(WiP) A prostitution and player slavery mod 0.10.2c

[CGi]

Concerning Bad Ends, have you considered a MCM (or in game configuration spell) switch?

 

With the switch on, then Bad Ends will happen, the character dies, is enslaved / imprisoned forever, raped continuously by tentacles, or whatever cruel fate you've thought of.  The player witnesses their character's doom and then reloads an old save.

 

OR

 

With the switch off, then Bad Ends still happen, but they are either recoverable to some degree or there is an eventual rescue. The character goes unconscious and wakes up somewhere else (like Death Alternative), they are rescued by another who may or may not have a their best interests in mind, or be given a very tempting offer by the Divines or Daedra for help in escaping in exchange of service.  

 

There can be still consequences for choices, like loss of equipment, prison time, or  time in an impaired state (those damn cursed plugs from Devious Devices come to mind or even as far as Deviant Life outfitted with bondage gear) that prevents normal adventuring. It should be tough, but there is always the option of reloading an old save like before, but if the player endures then the story advances forward.

 

Perhaps the semi-Bad End can lead to future RP opportunities, like the rescuer being a love interest or future nemesis, or being hunted by whomever abducted her, powers both mundane or supernatural calling in debts, and so on.

 

As for the waitress job, it would depend on what the Inn's owner's motivations are. If they are only interested in pure profit, then too days of poor performance should lead to the character being fired, their debt to the Inn owner called in, and if they can't pay then it becomes a bounty and the guard is summoned to haul the pathetic wretch away.  Perhaps later, after some time has past, the character can get the job again with a successful speech check, convincing the Inn owner that will do better this time.

 

If the Inn owner has other interests beyond profit, then the poor performance might be in some ways expected and planned for.  For example, perhaps Hulda is a member of a secret slave owning society.  She sees the character and thinks "this girl would make a good slave once she gets the right mindset", so she hires the character, works her hard, encourages that whoring is an option, when the character messes up (which she will), Hulda punishes her as allowed by the contract, gradually nudging the character down the path of submissive sluthood.  Yeah, I can hope!

 

By the way, as a side note, have either of you thought of giving the Inn Keepers a break? They work 24/7 with no sleep!

Hero will put up a new poll after accidently deleting the old one.

Sorry guys, but shit happens.

 

We thought about an MCM solution, but this would require more work.

We got already ideas for a "simple" solution, but it'll be more work nontheless.

So if people vote for dead ends, dead ends it will be and if people vote for non-dead ends, then this it'll be.

The 3rd voting option may be "toggable", but first we need to make sure that people know what that would mean, especially in terms of development time.

 

And we prefer to not mess with the vanilla Ai from the inn keeper. May change at a later time, but as of now this would be pure cosmetical (yes, and immersive) and due to this not needed for the mod to function.

[souldead341]

So I ran into a few issues with the update.  I had everything working fine with the previous version, and there are a few things messing up in this install.

 

First the dance animations do no work, the dialog runs but my character just stands there and does nothing.

 

Second, the guests are always unhappy.  I delivered the orders correctly, and they registered as unhappy despite the dialogue saying they were satisfied with the service.

[deathrip3r]

So I ran into a few issues with the update.  I had everything working fine with the previous version, and there are a few things messing up in this install.

 

First the dance animations do no work, the dialog runs but my character just stands there and does nothing.

 

Second, the guests are always unhappy.  I delivered the orders correctly, and they registered as unhappy despite the dialogue saying they were satisfied with the service.

 

same thing here.. plus no sex animations of any kind

[Heromaster]

I repacked the version and uploaded it again. Curse the CK!

[germanicus]

Thank you Hero.

[Reigor]

It also might be a good idea to define "Bad End". Does it mean a game ending situation?  Or does the definition include non-game ending but detrimental situations?  

[aqqh]

Personally i dont like to be placed in a situation with no way out.

Way out may be hard but i like to know there has to be one and i just have to try harder to find it.

 

For simplier things like failing waitress job then after 3rd fail you could add dialogue that you actually beg Hulda to give you yet another chance, maybe allow her to humiliate you a little. This could be fun.

 

So i guess it was option "Non-dead end:" CGI described - i've never seen that poll

[tukugawa]

i was thinking as a "dead-end" for the waitress job would be something like Hulda saying that the only job you can be good at after failling so many times must be spreading your legs for money and even then you would need some "training" before being allowed to work for her again.

 

Another way to go about it is that every time you fail an order she consider's you made her lose money and if you make her lose more money than your hourly wage she asks you to pay her back or she puts a bounty on your head. And if you don't have the money she could ask you to whore yourself out as many times as it takes to wipe the debt away.

 

For a slave, who got free you could have your former master (or say one of his family members or friends if you killed him) hunt you down or have him pay bounty hunters, and once he caught you he would be giving you some extra "attention".

 

As for a mistress i feel like it should be much harder to gain back your status as it might as well be considered a privilege compared to the other 2 situations. Having to do a few very dangerous or humiliating quests would be one way i can see it going.

 

All in all i'd rather you don't go for a definite failure state but seeing as it would take quite a lot developpement time going for a quick dead end at first and maybe coming back those places once the bulk of the story is out of the way and you feel like revisiting/expanding over them. Like someone in the previous comments said we see too many mods with an unfinished story which is kinda sad as we don't get to see the entirety of their modder's vision.

[Vithiss]

My half-penny's worth:

 

Dead Ends mostly mean, to me, reloading from a more varied catalog of save-games to "fix" undesirable/unforeseen outcomes. Not every time, naturally, but at least sometimes. Generally speaking, I'd rather be able to do this by in-game means

 

Example 1 - I am playing/role-playing a character with a very well defined personality who just -is- going to make certain kinds of choices, consequences be hanged. For this, I would be much less likely to re-load, and much more likely to just accept the consequences whatever they may be, even story-ending ones. Even if there are means, ingame, for changing things, such characters would be unlikely to use them.

 

Example 2 - I am playing a character who is much more flexible in response to changing circumstances (for instance, learning that they are "claimed" by Sanguine, via SD+, can lead some characters to re-evaluate their positions radically at times) and I would -greatly- prefer to be able to do things in game to "fix" an undesirable or unforeseen outcome than simply re-load. In my view this is also accepting consequences, especially if extra effort is required, in game, to get the chance of a do-over.

 

Example 3 - Maybe this is just me, but every single rpg video game I have ever played has had dialog options that are either a little unclear (is that sarcasm or earnestness? for example), and situations where none of the options are really what the character would actually choose so the player has to try to get as close as possible to their character's intent.... this doesn't always work out so well. Naturally, there can only be so many dialog options, and we have all had the rl experience of being misunderstood in conversation with less than ideal consequences, so, again, an ingame way of 'correcting' things seems preferable to me.

 

I think that this means that I am voting for #2 A game's a game.

And, thanks to you both for your work on this.

[Heromaster]

I will add the poll again after some time. First I need to see if the fixed version is working now. Else chances are the poll will be dropped again .

 

i was sure that people would vote for dead ends depending on the case with possibilities to return under special circumstances.
if we go for "mess up x times and you're fired" (which is already planed for the waitress part, no matter if it has a dead end or not), alot more work will be needed to reflect every case and in the long run a player might tend to curse her-/himself for the decission she/he made.

In my opinion it is the other way round. It is more work to make it plausible that the player can go to the NPC again and continue where you ended.

 

 

 

Dead ends are for role players, so in case of the mistress/slave part the player would have to beg to be able return to her/his role after ending this kind of relationship. So if a player is role playing with consequences, she/he could just simply ignore that dialoge option, while other players, that want to experiment f.e., still know that they can go back if they are willing to put some work into it.

And this will not work. As you said most ppl are curious and want to test the boundaries of the character. And they might will be disappointed if they see a choice again and again to repeat this part. I know I would be. Ignoring is not an option, imho. If you give ppl options, they will try them out. Just out of curiosity.

 

 

 

Btw: There will not be such a thing as an definitive enslavement w/o any way to get out of it, as this would destroy the game as it is. The player will always be able to get free and return to her/his regular Skyrim life.

Right, because that would force players to reload from a previous savegame because a permanent enslavement would take alot of time to make it interesting and even then chances are high it turns out to be way to boring.

 

This might be a long post...I will try to keep it short. They are base on things that I have see, heard, and read along with some personal observations.

 

There is no easy answer to this question. This question is one that even big budget games, especially RPGs struggle with. Players will tend to say they want their actions and decisions to matters and to have consequences. But within them, perhaps unconsciously, they want to explore everything, they want everything, or they want the "best" outcome rather it is one that fits their personal taste or the outcome with the biggest reward.

 

We can use fancy terms like replay value, different experience every time, but let's be honest no designer will have the time/resources to make a truly unique experience THAT many times there will be overlaps. I can side with Stormcloak or the Imperial when I escape the prison, but is it really THAT unique? (not that it is a bad design choice, more on that later) so it becomes a question of is it wasting the designer's effort or even their potential to strive to make different branches truly unique when they are face with diminishing return.

Now some players might really like to replay their game/mod many times to see everything, to experience everything, and they will happily boast "It is so good, I replay it X times to see everything!" But if the designer going in knowing that the player wants to experience everything then why bother with branches why not just focus on the best way to deliver everything the game/mod has to offer? The answer, because as we can see from the poll, players "want" their decision to matters   and KNOWING the fact that choices exists and matters IS part of the experience.

 

Different games tackle this problem differently in the past. There can be minor decisions that players make that does not ultimately affect the story, like the Stormcloak/Imperial prison break example. There can also be decision that is more favorable one way than another (although for a sex related mod this could be potentially troublesome as well). Another one is give player a "reward" for picking one or another, or at times one OVER another. For major decision that really matters and might be irrecoverable try to value and balance how long it takes to design/work on it, and is it easy for the player to experience it then leave and resume.

 

The waitress job as an example, I don't think should be dead end, since so far it is a critical path of the mod, you don't want to lock someone out so early. In general I don't think progression in the mod should be lock out at all. However if there are say some "bad end" scenario involve I would say keep the sequence within reasonable length, so the player can experience it then reload back to last save and learn not to pick that decision or be content that they have discovered a feature

 

Everything which effects the playability of the main quests will have no dead ends or offer alternatives to continue them, ie you mess up Quest A then Quest B will be offered to you to continue progressing the main quest.

 

Concerning Bad Ends, have you considered a MCM (or in game configuration spell) switch?

 

With the switch on, then Bad Ends will happen, the character dies, is enslaved / imprisoned forever, raped continuously by tentacles, or whatever cruel fate you've thought of.  The player witnesses their character's doom and then reloads an old save.

 

OR

 

With the switch off, then Bad Ends still happen, but they are either recoverable to some degree or there is an eventual rescue. The character goes unconscious and wakes up somewhere else (like Death Alternative), they are rescued by another who may or may not have a their best interests in mind, or be given a very tempting offer by the Divines or Daedra for help in escaping in exchange of service.  

 

There can be still consequences for choices, like loss of equipment, prison time, or  time in an impaired state (those damn cursed plugs from Devious Devices come to mind or even as far as Deviant Life outfitted with bondage gear) that prevents normal adventuring. It should be tough, but there is always the option of reloading an old save like before, but if the player endures then the story advances forward.

 

Perhaps the semi-Bad End can lead to future RP opportunities, like the rescuer being a love interest or future nemesis, or being hunted by whomever abducted her, powers both mundane or supernatural calling in debts, and so on.

 

As for the waitress job, it would depend on what the Inn's owner's motivations are. If they are only interested in pure profit, then too days of poor performance should lead to the character being fired, their debt to the Inn owner called in, and if they can't pay then it becomes a bounty and the guard is summoned to haul the pathetic wretch away.  Perhaps later, after some time has past, the character can get the job again with a successful speech check, convincing the Inn owner that will do better this time.

 

If the Inn owner has other interests beyond profit, then the poor performance might be in some ways expected and planned for.  For example, perhaps Hulda is a member of a secret slave owning society.  She sees the character and thinks "this girl would make a good slave once she gets the right mindset", so she hires the character, works her hard, encourages that whoring is an option, when the character messes up (which she will), Hulda punishes her as allowed by the contract, gradually nudging the character down the path of submissive sluthood.  Yeah, I can hope!

 

By the way, as a side note, have either of you thought of giving the Inn Keepers a break? They work 24/7 with no sleep!

 

I already have something like this planned and it is partially implemented. It is the difficulty of the mod. On easy and medium before you finally mess up with a quest/NPC/whatever the game will be saved and thus offering you a save point to return. On the hard difficulty it will not be saved. I already had in mind to give the player choices depending on their playstyle.

 

Currently there are no plans to touch the vanilla packages of the innkeepers. It would be easy to give them sleep packages but that would mean, that we would need to replace them with other NPC's who are in place for the innkeeper.

 

Personally i dont like to be placed in a situation with no way out.

Way out may be hard but i like to know there has to be one and i just have to try harder to find it.

 

For simplier things like failing waitress job then after 3rd fail you could add dialogue that you actually beg Hulda to give you yet another chance, maybe allow her to humiliate you a little. This could be fun.

 

So i guess it was option "Non-dead end:" CGI described - i've never seen that poll

 

I'm not a big fan of letting the player be punished through sex because well ... to be honest that would not be a punishment ^^

 

i was thinking as a "dead-end" for the waitress job would be something like Hulda saying that the only job you can be good at after failling so many times must be spreading your legs for money and even then you would need some "training" before being allowed to work for her again.

 

Another way to go about it is that every time you fail an order she consider's you made her lose money and if you make her lose more money than your hourly wage she asks you to pay her back or she puts a bounty on your head. And if you don't have the money she could ask you to whore yourself out as many times as it takes to wipe the debt away.

 

For a slave, who got free you could have your former master (or say one of his family members or friends if you killed him) hunt you down or have him pay bounty hunters, and once he caught you he would be giving you some extra "attention".

 

As for a mistress i feel like it should be much harder to gain back your status as it might as well be considered a privilege compared to the other 2 situations. Having to do a few very dangerous or humiliating quests would be one way i can see it going.

 

All in all i'd rather you don't go for a definite failure state but seeing as it would take quite a lot developpement time going for a quick dead end at first and maybe coming back those places once the bulk of the story is out of the way and you feel like revisiting/expanding over them. Like someone in the previous comments said we see too many mods with an unfinished story which is kinda sad as we don't get to see the entirety of their modder's vision.

 

No, just no. We already have concrete plans with Hulda. And spreading your legs for her as a punishment will never be an option. You already have to pay if you messed up the orders and to compensate loss. She will put a bounty on you if you try to steal (Currently, probably subject to change).

 

This kind of slavery is currently not a development goal.
 

[germanicus]

I came to the same problem as in previous version. After having sex with one of two girls that Hulda brought, nothing else happen. Before the sex with two of them, Hulda said that she expect the report from them and invited my PC as well. So, having only one sex scene with one of the girls, unsuccessfully trying to see what Hulda will say, the game "came to it's end".

[Heromaster]

Ehm yeah, this is currently the end. I just fixed the bug from the previous version, when you work as a waitress. So it still is the same mod as before with one bug less.

[Princessity]

I think the next time the poll is up the question and answers should be phrased and described a little better ^^ The way the question was asked was so general and it made me think it refers to all quests ever: main and radiant and side so I didn't know how to vote. In my head something like the waitress job is a totally different thing than slavery side quest or a main quest.

 

For generic quests like waitress or some fetch random stuff and bring it to a random person radiant i would want to be able to return to them whenever I like because that's what generic quests are for.

 

Buuuuut if a regular quest offers me branching choices I like to know that my decisions matter and will have consequences. I love the way New Vegas is set up. Player has reputations with different factions. You can try to play both sides of the fence for some time to decided who you like more (like do a few quests for one faction and then a few for the opposing faction) but once you pick a side and start doing high tier quests for faction A faction B will probably hate you and start attacking you on sight so their high tier quests will close off to you. there's probably some specific order and optimal way of doing things so you can experience most of New Vegas in one playthrough but I don't think there's any point to it ^^ A roleplayer will probably just play the way that feels appropriate to the character and a gameplayer can reload and make a different choice if she or he doesn't like the outcome but anyways if a quest gives player an important choice player will want that choice to have a permanent effect on the gameworld.

 

So i kinda agree with Hero here ^^

 

Actually I just remembered there's a perfect example of what I'm talking abotu already in vanilla skyrim!

 

In the civil war quesline you have 2 points where you can choose your allegiance (tutorial doesn't count because it has no effect on the civil war progress) First is when you talk to Tullius or Ulfric about joining. They give you a quest to do but even after you finish it this choice isn't binding yet. the real choice with no way back comes in the second quest (retrieving Crownofthingystuffs)

 

Like forexamplish you decided to join Stormcloaks because they made a friendlier impression on you in Helgen so you go to Ulfric and join them. But as you're doing the first quest and see the things Stormcloaks do and listen to what people say about them you decide that maybe joining violent Nord fascists wasn't what you wanted so in the second quest you end up with Crownofthingystuffs in your hands. At that point you know both factions want it and whoever gets it will get a huge advantage in the war. If you give it to Ulfric you make your allegiance clear but you could give it to Tullius instead and he'll welcome you with open arms but at that point you're a turncloak (xaghasdyugfytd! I mean turncoat) and there's no chance Stormcloaks will ever let you back in. From that point the rest of the questline is set in stone and the other branch is closed off to you forever.

 

In the context of APPS it could look like this: like you enter a bdsm relationship as a slave but if you decide you don't like it you may decide to switch. but after you do that you can't switch back. Maybe no matter how you try after you forged a dominant personality you can't force yourself to go back or maybe your former master was conditioned so well you couldn't outsubmissive him even if you wanted to. Once the second choice is made it's final.

 

If at any point you or your partner decides to end the relationship there could be a way to try it again. But if it ends again that probably means it's never going to work.

 

I think it could be a nice compromise. You can choose an option and get a "trial version" of what the quest is going to look like if you stick with it and at the end of that "trial" you can decide if you want to play the rest of the quest that way or continue it as if you'd chosen the other option.

 

Obviously that means quests have to be written in a way that makes a switch like that plausible but I think it's still less work than making the ability to change your mind infinite times plausible ^^

[Lucky7]

Question, is this still a WIP or is it complete? Because this thread has had that title for a long time.

[Guest MrLange]

@Lucky7
Yes, this mod is still a WIP. And even though the title may not change (actually it has changed), Hero and CGi are still working on the mod.
But you could have come to the same conclusion, if you would have read the last pages of this thread

[streetmaniac]

i seem to have a bit of a problem, when the two girls upstairs "test" me, after asking me if i want to lick or have them use the "backdoor" I only get the option to lick (not sure if thats how its intended), then the animation starts nicely but after licking the girl, the animation stops, she stands up and nothing happens after. Quest doesnt continue, no next animation (anal im guessing), I can talk to both of them but they have no dialog

[Guest MrLange]

@pizzaguy
That's where the mod ends (at the moment). For now you just have this one option when talking with the girls and after the first animation is done, the mod ends. No more dialogs, neither with the girls nor with Hulda.
It's not a problem on your site, but it's a WIP after all so you have to expect such an (unsatisfying) open end

[streetmaniac]

@pizzaguy

That's where the mod ends (at the moment). For now you just have this one option when talking with the girls and after the first animation is done, the mod ends. No more dialogs, neither with the girls nor with Hulda.

It's not a problem on your site, but it's a WIP after all so you have to expect such an (unsatisfying) open end

 

oooh alright

[theHatzel]

I'm using this mod for a week and did'nt see anything happen... The instrunctions aren't very clear, how can I start the quest?

[Guest MrLange]

@Raziel

I've just read the OP once again and everything you need to know is stated there.

But for you I'll sum it up once more:

Install the mod like you would install any other mod, run FNIS and activate the esp. Start the game, load a savegame. Go to Whiterun, enter the Bannered Mare and wait for the announcement: MCM registered 1 new menu. Talk with Hulda about job opportunities and there you go!

Read - Think - Post

[theHatzel]

Thank you!!

[tukugawa]

No, just no. We already have concrete plans with Hulda. And spreading your legs for her as a punishment will never be an option. You already have to pay if you messed up the orders and to compensate loss. She will put a bounty on you if you try to steal (Currently, probably subject to change).

 

This kind of slavery is currently not a development goal.

 

 

Those were just a few ideas tossed around regarding dead ends. Oh well this just makes me more curious about what you have in store for the pc and how Hulda will take part in it.

 

[CGi]

i think i'll not spoil something if i say that Hulda will play a major role in this mod, hence why it starts in and surrounds the bannered mare. ^^

 

A little question to our players that's kinda important for the part of the story that i'll work on next:
is anyone of you using sneak tools or a similar mod?

if yes: Why excatly and what of it's extended funtionality comes in handy most of the time for you?

if not: Why?

[Heromaster]

Short update on development status: After one and a half month work, I'm close to release the first part of the APPS framework. It will contain the announced Relationship Framework which allows us and other modders to build PC <--> NPC relationships. If you want to learn more about it, read my blog post.

 

At the same time we currently developing a dominant follower which will be released some time after the Relationship Framework. The follower mod will also be a seperate mod and mainly will be used to preview the slavery part of APPS. You will be able to play around that mod and test the features. If you people think it works and is a good addition the follower will be included in APPS itself at a later point (Nicely wrapped with her own backstory and other things).

[Trinar]

A little question to our players that's kinda important for the part of the story that i'll work on next:

is anyone of you using sneak tools or a similar mod?

if yes: Why excatly and what of it's extended funtionality comes in handy most of the time for you?

if not: Why?

 

No, never even bothered to look for such, since sneaking in Skyrim is quite easy anyway.