Sex Mod Framework - Development Discussion

[Allnarta]

37 minutes ago, Herr_Cabal said:

a 5 dollar creation needs 800 unique DLs to hit that point

 

Spacers overhaul has 4.600 bookmarks on consoles; from my experience, when I posted a single mod on "creations" (free of course, and it's hosted on Nexus; I deleted it from "creations" after opting out also), amount of downloads (which is visible, but only "creator" can see it) is slightly more than bookmarks. So, we're getting 5 dollar (a bit more; tiers a bit more expensive than exact dollars) creation was downloaded - i.e. buyed -  approximately 5 000 times or more on consoles. And this is very new "creation".

 

Ugly "vault-tec" wasco skin has 320 bookmarks on consoles, so... About 400 people paid a bit more than two bucks for it.

 

Black vasco skin (5 minutes work in paint) has 579 bookmarks; so, more than 600 people paid for it.

You can imagine that for "creations" that were posted earlier, it can be 10 000, 20 000, 50 000+ unique buys. Because yup, download = someone paid for it.

You people are always greatly underdestimate consoles scales when you talk about numbers.

[Herr_Cabal]

2 hours ago, Allnarta said:

 

Spacers overhaul has 4.600 bookmarks on consoles; from my experience, when I posted a single mod on "creations" (free of course, and it's hosted on Nexus; I deleted it from "creations" after opting out also), amount of downloads (which is visible, but only "creator" can see it) is slightly more than bookmarks. So, we're getting 5 dollar (a bit more; tiers a bit more expensive than exact dollars) creation was downloaded - i.e. buyed -  approximately 5 000 times or more on consoles. And this is very new "creation".

 

Ugly "vault-tec" wasco skin has 320 bookmarks on consoles, so... About 400 people paid a bit more than two bucks for it.

 

Black vasco skin (5 minutes work in paint) has 579 bookmarks; so, more than 600 people paid for it.

You can imagine that for "creations" that were posted earlier, it can be 10 000, 20 000, 50 000+ unique buys. Because yup, download = someone paid for it.

You people are always greatly underdestimate consoles scales when you talk about numbers.

Can you get me the exact month for spacers overhaul or was it this September? I wish Beth had an online Creation database that I didn't need to log in for so I could check without having to install anything. If it can keep those 4k a month while being a 5 dollar mod (I'm not actually saying the straight up price in a mod, I know it's sorted by credits and the smallest portion of credits you can buy is 500 4.99, so to keep the math simple since the debate is mainly on the point of feasibility for income I am just operating under the false assumption that every mod is 500 credits. Some are significantly cheaper, requiring way more unique DLs to pay to mod fulltime) that's pretty impressive numbers, and more than enough to justify them working with CC but that requires them to maintain a consistent 4k unique DLs (remember, a single download is only paid for once unlike an optional Patreon subscription) per month to keep that pay rate. Beyond that the math we're using here is just to get to the first threshold of "thousands" of dollars you brought up in your reply, not an actual benchmark for how much it would cost a modder to develop fulltime. Cheapest state to live in still requires about 2.5k a month in regular income to afford cost of living. Can't speak for international, but I'm guessing its the same boat relative to pay.

 

This means they need to make Bethesda 10 THOUSAND dollars a month before Bethesda will be paying them living wages to live in the 10-20 cheapest states to live in (they need to make Bethesda twice that to live in the most expensive), working with the 500 cred assumption for math simplicity that would be 2000 unique DLs a month, or 24,000 unique DLs a year. I maintain my point that the system is hopelessly more exploitative than Patreon, while not competing in consumer value. I can't recall ManlyMarco's patron count which is more related to the topic at hand, but I used to follow a flash game dev that was super small time who had 10k patrons with a minimum bar to entry being 1 dollar. To CCs credit, this developer had to have the outreach to reach way more players to get 10k patrons than a mod would need to get 10k downloads, since for the mod payment is price of entry while for the Patreon its an optional decision for people who liked the free products the developer had out there. However, to patreon's credit, this developer made so much money that they were able to transition from a flash developing hobbyist on the Newgrounds scene to a full fledged steam dev with a game or two released. I'm not saying such a transformation is impossible to someone trying to sustain themselves on the Creation Club pipeline, but I can't imagine its as easy to afford a full game's development cycle as well as to foster the kind of community who would be keeping their eyes out for your first official release to make sure it's successful. 

 

Both the other two creations you mention that actually cost money are below the 800 threshold and I still don't have the upload date. I can't speak for any of the numbers you are telling me to imagine.

 

You overestimate how much money people (particularly children with their parents credit cards) on console have to spend. But still these console numbers makes sense. Remember these console players didn't pay for the game, they pay 20 dollars a month to play this and other games on subscription, so technically depending on if you want to count the subscription fee they could buy 69.98 dollars worth of creation content and still spend less on starfield than most people on PC did (yeah gamepass is on PC but people who use gamepass on PC need to voluntarily remove themselves from the gene pool). I got it through G2A so I spent 50 something (day before release too, that's how you knew this was gonna be hilarious at launch), but still expensive enough that I don't want to spend anymore on it unless the DLC completely evolves the game and doesn't just add literally one purple planet. So I can understand why console sales for microtransanctions are high, but I also think this further proves the point that independent free modding isn't at risk. Sales performance like this seems to only be possible in the console environment whose modding scene even before the creation club was always way more stale that what is on PC.

Edited September 11, 2024 by Herr_Cabal
specifications. prolly gonna edit 50 times to OCD typos.

[Allnarta]

I... Genuinely didn't even read half of this. I don't understand what are you trying to tell by literally writing an essae.

 

"Verified creations" are killing core purpose of a modding - fun, soul, community, sharing and joy; just like any monetization of things that were originally not for money. I don't understand what's hard to realize here.

 

I did tell myself to not post here anymore because it's absolutely pointless, now I see literal novels written for absolutely nothing. This time I'm out for good.

Have a nice day.

[Herr_Cabal]

3 minutes ago, Allnarta said:

I... Genuinely didn't even read half of this. I don't understand what are you trying to tell by literally writing an essae.

 

"Verified creations" are killing core purpose of a modding - fun, soul, community, sharing and joy; just like any monetization of things that were originally not for money. I don't understand what's hard to realize here.

 

I did tell myself to not post here anymore because it's absolutely pointless, now I see literal novels written for absolutely nothing. This time I'm out for good.

Have a nice day.

I think there's a lot more here you don't understand than you're letting on seeing as half your replies to me read like a defense of the concept and yet you accuse us all of being the morons coming to Beth's side.

 

Something tells me you're gonna keep posting here.

 

😀

[SleepyNinja]

You know after everything is said and done, I can't wait to fuck Andreja and Sarah senselessly so I can stop reading these goonish posts lmao, download the damn file, beat my meat and call it a day. I admit I'm no better but at least I try to remain positive despite everything wrong about this game.

[Djlegends]

9 hours ago, Herr_Cabal said:

I think there's a lot more here you don't understand than you're letting on seeing as half your replies to me read like a defense of the concept and yet you accuse us all of being the morons coming to Beth's side.

 

Something tells me you're gonna keep posting here.

 

😀

lmfao

[Ashal]

I'm only going to say this once: This is not a thread for discussing drama around the creation club, the CK, or Bethesda itself. It's unrelated to a framework's development plans; take it elsewhere. A framework mod will be developed independently and separately from any creation club, so it has zero bearing on this mod's development or any current plans. Any continued back-and-forth on it will be removed from this thread going forward to keep things on track.

[knots1353]

On 9/7/2024 at 8:01 PM, Djlegends said:

have you not seen this yet?
https://www.nexusmods.com/starfield/mods/10896

 

No, and thank you very much for pointing it out -- I've been waiting to see that functionality in SFSE since the beginning of the year, and had put SF modding aside for a bit.  And while I can and will work on some of the modding ideas I have using it, and it would be a good base for a sex framework since it has the remaining bits of necessary functionality, it doesn't quite work for the big project I'd been hoping to do.   For that, I'd need to probably do my own DLL plugin variation on the CassiopeiaEventManager.

 

 

On 9/7/2024 at 11:01 PM, Snapdragon_ said:

 

This has been possible since around the end of July, when my pull request was merged into the CommonLibSF repo. (For anyone who might not know, a pull request is basically merging code into a project.)

 

Right now, there aren't really any technical limitations preventing sex mods. It's just a matter of whether or not anyone wants to make a sex mod & animations. Personally I'm waiting for a better female body mod before investing time in animating. CRT and VBB are good, but not customizable like CBBE. I know of at least one person working on a customizable body mod, which utilizes CharGenMenu morphs instead of BodySlide.

 

As noted above, I'd been looking for this in SFSE, not elsewhere.    I haven't been paying much attention to CommonLibSF at all since I first looked at it, because of it's licensing.   Unfortunately, it uses GPL, unlike it's predecessor which was MIT license.   Don't get me wrong, I believe strongly in open source code -- I've released a lot of code going back to the 1980s in source form, mostly with a simple copyright notice with a statement that anyone can use it for any reason with attribution - much like the Creative Commons CC-BY license.   I've also use MIT license for a lot.   I just dislike GPL because that means everyone who builds on something I put out there has to use GPL too.

 

But you've given me something to think about, at least, and thank you very much for writing that code -- I'll start digging into what I can do with it soon.
 

 

[Djlegends]

11 hours ago, knots1353 said:

 

No, and thank you very much for pointing it out -- I've been waiting to see that functionality in SFSE since the beginning of the year, and had put SF modding aside for a bit.  And while I can and will work on some of the modding ideas I have using it, and it would be a good base for a sex framework since it has the remaining bits of necessary functionality, it doesn't quite work for the big project I'd been hoping to do.   For that, I'd need to probably do my own DLL plugin variation on the CassiopeiaEventManager.

 

 

 

As noted above, I'd been looking for this in SFSE, not elsewhere.    I haven't been paying much attention to CommonLibSF at all since I first looked at it, because of it's licensing.   Unfortunately, it uses GPL, unlike it's predecessor which was MIT license.   Don't get me wrong, I believe strongly in open source code -- I've released a lot of code going back to the 1980s in source form, mostly with a simple copyright notice with a statement that anyone can use it for any reason with attribution - much like the Creative Commons CC-BY license.   I've also use MIT license for a lot.   I just dislike GPL because that means everyone who builds on something I put out there has to use GPL too.

 

But you've given me something to think about, at least, and thank you very much for writing that code -- I'll start digging into what I can do with it soon.
 

 

we wish you luck!

[Snapdragon_]

On 9/13/2024 at 2:09 PM, knots1353 said:

 

No, and thank you very much for pointing it out -- I've been waiting to see that functionality in SFSE since the beginning of the year, and had put SF modding aside for a bit.  And while I can and will work on some of the modding ideas I have using it, and it would be a good base for a sex framework since it has the remaining bits of necessary functionality, it doesn't quite work for the big project I'd been hoping to do.   For that, I'd need to probably do my own DLL plugin variation on the CassiopeiaEventManager.

 

 

 

As noted above, I'd been looking for this in SFSE, not elsewhere.    I haven't been paying much attention to CommonLibSF at all since I first looked at it, because of it's licensing.   Unfortunately, it uses GPL, unlike it's predecessor which was MIT license.   Don't get me wrong, I believe strongly in open source code -- I've released a lot of code going back to the 1980s in source form, mostly with a simple copyright notice with a statement that anyone can use it for any reason with attribution - much like the Creative Commons CC-BY license.   I've also use MIT license for a lot.   I just dislike GPL because that means everyone who builds on something I put out there has to use GPL too.

 

But you've given me something to think about, at least, and thank you very much for writing that code -- I'll start digging into what I can do with it soon.
 

 

 

Ah, that's understandable. Nonetheless, it's always great having more open-source devs contributing to the Starfield community, I look forward to seeing what you make!

[Neroth654]

Hi there, do you think it would be possible to include something like sexlab defeat in the framework ? I'm following this very closely, i'm impatient to see that framework emerging Starfield Highly needs it.

 

Thank you @Ashal to work on this framework.

[Gray User]

On 9/17/2024 at 8:51 AM, Neroth654 said:

Hi there, do you think it would be possible to include something like sexlab defeat in the framework ? I'm following this very closely, i'm impatient to see that framework emerging Starfield Highly needs it.

 

Thank you @Ashal to work on this framework.

 

I don't know about real framework, that will come from someone with technique. But any framework can maybe be triggered by health damage like in defeat. 

 

I am working on making a mod to load NAF animations based on (1) dialogue/scenes (con) or (2) health damage (dubcon/noncon). It will be very limited, but I am hoping to have something in the next month or so. Still in proof of concept, so no promises yet.

 

Unless someone who has technique makes a real one. 

[zaira]

On 9/19/2024 at 7:42 AM, Gray User said:

NAF animations

I have already started to integrate NAF into a mod.

I like NAF's very lean interface - it's basic concepts (controlling phases, syncing actors) make scene development pretty easy.

This is something where all Skyrim animation frameworks totally fail in my opinion. In order to serve use cases of everybody, the Skyrim frameworks became fat and unhandy.

 

Starfield put much more attention onto the story board, what I appreciate a lot. The amount of necessary papyrus code is reduced by factors.

This is how I want to create sex scenes: visually on a story board where the animation phases and attributes like sound effects and facial expressions are controlled by scene phases.

Edited September 20, 2024 by zaira

[zaira]

On 9/11/2024 at 1:01 PM, Allnarta said:

Ugly "vault-tec" wasco skin has 320 bookmarks on consoles, so... About 400 people paid a bit more than two bucks for it.

Where a cow grazes, a farmer is not far away.

[HANNAN DOVAH]

Hello guys, how is the mod development, out yet?

[Guest]

On 9/10/2024 at 3:02 AM, Ashal said:

I still plan on developing it, but I consider the project on hold for now.

 

Frankly, I found Starfield itself rather dull, which has killed much of my motivation. I'm hoping the mod scene for the game matures some more and the DLC brings the interest back to the game in a way that helps motivate the project again. I'll get back to it, but I'm just focusing on other things in the meantime.

You is the only person who can revive this game to be honest and make it worth. 
 

[Mussel]

Have you noticed this feature?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gkfGY3mjyto

 

[Un4n8]

Welp. DLC Bombed... I take it that will only cause the hold on the framework development continue as this game drifts toward a dead future. The potential in this game lies in mods that can make the game something other than what it is... And honestly, I Don't think it'll get any better on Bethesda's side. So I guess all we can do is wait and see. But it's really a shame to know that the interest has died so much.

[mikey7979]

On 9/9/2024 at 7:02 PM, Ashal said:

I still plan on developing it, but I consider the project on hold for now.

 

Frankly, I found Starfield itself rather dull, which has killed much of my motivation. I'm hoping the mod scene for the game matures some more and the DLC brings the interest back to the game in a way that helps motivate the project again. I'll get back to it, but I'm just focusing on other things in the meantime.

 

Frankly, this comment really disappoints me.........I realize that I am bad mouthing one of the Loverslab Mesiah's here.........But when exactly did you have this sudden revelation???? Based on your comment it had nothing to do with the CK or any of the issues related to the CK but instead it was about Starfield being an uninspiring game which by the way has been out for over a year now.......... Glad you finally let us in on your lack of enthusiasm with regards to Starfield but everybody here has been holding their proverbial breath and waiting for some news about the status of this functionality.

 

Don't get me wrong your work in Skyrim is LENGENDARY!!!!

 

At least now maybe some other modders that were hesitant to go up against one of the GAWDs of Loverlab will now feel motivated to pursue their own ideas about how to bring this functionality to life.

 

Please do us all a favor and either shit or get off the pot.........just saying that this is On Hold is just hurting your reputation and thoroughly disgusting a lot of us.

[Zeee3eee]

22 minutes ago, mikey7979 said:

 

Frankly, this comment really disappoints me.........I realize that I am bad mouthing one of the Loverslab Mesiah's here.........But when exactly did you have this sudden revelation???? Based on your comment it had nothing to do with the CK or any of the issues related to the CK but instead it was about Starfield being an uninspiring game which by the way has been out for over a year now.......... Glad you finally let us in on your lack of enthusiasm with regards to Starfield but everybody here has been holding their proverbial breath and waiting for some news about the status of this functionality.

 

Don't get me wrong your work in Skyrim is LENGENDARY!!!!

 

At least now maybe some other modders that were hesitant to go up against one of the GAWDs of Loverlab will now feel motivated to pursue their own ideas about how to bring this functionality to life.

 

Please do us all a favor and either shit or get off the pot.........just saying that this is On Hold is just hurting your reputation and thoroughly disgusting a lot of us.

Or they can do what they like and hold thier own opinions on things. People are allowed to lose interest, motivation, or delay their own mods. Honestly, it just sounds like a healthy and responsible thing to do if there is no motivation. I would also love to see the framework developed, I think the future of the game depends on modders of Ashal's calibre and the great work they do. I don't care about the base game, it's a sandbox, a playground for modders to create and explore their interests and passions. I wouldn't want someone to slave away on some chore project, take your time Ashal and good luck.

[Ashal]

8 hours ago, mikey7979 said:

 

Frankly, this comment really disappoints me.........I realize that I am bad mouthing one of the Loverslab Mesiah's here.........But when exactly did you have this sudden revelation???? Based on your comment it had nothing to do with the CK or any of the issues related to the CK but instead it was about Starfield being an uninspiring game which by the way has been out for over a year now.......... Glad you finally let us in on your lack of enthusiasm with regards to Starfield but everybody here has been holding their proverbial breath and waiting for some news about the status of this functionality.

 

Don't get me wrong your work in Skyrim is LENGENDARY!!!!

 

At least now maybe some other modders that were hesitant to go up against one of the GAWDs of Loverlab will now feel motivated to pursue their own ideas about how to bring this functionality to life.

 

Please do us all a favor and either shit or get off the pot.........just saying that this is On Hold is just hurting your reputation and thoroughly disgusting a lot of us.

 

 

And what do you think I'm supposedly holding up with my supposed ill-intentioned hesitance? This isn't even the first time I've mentioned publically that I'm unenthused by Starfield; this isn't news.

 

I'm not preventing access to anything. I'm not blocking anybody from anything. This thread is just to declare my interest in such a project and collect potentially relevant info, which it continues to do successfully. If somebody else wants to use all the info in this thread to make their own Starfield sex mod while I'm hesitant over my own, fucking awesome; good for them. I 100% wish them the best. If somebody wants to make an adult mod for Starfield and they are capable of doing so, my thread here is NOT stopping them in any way. And I honestly hope serves to help them on their way more than anything.

 

And it's not just the game dullness that's delayed my progress. I've been waiting for CK and additional useful mods to make a final 100% choice for what I'm going to do, and the situation with the CK, documentation, and other mods continues to change and evolve. (as do my feelings on it all.)

 

Starfield sex mods may or may not happen someday. And probably will one way or another. I'm not stopping anybody from giving it a go with my hesitance. For all the "legendary" work you say I did on Skyrim, that didn't stop somebody from creating OSA/OStim afterward. I wasn't "shitting on the pot" for them, as you put it.  If another modder wants to give Starfield sex mods a go, they have always been welcome to it and shouldn't let me stop them. I've already privately talked to one promising person about our individual plans for such a mod, so it's not like I'm the only game in town.

 

At the end of the day, modding is at its best when the community collaborates. I'm not, nor will I ever stand in the way of that.

 

[snowman123321]

It's really too bad. The textures, details, characters, and items of this game are all great. It's perfect for an adult mod. Although some people say this game is boring, with the adult mod, I feel like it will change a lot. Fallout 4 can have these, why can’t the upgraded Space Fallout 4 have them?

[Trykz]

4 hours ago, snowman123321 said:

It's really too bad. The textures, details, characters, and items of this game are all great. It's perfect for an adult mod. Although some people say this game is boring, with the adult mod, I feel like it will change a lot. Fallout 4 can have these, why can’t the upgraded Space Fallout 4 have them?

 

The bottom line is, Bethesda really fucked up with Starfield.

 

I mean, a lot of the drama around the release of the CK and how they went about the whole verified creators thing

was sheer stupidity. Like it or not, Bethesda's games are "adult modding playgrounds". And that's the single biggest

draw to them. They should have stuck to what they said about being MORE modder friendly with Starfield. Had they

stuck to their word, Starfield would likely be on the level of Skyrim or Fallout 4 by now.

 

Starfield is a good game. But it isn't "great". It could be, but it simply isn't. Once you run through everything, including

the DLC, you're left with little to do apart from outpost building and resource gathering.

 

With an adult framework on the level of SexLab, I suspect a number of adult modders would jump onto Starfield. But the

fact is, modding Starfield isn't as "friendly" as Bethesda promised it would be.

[mikey7979]

7 hours ago, Ashal said:

 

 

And what do you think I'm supposedly holding up with my supposed ill-intentioned hesitance? This isn't even the first time I've mentioned publically that I'm unenthused by Starfield; this isn't news.

 

I'm not preventing access to anything. I'm not blocking anybody from anything. This thread is just to declare my interest in such a project and collect potentially relevant info, which it continues to do successfully. If somebody else wants to use all the info in this thread to make their own Starfield sex mod while I'm hesitant over my own, fucking awesome; good for them. I 100% wish them the best. If somebody wants to make an adult mod for Starfield and they are capable of doing so, my thread here is NOT stopping them in any way. And I honestly hope serves to help them on their way more than anything.

 

And it's not just the game dullness that's delayed my progress. I've been waiting for CK and additional useful mods to make a final 100% choice for what I'm going to do, and the situation with the CK, documentation, and other mods continues to change and evolve. (as do my feelings on it all.)

 

Starfield sex mods may or may not happen someday. And probably will one way or another. I'm not stopping anybody from giving it a go with my hesitance. For all the "legendary" work you say I did on Skyrim, that didn't stop somebody from creating OSA/OStim afterward. I wasn't "shitting on the pot" for them, as you put it.  If another modder wants to give Starfield sex mods a go, they have always been welcome to it and shouldn't let me stop them. I've already privately talked to one promising person about our individual plans for such a mod, so it's not like I'm the only game in town.

 

At the end of the day, modding is at its best when the community collaborates. I'm not, nor will I ever stand in the way of that.

 

 

Wow!!! The great Ashal speaks and not only that but their feathers are just a little frazzled over some constructive criticism...........Whether you want to believe it or not.........your name, reputation and influence in the sex modding genre is well known and very much appreciated but it inhibits others from taking a stab at something because they do not want to step on the master............

 

All that I was trying to say is that a lack of inspiration is not a valid reason to put a mod on hold........I am glad to find out that there are others out there that are now willing to take the ball and run with it...........maybe.......just maybe if there was a little bit more communication out there this "new idea" would have helped sooner than than later.

 

With regards to your example of OSA/OSTIM.........it was sometime in early 2018 that it was released which was seven years after Skyrim was released and probably would not have happen if you had had the same lack of enthusiasm for Skyrim as you do Starfield. Again try not to take this personally this is only my opinion and this will be my last comment on this subject.

 

[Mussel]

I really hate this current era of influencers and hive thinking.