LE vs SE

[Allen Harris]

I've been wondering something- since SE is newer than LE, and LE isn't even officially sold anymore,  why do so many mod developers target LE only, or target it first?

[Zaflis]

Because LE mod is easier to convert to SE mod compared to SE mod down to LE. Many mod developers want to support both versions so it's better to use LE in that case.

[Scrab]

16 minutes ago, Zaflis said:

Because LE mod is easier to convert to SE mod compared to SE mod down to LE. Many mod developers want to support both versions so it's better to use LE in that case.

 

Also consider that most authors here started with LE and simply dont see a reason to switch over

 

The only significant reason to go from LE to SE when it comes to adult modding are Arizona Steve's Random Sex NG and Y. Kudasai (Acheron) / SLp+ by myself, everything else is both ways and usually puts LE first

[jc321]

I just use cathederal Asset which seems really simple to convert LE mod to SE .. Not saying it's 100% perfect but don't seem to have too many issues with alot of the older LE mods. 

 

Only thing I miss from LE or never seem to get working is the moving chains on leg cuffs. Seem to be static in SE although I believe I've seen it work about once. 

[FauxFurry]

56 minutes ago, jc321 said:

I just use cathederal Asset which seems really simple to convert LE mod to SE .. Not saying it's 100% perfect but don't seem to have too many issues with alot of the older LE mods. 

 

Only thing I miss from LE or never seem to get working is the moving chains on leg cuffs. Seem to be static in SE although I believe I've seen it work about once. 

If the chains are made for Special Edition's Faster-SMP or CBPC, they should work without issue just like the other CBPC equipment.

[Karkhel]

Also last time I checked LE just has more downloads (on nexus) so more active players at least the ones that mod the game. As a player I'm still waiting for some mod equivalents or some LE mods to work better on SE before ever thinking about moving.

[Allen Harris]

2 hours ago, Zaflis said:

Because LE mod is easier to convert to SE mod compared to SE mod down to LE. Many mod developers want to support both versions so it's better to use LE in that case.

Aaahhhhhh...that makes sense!

[Hex Bolt]

3 hours ago, Allen Harris said:

why do so many mod developers target LE only, or target it first?

 

2 hours ago, Scrab said:

Also consider that most authors here started with LE and simply dont see a reason to switch over

 

Adding to Scrab's point. mod developers are people who like to tinker.  I had a lot of custom changes when SE came along, and by the time enough mods had been ported to SE to make using it worthwhile, I had too much invested in LE.  I'm careful about not adding performance hogging content to my game, so my LE game is fast and very stable.  I have no need to switch, and I'd lose my custom modifications if I did.

 

By contrast, a player who has no custom changes can just download the SE versions of the mods he was using on LE and be done.

 

As Zaflis mentioned, it's easier to port from LE to SE than the other direction, and when writing scripts, a developer on LE doesn't have to worry about accidentally using an SE-only function.  It's important to me to not leave anyone out.  The things I publish work on any game version.

 

My situation probably applies to many of the tinkerers out there, so they represent a disproportionate fraction of players who stay on LE. 

Edited February 24, 2023 by HexBolt8

[belegost]

3 hours ago, Allen Harris said:

LE isn't even officially sold anymore

 

Not entirely true. It's still being sold on Steam. It's just been hidden from store front, but if you have direct link, you can still purchase it.

Edited February 24, 2023 by belegost

[fred200]

Major difference between LE and SE: LE uses a 32 bit engine and 32 bit DLLs.

SE uses a 64 bit engine and 64 bit DLLs.

SE is much less likely to have memory related problems because of this.

Every thing else is minor, like some NIF and HKX changes. These are easily converted.

To anyone new coming in - my advice would be to go SE and never look back.

Last note: AE is just a version of SE. Same 64 bit engine, with version related changes.

Edited February 24, 2023 by fred200

[Hex Bolt]

36 minutes ago, fred200 said:

Major difference between LE and SE....

I agree with everything you said.  However, the OP's question was not about the differences between the versions or which one is better, but "why do so many mod developers target LE only, or target it first?"  There are plenty of discussions on this site about which is better (obviously, that's SE).  I only bothered to reply here because this time the question was different.  It's my hope that this discussion can stay on topic and distinguish itself from all the others.

[Fotogen]

5 hours ago, Allen Harris said:

I've been wondering something- since SE is newer than LE, and LE isn't even officially sold anymore,  why do so many mod developers target LE only, or target it first?

Maybe you should be wondering if "many mod developers target LE only, or target it first" is actually true or false and then wonder "why"?

[FauxFurry]

3 minutes ago, Fotogen said:

Maybe you should be wondering if "many mod developers target LE only, or target it first" is actually true or false and then wonder "why"?

That question can be answered by looking at the Nexus pages for both and seeing which one has had more individual files added to it than the other. The New section, Recent Activity section as well as the Last Updated can show which ones had files uploaded or updated of late.

 

Some mods (such as CBP-C, Faster HDT-SMP) will not be backported because there is already something similar enough for LE while others depend on the 64-bit engine so the mod makers just refuse to backport the mods. The increasing number of mods bearing the LE Backport notice is a bit of a hint (though there are plenty of mods without the label that are ports of older SE mods nonetheless).

[Darkpig]

5 hours ago, Karkhel said:

Also last time I checked LE just has more downloads (on nexus) so more active players at least the ones that mod the game. As a player I'm still waiting for some mod equivalents or some LE mods to work better on SE before ever thinking about moving.

I think the downloads for SE surpassed LE recently but LE still has more mods.

[Heroine HoneyCrotch]

42 minutes ago, Darkpig said:

I think the downloads for SE surpassed LE recently

Over on nexus its not even close. SE dl's are ten fold

[Allen Harris]

32 minutes ago, Heroine HoneyCrotch said:

Over on nexus its not even close. SE dl's are ten fold

Yeh but those half prudes aren't as fun ?

[Allen Harris]

3 hours ago, Fotogen said:

Maybe you should be wondering if "many mod developers target LE only, or target it first" is actually true or false and then wonder "why"?

It's entirely possible that I'm wrong about that; I haven't done a qualitative analysis. I've just noticed that the downloads I've focused on for a while (which are Devious Devices heavy) largely seem to target LE first.

It's also possible that I have a "shit I just recently downloaded" bias ?

[mircislav]

Replying as a plain user of mods (I know nothing of making mods) - I never resolved falling trough the ground in LE and that was driving me crazy so finally I went back to SE and it looks like I'm gonna stay with it. It's only pity that some nice mods for LE never got finished or being well ported to SE... and CDT's are completely gone (on the same old hardware (Acer Gladiator G3600-i7 2700 with GF 1050 Ti).

[Fotogen]

7 hours ago, Allen Harris said:

I've just noticed that the downloads I've focused on for a while (which are Devious Devices heavy) largely seem to target LE first

Tools.

 

I think, that tools used for making meshes and animations, by default, spit out files that are "LE".

 

Many (most?) tools for modding don't care which version of Skyrim you have or are a bit old and make stuff for what is now called Skyrim LE. And then if you want your mod to also work on SE, you use converters.

 

By the way:

- Mods that have only quests and scripts don't need conversion. They work "as is" on LE and SE.

- Mods that have mesh(armor) or animations need to be converted. There is a simple to use tool for this. Push a button and its done. Anyone can use it.

- Mods that have binary SKSE based .dll need manual conversion. This is "hardcore" stuff. Can't be done automaticaly. There is not alot of mods like that.

 

So only SKSE based mods need to be targeted to specific Skyrim version.

[Allen Harris]

52 minutes ago, Fotogen said:

Tools.

 

I think, that tools used for making meshes and animations, by default, spit out files that are "LE".

 

Many (most?) tools for modding don't care which version of Skyrim you have or are a bit old and make stuff for what is now called Skyrim LE. And then if you want your mod to also work on SE, you use converters.

 

By the way:

- Mods that have only quests and scripts don't need conversion. They work "as is" on LE and SE.

- Mods that have mesh(armor) or animations need to be converted. There is a simple to use tool for this. Push a button and its done. Anyone can use it.

- Mods that have binary SKSE based .dll need manual conversion. This is "hardcore" stuff. Can't be done automaticaly. There is not alot of mods like that.

 

So only SKSE based mods need to be targeted to specific Skyrim version.

That's a good point too, thanks!

[Karkhel]

I also know some mods are supposedly not portable in their current state and would have to be remade, one such example is supposedly SexLab Disparity which for me is a must have mod, actually unplayable lewd skyrim without it, never seen equivalent of that mod on SE.

[t.ara]

If you want to code questmods you can do that in a game of your choice. Easy and not the same in both games-but possible to do it inside of SSE alone and also to do that in SLE alone.

SSE´s CK is more faster after a TUNING and then it is very solid showing the same mistakes which are also inside of SLE (OLDRIM).

 

SMP is nearly compatible with each other, depending on the version you take as the SSE-game. The support of SMP is inside of oldrim little more better-racemenu shows the SMP-physics in active-mode, so you can edit your character while SMP is still active-inside of SSE this is not possible. HDT-PE is only available inside of SLE and so the stuff which has been mentioned like the connected chains will never work inside of SSE because it is technically missing. Changing those assets to become an SMP object is only possible for such objects, which have an opened bone-end because there´s no task for such a link-to-link- of bones meeting with each other inside of SMP-physics. That sort of physics is much more primitive and made for CLOTHING/HAIRS, robes and such like. HDT-PE is slow when it comes to motion/walking and running/juming chararcters: it suddenly is unconnecting and not working in real-time probably caused on it´s way of computing the bone-behavior with a very complex havok-based-code. It is like SMP and other physic-mods not a professional integrated "add-on". The strength of it is to use it on furniture-restraints-stuff, when the character is in an idle-animation, where such chains mostly make sense. Aside from that can  ankle chains work as soon the character is slowed down by a suiting framework-in that case the assets can be computed via the havok-code-commands quite in time. As the games do both use havok-physics, such assets can be created also by using the game´s havok-engine. For character-skeleton-use this has not been created until now. You can see such stuff at the horse mane and at the horse-tail. Havok also has a cloth physic available which maybe is also working in skyrim.

 

ENB-technology is more forward inside of SSE and it has more options and so the overall graphical impression of SSE can offer more depth of a 3D-realism and the shadow directory is more better (this I can see inside of my games in compare with quite close created ENBs).

 

SSE is not offering (much) more FPS if it is confrontated with similar content. The difference makes about 5-7 fps more with identical ENB use and content. Instead is the memory use of SSE much more better and the loading and dropping content from the ram seems to work more fast and smoother. This headroom together with the graphical improvements so far are mostly the desired features for the people to play with SSE. On top of that was coming a more high resolution-body-model like the CBBE 3Boners or the UUNP-3 boners as well.

By filling SSE up with for example 4K textures and higher resolution-meshes, also this game will once reach it´s engine-clipping and then cause also problems. This only is a question, about which mods are installed at least. Most peaople are talking about a SLE with hundred of mods, doing that by using SSE you will also get similar issures at least, little later, but coming.

 

If you intent to create new content for the game, you need to do that basically with SLE, which has all the nice tools for modding. There´s simply no exporter which basically is able to perform for SSE directly. SO the way is to produce new content by using SLE and then ordinary PORT the stuff (maybe with suiting textures, then) to SSE. Oldrim textures also are working inside of SSE, same is for gamebryo files with collision, with animated content and also the plant- and tree content as well. It´s also possible to create content with own behavior specially for furnitures, which have to be synced to the animation of the character, like we see inside of the sharpening wheel and the blacksmith-markers or the more simpler pole-gates and some other stuff. Bethesda jumped during their game-creation between gamebryo-animated objects and havok-behavior-based gamebryo-files, which are more easy inside of their structure and which are then driven by an own little behavior.

SSE mods do not have a spirit inside of them and I have tested some mods for SSE also inside of SLE, which has been no problem on my side. Animations, if made correctly are working in BOTH games without any conversion because those stuff has the same behavior-engine to work with. The problem only occures, if you start to export the animations into a wrong format for SLE.

 

If you want to create your own meshes/gamebryo-files and more, you need to work with SLE, basically. SSE will be an optional game for you, then. Even in the case if I would have an original converter for SSE, I´d stick to SLE as the basic game because it is more HANDY in some different aspects. It ´s more faster to go into that game (menu-structure is more simple, this all alone spares a lot of time if you start the game some hundred times a day) and I know how stuff has to look like from the overall graphics, which spends this engine to me. If the stuff is looking fine inside of SKYRIM and if it is working there fine, it also will look fine inside of SSE and also work in a same way of quality and, btw. will you have created a very handy and lightweighted product, which is handy inside of SSE as well.

There are existing also some other working tools, which only produce on their output compatible SLE-products and not the SSE-format of gamebryo-files.

 

As consumer only (irritation-caused and named "modder", too), you can use SSE and let SLE behind you, no problem.

 

Happy modding, consuming and creating new content:-)

 

 

 

Edited February 26, 2023 by t.ara