration, the most helpful way to interact is to continue providing specific, fact-based reports like this one. They are invaluable.

I've been developing software for over 30 years and I know what it means to "clean up old code." For developers, it's the ultimate punishment.

And I'm not really frustrated. That would sound completely different.😆

I've simply decided to continue playing with version 1.16 for a while, as this version really works flawlessly. Since I had the scene length set to 120 anyway, I don't have any problems with incomplete scenes.

The only thing I miss in 1.16 is jumping to the scene using the spacebar and the right arrow key.

So, don't let it bother you, and above all, don't rush it.😉

Thanks for your work, everything's fine.👍

[Evi1Panda]

1 hour ago, Andy14 said:

I've been developing software for over 30 years

It's been an impressive experience, and I'm probably not the one to lecture you on development. Your perspective is likely spot-on. I was speaking in general terms, though — I just wanted to make sure no one gets the wrong idea from the number of recent fixes, thinking things are going poorly. That's absolutely not the case. In fact, I'm really pleased with how everything is progressing now. I feel we're incredibly close to what we've been striving for from the start of this project.

[dosfox]

Can anybody help me with this? While installing v1.41 very late last night i did something wrong - not sure exactly what. On boot up the game CTDed before reaching the main menu. Reinstalling NAFbridge did not fix the problem.

The only way i could get the game to launch was by uninstalling all the animation packs, NAF, NAFbridge and NAFicator. So, did that, made a new save and reinstalled AAF and the animation packs, and the game still launched. But as soon as AAF is disabled and NAF/NAFbridge is installed, the game again crashes before main menu.

 

@Andy14 mentioned a similar problem earlier in this thread, but his only solution was to start a new game. I've put nearly 400 hours into this playthrough and would love to avoid starting a new game. Any suggestions?

[Evi1Panda]

@dosfox The update did not affect the dll part that loads together with the game data (before the main menu) in any way — nothing could have changed there, and all scripts are loaded together with your save file. You should attach at least Buffout log.

[Evi1Panda]

In general, it is very bad practice to install and remove modifications during platthrough. This is due to the peculiarities of the scripting system — when the order of modifications is changed, the properties of the script are lost. Let's say you inserted a new esp earlier in the order - all forms below it in the order at that moment changed their FormID, and then disaster strikes: your scripts may lose the forms they referenced. This is a direct path to undefined behavior.

 

If you are involved in this, you need to ensure that order is maintained, use placeholders rather than simply disabling mods, and probably have placeholders in different parts of the load sheet so that you can insert a new modification in their place to guarantee the integrity of the order with which you started your game.

 

You also need to remember and take into account that ESM/ESP and ESL/ESPFE actually have their own loading sequences, which are loosely related to each other but not relevant to each other.

[Evi1Panda]

There are some compensation mechanisms to prevent these problems, for example in F4SE, but in practice this does not always work. I find it difficult to say why this is the case; it needs to dive deep into reversing code. Most often, this is noticeable in the scripting system. 

[dosfox]

1 hour ago, Evi1Panda said:

You should attach at least Buffout log.

 

No Buffout log generated. These f4se logs might be relevant:

f4se.log    MCM.log    NAF.log

 

13 minutes ago, Evi1Panda said:

In general, it is very bad practice to install and remove modifications during playthrough.

 

Yes, i would generally never do that, but i needed to get into the game to Clipboard several recent settlements, which fortunately i was able to do. At this stage i can't see any remedy but to reinstall from scratch and start a new game.

 

Edited December 29, 2025 by dosfox

[Evi1Panda]

5 minutes ago, dosfox said:

 

No Buffout log generated. These f4se logs might be relevant:

 

f4se.log 8.28 kB · 0 downloads     MCM.log 2.71 kB · 0 downloads     NAF.log 1.61 kB · 0 downloads

 

Will main menu crash if you just rename NAF.dll to NAF.anythingElse?

[dosfox]

16 minutes ago, Evi1Panda said:

Will main menu crash if you just rename NAF.dll to NAF.anythingElse?

The only way i was able to get into main menu was to remove Animations, NAF and NAFbridge. This left a few dozen unattached scripts in Save File which i cleaned  with ReSaver. This got me into the game and left enough functionality to travel around and Clipboard the settlements i needed.

[Evi1Panda]

@dosfox, thanks for the detailed update. I need to clarify a few technical points.

The question about renaming NAF.dll was key for diagnostics, because version 1.41 did not change NAF.dll at all. Everything that was updated operates after a save is loaded, not during the initial game data load (before the main menu). A crash at that stage typically points to corrupted game data, if we talking about what NAF.dll doing before gamedata was loaded - it works with its serialize archives, compare xml-data with serialized.
 

Since no Buffout log was generated, the next best step would have been to check whether the game launches with NAF.dll temporarily disabled (renamed). That would tell us if the crash originates from the DLL itself or from something else in your setup.

 

If the crash is related to NAF Bridge, the most likely culprit during menu load is the serialized NAF archive (which updates automatically when XML dates change). Deleting it would force a clean regeneration — but we can't test that now without knowing the DLL's role in the crash.

I understand you’ve already moved on to a clean reinstall, but for future reference or for others who might encounter this:
We need reproducible steps or specific test results — like "the game launches with NAF.dll renamed but crashes when it's present" — to isolate the issue. Saying “I did something” makes it impossible to distinguish between a mod issue and a setup/order problem. Andy14's crash might have been similar in symptom but different in root cause — without tests, we’re just guessing.

 

If you decide to investigate this save again, please let me know the result of the NAF.dll rename test. I’m happy to help further if we can get concrete diagnostic data.

[dosfox]

39 minutes ago, Evi1Panda said:

I understand you’ve already moved on to a clean reinstall, but for future reference or for others who might encounter this:

Haven't started reinstall yet. Renamed NAF.dll and still crashes before menu.

 

edit: The 3 logs above were similar. The MCM log is the only one which specifically mentions NAF problems.

Edited December 29, 2025 by dosfox

[Evi1Panda]

So, rename NAF mcm folder to smth else, and if crashes will continue that means you have some incorrect data that game or some mods can't process. For example it can be incorrect esp, overhead of esp plugins (over xFD), incorrect loose file names.

[dosfox]

40 minutes ago, Evi1Panda said:

So, rename NAF mcm folder to smth else,

Renamed NAF.bak to original NAF.dll, renamed NAF MCM folder, still crashing before menu.

 

40 minutes ago, Evi1Panda said:

For example it can be incorrect esp, overhead of esp plugins (over xFD), incorrect loose file names.

 

There were no other changes to existing functioning load order except installing NAFbridge 1.41.

 

Here is recent crash log showing current plugin list. crash-2025-12-25-11-25-38.log

 

Edited December 29, 2025 by dosfox

[Evi1Panda]

I understand. Nevertheless, there are assumptions, and there are facts. The facts stubbornly indicate that something did occur. It is likely that something happened unintentionally. 

 

upd: Complaints in the MCM log are complaints about old settings that are no longer used in the menu and have no bindings. There is nothing to worry about here. You can simply delete AAF.ini in MCM, and it will be recreated with the correct settings.

Edited December 29, 2025 by Evi1Panda

[dosfox]

17 minutes ago, Evi1Panda said:

It is likely that something happened unintentionally.

 

It is possible i may have moved Overwrite\MCM folder to mo2\mods\NAFbridge folder. Just can't remember ...

[Evi1Panda]

19 minutes ago, dosfox said:

 

It is possible i may have moved Overwrite\MCM folder to mo2\mods\NAFbridge folder. Just can't remember ...

hmm... try to copy MCM/Config/settings.ini to MCM/Settings/AAF.ini

[dosfox]

38 minutes ago, Evi1Panda said:

try to copy MCM/Config/settings.ini to MCM/Settings/AAF.ini

 

You mean copy settings.ini to MCM\Settings and rename as AAF.ini? Tried that already, no joy.

 

BTW is it safe to move Overwrite\MCM to mod folder?

 

Edited December 29, 2025 by dosfox

[Evi1Panda]

@dosfox yes, mostly it is safe enough. I mean maybe this file is require to be filled full to Bridge works fine. I dont remember how it implemented.

[dosfox]

Thank you Panda, you have wasted too much valuable time trying to identify my problem. At this stage it doesn't look like other users are having the same problem, but this has been the first pre-menu crash i've had since before v1.10.163 update. It has been very interesting and instructive following your troubleshooting commentary though, thank you again.

 

So maybe it is just a good time for me to remember rule #35   "DON'T INSTALL UPDATES UNLESS YOU ARE AWAKE AND SOBER!" 🤪

 

[Andy14]

4 hours ago, Evi1Panda said:

Andy14's crash might have been similar in symptom but different in root cause — without tests, we’re just guessing.

I didn't experience any crashes. I simply switched to starting a new game because you can't cleanly update active scripts in a savegame—not even with Fallrim. Resaver shouldn't be used anymore anyway.

 

Some general advice on cleaning a savegame:

Since NAF, Naf Bridge, and Naficator are essentially frameworks for many other mods, you would have to deactivate all mods, start the game, confirm the error messages, and wait about 30 seconds. Then save and exit. Clean this save with Fallrim and save it. After that, load the cleaned save into Fallout and wait a while again, then save and exit. Only then can you reactivate all the mods.

However, as mentioned, since there are a lot of mods, this isn't recommended.

 

But for most standalone mods without large quests, this works.😉

[Andy14]

42 minutes ago, dosfox said:

So maybe it is just a good time for me to remember rule #35   "DON'T INSTALL UPDATES UNLESS YOU ARE AWAKE AND SOBER!" 🤪

 

 

Or make a save beforehand using the console: Save xxxx

This type of save won't be overwritten by the game, but autosaves, quicksaves, and manual saves will be.

[dosfox]

6 minutes ago, Andy14 said:

Resaver shouldn't be used anymore anyway.

 

ReSaver is more useful as an informative tool rather than editing tool. I check my save files regularly, and when unexplained unattached script instances appear, going back to a previous save keeps the game healthy. It needs some experience to identify the lazy base game unattached scripts that are best left alone. ReSaver is also useful to identify whether autosaves are valid and safe to load.

 

As an editing tool i found ReSaver most useful during early development of Autonomy where updating was janky and it was safer to purge scripts and forms before uninstalling the old mod and installing the new version.

 

I agree with you though, USE WITH CARE.

[Andy14]

12 minutes ago, dosfox said:

 

ReSaver is more useful as an informative tool rather than editing tool. I check my save files regularly, and when unexplained unattached script instances appear, going back to a previous save keeps the game healthy. It needs some experience to identify the lazy base game unattached scripts that are best left alone. ReSaver is also useful to identify whether autosaves are valid and safe to load.

 

As an editing tool i found ReSaver most useful during early development of Autonomy where updating was janky and it was safer to purge scripts and forms before uninstalling the old mod and installing the new version.

 

I agree with you though, USE WITH CARE.

https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/5031

 

[Evi1Panda]

53 minutes ago, Andy14 said:

Since NAF, Naf Bridge, and Naficator are essentially frameworks for many other mods

Partly true, but I tried to design it so that the base would be reinitialized during updates. But you know yourself that it's difficult to give guarantees...

 

About RESaver:

Actually, I also don't recommend continuing saves after the knife, but when you've played for 400 hours, you simply have no choice. But always better to load game at the moment where there wasn't that trouble what you've been trying to fix with RESaver.

Edited December 29, 2025 by Evi1Panda

[Evi1Panda]

1 hour ago, dosfox said:

Thank you Panda, you have wasted too much valuable time trying to identify my problem. At this stage it doesn't look like other users are having the same problem, but this has been the first pre-menu crash i've had since before v1.10.163 update. It has been very interesting and instructive following your troubleshooting commentary though, thank you again.

I'm almost certain this can be fixed. Something has definitely changed, you just need to figure out what. If you did what I asked you to do, make sure your AAF.ini isn't overloaded in Overwrite in MO2. The version with the ini file can be very realistic, it would take a long time to explain why, but it's true... And you told you transferred it.