BOSS... Use it!! *Rant*

[dinomagick]

*rant on*

I've played Fallout 3, Fallout New Vegas and Skyrim.... 

Each of them Heavily Modded......   

Before BOSS, I'd spend hours trying to figure out which mod was causing me to CTD, and I was afraid of adding too many mods...
 

 

Then, someone pointed me to BOSS...   (Which can be found here: -> HERE <-  D O W N L O A D    I T !!!!!)

 

 

Now, I'm sure we're going to see people digging in their heels, refusing to listen to reason and bitch at me and call me names for telling them something they should have already been doing....
 

But... No.. They will scream that they don't want to use BOSS.... And then they'll constantly post that their game constantly CTD's.... Etc..

 

I am offering a suggestion that before you come here or Nexus and complain about CTD's, you get BOSS and run it...

If you still are getting a lot of CTD's and have modified Animations in any of your added mods, be sure to run and re-run FNIS.  (If you have new animations, you know to use FNIS anyway.)

 

Why this rant?   Why am I being such a B**CH?

 

I was reading some posts both here and on Nexus from people who just didn't want to use BOSS and yet still complained about crashes... Even after others (like me) suggested to use BOSS, they dug in their heels... "... I don't want tooo.."  etc..etc..etc.. 

whiney little twats that need a good kick in the box...

 

Or balls...  but if they had balls, they wouldn't be whining and crying about frequent CTD's  because they'd be using BOSS anyways...

 

Okay.. so i may not have the physical balls either, but... give me a break guys/gals.  

USE BOSS!!!  Save your "balls" or whatever you got down there from me having to kick you there....  It is a simple, easy to use tool that will save you hours and hours of figuring out what MOD order you should have and letting you PLAY....

 

 

*rant off*

 

[dTd]

This made me laugh.  I don't use Boss, nor do I whine, nor do I have or ever have ctd. Rather than rely on some third party app to do things for you, how about learning your mods, what they do and how they interact. After doing this, you'll be able to write your own load order which is really simple and rather intuitive anyway. Have a nice day

[bradleyh]

BOSS is a very useful tool when running many different Mods in Bethesda released Games, and should really be used to sort the Mods it does recognise. It is not perfect, but it does a better job for a Novice Mod User than just Geussing and Assuming.

[Hayleyrose2323]

Have to agree with dTd and the OP. Most of the time for me, i know what is causing it, I pay attention to my mods, i know what they do, so for me, BOSS isnt usually needed. And to be quite honest BOSS isn't always helpful. Skyrim is a great example. If you have a mod crashing your game and you load boss up its not always going to show you a error. Which is why I learned to do things myself and usually have no trouble at all.

[winny257]

I will not berate you, and I will not insult you!

I also do not use a BOSS, I use absolutely no tools "such as NMM or the same." in my game there are 256 ESP \ ESM files is 59 GB in size and it runs flawlessly.

 

german \ deutsch !

 

ich werde dich nicht beschimpfen und ich werde dich auch nicht beleidigen !

 

ich verwende ebenfalls kein BOSS , ich verwende überhaupt keine hilfsmittel " wie NMM oder der gleichen" . in meinem spiel befinden sich 256 ESP\ESM dateien es ist 59 GB groß und es läuft einwandfrei .

[cornbreadtm]

I know how to order my mods without BOSS but I use it anyway, because I'm not so arrogant as to not want a second opinion.

 

That being said people tend to act like because they use BOSS that their load order is perfect. BOSS orders mods according to a master list of mods, it doesn't take into consideration what mods you actually have in your load order per-say. So if you have 2 conflicting mods that need to be ordered in a specific manner it will order them without taking that into consideration since it orders them in a location that is best for the mod by itself.

 

BOSS isn't an "I win button" if you don't know what you're doing and you use BOSS... you still don't know what you're doing. Where BOSS ends, Tes5Edit begins.

[Guest]

Totally agree with OP and all other posters!

I use BOSS, I make liberal use of Boss' User Rules function, I sort BOSS according to MY needs, not just what BOSS says.  Handy for me to do it this way rather than all manually.

I also use TES5Edit to check for potential CTD's and missed requirements, clean files with it etc. I read every mods' description, installation, and compatibility info.

I also use SMCO to optimize textures... why do texture artists always think every texture must be at least 4K DXT5 with blank Alpha's? oops off topic.

I run FNIS for users every single time I add or remove any mod, even if I don't think the mod has anything to do with animations.

I open mods in the CK to see what they do, and study the file structures in the game data folder, so I can better understand what is going on.

And I still need help from you guys from time to time.

 

Please People, Use the Tools!

 

 

[Guest carywinton]

I will not berate you, and I will not insult you!

 

I also do not use a BOSS, I use absolutely no tools "such as NMM or the same." in my game there are 256 ESP \ ESM files is 59 GB in size and it runs flawlessly.

 

german \ deutsch !

 

ich werde dich nicht beschimpfen und ich werde dich auch nicht beleidigen !

 

ich verwende ebenfalls kein BOSS , ich verwende überhaupt keine hilfsmittel " wie NMM oder der gleichen" . in meinem spiel befinden sich 256 ESP\ESM dateien es ist 59 GB groß und es läuft einwandfrei .

Now I must know what process you go through to make that many mods work with no "Helpful" tools to isolate the errors. Sure I have used Boss, F*Edit, TesEdit, etc and CTDs just seem to plague me no matter what.

[Guest carywinton]

I tried to install BOSS and found the interface clumsy, twitchy and confusing. I run about 30 mods and so far Wrye and manual ordering is working for me, despite being programmed in the crappy Python language. Fortunately there's a bundled installation or I wouldn't have used it. I loathe third party command interpreters.

 

Ps. Nobody codes in C++ anymore? Python, Java, Net Framework and the others are garbage.

Actually allot of people still use C++ and it is still the fundamental language of scripting, which is also heavily used.

[d1sl3xicpanda]

I've used boss forever now *-* makes life easy.. Those who can function without it are fine, but I always use it personally <3

[Guest corespore]

BOSS is a tool and like any tool one needs to take the time to learn how to use it as well as it's limitations. I have the program and at first i relied heavily on it to help me with load order but as I've gained experience i find myself using it little to none these days. 

I do agree with your point though, if you want to mod skyrim you NEED to take the time to learn how to use the programs the modding community has provided for us to utilize. Programs such as BOSS, TES5 edit, FNIS, SKSE, and SKYUI simply aren't optional if you plan on modding skyrim to any extent. All these programs come with very detailed instructions on how to use them as well as the massive library of videos on youtube that explain step by step. 

BOSS isn't a fix-all for load order but it does help a great deal and hopefully people will learn to trust that when others advise them to use the program they are honestly trying to help them have a better gaming experience. 

[Hayleyrose2323]

 

I will not berate you, and I will not insult you!

 

I also do not use a BOSS, I use absolutely no tools "such as NMM or the same." in my game there are 256 ESP \ ESM files is 59 GB in size and it runs flawlessly.

 

german \ deutsch !

 

ich werde dich nicht beschimpfen und ich werde dich auch nicht beleidigen !

 

ich verwende ebenfalls kein BOSS , ich verwende überhaupt keine hilfsmittel " wie NMM oder der gleichen" . in meinem spiel befinden sich 256 ESP\ESM dateien es ist 59 GB groß und es läuft einwandfrei .

Now I must know what process you go through to make that many mods work with no "Helpful" tools to isolate the errors. Sure I have used Boss, F*Edit, TesEdit, etc and CTDs just seem to plague me no matter what.

 

 

I have over 100 mods and is very stable. Ive only had a slight few Crashes do to some mods which I knew right off the bat what they were. I have BOSS, but dont usually end up using it, usually tells me what I already know to be honest. I can usually pinpoint what mod is doing what and because of that can normally figure out whats causing the issues. Ive actually been like that for most of my time modding skyrim, only time I was having major issues to the point of using BOSS was finding out about the 3GB limitation for skyrim. BOSS usually just lets me know of the slight little things it thinks are problems but are just really the edits of a mod that are there by design.

 

So of course im sure we are gonna need BOSS once in a while, but downloading a mod, reading the readme, knowing what it does and how it does it usually helps with pinpointing problems. ALSO a helpful hint make sure you try to remember what a ESP file is, some are like grass.esp or something but it could add grass to just one area and is causing a problem so if your using anymore grass mods you dont know which are which. So you gotta keep track of them even if you have a lot or at least thats what i do

 

[Jexsam]

BOSS is a great tool but the best results come from hand-tweaking.

 

Everyone should use it IMO, as it is a fine suggestion and is more often than not sufficient for less savvy users (such as myself), while also serving as a guideline for people who know what they're doing and don't mind getting their hands dirty messing with it for optimum results.

[PsychoMachina]

BOSS allows you to create User Rules so that certain mods that work in a particular order do not become undone everytime you run BOSS.

[...0...]

Boss is helpfull but you still need to pay attention and manually replace mods lower in laod order.

 

And use boss alone is also not very handy you use it also with testedit make sure you clean your mods.

 

Those who claim never crashing no matter how hard you claim this statement i just dont believe you hehe

[ballsy]

 If you have a mod crashing your game and you load boss up its not always going to show you a error. Which is why I learned to do things myself and usually have no trouble at all.

So what does that have to do with BOSS? Does your ability to troubleshoot improve with this self-imposed restriction of not using BOSS at all? Seriously, this ain't Hunter x Hunter.

 

I tried to install BOSS and found the interface clumsy, twitchy and confusing. I run about 30 mods 

Running an automated installer and pressing that BOSS button on Wrye Bash can be confusing. 

30 mods. 'Nuff said. 

 

 

 

Here's what I assume when I hear someone say that they don't use BOSS:

1. Their Bethesda .esms haven't been cleaned
2. Their Plugins haven't been cleaned
3. They have no idea what the term cleaning means 
4. They have mods lurking in their load order containing unexpected records that should be outright removed
5. They don't make patches in TES5Edit
6. They have no idea what TES5Edit is

BOSS informs you of 1, 2, 4, and teaches you 3 and 6. 

 

If someone asks for help under technical support and shows no sign of using BOSS based on their load order, I'd be giving a thousandth of a shit I'd usually give. 

[Hayleyrose2323]

 

 If you have a mod crashing your game and you load boss up its not always going to show you a error. Which is why I learned to do things myself and usually have no trouble at all.

So what does that have to do with BOSS? Does your ability to troubleshoot improve with this self-imposed restriction of not using BOSS at all? Seriously, this ain't Hunter x Hunter.

 

??? It has to do with BOSS because Like i just said, If you load it up its not always going to show you whats wrong. Sometimes it takes other actions than BOSS to figure out a issue. I Didnt say I never use it, I said sometimes it just doesn't always help and people should know that when downloading it when people are telling them they should use it. Sometimes it takes better understanding of the mod and what it does and how it works. Simple as that.

[GrimReaper]

BOSS is a tool, nothing more. Refusing to use BOSS is like refusing to use a hammer and wanting to use your bare hands to punch in nails.

[RitualClarity]

BOSS is a tool, nothing more. Refusing to use BOSS is like refusing to use a hammer and wanting to use your bare hands to punch in nails.

 

Yep.

 

BOSS is a tool nothing more. Use it as needed. Same as FNVedit, NMM, Wyre Bash etc. It is important to understand what the tool does and its limits.

 

If you "whine" about having load order issues and ask for help:

FOLLOW THE INSTRUCTIONS GIVEN TO HELP RESOLVE THE ISSUE(S).

 

If you don't want to follow suggestions from the post after asking for help.. stop asking for help and wasting our time. There are plenty of other individuals that are willing to follow the instructions to help them resolve their issues. Let us help them instead.

 

 

 

[ballsy]

 

 

 If you have a mod crashing your game and you load boss up its not always going to show you a error. Which is why I learned to do things myself and usually have no trouble at all.

So what does that have to do with BOSS? Does your ability to troubleshoot improve with this self-imposed restriction of not using BOSS at all? Seriously, this ain't Hunter x Hunter.

 

??? It has to do with BOSS because Like i just said, If you load it up its not always going to show you whats wrong. Sometimes it takes other actions than BOSS to figure out a issue. I Didnt say I never use it, I said sometimes it just doesn't always help and people should know that when downloading it when people are telling them they should use it. Sometimes it takes better understanding of the mod and what it does and how it works. Simple as that.

Alright. That's my bad for misinterpreting, but you could have phrased it like "why I learned to do more myself", "why I do more than just BOSS" or whatever. The use of  "do things myself" and the tone of your previous sentence suggests that whatever you do replaces the BOSS process entirely. 

 

OP's point is that people don't use BOSS. Don't use as in nil, zero, not installed. You use BOSS. Good. But OP's rant specifically targets people who don't use it at all. Nobody said anything about ditching other modding practices.

 

Reading the readme, mod description, followed by mod installation is step 1. Using BOSS is step 2. Further examination using utilities such as TES5Edit or opening it up in the CK is step 3. You're promoting step 3 when people haven't even figured out step 2. 

[Hayleyrose2323]

 

 

 

 If you have a mod crashing your game and you load boss up its not always going to show you a error. Which is why I learned to do things myself and usually have no trouble at all.

So what does that have to do with BOSS? Does your ability to troubleshoot improve with this self-imposed restriction of not using BOSS at all? Seriously, this ain't Hunter x Hunter.

 

??? It has to do with BOSS because Like i just said, If you load it up its not always going to show you whats wrong. Sometimes it takes other actions than BOSS to figure out a issue. I Didnt say I never use it, I said sometimes it just doesn't always help and people should know that when downloading it when people are telling them they should use it. Sometimes it takes better understanding of the mod and what it does and how it works. Simple as that.

Alright. That's my bad for misinterpreting, but you could have phrased it like "why I learned to do more myself", "why I do more than just BOSS" or whatever. The use of  "do things myself" and the tone of your previous sentence suggests that whatever you do replaces the BOSS process entirely. 

 

OP's point is that people don't use BOSS. Don't use as in nil, zero, not installed. You use BOSS. Good. But OP's rant specifically targets people who don't use it at all. Nobody said anything about ditching other modding practices.

 

Reading the readme, mod description, followed by mod installation is step 1. Using BOSS is step 2. Further examination using utilities such as TES5Edit or opening it up in the CK is step 3. You're promoting step 3 when people haven't even figured out step 2. 

 

 

Yea i know what the OP was talking about, was just saying to anyone who is thinking about using it that sometimes even BOSS cant help certain issues hehe. But is all good. Just sometimes people expect too much from stuff is all.

 

[mclericp]

i use boss and i still have heaps of eternal loading screens and ctd

Sometimes BOSS and FNIS cannot fix these issues. In my case, it was too many scripts loaded at once which caused a ctd, or entering a place with heavy textures. BOSS did not tell me if anything is conflicting. FNIS rerun didnt help either.

 

So to sum up, just because people complain they have ctd etc doesnt mean they dont use BOSS. BOSS Is just a software. It is not god. It will not solve all the issues.

[TheSGC]

Yeah, I also have tons of CTDs, I just learn to live with it. Search the forums for tools that will help alleviate some of them, learning to save often (if I get the dreaded load screen CTD, I just restart the game and go to an earlier save, seems to work, even if that is utter blasphemy for the more experienced users out there, I don't give a rat's ass), etc. 

[Guest Mogie56]

Only tool I use for resolving CTD's is TesEdit5, nothing more. I used BOSS for Oblivion but it did nothing for Lovers. (until someone started listing Lovers mods for it) But I was already using TesEdit4. I've only used WryeBash for adding masters and small things like that. 9 out of 10 times for me ctd's come from not inspecting a mod close enough and it replaces a skeleton. which afaik no tool will tell you that. but games are much like a computer, it crashes due to user error. and usually a tool won't tell you that either. 

[ds64]

well...
The tools that let me know that Sound of Skyrim (Old version) have some serious problem is BOSS (before the mod author fix it's problem) and the other mods that need cleaning...

That's why I always use this tools all this time, beside Wyre bash and Tes5 Edit.