NAF Bridge

[Evi1Panda]

6 minutes ago, dosfox said:

Does that mean it won't work with NAF/Bridge?

Not until the author corrects his mistakes. And apparently not going to do it. As you can see from last messages in topic. After all, the “slapdash” works. Most modders use the Dago ideology - not to adhere to standards, but to call everything "my vision".

 

I can't influence this, but you very well can. EVP fought him, but in the end was simply sent away.

Edited July 27, 2024 by Evi1Panda

[Evi1Panda]

To clarify the position about it:
- The author is great and does a great job.
- There is nothing to do here for NAF (actually, the commit about offset parsing for Snapdragon fully applies to this) or Bridge. For everything to work for NAF, the author just needs to make his xml without errors and bring it into compliance with the standard. Not to hide beside "my vision" wall.

 

p.s. I can tell - I updated author xml for myself, and it works fine. But I won't share this, because... I don’t want to see copyrights anuses break up once again. Don't send me ask about it in private. As I said I can help if it will be systemic work, not private.

Edited July 27, 2024 by Evi1Panda

[dosfox]

Thanks for all that. I can sympathise with your problems a little -  with trying to get all the audio files from the different animation packs organised. Every animation pack used a completely different set of audio  properties, file types, and presentation methods. Because AAF had no audio "standard" the only way to solve the mess was to organise it all myself and present it as an all-in-one "standard" collection of files. Thankfully nobody complained ...

[evp]

9 hours ago, dosfox said:

 

Does that mean it won't work with NAF/Bridge?

 

In the Indarello's patch, you only need to replace one file. As it says here:

These are mechanical typos inherited from the original files.

 

NAF doesn't find any other errors there. On the other hand in the Indarello's topic is spreading patch on patch )) 

 

There are few bugs in this patch for the patch too, but it doesn't work unless you have all the mods installed that it depends on. The bad thing is that the author himself doesn't know what he has in his dependencies. I barely managed to realize that one of the dependencies, is an early GreyUser mod, which is nowhere to download anymore. The author of the patch shared it. But this is clearly not enough, you can read our dialog.

 

 

In general summary - Indarello's patch works fine, if the absence of errors in the NAF log means just that. It gives no errors if you patch yourself or use an already patched file. Everything else in the Indarello's thread beyond the first page is completely unworkable until all dependencies are installed.

 

Edited July 28, 2024 by evp

[Evi1Panda]

I remember fiddling with this for quite some time. Some had to be cut, some had to be corrected. Absolutely, there are some things that need to be brought back to normal for this to work. However, the author is right - AAF “eats” anyway, so why should he do something about it. "My vision" wall as is.

As I remember almost 30% of this "patches" was need to be cuted. Because it links to things that doesn't exist. 

Edited July 28, 2024 by Evi1Panda

[Gamma_47]

19 hours ago, Evi1Panda said:

For those, who are using 161 beta (nexus version) - try this. (replace it file) I'm using 171, it is little different than 161. Callback your result, if it is fine - will add this to download.

@Gamma_47

Finally had the time to test this and it worked like a charm!

[Here4SlootyMods]

22 hours ago, Gamma_47 said:

Hell no, not after the crap the creator pulled. I'm on 161.1b.

Yeah, I feel you.

 

This bit concerns me the most:

15 hours ago, gegging said:

 

Fix : The problem was NAF.INI, buried in the overwrites F4SE/PLUGINS folder. Which didn't even cross my mind because I forgot I tried the mod.

Seems that AAF 1.0 is specifically checking for the existence of NAF and is intentionally not working if it (thinks it) finds it. Interesting times we live in.

 

 

 

 

 

On 7/24/2024 at 5:05 AM, Evi1Panda said:

2. Parse furniture offset

I've messaged Snapdragon regarding this. The idea behind Scenes and Animations are tripping me up and their love for the "auto" keyword is making it harder to follow (on top of some other things).

 

Here are some notable things, though:

1. The furniture offsets seem to be parsed okay (from the few xml files I tried with, although I might've gotten lucky with my choice of animators/xml writers).
2. In SceneBase.h, the two notable member functions are Update() and Begin(). Begin() has currentActor->SetPosition(location) where one can add the values from the furniture offsets to "location" but more important is Update() which has something similar.
3. There's a function called SetOffset() in that same file for Scenes and it looks like it should handle the offset calculations but I wasn't able to find a single instance of it actually being called/used.

"location" and "baseLocation" are member variables of two different classes (one of the classes is a parent to the other, and yeah, not making it easily identifiable as a member variable was a lot of fun).

 

Your other points are Papyrus stuff which I didn't mess with since I'm not all that familiar with it.

[Evi1Panda]

@Here4SlootyMods send this AAF ver. to me pls. Of course, I have ban in the Dago's server. Long before the bridge was published.

Edited July 28, 2024 by Evi1Panda

[Evi1Panda]

NAF parses offset in animationData.xml, but mostly xml's modders uses general offset in positionData. NAF doesn't parse it. I had a conversation with Snapdragon about it. He knows about this trouble. But it seems that F4 NAF is not his lovely child.

[Evi1Panda]

Looked at this 1-0 ver. It looks like an unfunny comedy. He add... booo... SECURITY BLOCK with hash check to his swf. I think it can be cut. But why?))) For Bridge work fine just now - it needs nothing more than 1.61 beta. As soon as Snapdragon will implement Find furniture - there won't be any needs for AAF at all. it can be any version AAF.esm. I don't know for whom Dago did this stupid thing.

Edited July 28, 2024 by Evi1Panda

[Here4SlootyMods]

20 hours ago, Evi1Panda said:

@Here4SlootyMods send this AAF ver. to me pls. Of course, I have ban in the Dago's server. Long before the bridge was published.

Actually, public distribution by non-authorized individuals is no longer allowed per AAF 1.0's Terms of Use (AAF_TermsOfUse.txt, 3rd paragraph, last sentence).

 

 

 

 

 

As for:

19 hours ago, Evi1Panda said:

NAF parses offset in animationData.xml, but mostly xml's modders uses general offset in positionData. NAF doesn't parse it. I had a conversation with Snapdragon about it. He knows about this trouble. But it seems that F4 NAF is not his lovely child.

Ah, I'll take a look at the positionData XMLs and try to figure out where one needs to add their data to the animationData.

 

In the mean time, do you have an example of a mod on LoversLab that did the XMLs properly and one where the XMLs need to be fixed so I can test?

Edited July 29, 2024 by Here4SlootyMods

[Evi1Panda]

4 hours ago, Here4SlootyMods said:

Actually, public distribution by non-authorized individuals is no longer allowed per AAF 1.0's Terms of Use (AAF_TermsOfUse.txt, 3rd paragraph, last sentence).

 

 

 

 

 

As for:

Ah, I'll take a look at the positionData XMLs and try to figure out where one needs to add their data to the animationData.

 

In the mean time, do you have an example of a mod on LoversLab that did the XMLs properly and one where the XMLs need to be fixed so I can test?

Almost any that remake ground poses to use it on beds (or to use bed poses for ground). See offset key in positionData. 

[Evi1Panda]

About bullshit AAF's authorizing - if have a time and interest, I'm pretty sure it won't be impossible mission to remove this secure block. Action Script decompiles very well. But why someone can be interested in this shit? He doesn’t want AAF to retain its functionality when the bridge and NAF are connected - that’s his business. In practice, this will not make anyone worse. 

About mods and its authors, I already said: there is no point in making mods for the AAF/NAF bridge. Mod authors should just make their own mods for NAF. Then the bridge will not be needed at all.

 

If mod doesn't start scenes using aaf_api bridge will ignore its processing, it will just add some tweaks :

- remove naf control block with own (will be removed after naf control block will be fixed)

- adds aaf busy/aaf locked keywords for compability with aaf mods.

 

Edited July 29, 2024 by Evi1Panda

[evp]

14 hours ago, Here4SlootyMods said:

Actually, public distribution by non-authorized individuals is no longer allowed per AAF 1.0's Terms of Use (AAF_TermsOfUse.txt, 3rd paragraph, last sentence).

 

I'm interested in the opinion of the owner of this mod, on such an unauthorized restriction of rights to distribute his property.

 

Fallout 4 EULA, Chapter THE SOFTWARE UTILITIES, IF ANY. Paragraph (a).

 

[ptmc2112]

44 minutes ago, evp said:

 

I'm interested in the opinion of the owner of this mod, on such an unauthorized restriction of rights to distribute his property.

 

Fallout 4 EULA, Chapter THE SOFTWARE UTILITIES, IF ANY. Paragraph (a).

 

That's literally talking about Bethesda and its parent company ZENIMAX (the LICENSOR, mentioned directly in the last sentence in the 1st paragraph under "LIMITED SOFTWARE WARRANTY AND LICENSE AGREEMENT") (just in case it's not clear to anyone reading that EULA)

Edited July 29, 2024 by ptmc2112

[evp]

11 hours ago, ptmc2112 said:

That's literally talking about Bethesda and its parent company ZENIMAX (the LICENSOR, mentioned directly in the last sentence in the 1st paragraph under "LIMITED SOFTWARE WARRANTY AND LICENSE AGREEMENT") (just in case it's not clear to anyone reading that EULA)

 

I prefer not to overburden this discussion. If you wish to continue our conversation, feel free to send a private message or start a relevant thread. I regret engaging in this fruitless debate. I will conclude my participation here with a response placed under a spoiler.

Spoiler

And what do you mean by that? Yes, by this end-user agreement, the licensor (Bethesda and its parent company ZENIMAX) asserts ownership of the copyrighted work you created. The owner imposes various restrictions, including rules on distribution, which authors are obliged to follow. 

Regarding the distribution of your copyrighted work under the licensor's ownership, they have forbidden commercial distribution but have specified that: (c) Customized Game Materials must be distributed solely for free. The owner has not expressed any other distribution limitations. Consequently, authors cannot violate the owner's rights by imposing additional restrictions on the distribution of their copyrighted works.

 

Edited July 30, 2024 by evp

[Evi1Panda]

There is a real situation. What's the point of shaking the air with words?

Anyway there is no any trouble. If mods authors will start to add NAF's for their mods any trouble will be nothing. If don't... Then we will have what we deserve.

[ptmc2112]

On 7/23/2024 at 11:55 AM, rubber_duck said:

 

After checking out the latest version (0.632) I'm pleased to see the option to hide/show HUD present in MCM.

 

It's not all good news, though - my HUD still 'resets' even though I've set the Show/Hide HUD option to hide. The hud functions properly, but it's that irritating crosshair dot that's driving me nuts. Seems like The Bridge doesn't like custom HUDs.

 

I'm willing to send a log, but literally everything's as clean as it can be - the HUD (crosshair) just misbehaves every time a NAF scene is played (by Bridge). I already explained it in my previous post.

 

Are you able to do something or should I just continue using v0.529 of the Bridge? It's the last version that doesn't have the HUD problems.

@Evi1Panda looking in the MCM of the bridge, this is the code for the hide hud:

            "id": "bhidehud:Settings",
            "text": "$BR_HIDEHUD",
            "help": "$BR_HIDEHUD_HELP",
            "type": "switcher",
            "valueOptions": {
                "min": 5,
                "max": 200,
                "step": 1.0,
                "sourceType": "ModSettingInt"
            }

 

Pretty sure a switcher type should not have a min, max, or step, and the type should probably be a Bool, not Int (no idea about the code that uses the source, if it uses the appropriate one) (there's others that are missing stuff as well, as an example. the slow script slider uses a bool for a sourceType, when it should need a min, max, step, and type as int or float (whichever is appropriate))

 

Hope it's not too much of a bother.

Edited July 30, 2024 by ptmc2112

[Evi1Panda]

,
		{
			"id": "bhidehud:Settings",
			"text": "$BR_HIDEHUD",
			"help": "$BR_HIDEHUD_HELP",
			"type": "switcher",
			"valueOptions": {
				"sourceType": "ModSettingBool"
			}
		}

Yeas, replace it with this, will update it, thanks.

[Evi1Panda]

Here is fixed slowdown and hidehud. Replace it in Data\MCM\Config\AAF or MO2\Mods\$(BridgeFolder)\MCM\Config\AAF

 

p.s. Feel free to post fixes here, I’m not really worried about the copyright on the bridge and I don’t have any profit from publishing this mod.

config.7z

Edited July 30, 2024 by Evi1Panda

[TornAct]

Any idea how to get the nexus version of AAF to work with Fallout 4 NG? It won't detect my script extender or LooksMenu. I've been at this all day.

 

I tried getting actual AAF working on the discord and the only reply was "AAF isn't set up right"

[TornAct]

7 minutes ago, lordbuttcheese said:

Hey, this is the wrong thread to get help for your problem, Take a look over at this thread.

The main issue you're probably running into is that the version on Nexus is not compatible with NG. And AAF doesn't release new versions to Nexus or LL directly anymore, you'll need to get it from the AAF discord, and the current version does support NG.

 

This thread is for NAF https://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/73889?tab=description. Which is NOT the same thing as AAF, but it currently doesn't support NG so you'll need to downgrade if you want to use it.

 

The "isnt setup right" response is annoying, but not exactly false as the version on Nexus 161.1 is older and, you need the new version for NG. Give the AAF fucking manual a read and that should help you.

 

I know the difference between AAF and NAF, which reminds me of FNIS vs Nemesis, though the actual mods remind me of OAR/DAR.

 

I gave up on AAF because it apparently doesn't work with a patch I have which makes X-Cell for Fallout 4 and Buffout 4 NG play nicely together. I'm using NAF since it actually works. (latest nexus build does, GitHub version doesn't) It has some bugs, but it works.

 

The problems I was having with the discord release were completely different. Most likely conflicts. I have 300+mods, so checking my mods would take forever. Granted, 2/3 of my mods are SS2 or related.

[baron75]

What a load of shit this AAF security function is!

I really hope that the authors will turn their backs on this unbalanced man

[urabi]

Cant we just abandon AAF once for all and get NAF featured here or so? At this point

Edited August 2, 2024 by urabi

[TenFootMidget]

Things will never get better if people don't make changes. 

We started with Fourplay, then AAF came. Maybe the next big thing is NAF, maybe it isn't. It looks promising, clearly it benefits some people. I haven't used it yet, but I may try it in the future.

 

I may not have the full picture, but after seeing the latest above, from what i've seen and read, It seems like Dago is gatekeeping and is scared someone will make his work obsolete. So rather than working /with/ other authors to improve the modding community, he's putting up roadblocks. Scummy move in my opinion, BUT with that being said, it is his work, and he can do with it what he pleases. He still has made the best mod for fallout 4 to date, truly, in my opinion. And he will forever be a pioneer in the community. Hopefully he has a change of heart, because in my opinion a mod, should be open for anybody to mess with and expand upon. Bethesda allows us to mod their game, why get cranky when your mod, gets modded? Doesn't make sense to me.

 

Keep up the great work on NAF. I am due for a FO4 reinstall, and may go that route when I do.

And Dago, keep up the great work on AAF. Whichever direction you go, it will always be good.

Both are great mods, and hopefully one day everyone can put on their big boy pants and realize we all come here for the same reason.