Licenses - Player Oppression

[daveedmee]

16 minutes ago, Gyra said:

shouldn’t be related to the enchanted clothing option in extension. Please let me know if I’ve misinterpreted anything.

No you understood that perfectly fine, it might be that I just was misunderstanding my game messages shown because of the order they appeared in qnd because I don't know about all the things I don't see happening

 

 

21 minutes ago, Gyra said:

you can’t have any spells “equipped”

Ah shoot I forgot that these get equipped at the start. Didn't remember that these FNIS spells are in my hand by default. So I take back everything I said.

 

 

25 minutes ago, Gyra said:

Should FNIS spells have a unique keyword, I can whitelist them.

Took a quick gander through CK and afaik the FNIS magic effects don't have none keywords specified.


Thanks for the quick help and correction ^-^

[VeraDra]

1 hour ago, Gyra said:

That’s honestly very strange. I’d be tempted to blame either one of the other mods you’ve installed or SkyUI. There is a known issue where SkyUI doesn’t correctly reflect cached data in loaded saves, causing blank MCMs. Other mods may be running concurrent heavy scripts, causing your game to delay BMLE scripts, leading to what you see in your screenshot. If you are technically-inclined, I’d try suspending quests via the console. Otherwise, try running BMLE in isolation, and then adding more mods on top as a process-of-elimination method.

Can also confirm - having a similar issue on a freshly made save.

 

As far as I can tell, the mod is *loading* and at least starts to work (removing the mod, making a "clean" save), it'll show some initial startup scripts, but the MCM doesn't appear.

 

I've had similar-ish issues occur and usually manually killing/deleting all the suspended scripts usually kicks it into working but dunno. Also flagged Sky_UI.esp as a light plugin... a while ago and never *noticed* an issue but am now seeing menu items I never knew existed so there's that.

 

Sitting in a pretty much empty cell (Alternative Start) for me, so I don't think it's script related (even more so - the main reason I started a new save is because I started using SexLab p+ and a few other mods that weren't gonna play nicely with an existing save (DDNG))

[equasym19]

I feel like "Thaneship Provides Immunity" doesn't really work: I seem fine walking around in armor without license, but my enchanted stuff got confiscated and no vendor wants to trade with me. All licenses (except the one for travel i bought) are on "invalid" in whiterun after getting lydia. This stays like this even after fast travel and back.

Inserting a few debug.trace's says that while you recognize thaneship you only skip the timed interval checks.

i haven't found anywhere where you validate the licenses based on the thaneship and thus the anti-trade dialogue continues to be spoken. I haven't checked, but could the same be true for the magic/enchanted item detection?

[Nuascura]

49 minutes ago, equasym19 said:

I feel like "Thaneship Provides Immunity" doesn't really work: I seem fine walking around in armor without license, but my enchanted stuff got confiscated and no vendor wants to trade with me. All licenses (except the one for travel i bought) are on "invalid" in whiterun after getting lydia. This stays like this even after fast travel and back.

Inserting a few debug.trace's says that while you recognize thaneship you only skip the timed interval checks.

i haven't found anywhere where you validate the licenses based on the thaneship and thus the anti-trade dialogue continues to be spoken. I haven't checked, but could the same be true for the magic/enchanted item detection?

Fuck. Yep, that's a logic gap, thanks for reporting it. We've got two "isThane" variables here that's hard to differentiate now that there can be two methods of immunities from Thaneship. I need to rework the variables first and then change the license variables afterward.

[VeraDra]

4 hours ago, VeraDra said:

Can also confirm - having a similar issue on a freshly made save.

 

As far as I can tell, the mod is *loading* and at least starts to work (removing the mod, making a "clean" save), it'll show some initial startup scripts, but the MCM doesn't appear.

 

I've had similar-ish issues occur and usually manually killing/deleting all the suspended scripts usually kicks it into working but dunno. Also flagged Sky_UI.esp as a light plugin... a while ago and never *noticed* an issue but am now seeing menu items I never knew existed so there's that.

 

Sitting in a pretty much empty cell (Alternative Start) for me, so I don't think it's script related (even more so - the main reason I started a new save is because I started using SexLab p+ and a few other mods that weren't gonna play nicely with an existing save (DDNG))

Aight I could just be dyslexic or something.

 

I was expecting the MCM to be named "BM Licences", but it seems its actually named just "licenses" and I just kept missing it, despite likely scrolling past it a solid 20 times or so.

[Nuascura]

19 hours ago, VeraDra said:

Aight I could just be dyslexic or something.

 

I was expecting the MCM to be named "BM Licences", but it seems its actually named just "licenses" and I just kept missing it, despite likely scrolling past it a solid 20 times or so.

lol. Yeah, BananasManiac originally named it "BM Licenses", but then changed it to just "licenses" when they esl-ified the mod. I was also initially confused, and I've never bothered to change it.

 

21 hours ago, equasym19 said:

All licenses (except the one for travel i bought) are on "invalid" in whiterun after getting lydia. This stays like this even after fast travel and back.

Try the attached file. I caution, however, on relying on the MCM monitor for thane status. The reason is that Skyrim doesn't have a native variable for checking local Thaneship.

 

Thaneship is determined only during specific Guard interactions as that's the only time when Thaneship is of any use to the player. Skyrim does not save this value. BMLE follows Skyrim's logic to maximize Thaneship checker accuracy. However, this means that, if the scanner doesn't detect a guard nearby to verify Thaneship with, then it can't reflect this status change in the monitor. This is all why I intentionally avoid reflecting Thaneship statuses inside the MCM.

 

@Someone92try this file and lmk the dialogue line that exits your conversation 

 

 

Edited November 2, 2023 by Gyra
Removed attachment

[Someone92]

Iron Shield

You are not allowed to wear that around here. Jarl's orders.

Forgot what exactly the guard says next

Dialog breaks -> Where do you think you are going

150 bounty, no forced un-equip

 

Mace

Citizen. You must have a license to wear weapons.

Dialog breaks -> Where do you think you are going

150 bounty, no forced un-equip

 

Armor

Hey! You are not allowed to wear that equipment around here

Dialog breaks -> Where do you think you are going

150 bounty, no forced un-equip

 

Spells

Use of magic is forbidden

Dialog breaks -> Where do you think you are going

150 bounty, no forced un-equip

 

.

 

Strangely the mod worked correctly in previous versions.

Can test from which version onward it does no longer work.

 

edit:

Just remember I did not start a new game; will do so now.

 

edit2:

Same issues on a new game.

Edited November 1, 2023 by Someone92

[Nuascura]

@Someone92 And, if kinky dialogue is enabled, the dialogue doesn’t exit, right?

[equasym19]

16 hours ago, Gyra said:

Try the attached file. I caution, however, on relying on the MCM monitor for thane status. The reason is that Skyrim doesn't have a native variable for checking local Thaneship.

So... It worked, but only every time i save/load settings in the MCM. After modifying the "refreshThaneStatus" in "BM_Player.psc" into

    bmlUtility.refreshThaneStatus()
    bmlUtility.RefreshFeatures()

to update everything on location change, it seems to work... in outdoor worldspaces (like you said with the guards being required for thane check). no idea if the script interpreter will now fuck me over for too much load or some timer i overlooked bites my ass in undefined time.

I patched the thane/guard missing in interiors issue for me by simply ignoring the guard dependent conditions, but it would be better if the result of the guard-faction check would be cached for each hold instead of breaking as soon as the civil war quest gets progress (I do not expect to do the questchain, so I can ignore that)

Also: If you are looking for bad ideas for far future versions: Devious Key License

Edited November 1, 2023 by equasym19

[Nuascura]

1 hour ago, equasym19 said:

I patched the thane/guard missing in interiors issue for me by simply ignoring the guard dependent conditions, but it would be better if the result of the guard-faction check would be cached for each hold instead of breaking as soon as the civil war quest gets progress (I do not expect to do the questchain, so I can ignore that)

The result is actually cached for insurance popularity modifier calculations, but intentionally NOT for license immunities. 

 

I think the other possibility we could try is to check for Thane status with each violation check cycle instead of just with cell and loc changes. Not sure if that's too heavy for each cycle. 

 

BTW, just so you know, your modification is a bit too heavy LOL. Also simultaneously redundant and recursive. RefreshFeatures() already includes refreshThaneStatus(), so it'll loop endlessly. The second isThane is True, it's set to False again due to the recursion.

 

I'll try to tweak the Thane immunity feature a bit more on my end.

Edited November 1, 2023 by Gyra

[equasym19]

1 hour ago, Gyra said:

Also simultaneously redundant and recursive. RefreshFeatures

The issue is that isThane was checked, but the result never propagated into the licenses. Also I am calling RefreshFeatures from the OnUpdate, not recursively. Maybe I am just blind, but I have not found any update to the has...License variables from anywhere inside the OnUpdate which is delayed triggered from the cell change.

Also for caching: I was suggesting to just cache the guard affiliation (aka. stormcloak/imperial), not any further results to be able to check thanehood from interiors.

I have no deeper knowledge of the mod and am just throwing dumb stuff at it until it works enough for this playthrough, which will be disposed of soon anyway. No need to think through my methods, I just wanted to maybe inspire you how a seemingly possible solution worked for me

[Nuascura]

@equasym19 I see... I do appreciate it, really. Could you try the attached file? Thane Immunity should work with this version. If this result is reflected on your side, my next step is to gauge how heavy and/or slow the cycle now is. I'd also appreciate it if you could replicate @Someone92's issue.

 

16 hours ago, equasym19 said:

Maybe I am just blind

You probably aren't blind, but I also can't be bothered to check my old scripts. Updates to the has...License variables are now corrected with a dedicated Immunity Checker function, which was also necessary to fix an unrelated bug. You'll see the initial reason for this new function in the changelog.

 

On that note, I still can't replicate the erroneous dialogue exits. Beta 2 doesn't touch any of that stuff just yet.

 

Edited November 2, 2023 by Gyra
Removed attachment

[Nuascura]

33 minutes ago, equasym19 said:

I was suggesting to just cache the guard affiliation

 

3 hours ago, equasym19 said:

I patched the thane/guard missing in interiors issue for me by simply ignoring the guard dependent conditions

 

Also, could you clarify the benefit of caching the guard affiliation and how exactly you ignored the guard-dependent conditions?

 

Edit: Wait, I think I see what you're saying. Is this implementation kind of what you mean:

 

if guard != NONE || has cached guard faction

    run ThaneshipScanner

endIf

 

So that we're depending on the faction of the last-checked guard to run the scanner in cells where a guard actor is missing?

Edited November 2, 2023 by Gyra

[equasym19]

On 11/2/2023 at 2:15 AM, Gyra said:

if guard != NONE || has cached guard faction

    run ThaneshipScanner

endIf

 

So that we're depending on the faction of the last-checked guard to run the scanner in cells where a guard actor is missing?

Mostly Yes?  I wouldn't use the last cached, but cache for each hold in case of weird teleports (unless papyrus has more weird constraints).
As far as I can see it, all the actor check does is for civil war ownership changes, so we can cache these without issue, as these only change during the "big" battles

My recommendations is something like in this BM_Licenses_CheckThaneship.psc script (of course with the condition around "bmlCheckThaneship.ThaneImmunity()" in "BM_Licenses_utility.psc" removed). Warning: I currently can't check if this script works as my skyrim crashes instantly in the DeviousDevices.dll for (almost certainly (probably pink)) different reasons

I will test your new version tomorrow, if I get skyrim running again

EDIT: DD bug was 100% DD NG, as soon as they compile a new dll I will be able to test that

Edited November 3, 2023 by equasym19

[Nuascura]

16 minutes ago, equasym19 said:

Mostly Yes?  I wouldn't use the last cached, but cache for each hold in case of weird teleports (unless papyrus has more weird constraints).
As far as I can see it, all the actor check does is for civil war ownership changes, so we can cache these without issue, as these only change during the "big" battles

My recommendations is something like in this BM_Licenses_CheckThaneship.psc script (of course with the condition around "bmlCheckThaneship.ThaneImmunity()" in "BM_Licenses_utility.psc" removed). Warning: I currently can't check if this script works as my skyrim crashes instantly in the DeviousDevices.dll for (almost certainly) different reasons

I will test your new version tomorrow, if I get skyrim running again

I like this change! We can do away with one of the faction properties and also check local Thaneship status in absence of a nearby guard if there's a cached faction. Your script can probably slot-in within the fixes I've made (I haven't touched the CheckThaneship script for 1.4.1 just yet), but I'll also have to test this all out at the next time I'm free.

[Nuascura]

- Implemented a compressed version of @equasym19's script to cache guard factions.

- Fixed erroneous Magic Violation calls with @andbgame's report.

- Added some conditional safeguards for tagging quest aliases.

 

Known Issue: License purchase dialogue don't appear with new game playthroughs until after the save is reloaded. Session doesn't necessarily need to be restarted; the game just needs to reload the current session some way. You can resolve this issue by saving your game and loading that new save. I don't know how to fix this issue, but I also won't expend effort to fix this issue since it's good practice to reload your game sessions after starting a new save.

 

Edited November 4, 2023 by Gyra
Removed attachment

[Nuascura]

On 10/25/2023 at 6:06 PM, Pliny The Elder said:

Eating food causes the guards to fine me for using magic. If I find what's causing it, I'll let you know.

This bug is fixed with 1.5.0-beta.1

[Someone92]

With kinky dialog enabled, and shield equipped, it goes to

I have to check your inventory

then breaks and goes something like

Where do you think you are going?

 

1.4-beta-1, not a new game.

 

edit:

Also, license sellers "No faction" does not seem to work properly.

Prisoners in Solitude and NPCs from Simple Slavery Plus Plus had the buy dialog option.

 

edit2:

Can it be that mods such as

Convenient Dialogue UI

and

Switch Camera During Dialogue

cause issues?

Those might interact with dialog functions.

Edited November 2, 2023 by Someone92

[Nuascura]

12 minutes ago, Someone92 said:

With kinky dialog enabled, and shield equipped, it goes to

I have to check your inventory

then breaks and goes something like

Where do you think you are going?

 

beta-1, not a new game.

can you dm me on Discord? We are on the same servers, so you should be able to find me.

[ScroodPooch]

I found this mod interesting. My problem, however, is that I play as a male PC. This mod is clearly written from a female PC's perspective with sexist and misogynistic comment's. So, I decided to tweak the comments towards a male PC with female guards. Gender swapping the misogyny based dialogue, didn't make a lot of sense, so I tweaked it to reflect that guards were enforcing such rules against people who were new and strangers who would not have established trust in town.

[wareware]

Is there an option to disable all the notifications?

[Nuascura]

14 minutes ago, wareware said:

Is there an option to disable all the notifications?

Not at the moment. Is there a specific notification that you don’t want to see? Or do you just not want to see any notification from this mod, even if beneficial or convenient?

[wareware]

2 hours ago, Gyra said:

Not at the moment. Is there a specific notification that you don’t want to see? Or do you just not want to see any notification from this mod, even if beneficial or convenient?

 

I keep getting notifications everytime I change gear or I think when some mod adds its own magic effects.

[Nuascura]

34 minutes ago, wareware said:

 

I keep getting notifications everytime I change gear or I think when some mod adds its own magic effects.

it's a benign annoyance. I accidentally left it in while debugging. You won't see anything with the next update, unless I forget about another debug notification again.

[Lucky Sparrow]

This is a bizarre one.

 

I started a new game with BML 1.40 and SLS 0.685 beta installed.  In the live another life cell, in the MCM settings, I set up armor/weapon/magic licenses to be active in SLS, and crafting/trading/travel to be active in BML.  (I love it in SLS when a follower loses their armor, and in outrage steals your clothes in protest)

 

I then launched the game using the I was beaten and left for dead scenario, and when I tried to use a spell I got a notification that I couldn't use magic.  (I can't remember exactly what it said but it was something cute like "you tried but very little magic leaves your hand") 

 

I checked the magic status page and it showed I had a magic curse.  But my character did not have a collar or tattoo.

 

I went into the BLM MCM and disabled the whole mod.  But  no effect.  I disabled magic license in the SLS MCM with no effect.

 

I saved and exited the game, then disabled BLM and restarted.  Not only did I still have the magic curse, ,the BLM MCM menu was still active!!  This is one tough mother of a mod.

 

I exited and uninstalled BLM and fried the register for good measure lol, and the curse was lifted. 

 

BLM's MCM is gone and I can use magic again.