NAF Bridge

[Here4SlootyMods]

@Evi1Panda

I'm using Vioxsis's Strap-On mod. It gives females (player or other) strap-ons so that Female/Female characters can use Male/Female animations.

 

It works with pure AAF (1.0.0 and 0.171 beta) but doesn't work with NAF and The Bridge. Could you take a look into this?

 

Vioxsis Strap On Mod:

 

[ptmc2112]

7 hours ago, Here4SlootyMods said:

@Evi1Panda

I'm using Vioxsis's Strap-On mod. It gives females (player or other) strap-ons so that Female/Female characters can use Male/Female animations.

 

It works with pure AAF (1.0.0 and 0.171 beta) but doesn't work with NAF and The Bridge. Could you take a look into this?

 

Vioxsis Strap On Mod:

 

that's probably because AAF 1.0 itself doesn't play well with NAF and the bridge, but that's just my guess.

[Saya Scarlett]

21 hours ago, TenFootMidget said:

It seems like Dago is gatekeeping and is scared someone will make his work obsolete. So rather than working /with/ other authors to improve the modding community, he's putting up roadblocks.

 

Factually incorrect, as the doors for collaboration were always open. It was Snap who decided to start copying and using Dago's own stuff to make their own framework.

Dago was never the one who started this.

But hey, what's new in Forums and people talking out their asses 😂

Edited August 3, 2024 by Saya Scarlett

[TheBottomhoodofSteel]

37 minutes ago, Saya Scarlett said:

 

Factually incorrect, as the doors for collaboration were always open. It was Snap who decided to start copying and using Dago's own stuff to make their own framework.

Dago was never the one who started this.

But hey, what's new in Forums and people talking out their asses 😂

I mean the EULA conversations alone were enough to consider that some people were ass talking. 

Especially considering that the EULA is a legal agreement between the Mod author AND Bethesda/Zenimax. NOT Mod Author, Bethesda/Zenimax and The community. The community has 0 place in this agreement and has no recourse to enforce this. 

Trying to use EULA to force access to other people's works is idiocy. You are not owed mods or access to someone's mods and you're not owed the right to use someone's work to ride on while treating them with the utmost in disrespect. 

Quote CK EULA: I even highlighted the important parts for those who can't read and assume Bethesda has ever laid claim of ownership to mod content. 
 

Quote

2.    GAME MODS; OWNERSHIP AND LICENSE TO ZENIMAX
A.    Ownership.  As between You and ZeniMax, You are the owner of Your Game Mods and all intellectual property rights therein, subject to the licenses You grant to ZeniMax in this Agreement.  You will not permit any third party to download, distribute or use Game Mods developed or created by You for any commercial purpose.
B.    Notice on Game Mods.  All Game Mods must indicate that ZeniMax is not the author of the Game Mods with additional language that "THIS MATERIAL IS NOT MADE, GUARANTEED OR SUPPORTED BY ZENIMAX OR ITS AFFILIATES."

 

Edited August 3, 2024 by TheBottomhoodofSteel

[antoniut]

In my opinion, I don't think it has "copied" anything (I think it doesn't need to) it has just made it compatible with the existing AAF system. Naf for Starfield is still going ahead and has nothing to do with AAF. And personally, I don't understand what all the fuss is about, if both The Bridge and Naf FO4, with their compatibility part, both still need AAF, so I don't see how AAF could lose users. Rather, I see it as a kind of boost.

 

Edited August 3, 2024 by antoniut

[kziitd]

1 hour ago, antoniut said:

In my opinion, I don't think it has "copied" anything (I think it doesn't need to) it has just made it compatible with the existing AAF system. Naf for Starfield is still going ahead and has nothing to do with AAF. And personally, I don't understand what all the fuss is about, if both The Bridge and Naf FO4, with their compatibility part, both still need AAF, so I don't see how AAF could lose users. Rather, I see it as a kind of boost.

 

If it doesn't copied anything of the base functionality of AAF, it doesn't need the xml files that animators make for AAF, it will have its own system and files to use the hkx files.

 

Just like SAM, its external files are more json and txt to control the functional requirements of its framework for poses/animation.
Just like I have made animations for both Sexlab and AAF, there is no essential difference in the work in 3dsmax. But when the hkx is ready, it is a world of difference to make the corresponding files for the animation framework itself so that the framework can handle these hkx correctly in the game.

                                                                                    ↑

If animators make files for Completely original/independent animation framework, then will not have the same content and functionality as the XML they make for AAF.

 

NAF doesn't need AAF, it becomes "another AAF" itself, and then it continues to need the original AAF's xml for functionality, alignment/furniture/position/etc.

 

This thread itself is addressing "When using "another AAF", the xml made for AAF once worked and now has problems".😭

Edited August 3, 2024 by kziitd

[antoniut]

Well, it would have been cool if in the future the community had something similar to ANAF or NAAF, but oh well.
War...war never changes... 🙄

[NetoshibaaGovno]

Oh, how good it would be if the fans of Dago and the elderly aaf did not get out of their paddock. they would sit there at, tell each other lies about "stealing code", spit in their impotent anger and would not interfere with the entire community of adult mods to develop.😌

however, evolution cannot be stopped, aaf will be replaced by a more advanced framework, or players f4 will simply stop playing. In any case, Dago will not be able to endlessly extort money from gullible users.

[vaultbait]

2 minutes ago, NetoshibaaGovno said:

Dago will not be able to endlessly extort money from gullible users

 

Just out of curiosity, where/when did that happen? I don't remember it, but my memory's not what it once was.

[kziitd]

18 minutes ago, NetoshibaaGovno said:

Oh, how good it would be if the fans of Dago and the elderly aaf did not get out of their paddock. they would sit there at, tell each other lies about "stealing code", spit in their impotent anger and would not interfere with the entire community of adult mods to develop.😌

however, evolution cannot be stopped, aaf will be replaced by a more advanced framework, or players f4 will simply stop playing. In any case, Dago will not be able to endlessly extort money from gullible users.

What ignorant words.
As an animator who knows more about different animation frameworks than the average user, I have already told you enough about the parts you can't see/understand.
Now I can say that you are not stupid, just bad.👎
The easiest thing is to immediately delete the XML files created for AAF that you copied to the NAF folder. If your NAF can still play the animation, I will declare NAF innocent.😏

[antoniut]

1 hour ago, kziitd said:

Just like SAM, its external files are more json and txt to control the functional requirements of its framework for poses/animation

 

19 minutes ago, kziitd said:

The easiest thing is to immediately delete the XML files created for AAF that you copied to the NAF folder. If your NAF can still play the animation, I will declare NAF innocent.

 

Now I understand, a little late, but...

[kziitd]

2 hours ago, antoniut said:

 

 

Now I understand, a little late, but...

Snap, the author of NAF, and Dago, the author of AAF.
They could have collaborated.😔
Snap has his/her own ideas and skills. At first, he/she was more focused on discovering/making problems that AAF had not discovered/solved.
He/she is very familiar with the code and program, so he/she can handle and improve things that ordinary users are not aware of.
Just like he/she was the first to publish the solution for "The timeline alignment of the character in the animation will be misaligned" made for AAF. This is based on his/her understanding and familiarity with the core content of AAF. With Dago's update to AAF too, "officially the same issue was resolved, and Snap's patch immediately became incompatible: both addressing the same thing means incompatibility.
Snap may have decided at that point that he/she would change from a collaborative/improvement position to what we see later when he/she releases his/her own NAF.
This is my personal guess, because I have been there with the whole thing/work, in the AAF discord server, Snap used to be a active person in the modder/author channel. But after the official update, when his/her patches had to be deleted, everything changed.
Snap decides took the working principle of AAf that he knew and the features that he/she might have suggested and collaborated on for AAF, and packaged them into NAF.
Dago was surprised when he first learned about this, because we all thought it was too sudden.
Snap didn't say anything, and went from a position of improving AAF to the current situation.
I feel sorry.
I hope everything is good for him/she in SF, and the NAF there is absolutely his/her original.
Because in SF, as I said, he/she uses his/her own files to serve his/her own SF animation framework.

[antoniut]

It is obvious that the human being is an emotional being...thanks for your clarification.

I choose peace...

[BAB PEEG]

inb4 lock because people can't keep from doing this again

[Here4SlootyMods]

17 hours ago, ptmc2112 said:

that's probably because AAF 1.0 itself doesn't play well with NAF and the bridge, but that's just my guess.

Yes I'm aware of that fact. I mentioned AAF 1.0 with respect to using purely AAF.

--------------------

As for this whole NAF vs AAF thing again, personally I propose we move that discussion to a different thread. Every time I see AAF vs NAF discussion on LoversLab, all I see in my head is the "Which side are you on? Bloods vs Crips" meme. Considering that that thread derailed horribly and was closed, it's starting to look like an inside job.

 

Now for a few individual responses (feel free to hate me personally):

--------------------

@evp

I mean this in the nicest way possible: please stay in your lane.

 

I am not a lawyer which is why you don't see me quoting Supreme Court decisions or whatever the European equivalent is. There is plenty I do know regarding certain laws and even then I always double check with a lawyer. I mentioned the Terms of Use regarding AAF 1.0 to explicate why I wasn't able to share it. Going off on a tangent about the Fallout 4 EULA was... weird to say the least.

 

Looking at your contributions in the original, official The Bridge thread (i.e.: the thread we get redirected to when clicking "Get Support" on the mod's file page), sometimes it looks like you're intentionally trying to get a thread closed.

 

@Saya Scarlett

First and foremost, thank you for your hard work on the AAF Fucking Manual.

 

Second, I'm pretty sure the person you quoted was referring to page 4's brief discussion of AAF 1.0's inability to work if it thinks NAF is installed, not on Snapdragon and dagobaking's feud.

 

I'm not trying to call you out or anything, but felt like a lot of others who don't frequently post on this thread joined in quite quickly after you did so I just wanted to clear the air.

 

@NetoshibaaGovno

9 hours ago, NetoshibaaGovno said:

In any case, Dago will not be able to endlessly extort money from gullible users.

AAF is free (with respect to money) to download. People who donate to dagobaking are donating voluntarily.

 

@kziitd

8 hours ago, kziitd said:

The easiest thing is to immediately delete the XML files created for AAF that you copied to the NAF folder. If your NAF can still play the animation, I will declare NAF innocent.😏

Ok, I'm going to try and be careful as to not incite any more of the AAF vs NAF crud that's already filled this thread (which like I said, I would prefer in a separate thread), but this really begs the question: How does this prove one party is innocent (or that the other is guilty)?

 

It seems to me like you're saying (feel free to correct me if I misunderstood you) because AAF and NAF read the same XML file that NAF is guilty (of something). How would you apply this to say, HTML? HTML was created by Tim Berners-Lee and before WorldWideWeb (his web browser) was discontinued, there were several other web browsers that were made and they could all read the same HTML files. Now we have a lot more with the most popular being Firefox, Chrome, Opera, Safari and (shudder) Edge (toilet emoji).

 

I don't have the original source code for NAF (the initial commit doesn't count obviously) and I wasn't here if AAF's source code was ever available. If the source code for both are the same or only slightly different (e.g.: variable name change), I would agree you with that NAF is guilty of something like copyright infringement, but being able to read the same file doesn't come off as a strong point to me: https://www.loverslab.com/topic/227779-the-bridge-aaf-to-naf/?do=findComment&comment=4329564.

Edited August 4, 2024 by Here4SlootyMods
"an inside job" edit.

[guliguliradish]

13 hours ago, kziitd said:

What ignorant words.
As an animator who knows more about different animation frameworks than the average user, I have already told you enough about the parts you can't see/understand.
Now I can say that you are not stupid, just bad.👎
The easiest thing is to immediately delete the XML files created for AAF that you copied to the NAF folder. If your NAF can still play the animation, I will declare NAF innocent.😏

Please stop.
Reasoning with the mentally disabled is futile, so the best way to do it is to watch them entertain themselves. Saying one more word is disrespectful to one's own intelligence. Wild dogs like to eat poop, so let them eat it. If you tell them that eating poop is a bad behavior, they may bite you.
One thing: I have never seen 'Bridge: NAF to AAF'. This already explains everything.

[kziitd]

8 hours ago, Here4SlootyMods said:

 

@kziitd

Ok, I'm going to try and be careful as to not incite any more of the AAF vs NAF crud that's already filled this thread (which like I said, I would prefer in a separate thread), but this really begs the question: How does this prove one party is innocent (or that the other is guilty)?

 

It seems to me like you're saying (feel free to correct me if I misunderstood you) because AAF and NAF read the same XML file that NAF is guilty (of something). How would you apply this to say, HTML? HTML was created by Tim Berners-Lee and before WorldWideWeb (his web browser) was discontinued, there were several other web browsers that were made and they could all read the same HTML files. Now we have a lot more with the most popular being Firefox, Chrome, Opera, Safari and (shudder) Edge (toilet emoji).

 

I don't have the original source code for NAF (the initial commit doesn't count obviously) and I wasn't here if AAF's source code was ever available. If the source code for both are the same or only slightly different (e.g.: variable name change), I would agree you with that NAF is guilty of something like copyright infringement, but being able to read the same file doesn't come off as a strong point to me: https://www.loverslab.com/topic/227779-the-bridge-aaf-to-naf/?do=findComment&comment=4329564.

SF's NAF is Snap's own custom external file to match his own animation framework in the game.
You should ask Snap why Fo4's NAF doesn't do the same.
When everyone can extract the parts that are beneficial to their opinions from all the technical content, sometimes we just need to ask the author why he did it that way.
I'm tired of it. I'm only here because of the users who "fired the first shot" at Dago in the last few pages of this technical thread. I just can't ignore seeing those who took the initiative to fire and then say they were attacked.
You won't see me anymore.

[Evi1Panda]

On 8/3/2024 at 8:49 AM, Here4SlootyMods said:

@Evi1Panda

I'm using Vioxsis's Strap-On mod. It gives females (player or other) strap-ons so that Female/Female characters can use Male/Female animations.

 

It works with pure AAF (1.0.0 and 0.171 beta) but doesn't work with NAF and The Bridge. Could you take a look into this?

 

Vioxsis Strap On Mod:

 

There is nothing to do for me. Naf can't cheating with actor's sex. So if you want scene you'll need to have corrected xml. Male to female xmls easy enough to correct for ff anims.

Edited August 5, 2024 by Evi1Panda

[Evi1Panda]

I've thought animators did their animations for users, not for aaf))) as well as modders with their mods. 

I'm working about new c++ furniture parser, and AAF will not be required at all soon. It parses 749 furniture items from xml less than for the one sec. It is fantastic. I never really wanted to cut aaf as a part of this ecosystem aaf+naf+bridge, but with this strange thing "secure lock", when one mod starts to define if user should or not use another mod... Haven't see any another options. And you, kziitd, what are you fighting for? And against what? Against users?) It is strange. I've thought all mods from modders for users, not mirrored otherway.

Edited August 5, 2024 by Evi1Panda

[guliguliradish]

23 minutes ago, Evi1Panda said:

I've thought animators did their animations for users, not for aaf))) as well as modders with their mods. 

I'm working about new c++ furniture parser, and AAF will not be required at all soon. It parses 749 furniture items from xml less than for the one sec. It is fantastic. I never really wanted to cut aaf as a part of this ecosystem aaf+naf+bridge, but with this strange thing "secure lock", when one mod starts to define if user should or not use another mod... Haven't see any another options. And you, kziitd, what are you fighting for? And against what? Against users?) It is strange. I've thought all mods from modders for users, not mirrored otherway.

Well said, I wish you success in developing your little gadget as soon as possible and no longer using aaf.
What qualifications do you have to evaluate other authors? What position are you in Beth, CEO?
Can you represent all users? Just relying on you? Who gave you the courage?
Do you mean by 'openness and freedom', to break into other people's homes and take their belongings as you please? Is this what you call 'openness and freedom'?
Do you think that with your intelligence, you can guide public opinion? Can't others see your trick of "changing concepts"?
Similarly, I don't think you are good at moral blackmail because your words are not hidden enough and your intention to smear others is too strong. In other words, you are just using others to hype yourself up. Unfortunately, your abilities are not enough, but your character is very poor.
So, speed up your little gadget, otherwise you will become a complete joke.

[guliguliradish]

By the way, please run for the position of Secretary General of the United Nations first, and then impose your "I think" on others. Don't say any funny things anymore, I can recommend some children's intellectual enlightenment books for you.

[guliguliradish]

Your claim of "for all users" is even a joke. You don't even respect the users, how can you say "for all users"? The author of the mod is the first user of this mod. Do you respect kziitd's wishes? As the first user, can't she choose her own users? She just wants to share her work with people who are kind and friendly, not with despicable people. Can't she? If you say no, fine, I admire your great mind. Now, as a user, I ask you to develop a mod called "evilpanda is an idiot". Will you develop it? If you don't develop it, your claim of "for all users" is just nonsense.

[baron75]

4 hours ago, guliguliradish said:

Well said, I wish you success in developing your little gadget as soon as possible and no longer using aaf.
What qualifications do you have to evaluate other authors? What position are you in Beth, CEO?
Can you represent all users? Just relying on you? Who gave you the courage?
Do you mean by 'openness and freedom', to break into other people's homes and take their belongings as you please? Is this what you call 'openness and freedom'?
Do you think that with your intelligence, you can guide public opinion? Can't others see your trick of "changing concepts"?
Similarly, I don't think you are good at moral blackmail because your words are not hidden enough and your intention to smear others is too strong. In other words, you are just using others to hype yourself up. Unfortunately, your abilities are not enough, but your character is very poor.
So, speed up your little gadget, otherwise you will become a complete joke.

 

I've rarely read anything so ridiculous from someone trying to sound intelligent.
I'm a user and I agree with him, history has shown us that when a mod starts to pose barriers to modding, the guides and users discard these mods.


I'm a gamer, not a fanboy, I don't care about the history between these 2 people, it's because of AAF's security that I ruined my savegame and for that reason, I'll always recommend the alternatives.

 

@Saya Scarlett

thank you so much for your incredible guide

 

Edited August 5, 2024 by baron75

[baron75]

3 hours ago, guliguliradish said:

Your claim of "for all users" is even a joke. You don't even respect the users, how can you say "for all users"? The author of the mod is the first user of this mod. Do you respect kziitd's wishes? As the first user, can't she choose her own users? She just wants to share her work with people who are kind and friendly, not with despicable people. Can't she? If you say no, fine, I admire your great mind. Now, as a user, I ask you to develop a mod called "evilpanda is an idiot". Will you develop it? If you don't develop it, your claim of "for all users" is just nonsense.

 

Now I hope you've finished demonstrating your ridiculousness and proving that you're a fanboy who's come to troll, it would be preferable for this topic to return to its support function.

AAF spoils our games enough, thank you

[guliguliradish]

20 minutes ago, baron75 said:

 

I've rarely read anything so ridiculous from someone trying to sound intelligent.
I'm a user and I agree with him, history has shown us that when a mod starts to pose barriers to modding, the guides and users discard these mods.


I'm a gamer, not a fanboy, I don't care about the history between these 2 people, it's because of AAF's security that I ruined my savegame and for that reason, I'll always recommend the alternatives.

 

@Saya Scarlett

thank you so much for your incredible guide

 

Historical evidence? You really made me laugh. Which company's history did you study? Go back and read more books.