starfield Working around the space suit cockblock to happy fun time

[isThink]

4 hours ago, Cblack said:

how about a symbiote or a biosuit? Its backstore can be that it was made by a esoteric old woman, this allows for the option of future mods adding on to the mod.

 

I also hope for something like this. Maybe you are adventuring on a toxic planet and a questline starts where somewhere along the line, your normal space suit stops working. Find the living/biosuit and are forced to use it 

 

(I'm aware the space suit system doesn't work properly atm, I'm sure someone will fix that. For now I'm just fantasising and hopefully inspiring mod authors for later down the line)

[DocClox]

14 hours ago, Cblack said:

how about a symbiote or a biosuit? Its backstore can be that it was made by a esoteric old woman, this allows for the option of future mods adding on to the mod.

 

 

So... that works well for the player. And you can have all sort of invasive "living armor" fun.

 

It doesn't really solve the "space suit sex" problem though. At least not with other humans, anyway. Unless they have a biosuit as well, but then if every Spacer and CF raider is wearing this same tech, then perhaps it's getting a touch too pervasive, given the tone of the setting. Not that that will stop anyone, of course

[Vuulgar]

The system to capture and move the pc seems more important than the actual sex act. I havent tried in Starfield to pick up an NPC but I assume it works like past games so the PC can capture. I think it would be interesting if there was a chance to wake in transit for both pc and npc to add some variation. This seems like a complicated system, what happens if taken to another planet? Even killing your kidnappers leaves you potentially without a ship to leave but if possible it would be fun to work on an escape.

[Miauzi]

Now - the next disaster with the "spacesuit".

Just been to "Akila" - the "Western" planet.

For the "scan" you need 10 different animal species and of course one of them lives in the oceans of this planet.

So I chose a place with a coastal section and went through the forests until I reached the "beach".

At +10°C I can actually assume that there is no danger of "hypothermia" or "frostbite".

No - the game has another "surprise" -> "micro-biological attack" as soon as you are "in the water".

Yes - the sea is quasi-lethally tempted with germs.

I urgently recommend the company "Microsoft" to take this half-finished game off the market and to put at least 1 more year of work into it.

It is not only the game mechanics that are wrong here - but the whole idea of a planetary ecology in which people live (attention "agriculture") is turned upside down.

[Vallsz]

Fallout 4 had certain NPCs that were locked in power armor. Modders found away to get them out of it. I'm sure spacesuits won't be a huge problem

[sen4mi]

20 hours ago, Miauzi said:

No - the game has another "surprise" -> "micro-biological attack" as soon as you are "in the water".

That could be an opportunity, for example:

 

1. Player might need to buy special life support gear (which, in LL tradition, might tend put the character into a somewhat compromised state), or
2. The micro-biological attack might itself be a precursor to something or another (tentacle sex could be implemented in a variety of ways, though a suit update might be the simplest, or some sort of symbiont reaction might instead occur, or perhaps the player's body simply overreacts during recovery)
3. Rescue services, who might be gentle, but insistent.
4. etc.

[Miauzi]

Vor 3 Stunden sagte sen4mi:

Das könnte zum Beispiel eine Chance sein:

 

1. Der Spieler muss möglicherweise spezielle lebenserhaltende Ausrüstung kaufen (was in der LL-Tradition den Charakter tendenziell in einen etwas kompromittierten Zustand versetzen könnte) oder
2. Der mikrobiologische Angriff könnte selbst ein Vorläufer für irgendetwas sein (Tentakelsex könnte auf verschiedene Weise umgesetzt werden, wobei ein Anzug-Update die einfachste sein könnte, oder es könnte stattdessen eine Art Symbiontenreaktion auftreten, oder vielleicht der Körper des Spielers). reagiert während der Genesung einfach über)
3. Rettungsdienste, die vielleicht sanft, aber beharrlich sind.
4. usw.

 

The only problem is ... without "god-mode" you are DEAD within 3-6 sec.

so much for your idea

?

[sen4mi]

On 9/23/2023 at 5:00 PM, Miauzi said:

 

The only problem is ... without "god-mode" you are DEAD within 3-6 sec.

so much for your idea

?

I thought we were talking about modding the game?

 

Edit: (after sleeping on this): I was thinking of a change where the fundamental character of the game (do not go in the water) was retained but where we change the details of what deters players from spending time in the water. (So, instead of losing health and time from having to reload a save, you lose time and volition until you can extract yourself enough from a tentacle minigame to resume playing - presumably with some long term disadvantages which would gradually wear off.)

 

Edited October 3, 2023 by sen4mi
(maybe clear up one possible point of confusion)

[rockitten]

On 9/23/2023 at 4:10 AM, Miauzi said:

I urgently recommend the company "Microsoft" to take this half-finished game off the market and to put at least 1 more year of work into it.

It is not only the game mechanics that are wrong here - but the whole idea of a planetary ecology in which people live (attention "agriculture") is turned upside down.

 

Well, seems Starfield was a very different game as it is now, with lots of "survival mods" stuff in place. But it is just not fun:

 

starfield_was_a_very_different_game_than_what_was

 

"What is another system that could be described as pointless? You probably wouldn't disagree if I said Environmental Hazards. Nobody understands them and they don't do much of anything. I would say, based on the previous vestigial systems that still exist in the game, these are also vestigial elements of a game that significantly shifted at some point in development. In this previous version of the game, where we were forced down to planets to build outposts for fuel, I believe Hazards played a larger role in making Starfield the survival game I believe it originally was. We can only speculate on what this looked like, but it's not hard to imagine a Starfield in which players who walk out onto a planet that is 500°C without sufficient heat protection, simply die. Getting an infection may have been a matter of life and death. Players would struggle against the wildlife, pirates, bounty hunters, and the environment itself. Having different suits and protections would be important and potentially would have been roadblocks for players to solve to be able to continue their journey forward. "

 

So what we have is a crappy left over of the survival mode, which the sex-lab framework can just disable it during sex (or altogether) and no one really cares.........

-

The same applies for no support for joystick/HOTAS or the way too simplified flight control: because there are only so much buttons on the X-box controller.......

[GemGem]

What about a "beam me up"/shuttle option? When defeated the victim is brought or beamed up to a ship or base?

And a shuttle itself (just a mini ship, cockpit, landing gear, engine and cargo area) should provide enough space for shenanigans.

Edited September 24, 2023 by GemGem

[Miauzi]

Vor 5 Stunden sagte sen4mi:

Ich dachte, wir reden darüber, das Spiel zu modifizieren?

 

Before you can modify something like the spacesuit - its protection system has to work correctly in the first place ... otherwise you are DEAD

and what doesn't work for reasons that are not yet known ... I'm documenting it here

but some here don't seem to understand or don't want to understand that

you can still think up the most amazing things aka modifications ... but it's all "dead art" as long as no one knows if it can ever be implemented - without killing the player

and just stand there and say -> the mod authors will solve the problem somehow ... is in my eyes -> BULLSHIT

[Miauzi]

Vor 2 Stunden sagte Rockitten:

 

Nun, es scheint, dass Starfield ein ganz anderes Spiel war als es jetzt ist, mit vielen „Survival-Mods“-Sachen. Aber es macht einfach keinen Spaß:

 

starfield_was_a_very_different_game_than_what_was

 

„Was ist ein anderes System, das als sinnlos bezeichnet werden könnte? Sie würden wahrscheinlich nicht widersprechen, wenn ich Umweltgefahren sagen würde. Niemand versteht sie und sie bewirken nicht viel. Ich würde sagen, basierend auf den früheren Überbleibselsystemen, die noch existieren Im Spiel sind dies auch Überbleibsel eines Spiels, das sich irgendwann in der Entwicklung erheblich verändert hat. In dieser früheren Version des Spiels, in der wir gezwungen waren, auf Planeten zu landen, um Außenposten für Treibstoff zu errichten, spielten Gefahren meiner Meinung nach eine größere Rolle Ich glaube, dass Starfield ursprünglich das Überlebensspiel war. Wir können nur darüber spekulieren, wie das aussah, aber es ist nicht schwer, sich ein Starfield vorzustellen, in dem Spieler, die ohne ausreichenden Hitzeschutz einen Planeten mit einer Temperatur von 500 °C betreten, einfach sterben . Eine Infektion zu bekommen, könnte eine Frage von Leben und Tod gewesen sein. Die Spieler hätten gegen die Tierwelt, Piraten, Kopfgeldjäger und die Umwelt selbst zu kämpfen. Unterschiedliche Anzüge und Schutzmaßnahmen wären wichtig und hätten möglicherweise Hürden für die Spieler geschaffen, die es zu lösen gilt in der Lage sein, ihre Reise nach vorne fortzusetzen. "

 

Was wir also haben, ist ein beschissenes Überbleibsel des Überlebensmodus, den das Sexlabor-Framework beim Sex (oder ganz) einfach deaktivieren kann, und niemand kümmert sich wirklich darum.......

-

Gleiches gilt für die fehlende Unterstützung von Joystick/HOTAS oder die viel zu vereinfachte Flugsteuerung: weil es auf dem X-Box-Controller nur begrenzte Tasten gibt.......

 

Topic: Infection:

The whole system with infection - disease - countermeasures (anti-biotics) - production of medicines is in play.

and

even works quite well

what doesn't work -> is the primary protection by the spacesuit.

If I wear it on a planet with a breathable atmosphere ... it has in fact no protective effect against the planetary environment - neither against temperatures, nor against harmful gases, nor against dangerous pores or microbes ... the spacesuit is reduced to a battle or knight's armour.

But all this is NOT communicated by the game manufacturer - who lets the player "run full into the knife"!!!

 

---

 

Why can I actually improve my spacesuit in research?

So that it gives me better protection against the dangers of the environment?

So far I can't really find anything useful ... not even a night or thermal vision system for the helmet.

At night you are "blind as a bat" - they had much more advanced technology in Fallout 4 - the "scanner" was part of the helmet and not something in the hand that prevents the player from carrying or using weapons!

(I use a mod in "Fallout 4" that makes the nights really dark - without thermal or night vision you are "really screwed" - especially as I have a vampire mod).

---

Whether you can actually deactivate this system so easily - I dare to doubt it.

 

---

Topic Flight Control ... just one comment:

Why do you have 6 different energy bars ...? a game like "Elite" gets by with 3 and you can actually change them IN FIGHT by means of an assigned key.

How should you realise an energy management in "Starfield" in combat? -> not at all - because here, too, something was started but never finished.

 

[isThink]

5 hours ago, Miauzi said:

 

Before you can modify something like the spacesuit - its protection system has to work correctly in the first place ... otherwise you are DEAD

and what doesn't work for reasons that are not yet known ... I'm documenting it here

but some here don't seem to understand or don't want to understand that

you can still think up the most amazing things aka modifications ... but it's all "dead art" as long as no one knows if it can ever be implemented - without killing the player

and just stand there and say -> the mod authors will solve the problem somehow ... is in my eyes -> BULLSHIT

aint gotta be so negative, we are just having our fun dreaming up ideas. im sure the space suit system will be fixed in some way or form.

Until that time, nothing says we cant brainstorm fun ideas.

[sen4mi]

8 hours ago, Miauzi said:

you can still think up the most amazing things aka modifications ... but it's all "dead art" as long as no one knows if it can ever be implemented - without killing the player

and just stand there and say -> the mod authors will solve the problem somehow ... is in my eyes -> BULLSHIT

Definitely - until modding tools are released, we cannot mod the game.

 

However, past experience suggests that we will be able to adjust damage rates and other things. Also, past experience suggests that modding tools might be available by Christmas, but that we might have to wait until early next year. Also, relevant third-party tools with limited capabilities might be useful sooner...

[sen4mi]

11 hours ago, rockitten said:

starfield_was_a_very_different_game_than_what_was

 

 

That was really interesting to read.

 

And, I could very much see a Starfield total conversion which turned it into a survival game.

 

(But I could also see a Starfield total conversion which turned it into any of a variety of other games.)

 

((But getting the game balance right? For any of those hypothetical total conversions? That would take a lot of testing and a fairly clear understanding of how other games of those genres function. And modders emotionally equipped to do that kind of testing and development tend to be few and far between.))

[HeathenSunrise]

On 9/19/2023 at 2:58 PM, Miauzi said:

 

Well - they also get lung damage from "corrosive" gases in God mode or get frostbite which is not gone after the end of God mode.

They do not die - but they are still "ill" ... and have to take appropriate medication!

So this is not a good idea without fixing the game mechanics ... It is still completely open what else will explode in the "engine" of the game.

It's basically the same engine that they built Skyrim and Fallout 4 on - if you look at the data files using early beta builds of xEdit it's blatantly obvious.  They might have upgraded stuffs and tweaked things to get it to work in space and to generally make it better.  But game engine wise... it's pretty much Skyrim in space.  

 

Although I have to comment on how STABLE the game is.  I think this has got to be the MOST stable Bethesda game I have EVER played.  Even Skyrim after 15 years of patching is not as stable as Starfield.  

[isThink]

4 hours ago, HeathenSunrise said:

It's basically the same engine that they built Skyrim and Fallout 4 on - if you look at the data files using early beta builds of xEdit it's blatantly obvious.  They might have upgraded stuffs and tweaked things to get it to work in space and to generally make it better.  But game engine wise... it's pretty much Skyrim in space.  

 

Although I have to comment on how STABLE the game is.  I think this has got to be the MOST stable Bethesda game I have EVER played.  Even Skyrim after 15 years of patching is not as stable as Starfield.  

yea ive hard mixed reports of stableness, apparently for some people their rigs dont like the game XD

But it runs fine for me too, havnt crashed once

[DocClox]

I get crashes. Not bad enough to make the game unplayable, but maybe once every couple of days.

 

I think the problem is probably that my rig is at the lower end of the recommended specs, and has to work a bit too hard when it starts raining. I also think the problem might go away if I got some compressed air and cleaned out the filters. I keep putting it off because wrestling it out of it's current location is not a trivial exercise.

[Anhedonia_]

On 9/24/2023 at 2:17 AM, rockitten said:

starfield_was_a_very_different_game_than_what_was

 

Wow, that... huh. A lot of odd or arbitrary-seeming design decisions suddenly make a lot more sense now, and they were staring me in the face the whole time. Thank you for sharing!

 

And I kinda agree with the sentiment of "Why are space bacteria and freezing cold piercing my environmental suit?"; I just chalked it up to "dumb video game logic" and left it at that. If they forced players to remove their suits on alien planets (which would be a whole kind of other boneheaded move - see Alien: Covenant) then these hazards would make much more sense. Again, if you just shrug and go "video games!" it's not worth getting worked up over.

[gregaaz]

32 minutes ago, Anhedonia_ said:

Wow, that... huh. A lot of odd or arbitrary-seeming design decisions suddenly make a lot more sense now, and they were staring me in the face the whole time. Thank you for sharing!

 

And I kinda agree with the sentiment of "Why are space bacteria and freezing cold piercing my environmental suit?"; I just chalked it up to "dumb video game logic" and left it at that. If they forced players to remove their suits on alien planets (which would be a whole kind of other boneheaded move - see Alien: Covenant) then these hazards would make much more sense. Again, if you just shrug and go "video games!" it's not worth getting worked up over.

 

Yeah, I remember reading that Reddit essay when it first dropped. It entirely adds up with my own observations. While I haven't been able to crack open the master files and really analyze them yet, it looks like the game started with a more sophisticated and feature-rich version of Fallout 4 and then scaled back or cut out a lot of material, probably relatively late in the development cycle. Hopefully the underlying systems are mostly intact, even if unused, and modders will be able to try their own spin on it once the tools are available. Starfield CK is supposed to come out some time next year, so we have a little bit of a wait to contend with however. 

 

Gives me time to 100% the vanilla game first however  

[Miauzi]

Vor 1 Stunde sagte Anhedonia_:

Wow, das... hm. Viele . seltsame oder willkürlich wirkende Designentscheidungen machen jetzt plötzlich viel mehr Sinn, und sie starrten mich die ganze Zeit ins Gesicht Ich danke Ihnen für das Teilen!

 

Und ich stimme einigermaßen mit der Frage überein: „Warum durchdringen Weltraumbakterien und eisige Kälte meinen Umweltanzug?“; Ich habe es einfach der „dummen Videospiellogik“ zugeschrieben und es dabei belassen. Wenn sie die Spieler zwingen würden, auf außerirdischen Planeten ihre Anzüge auszuziehen (was eine ganz andere verrückte Aktion wäre – siehe Alien: Covenant), dann wären diese Gefahren viel sinnvoller. Auch hier gilt: Wenn Sie nur mit den Schultern zucken und „Videospiele“ sagen! Es lohnt sich nicht, sich darüber aufzuregen.

 

You only get the bacteria on moons and planets that have a biosphere - and that's exactly where your spacesuit is "switched off" by the game.

Neither are you supplied with breathing air - nor are you protected from cold or radioactivity or germs.

You wear the spacesuit (with the helmet) only "optically" - only the resistances necessary for combat are activated.

 

 

[Anhedonia_]

6 hours ago, gregaaz said:

Hopefully the underlying systems are mostly intact, even if unused

 

My completely unsourced speculation: They wanted to lean harder on the survival aspect this time - with limited gas, long-term outposts on hostile worlds, etc. - but playtests went poorly. Either it turned into an unfun slog, or the playtesters hated the mechanics in principle, or both. So Bethesda tore out most of the mechanical underpinnings and made it entirely optional or unnecessary.

 

However, if the pattern from Skyrim and Fallout 4 holds true, Bethesda will add a survival mode into the game at a later date that will re-enable (and with player feedback, hopefully refine) the dormant mechanics. Players (like myself) that enjoy survival mechanics will be able to play Bethesda's original vision, and everyone who hates that sort of thing can just ignore the option.

 

It'll be interesting to see if modders beat them to the punch, or if they release survival mode ahead of the SDK.

 

6 hours ago, Miauzi said:

You only get the bacteria on moons and planets that have a biosphere - and that's exactly where your spacesuit is "switched off" by the game.

 

All Bethesda had to do was toggle the suit "off" when you landed on a planet with a biosphere and it would make more sense. (Then again, the game is notoriously bad with informing the player about mechanics anyway, so this was probably the less confusing of the two options.)

[Tam]

Spacesuits visually at least seem to be bulky and cumbersome, I kinda find myself sometimes wishing they were more like power armor from FO4 (actual suits that you get in and out of with limited resources) rather than clothing you click on and off.  Thus in hostile environments or assaults you'd jump into the power armor and when exploring a habitable planet with plenty of O2 and no obvious hazzards you wouldn't neccessarilly bother.

[Miauzi]

Vor 2 Stunden sagte Tam:

Raumanzüge wirken zumindest optisch sperrig und unhandlich. Manchmal wünsche ich mir, sie wären eher Powerrüstungen von FO4 (echte Anzüge, die man mit begrenzten Mitteln an- und ausziehen kann) und nicht Kleidung, die man an- und ausziehen kann. So würden Sie in feindlichen Umgebungen oder bei Angriffen in die Powerrüstung springen, und wenn Sie einen bewohnbaren Planeten mit viel O2 und ohne offensichtliche Gefahren erkunden, würden Sie sich nicht unbedingt darum kümmern.

 

Many inhabited planets have a biosphere with a variety of plants and animals.

Go to a level 40 planet at level 20 ... and approach a herd of herbivores. Even then it can be over for your avatar very quickly - not even the top predators have to hunt you down.

?

 

[isThink]

On 9/26/2023 at 11:05 AM, Tam said:

Spacesuits visually at least seem to be bulky and cumbersome, I kinda find myself sometimes wishing they were more like power armor from FO4 (actual suits that you get in and out of with limited resources) rather than clothing you click on and off.  Thus in hostile environments or assaults you'd jump into the power armor and when exploring a habitable planet with plenty of O2 and no obvious hazzards you wouldn't neccessarilly bother.

broooooo imagine flying into a combat zone firing off your ships guns to suppress then instead of teleporting outside your ship, you get up, go into your cargo hold and get into the power armor

oooo ooo what if you could make your ship hover and then when you get into the power armor you jump out and land straight into the combat zone, that sounds cool as heckl