Licenses - Player Oppression

[naaitsab]

License borrow idea: As you enter the city, you can request a temporary license. The catch is that you need to wear X DD devices depending on the price of the licence. And when you exit the city the devices get removed but also your temporary license. Or alternatively set it like that the weartime of the DD is Y times the validity of the license.

 

Devices should be hindering so it's not a easy bypass, adding a chance to a fail also helps. And even more cruel, if you ask for something like a Whore license or Weapon license a chance game is played so you can get a DD equipped that prevents just that. So in these examples a Chastity set + ball gag or armbinder/yoke/straightjacket. In essence making your license useless.

[cerebus300]

18 minutes ago, MolagBalsFriend said:

Assume that I must purchase at least a clothing license, armor license or bikini license.

How can I approach a guard to purhcase a license without being arrested?

Is there any way to get a license without temporarily disabling it in the MCM?

Wouldn't it just be necessary to remove all clothing and armor before you went to talk to, or be around, the guards?

[Nuascura]

17 hours ago, naaitsab said:

License borrow idea: As you enter the city, you can request a temporary license. The catch is that you need to wear X DD devices depending on the price of the licence. And when you exit the city the devices get removed but also your temporary license. Or alternatively set it like that the weartime of the DD is Y times the validity of the license.

 

Devices should be hindering so it's not a easy bypass, adding a chance to a fail also helps. And even more cruel, if you ask for something like a Whore license or Weapon license a chance game is played so you can get a DD equipped that prevents just that. So in these examples a Chastity set + ball gag or armbinder/yoke/straightjacket. In essence making your license useless.

Sounds interesting. Let me dwell on this idea for a bit more.

 

The idea of temporary licenses could be expanded to exist outside city and town areas, so that the player essentially pays with bondage rather than gold.

 

Mandatory devices inside walled cities, but not outside, à la City Bondage or Devious Guards has been on my mind. But I first need to figure out how to differentiate between inside and outside Walled Cities. I'd like Guards to unlock devices on request so that devices don't magically disappear once the player steps outside the city.

[naaitsab]

1 hour ago, Gyra said:

Sounds interesting. Let me dwell on this idea for a bit more.

 

The idea of temporary licenses could be expanded to exist outside city and town areas, so that the player essentially pays with bondage rather than gold.

 

Mandatory devices inside walled cities, but not outside, à la City Bondage or Devious Guards has been on my mind. But I first need to figure out how to differentiate between inside and outside Walled Cities. I'd like Guards to unlock devices on request so that devices don't magically disappear once the player steps outside the city.

You can play around with the location. parent location and worldspace. for example Whiterun city is it's own worldspace, but Riverwood is just a location. Most houses are also linked to the parent location so it should not matter if you go into a house in Riverwood if you have a check on that.

[daveedmee]

I can't buy any licenses, neither at the steward nor the guards. I could need help figuring out what causes that

[brdc]

I played v1.3 (with clean save) for few hours and ran into an issue that I couldn't purchase life insurance. I set only steward as license sellers, toggled thane immunity only with life insurance, enabled 12 and limited to 8 licenses, cooldown was set to 1. When I tried buying, the dialogue went like a successful purchase but didn't add the license into inventory, and it was indeed not in effect as I kept being punished for not having life insurance. All other licenses worked well.

And here are some attempts I have made:

Tried buying in the city both I am a thane and not. Couldn't help.

Tried buying after waiting 24 hours in-game. Couldn't help.

Tried buying with thane immunity toggled off. Couldn't help.

With all these failure, I can only disable life insurance for now until the solution is found.

Besides, so far so good with v1.3. 

[Nuascura]

@Kaonashi 顔無し @brdc

 

Two problems, actually.

 

One is that, since the new Utility script doesn't give you a new license document after license purchase (if you already have a copy of the book item), the script doesn't refresh itself to see if you now have a valid license. As such, the script would only properly refresh if you don't have the corresponding license book item when purchasing said license.

 

Ex. Purchase Insurance with Insurance document on-hand: script won't refresh

Ex. Purchase Insurance without Insurance document on-hand: script will refresh

 

The second problem is that the Insurance purchase script isn't correctly linked via script property, so that's why Insurance in particular is failing.

 

Both will be fixed before the next full release.

Edited October 29, 2023 by Gyra

[Someone92]

Currently testing out Prison Overhaul Patched . Among other things it changes the Arrest event.

Would it be possible that BMLE uses it's arrest modevent instead of the default if it's installed?

[Nuascura]

24 minutes ago, Someone92 said:

Currently testing out Prison Overhaul Patched . Among other things it changes the Arrest event.

Would it be possible that BMLE uses it's arrest modevent instead of the default if it's installed?

It should be possible. I'll patch it in later on once we've got our bug fixes outta the way.

[brdc]

2 hours ago, Gyra said:

Both will be fixed before the next full release.

Got it.

Great job for super fast fix and update as always!

[Corsec]

So the Ordinator perk mod has a perk that allows casting novice/apprentice spells for free. This breaks the intended functioning of magic licences because it allows a way for players to still cast spells even when their magicka is debuffed to zero by the magicka curse. SLS has a scripted feature to remove the perk from the player while under the magicka curse.

 

Rather than doing it via script I'd suggest making an Ordinator patch to make the perks provide at most a 99% reduction in spell costs. This should avoid the need for scripted solutions while also preserving the intent of the magicka curse. Keeping the spell cost at 1% minimum will prevent the player from actually casting spells while under the magicka curse, but still keeping spell costs negligible while not under the magicka curse.

 

I'll whip up a patch when I get SSE installed again, planning to do that by the end of the week.

[Nuascura]

1 hour ago, Corsec said:

So the Ordinator perk mod has a perk that allows casting novice/apprentice spells for free. This breaks the intended functioning of magic licences because it allows a way for players to still cast spells even when their magicka is debuffed to zero by the magicka curse. SLS has a scripted feature to remove the perk from the player while under the magicka curse.

Have you tried BMLE 1.4?

The Cursed Collar doesn’t sap magicka. It stops the animation event itself. Wonder if this method is enough since I know your concern was already brought up in this thread.

[daveedmee]

Also quick question for everyone bc I don't know if it's intended, a bug or just a me thing, but with armor and magic licenses with the enchanted clothing license option enabled, if the player doesn't have any of these valid licenses, and is wearing soulgem piercings (or any DD with an effect I think), do guards stop you all too?

Because it can get pretty annoying gettnig stopped by the guards every few meters when I can't remove them without keys. and I don't want to remove all of my equipped devices when entering a rural area or change mod configs every time if that outcome isn't supposed to happen in the first place

[Nuascura]

1 hour ago, Kaonashi 顔無し said:

Also quick question for everyone bc I don't know if it's intended, a bug or just a me thing, but with armor and magic licenses with the enchanted clothing license option enabled, if the player doesn't have any of these valid licenses, and is wearing soulgem piercings (or any DD with an effect I think), do guards stop you all too?

Because it can get pretty annoying gettnig stopped by the guards every few meters when I can't remove them without keys. and I don't want to remove all of my equipped devices when entering a rural area or change mod configs every time if that outcome isn't supposed to happen in the first place

I retrieved the non-lockable ones with additemmenu and couldn't replicate your issue. Had both enchanted clothing option enabled along with armor and magic licenses. BMLE only checks the slots you've enabled AND exits the checker if armor HasKeywordString("zad_Lockable"). So, theoretically, your issue shouldn't happen.

 

What BMLE version are you on? Have you tried to replicate the issue on a new save?

[daveedmee]

31 minutes ago, Gyra said:

I retrieved the non-lockable ones with additemmenu and couldn't replicate your issue. Had both enchanted clothing option enabled along with armor and magic licenses. BMLE only checks the slots you've enabled AND exits the checker if armor HasKeywordString("zad_Lockable"). So, theoretically, your issue shouldn't happen.

 

What BMLE version are you on? Have you tried to replicate the issue on a new save?

I'm on BMLE 1.4 and yes I've had the issue on a new save. I should have clarified though, that I have problems with the piercings added by Deviously Accessible. Sorry it's late and I just got off work.

Also, thank you for taking your time

[Nuascura]

2 hours ago, Kaonashi 顔無し said:

I'm on BMLE 1.4 and yes I've had the issue on a new save. I should have clarified though, that I have problems with the piercings added by Deviously Accessible. Sorry it's late and I just got off work.

Also, thank you for taking your time

Np. I tried out Deviously Accessible 7.2b's piercings (all 6 or so of them), but none of them were flagged in-game as violating license rules. I'll add a papyrus trace jic for the next release just for enchanted clothing violation. If you have this issue with 1.4 full release, pass the papyrus log. I'll be able to cross-reference it with the record in DA's plugin/

 

I will also note that, because of your report, I came across a logic error in BMLE's enchanted clothing checker. However, all the error did was make it more susceptible to incorrect FALSE flags for vanilla items. I highly doubt the corresponding fix would fix your issue.

[Nuascura]

Hi all. Internally or on my end, I'm going to take a more explicit break from adding new features with 1.4's release. As a mod user, I really appreciate stability and predictability in the mods I download, which is why I'm going to stay away from my desk and see if any issues are reported. Keep the suggestions coming. But for now, I'm focusing on bug fixes and improvement-type additions to the current feature-set that do not involve major feature additions.

 

For example, I'm looking for NONE object references as reported by papyrus logs. I'm also considering changing the Enchanted Clothing option to consider both armor and clothing, so not just clothing. 

[andbgame]

Hi!
Recently decided to try a mod. So far I have found a problem in my mod list - after start new game - very frequent (in 9 cases out of 10, approximately) - BMscripts is suspended (screen attached) - solution for now - it is activate mod in modmanager after initialize (and configure) all other mods. 
Also I have quite a lot of mods in my modlist, and I think it's quite possible to call 'script heavy'. 

The problem with suspended stack is not completely clear to me (how to avoid it), but as an option, I would like to suggest implement activating the mod on request - and not automatically at the start of a new game

 

Spoiler

---
(The post is rather more for information. I find it difficult to identify exactly what the problem is - I have changed my modlist quite a lot and am still testing)

Edited October 31, 2023 by andbgame

[Someone92]

Tried 1.4. Started a new game to ensure that no old code from 1.3 or 1.4.beta messes something up.

 

The dialog tree breaks when clicking to skip to the dialog selection pop up; instead the guard acts as if I have pressed TAB to leave the conversation. Equipment is also not un-equipped if the dialog breaks.

It seems with 1.4 the dialog breaks after the "You can'T do that. Jarl's orders" even if not clicking anything.

 

[Nuascura]

6 hours ago, Someone92 said:

Tried 1.4. Started a new game to ensure that no old code from 1.3 or 1.4.beta messes something up.

 

The dialog tree breaks when clicking to skip to the dialog selection pop up; instead the guard acts as if I have pressed TAB to leave the conversation. Equipment is also not un-equipped if the dialog breaks.

It seems with 1.4 the dialog breaks after the "You can'T do that. Jarl's orders" even if not clicking anything.

 

Please tell me

• the exact violation you believe you have incurred,
• the exact line that's said before dialogue exits,
• whether you had enough gold to pay the fine
• and whether this issue occurs on 1.4 with kinky dialogue enabled.

Based on the dialogue fragment you reported, I assumed you weren't using kinky dialogue. I started a new save, started an armor violation, and sped through the bounty dialogue. No issue on my end. I'll need the above info to more accurately replicate your circumstances.

 

8 hours ago, andbgame said:

Also I have quite a lot of mods in my modlist, and I think it's quite possible to call 'script heavy'. 

The problem with suspended stack is not completely clear to me (how to avoid it), but as an option, I would like to suggest implement activating the mod on request - and not automatically at the start of a new game

We'll see whether I make that an option.

 

As for the immediate future, you should know that "suspended stacks" when starting a new game is totally normal. It's as the name implies: "suspended", temporary, and that's as much as either of us need to know. When I start a new game, Resaver also warns me that my first save has suspended stacks and that papyrus is overloaded. Now. If you're in the middle of your playthrough and you're consistently getting suspended stacks across a number of saves, or papyrus is processing noticeably slower - that's when we have a problem.

[andbgame]

2 hours ago, Gyra said:

As for the immediate future, you should know that "suspended stacks" when starting a new game is totally normal. It's as the name implies: "suspended", temporary, and that's as much as either of us need to know. When I start a new game, Resaver also warns me that my first save has suspended stacks and that papyrus is overloaded. Now. If you're in the middle of your playthrough and you're consistently getting suspended stacks across a number of saves, or papyrus is processing noticeably slower - that's when we have a problem.

Yes, I agree - that in general this is a 'normal situation' the problem was simply that this situation blocked the opportunity to enter the MCM menu (MCM also suspended..) - and made it impossible to test the mods, and even after an hour of play it not recovered/resumed (it became easier to start new game) 

and apart from this small problem, which in general was easily solved by the delayed activation of the mod, everything seems to work well and stably (in first day). Thanks for the Mod  

Edited October 31, 2023 by andbgame

[Someone92]

3 hours ago, Gyra said:

Please tell me

• the exact violation you believe you have incurred,
• the exact line that's said before dialogue exits,
• whether you had enough gold to pay the fine
• and whether this issue occurs on 1.4 with kinky dialogue enabled.

Based on the dialogue fragment you reported, I assumed you weren't using kinky dialogue. I started a new save, started an armor violation, and sped through the bounty dialogue. No issue on my end. I'll need the above info to more accurately replicate your circumstances.

Do you also require the .log files?

[daveedmee]

I also found another bug with the default settings in my game:

"FNIS NPC Idles" and "FNIS Idle selection" from FNIS Spells count towards the Magic armor violation for me. A guard stoppd me and "removed" these. Disabling the FNISspells.esp fixed that for me but it's weird that it even happened in the first place.

Got fined and thrown into Cidha Mine for not wanting to T-pose lmao.
Minor annoyance, but wanted to let you know. If you need anything, logs or whatever, just let me know, I'm bad at knowing what kind of information to provide lol.

[Nuascura]

2 hours ago, andbgame said:

Yes, I agree - that in general this is a 'normal situation' the problem was simply that this situation blocked the opportunity to enter the MCM menu (MCM also suspended..) - and made it impossible to test the mods, and even after an hour of play it not recovered/resumed (it became easier to start new game) 

That’s honestly very strange. I’d be tempted to blame either one of the other mods you’ve installed or SkyUI. There is a known issue where SkyUI doesn’t correctly reflect cached data in loaded saves, causing blank MCMs. Other mods may be running concurrent heavy scripts, causing your game to delay BMLE scripts, leading to what you see in your screenshot. If you are technically-inclined, I’d try suspending quests via the console. Otherwise, try running BMLE in isolation, and then adding more mods on top as a process-of-elimination method.

 

1 hour ago, Someone92 said:

Do you also require the .log files?

Sure. But since you asked, I should clarify: my guess is that I won’t see anything in the logs. What you’ve described sounds more like the game is exiting the dialogue branch because there is no valid follow-up dialogue branch. Thus, this could be native stuff unrelated to papyrus. As it is, there are two possible causes of your issue: the quest is being stopped (small chance of papyrus trace, even smaller chance of this perpetrator as a whole since you said it isn’t time-dependent); or, there is an erroneous plugin dialogue condition CTDA.

 

9 minutes ago, Kaonashi 顔無し said:

"FNIS NPC Idles" and "FNIS Idle selection" from FNIS Spells count towards the Magic armor violation for me. A guard stoppd me and "removed" these. Disabling the FNISspells.esp fixed that for me but it's weird that it even happened in the first place.

Those utility spells are still spells. An enabled Magic License feature means you can’t have any spells “equipped”. If you equipped a Flame spell, for instance, you’d get the same effect. This shouldn’t be a bug, and shouldn’t be related to the enchanted clothing option in extension. Please let me know if I’ve misinterpreted anything. 
Should FNIS spells have a unique keyword, I can whitelist them. However, even then, this isn’t a “bug” per se.

[Nuascura]

@Someone92 On second thought, hold on to your log. Since I already laid the groundwork, I may as well also make the non-kinky dialogue unique per-violation. This will help me debug and also improve the experience for users who don’t enable the kinky dialogue feature.