Creation kit release announced

[labrat]

@GrimReaper

 

I think you're right. Probably.

 

 

@Kardagan

 

Free to mod away as much as you like, but if you want to use our CK you will have to use the Steam option?

Shall we agree to wait and see?

 

Or will shouting "NO!" in a loud voice (metaphorically speaking) convince our benefactors of the unwisdom of restrictive behaviour before it is implemented any further.

 

 

@GrimReaper

But then, they don't have to have people checking every post. There are enough VDs around perfectly willing to complain about what they find unacceptable. Then they just have to delete what is, after all, on their server, or take whatever other action they deem necessary to prevent unwanted material reaching a mass audience.

 

I think you are safe as long as they cannot reasonably ban access to a product that you have paid for that they are holding in trust on your behalf.

 

Of course, if you are in breach of any conditions attached to that product, then your rights are waived and they can withdraw services.

 

So, just so long as no mod causes offence or breaches the law in any signatory jurisdiction - no worries, they can't suspend you from Steam, take out injunctions, have your hard-drives and portable media seized etc.

 

 

 

(Is there a smiley wearing a tinfoil hat? Hell no, I want a smiley with a Steel Helmet.)

 

 

 

 

 

[GrimReaper]

Keep in mind that they don't need to observe you while you are working with the CK. They could just scan your data folder for any mods they consider offending/smut/whatever and they would have a reason to take action against you (in theory at least, I doubt they could do anything even if they knew you run a mod that includes beastiality for example).

 

Besides, you can always run steam in offline mode. And zap, no more spying at all.

 

I now think the reason is much more simpler. Companies want to make money, right? Bethesda talked about how they want to bring mods to the consoles, no? I think they are just airing a prototype for PSN and XboxLIVE using Steam. And because all and every mods are property of Bethesda they can even demand money for it, the consoles are the best place for that.

[Badmaker]

Does Skyrim need to be always connected to the internet? If not, then its unlikely mods like Sexrim will be kept out. I am sure mods can be downloaded the old fashioned way and dropped into a folder.

[labrat]

@GrimReaper

 

I'm not concerned about them "scanning my data folder". There are easy ways to circumvent that, and anyway as a rule I do not play or mod online. I do not use Steam to activate Skyrim atm. I don't want to play or mod "online". If the devs say I must be connected to Steam to use the CK, (i.e. online), then I will not use it unless something spectacular justifies the hassle of befuddling their system.

 

My concern is the data held "online" i.e. in their actual hardware. Currently, if you have played through Steam, then Steam holds copies of your Savefiles and, with regards to Steamworks, they wish to hold your modfiles - the esms and esps that you erstwhile controlled locally.

 

That is the import of the offer they are making. I don't think that they would willingly accept one percent of what we use in LoversPK.

 

As a service there is exciting mod management/config control potential there, with each user only downloading their bespoke clones each time you connect to Steam, from a central store that can rationalize conflicts and prevent unauthorised use of third party mods (if you are into that sort of thing). I will watch the version control system with interest.

 

when you fire up Skyrim, mods you flagged will be automatically downloaded and installed

 

And can you imagine the load lag as Steam installs 100+ mods everytime you start up Skyrim...How big is your data folder? my Oblivion data folder is over 26 gbs.

 

Do you think that any of the Lovers mods are going to be welcomed into the fold?

 

Doubtless there will be a way around it. We will have to see how intrusive or restrictive it is in practice. For starters, what if the only mods that Steam recognises are ones held in its own database, and you are unable to start Skyrim without Steam?

 

It matters not one hoot what you have in your Data directory if you cannot persuade the launcher to see it. I have a pre-stealth .exe that works without Steam at the moment. Will it always work or will I one day be forced to launch through Steam, and will Steam only see "approved" mods?

 

Your guess is probably as good as mine, but maybe a tad more optimistic.

 

 

 

 

 

[polluxval]

why is that everytime bethesda announces something related to steam there are a lot of complains and argues? just let the company release the CK and if u want to use it, use it, if dont, just dont. same with the game and any game related to steam.

[jesdexter]

Its not the same game. Its a slightly simpiler generic version of a francise in wich they can easly restrict content and test the boundies of witch their player base will take punches to the gut and/or restrict porn USING THE INTERNET GASP D:

[Atreyu]

If we do need the internet, that's a douche move by bethesda.

[ragindude]

@polluxval

 

Don't be naive.

 

I wonder if this system are not the first stones to build a road toward mods control and some shady money scheme. Call me paranoid, but where there is money to be made... On the good side Nexus might lose some of his shitty ad revenues.

 

Skyrim creation kit only released in january... whaaaaaaa?

[Athstai]

why is that everytime bethesda announces something related to steam there are a lot of complains and argues? just let the company release the CK and if u want to use it, use it, if dont, just dont. same with the game and any game related to steam.

 

I think it is called "writing your opinion". I can assure you that noone is actually going to drive to Bethesda and force them to do it otherwise.

And of course those who don't want to use the CK under such (possible, right now its a lot speculation) conditions won't do it - through you might notice that it effects mostly the consumers of such mods.

[DocClox]

A nude mod is just a mesh replacer' date=' you don't need the CK for this at all.

[/quote']

 

Well, the game is rated mature, so they can probably cope with the flak a few early bikini-removing mods.

 

What they're probably worried about are quick and dirty ports of Animated Prostitution and RaperS getting them some unwanted publicity. That might be a bit harder for them to spin.

 

[patzy]

Sounds great for me, can't wait to start converting for Skyrim.

[vinvin__]

If the worst comes to worst and Beath demands it to be used with steam, wth an internet connection, etc, etc, we need to consider that this is a tool made for modders, the likely hood of the program being modified for free-use within the first 24 hours (much like any other cracked software) is very high.

[Med111]

@Grimreaper - There is simple reasoning behind this. Only customers who paid for Skyrim will get acces to (hopefully) huge and easy to navigate mod database

 

I think it's a good move, as they're just encouraging people interested in modding/mods to buy Skyrim. Don't be so paranoid. I bet it'll be just "Upload" button next to "Save as", you won't have to upload everything to their database. Seriously, Bethesda isn't that stupid to piss off modding community, because we're keeping TES games alive until next one comes out and even years after that. So I HIGHLY doubt, that CK will scan our data folders.

 

Damn, you're so paranoid and pessimistic

[galgat]

Now I guess every ones who worry's is crazy.. But those who do not worry are normal people. Paranoid, and Pessimistic or psychological disorder problems.

 

So if I worry about this, that Makes me crazy.. and I can be called Crazy by the people that don't worry..

 

Just for having and Opinion.. this gets better and better...LOL

[DocClox]

Nothing wrong with a little paranoia. A certain amount of cyncism and suspicion is probably healthy and rational in modern society.

 

The only problem lies with irrational paranoia. Such as when you murder the postman to stop him reporting on you to the CIA, that sort of thing.

 

I don't think a mild distrust of Steam (based largely on its potential for abuse) really qualifies

[Chaosrains]

You know what I hear in this thread? Conspiracy theories.

 

Some of you just want to make Bethesda out to be the criminal - when all they're doing is trying to make the game more accessible.

 

Steam integration does that. The Steam platform is brilliant. Easy to use, allows quick access to content, and allows developers to quickly and painlessly release updates to software. The Steam integration is in all likelihood absolutely nothing sinister, it's more like they're trying to make it "easy access" for people who aren't overly familiar with the PC modding scene. It also allows them to rollout updates to the client without needing to post a download link somewhere, and say "Hey, new update, but you need to go to this website, download the patch, and then install it".

 

And yes, they probably wanted to put some sort of DRM in place. But it's extremely, and I mean extremely, light DRM. Nothing close to the sort of thing Ubisoft pulls with every one of their games nowadays. Steam DRM is very simple to crack.

 

Bethesda is not out to make you the criminal. They just want to release something that is usable, provides robust features, and has at least some small level of protection for their IP. You know, like any good company does.

[Presto]

Kinda let down that the CK won't be out till January but I'm not totally convinced that it's because of adult content that is why it is being pushed back and integrated with steam. I think we are looking at this issue with tinted glasses because we create and use adult themed mods here so if we hear there is the issue the first thought we have is that the issue is because of what we like to mod with the game.

 

It may very well have been that the CK wasn't going to be ready until January and they would rather release a fully functioning and working program instead of one thats busted. As for the steam/mod situation, I'll need to do more reading on it but I have a feeling this is tied back to some form of generating revenue. Either ads will pop up while you're editing the game or your email will be spammed or something of that nature. I'm sure the adult mods aren't the favorite of the game developers but I'm not convinced that they are on a crusade to wipe them out of the game.

 

I say all of this because I fear the alternative. If developers start creating systems to prevent you from modding their moddable games the way you want and start forcing you to use a system that may eventually cost you money or invasion of privacy then we are heading in the wrong direction here.

[Callipygic]

@GrimReaper

 

when you fire up Skyrim' date=' mods you flagged will be automatically downloaded and installed [/quote']

 

And can you imagine the load lag as Steam installs 100+ mods everytime you start up Skyrim...How big is your data folder? my Oblivion data folder is over 26 gbs.

I don't think this is the suggestion... it's not going to re-download all of your mods every time, it's just going to download the mods from the asset store that you havn't got yet.

 

It may scan the mods you have and it recognises to let you know about updates to them, which will be useful if they implement that... although personally I'd like the ability to turn that off, my internet connection gets beaten up by Steam enough as it is.

 

 

Doubtless there will be a way around it. We will have to see how intrusive or restrictive it is in practice. For starters, what if the only mods that Steam recognises are ones held in its own database, and you are unable to start Skyrim without Steam?

That's more of a worry... they've explicitly said that mods outside of the 'workshop' will still be available, so they're promising away from that at first, but that's something they could always change their mind on later.

 

The real question is... what would be their motivation?

 

Firstly, they're bright enough to realise that the free content is one of the major driving elements behind the success of the modding community. There are enough real-world examples of what happens when you don't allow that to teach them that lesson.

 

Secondly, the moment you monetise the mods you have a pathway for the mod creators to demand recompense for their work the moment it has an official stamp on it. Sure you can make people sign various agreements to try and force them to give you their work for free, but such agreements tend to be very fragile in the courts, and there are people who will create any crap simply for the legislative opportunity.

 

Finally... they've promised that the mod system will remain free, and they've presented at least a face of fairly neutral concern over the content. Going back on these stances would pretty much guarantee that the next Beth game would be a failure, after the fallout (no pun intended ).

 

Nah, I think we're pretty safe from big brother here... there's just no profit in it, and as the colloquial old sergeant always says, follow the money. It's in Beth's benefit to keep the modders as happy as possible, because it fills in the gaps between releases (and ensures a very enthusiastic community to buy the DLC stuff).

It's in Beth's benefit to let the Adult modders in the back door (still no pun intended ) simply because sex sells, and they can reap the benefits of that while keeping it at arms length.

 

I do think we need to be a little bit careful in here, to keep big bro comfortably sleeping. We do after all offer mods that supply rape, zoophilia, snuff and necrophilia, sexual slavery and prostitution... fantasy or not, it makes people uncomfortable (although don't get me started on the morals of that viewpoint against a game that rewards you for murdering an innocent civilian by giving you lots of loot. Seriously, pirates, assassins and dark cultists are ok, but bonking someone for money isn't?)

Still, a habit of age checks, adult content declarations and euphamisms might be healthy for us to adopt.

 

TL;DR version... The money says we're safe from Big Bro, and the Workshop's a good thing. Just cover your ass. Specially if it's kinky

 

 

[DocClox]

I don't think this is the suggestion... it's not going to re-download all of your mods every time' date=' it's just going to download the mods from the asset store that you havn't got yet.

[/quote']

 

Well... they've already said you won't be required to use Steam to manage your mods. So the simple solution is to d/l manually and install using the mod manager of your choice. That's the approach I shall be taking. Inevitably I suppose there are going to be some modders who release only to steam. I'll take that as it comes.

 

If you do use Steam as a mod manager, a lot will depend on some implementation specifics. If it informs you when new versions are available and leaves you to d/l at your convenience, there's still unlikely to be a problem. On the other hand, if it auto-downloads mod updates in the same way as Steam auto-applies patches, then there are a couple of concerns.

 

One of them is timing. You could potentially sit down for a half-hour of backward-flying dragon slaying and find that there's new releases for the Apachii Goddess Store, Colourwheel's Sexy Overhaul and Modular Beautiful People (or their Skyrim equivalents) and find yourself locked out of your game until they all download.

 

The other concern is that one bad mod can break your game. If something gets accepted without adequate testing, you could be stuck with it. Again, I'd hope that the interface allows you to roll back mods to a previous version, but until it gets released nothing is certain.

 

 

[Athstai]

Don't be so paranoid. I bet it'll be just "Upload" button next to "Save as", you won't have to upload everything to their database.

That would be an acceptable solution, however they wouldn't have to enforce steam for this.

Also you have to consider this: Many mods have dependencies on other mods. Obviously you can only publish your mod on Steam Workshop if all dependend mods are published there too. If one very popular base mod author deceides against steam, this could lead to a chain reaction forcing many other mods (which use this said mod) to stay off steam.

This is not in steams interest and could derail the whole system, so I do suspect they are either going to either disencourage/forbid having dependencies on Mods which are not on steam or they will encourage/force publishing your own mod on steam even if you can publish it somewhere else too.

 

The Steam platform is brilliant.

There is no point discussing this here, has been done hundrets time already. Point is some just don't like steam and don't want to be forced to use it.

 

Also I don't think Beth is doing this in order to root out Adult mods or anything, imo they don't really care about those (which also means they probably don't care if they have to kill them off at some point). What they want is tieing the game closer to steam to encourage buying the game there, making it easier for steam users to use mods and probably gaining some control over the modding community. Possibly also a first step to port mods to consoles.

[LordJerle]

Microsoft has already made their stance towards user mods very clear: they don't want them anywhere near their consoles. Sony is more on the fence about it, but I wouldn't hold my breath.

[ragindude]

Microsoft has already made their stance towards user mods very clear: they don't want them anywhere near their consoles. Sony is more on the fence about it' date=' but I wouldn't hold my breath.

[/quote']

 

Yeah, no big secret here, they want to keep total control over their platform. You do not own a console, you rent it.

[jinsanx]

There is no wrong with worrying here. There's alot of red flags here. We know these companies as pretty good at planning things out and I find it hard to believe they put money into making us a mod manager for our benefit after the game has been released and they've made initial profits. Successful companies don't typically do those things.

 

A Jan release of CS? Needs time to make the CS?lolno, or We need to have a release with less adult stuff out right away so our game doesn't once more get associated with nudey mods and such(lol nude mods still appeared without CS). We wait 2 months, put it out and it'll take a little longer to make adult mods. Prolly safer. That sounds like a believable plan that these guys would make.

 

Releasing a possibly restrictive / data gathering program? Could be innocent or we might get a patch 6 months down that road that forces esps and esms to be vetted by steam workshop before loading. Granted this is a possibly and a worst case one at that, but I'm not throwing the possibility out. I do know they wouldn't do anything right away that seems restrictive since that'd cause a community shock and prolly be negative for them. After all, they still want to sell more copies for awhile.

 

Maybe this is all innocent, but either way, it's raised some red flags for me. I'm worried about it - but only so much that I know we'd end up having to waste a month waiting on all the talented modders to find ways to circumvent any potential vetting program. Hopefully I'm wrong and they already understood this last part as well.

 

I should mention that I like Bethesda and their games, and I'm not a steam hater - I'm just being objective and respecting their ability to run a successful companies.

[Mashi]

Well I'd have to try and find the post, but they've already said that no one has to use the 'steamworkshop' for mods, so if you want to get them from here, or from somewhere else, go ahead.

[polluxval]

@polluxval

 

Don't be naive.

 

I wonder if this system are not the first stones to build a road toward mods control and some shady money scheme. Call me paranoid' date=' but where there is money to be made... On the good side Nexus might lose some of his shitty ad revenues.

 

Skyrim creation kit only released in january... whaaaaaaa?

[/quote']

 

naive? did u understand the meaning of that word? come on, of course i understand there is a money scheme behind all of this, its a game. it has to be money involved, or did i miss something and games are totally free now?

 

why is that everytime bethesda announces something related to steam there are a lot of complains and argues? just let the company release the CK and if u want to use it' date=' use it, if dont, just dont. same with the game and any game related to steam. [/quote']

 

I think it is called "writing your opinion". I can assure you that noone is actually going to drive to Bethesda and force them to do it otherwise.

And of course those who don't want to use the CK under such (possible, right now its a lot speculation) conditions won't do it - through you might notice that it effects mostly the consumers of such mods.

 

when skyrim was announced to be released under steam i read a lot of posts and threads, there people put their opinions. but now, i dont find any opinion, only inquiries.

 

anyway, i myself hate steam. but i tired of being paranoid, anyway, one bad move from them, and theyll end badly.