[Outdated] XPMS modified for TBBP

[jacques00]

 

so a TBBP  skeleton can NOT  be used w/ HDT?? That may explain some floating i'm having

You can use a TBBP skeleton and mesh with HDT, you just won't be seeing all the TBBP effects that the TBBP-specific animations have is all. I think HDT only dynamically animates one set of breast bones, but the other set (specific to TBBP) do not get any extra movements, so you don't see the "full" set of movements of the TBBP (in relation to breasts that is). As far as the butt nodes, I'm not too sure--butt movement isn't perfect on HDT, but any kind of movement is heavily based on your skeleton and your mesh (so if the mesh has the butt nodes heavily influenced, then the animations will be very pronounced, glitches and all). Any other nodes that HDT is able to move but is not found in the skeleton will maybe CTD the game or just not show up in game.

 

I'm not sure what you mean about the floating problem, but again, HDT isn't perfect so certain anomalies may happen. If you are using HDT though, jittery animations may be a result of having the "skeleton_female.hkx" in the "data/meshes/actors/character/character assets female" folder still active--either rename, move, or delete that file so the other animation files do not overlay on top and create the jittery effect due to clashes with movement information.

 

As for the mesh and skeleton however, if  your mesh is dependent on the butt nodes, you'll have to have a skeleton that includes butt nodes, otherwise the game will CTD due to missing nodes to reference. Simply removing the butt nodes on the skeleton is a bad idea. You will be better off having the butt bone influences painted out of the mesh, which would require editing the skin weights in a 3D package (but this has already been mentioned).

[Necrokat]

 

I know it's a silly thing to ask but Can you upload a skeleton without butt bones? I am using HDT Physics 7-22 extension and it works perfectly even in sexlab but the problem is in butts. The bounce is jittery and clip through clothing a lot which I don't like. SO please upload a version without butt bones if possible.

 

@Groovtama

Can you write a readme for your skeleton on how to install and which options are must or not? I don't use NMM and never will, I think. 

 

@butt bones

What Vioxsis said, also I don't have major clipping with HDT (7-22) with the skeltons not more or less than with keyed animations before, if you have armors where the body has butt bones attach to but not the overlaying armor you maybe should give the author of the armor a call, sounds more like he missed to attach them to the armor. 

 

@manuall installation (it's equivalent to the default XPMS pack I have just one folder more)

The stuff you need to install is:

- "00 Skeleton Rig"

- One first person skelton from 04,

-- "04 1stSKDefault" is the normal skeleton

-- "04 1stSKJOP" is for The Joy of Perspective 0.9.3

-- "04 1stSKJOPEX" is a quickfix for the horses, (look at my original post everything is described there)

- One skeleton pack from the 10-13 folders

-- Default is default vanilla placement

-- Chesko, is the frostfall skeleton bow and quiver placement

-- LHB, is left hip bolt quiver placement

-- B1HS, one handed swords on back

-- BHD, Dagger on back hip

 

- (if you have no FNIS) "01 NON FNIS patch"

 

Depending what skeletons you choose

If you choose a Chesko variant, install "01 BOLTC"

If you choose a LHB variant, install "01 BOLT"

If you choose a BHD variant, install "02 BHD" so the character grabs the dagger from back hip if you don't already have such an animation

If you choose a B1Hs variant, install "02 B1HS" so the character grabs the sword from back if you don't already have such an animation

 

Groovtama could you point me to your skeleton please?

[Liuli]

It's on page two of this thread, here's the link:

 

http://www.loverslab.com/topic/20027-xpms-modified-for-tbbp-fixes-breasts-too-high-crushed-butt/?p=482300

[RockMic]

[anitman]

By using default XPMS, the character sinks to the ground a little bit when combining the use of ECE, so will this issue still exist in this patch?

[Liuli]

By using default XPMS, the character sinks to the ground a little bit when combining the use of ECE, so will this issue still exist in this patch?

I have no idea, I'm not using ECE. Make a backup of your current skeleton and test it out would be my suggestion. It's based on XPMS 1.9 from XP32's tumblr (linked on page 2 I think) and the version on nexus is 1.81, so it's possible XP32 did some fixes that solve your issue. I haven't seen a change log from 1.81 to 1.9.

[Kalatorni]

I don't know what's the reason, but this version of XPMS shrinks my character a lot. I have used TBBP files + (old version now I guess, 1.4?) XP butt fix + skeleton, but if I upgrade to nexus 1.81 version or this one here, my char loses height.

 

I have tried various combinations but can't seem to locate the culprit file.

 

I have also pondered about using HDT, which means I dont need skeleton_female_hkx file, but it makes me wonder what exactly I'm using then? Many seem to refer to XP skeletons and such (use this, required file etc...)

EDIT
Hum, reverted back, ran FNIS and now it says skeleton female: default (99 bones), male XPMS (229 bones). Now I'm really baffled.

[Liuli]

I don't know what's the reason, but this version of XPMS shrinks my character a lot. I have used TBBP files + (old version now I guess, 1.4?) XP butt fix + skeleton, but if I upgrade to nexus 1.81 version or this one here, my char loses height.

 

I have tried various combinations but can't seem to locate the culprit file.

 

I have also pondered about using HDT, which means I dont need skeleton_female_hkx file, but it makes me wonder what exactly I'm using then? Many seem to refer to XP skeletons and such (use this, required file etc...)

 

EDIT

Hum, reverted back, ran FNIS and now it says skeleton female: default (99 bones), male XPMS (229 bones). Now I'm really baffled.

I'm sorry but I don't manage to follow. Is your character male or female? What race is your character? You have the losing height problem when using just this version of XPMS? All versions of XPMS? Where do you see it happening, as you log in or when some animation starts? It sounds a bit like you are mixing and matching skeleton parts from different sources. I don't recommend using this modified XPMS version with HDT, it's made specifically for TBBP animations and I don't know if any clashing would result from such a combination.

 

The FNIS message seems to suggest you deleted the custom skeleton on the females but not the male one. This modified skeleton comes with the female skeleton copied as a male version as well, because female followers use the male skeleton.

[Groovtama]

By using default XPMS, the character sinks to the ground a little bit when combining the use of ECE, so will this issue still exist in this patch?

 

I don't know what's the reason, but this version of XPMS shrinks my character a lot. I have used TBBP files + (old version now I guess, 1.4?) XP butt fix + skeleton, but if I upgrade to nexus 1.81 version or this one here, my char loses height.

 

I have tried various combinations but can't seem to locate the culprit file.

 

I have also pondered about using HDT, which means I dont need skeleton_female_hkx file, but it makes me wonder what exactly I'm using then? Many seem to refer to XP skeletons and such (use this, required file etc...)

 

EDIT

Hum, reverted back, ran FNIS and now it says skeleton female: default (99 bones), male XPMS (229 bones). Now I'm really baffled.

 

XPMS has custom scales on the nodes which may make your female character shorter, ECE has scales slider some of them (probalby the leg slider) causes with the custom scales that your feet are in the ground.

[Kalatorni]

Well, this is a patchwork, really. Especially with HDT now to take into consideration, I'm off the map when it comes to defining which skeletons I should use. XPMS is mentioned everywhere and in the HDT thread they actually recommed using TBBP-based stuff for new versions (>7-23), including skeleton_female.hkx. TBBP animations work as a "seed" for movements, they say. That's why I thought using this modification would be nice, as it obviously XPMS with TBBP as a point of view.

 

I tested this again.

-Female character, breton (vanilla).

-TBBP-based body with dragonfly's TBBP stuff + animations. XPMS version 1.4 used to fix crushing butt.

 

Installing XPMS modified (1st page + 2nd page versions): character smaller, FNIS shows 210/210 for both genders.
Installing XPMS 1.81 from nexus: exactly the same result.

 

sooo, anything that changes (female) skeleton or skeletonbeast -nif files shrinks my character, derp. Reverting back to old settings solves this.

 

XPMS has custom scales on the nodes which may make your female character shorter,

But I'm using XPMS, 1.4 to 1.81 or 1.9.... and it's a huge difference. Should I make a new character with new XPMS files, I wonder.

 

And of course, bones amount difference in FNIS comes with the HDT, since 7-22 suggests renaming skeleton_female.hkx, and I did that, double-derp.

 

The FNIS message seems to suggest you deleted the custom skeleton on the females but not the male one.

Most important question could be, is it a problem at all, i.e. will it come buggy/glitchy? Hm, newer HDT versions make use of that skeleton file, but those aren't as good as 7-22... darn how complex.

[Groovtama]

Are you sure you are using XPMS 1.4 and not a skeleton that was somewhere included because XPMS 1.4 should be even smaller than 1.8/1.9 by my calculation? I somehow don't know what you did...

The scales are also in since the first XPMS version (1.2) and they don't differ much over the versions.

[Guest]

Can you make a version that has Frostfall's quiver placement?

[xxxvvveee]

I have a question, perhaps someone can help me with it:

 

I just recently figured out how to get joy of perspective(JOP) working with this. When the breast and belly nodes, or player's weight update, no changes are seen when in first person JOP. When you zoom out you can see the changes, whether those nodes grew or shrank, just no updates in first person, they always stay the same.

 

Also when in combat stance I can sort of see into my body through my missing head. . . Do I not have JOP installed correctly or am I going wrong somewhere else.

 

Something tells me JOP doesnt have support for this yet but I figured I would ask and see if anyone knew more about it than I managed to figure out in many hours tonight.

[Liuli]

Can you make a version that has Frostfall's quiver placement?

I based this on XPMS 1.9 which last I checked was only vanilla weapon placements without all the different weapon placement variants, so no.

 

I have a question, perhaps someone can help me with it:

 

I just recently figured out how to get joy of perspective(JOP) working with this. When the breast and belly nodes, or player's weight update, no changes are seen when in first person JOP. When you zoom out you can see the changes, whether those nodes grew or shrank, just no updates in first person, they always stay the same.

 

Also when in combat stance I can sort of see into my body through my missing head. . . Do I not have JOP installed correctly or am I going wrong somewhere else.

 

Something tells me JOP doesnt have support for this yet but I figured I would ask and see if anyone knew more about it than I managed to figure out in many hours tonight.

Groovtama made a different skeleton which fixes similar problems but also supports JOP. Are you using his skeleton from page 2 of this thread? http://www.loverslab.com/topic/20027-xpms-modified-for-tbbp-fixes-breasts-too-high-crushed-butt/?p=482300

[Groovtama]

My pack should have the frostfall quiver stuff and all the variants that normal xp32 also have.

 

Weight maybe isn't working in TJOP with the 1st person mesh only node scaling with skse with the first person flag. You maybe mean some SexLab mods with nodescaling. The last time I watched only Estrus Chaurus and Procreation 1.1a were the only mods which supported node scaling in first person and thus the only ones you will see a change in TJOP.

[bjornk]

Nothing to do with this mod but XPMS 1.81 and ECE together definitely makes my ass look bigger. Adding this mod into the scene doesn't make any difference but disabling XPMS 1.81 (and this mod) fixes the problem. If I'm not mistaken MrTroubleMaker's latest UNPB package comes with an older version of XPMS and it gets along fine with ECE. So it looks like the problem is somewhere between that version and 1.81. I'm going to try the earlier versions of XPMS.

 

Edit: Looks like the problem is with the skeleton*.nif files that come with XPMS. Moving ECE below XPMS in the load order also fixes the problem.

 

[Groovtama]

could you send me the skeleton files you are meaning that working fine, don't see a difference between mrtrobublemaker's butt bones (1.1 and 2.1 file) and the xpms1.9 from here, maybe something to do with the scales and calculating that takes time and I don't want to do that 2 times^^

[bjornk]

Though the difference is quite subtle, I can see it even when I use XPMS on top of vanilla UNP body, without ECE or any other mod. There's definitely a problem with XPMS 1.81.

 

These are the files from MrTroubleMaker's UNPB MTM Bodies and UNP MTM Bodies NMM Installer

 

(http://skyrim.nexusmods.com/mods/20227/)

 

All I can tell is that there's definitely a size difference in both nif's and the hkx's between this and XPMS. NIF files are around 25KB in this where as they are around 60KB in XPMS.

 

 

Edit: Oh, wait a second, FNIS tells me that these are CHSBHC with 107 bones.

 

Nah, looks like the problem is the combination of XPMS (or this mod) and ECE.

 

It's really hard to tell whether or not XPMS has any effect on butt size when used with a non-bbp/tbbp body mesh. When used with a bbp/tbbp body mesh there may be a slight difference, still not too obvious. However, as soon as you enable ECE you get a bigger butt.

 

If you want to reproduce this here's what I have in my load order:

 

1. TroubleMaker's UNPB MTM TBBP body meshes (with CHSBHC skeleton)

2. This mod or the standard XPMS 1.81 (overwrites the skeleton above)

3. ECE 1.2 (I didn't install any of the skeletons that come with it)

 

PS. Found an older version of XPMS (229 bones) in TroubleMaker's UNPB package and I got the same big butt when I used it with ECE.

 

Edit: I think ECE applies its own scaling values on either the skeleton or the body mesh when you load up your game, hence you get the big butt, because the effect sort of looks like the ones you get when you play with shoulder/leg scale settings. So I suppose you might try to revert the body proportions back to default when this happened, but it's still a lot of work.

 

The instructions on the first page states that you don't need Realistic Ragdoll & Force, but if you don't install and use Realistic Ragdoll & Force along with this mod or XPMS, you won't be able to lift/drag dead bodies.

 

 

 

 

 

[Groovtama]

Try it with and without the Character Maker Extension. I think the scaling stuff is in there and I think there is the problem with the scaling of the butt bones, the feet in the ground problem etc. It depends how the plugin works with the custom scales of XPMS etc. I don't have source access so I can't tell 100% sure.

[bjornk]

You have to use that extension, otherwise there's no point in using ECE, it doesn't work correctly without it anyway.

[Groovtama]

I just wanted to know if the SKSE extension is doing it to be sure. A possible fix I can think of is making a new scale .ini and set your race to use that scale .ini and disable the $CME_ButtScale inside of the ini.

[bjornk]

I did actually comment out the shoulder and leg scale lines in humanraces_slider.ini but didn't notice any difference. I'm going to try creating a separate ini like you said and then comment out everything related to body parts scaling.

 

Edit:

 

Yep, doing that fixes the problem. I can even see the difference in race selection menu. Changing my race to anything other than Imperial (where I commented out all the scaling) gives me a big butt. So, the solution is commenting out all the scaling.

 

Here's what you should do in a few steps:

 

1.

 

For human races (Nord, Imperial, Redguard etc.):

 

- Locate the file \meshes\CharacterMakingExtender\commonTriRaces\humanraces_slider.ini

 

For other races:

 

- Locate the file \meshes\CharacterMakingExtender\commonTriRaces\elfraces_slider.ini (OR)

- Locate the file \meshes\CharacterMakingExtender\commonTriRaces\orcraces_slider.ini

 

2. Open up those files in a text editor.

3. Comment out (put a '#' in front of the line) the following 4 lines:

$CME_ShoulderScale, 908, 202, NPC Spine2 [Spn2], 0.2, NPC Head [Head], (1 / x), WeaponBack, (1 / x), WeaponBow, (1 / x), QUIVER, (1 / x), NPC Root [Root], (120.5 / (29.1 * x + 91.4))
$CME_LegScale, 904, 202, NPC L Thigh [LThg], 0.1, NPC R Thigh [RThg], x, NPC L Calf [LClf], ((x - 1) * 0.2 + 1), NPC R Calf [RClf], ((x - 1) * 0.2 + 1), NPC Pelvis [Pelv], (x):(1):(x < 1), WeaponDagger, (x):(1):(x < 1), WeaponAxe, (x):(1):(x < 1), WeaponSword, (x):(1):(x < 1), WeaponMace, (x):(1):(x < 1), NPC COM [COM ], (68.9113 / (x^3 * 9.7 + x^2 * 59.2113)):(68.9113 / (x^2 * 9.7 + x * 59.2113)):(x < 1), NPC Root [Root], (x^2 * 125 / (x^3 * 9.7 + x^2 * 59.2113 + 56.0887)):(x * 125 / (x^2 * 9.7 + x * 59.2113 + 56.0887)):(x < 1)

$CME_WaistScale, 914, 202, CME Spine1, 0.2, +CME Spine1, -x, 0, 15, 8.7487, CME Spine2, (1 / x), +CME Spine2, (-x / (x + 1)), 0, -15, 2

$CME_ButtScale, 912, 2, NPC L Butt, 0.9, NPC R Butt, x

I'm not really sure which one of these lines in particular is responsible for the big butt. You can experiment with them if you'd like. 

 

 

[Liuli]

 

The instructions on the first page states that you don't need Realistic Ragdoll & Force, but if you don't install and use Realistic Ragdoll & Force along with this mod or XPMS, you won't be able to lift/drag dead bodies.

I remember dragging both the orc Gourmet into a hiding place as well as dragging a dead Forsworn on top of the table with the press-plate in that one Hagraven hideout. I'll double check tomorrow though.

[Groovtama]

This is how I interprete the $CME_ButtScale line:

Scale Nodes Left (NPC L Butt) and Right (NPC R Butt) to x, Default Value 0.9.

So SetNodeScale to X. Always thought it was a scalar... such missinterpretation... But I guess there lies the big butt. I have to calculate the skeleton butt node scale of xpms to prove it fully but mehh too lazy right now...

 

The other lines are more complex and to long to write in human language^^

 

$CME_LegScale line could also be possible because of NPC Pelvis [Pelv] to cause it over the nodes order.

[xp32]

well, I want to it straight ... what caused crushed (ragdoll off on death) breast or anything.. It is on skeleton_female.hkx.. I believe I've already fix this in the past.. I remember being asked by someone that nagging me about this then I ask him to upload his bodymeshes he's using so I could test it myself. Dunno but I dont have issue again

 

in vanilla skeleton hkx

<hkparam name="chainMappings" numelements="0"></hkparam>
<hkparam name="unmappedBones" numelements="81">
						
0 1 2 3 5 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22						
23 27 30 33 34 37 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49						
50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65						
66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81						
82 83 84 85 86 87 88 89 90 91 92 93 94 95 96 97						
98 

since we add newbone that unmapped, below is the fix

<hkparam name="chainMappings" numelements="0"></hkparam>
<hkparam name="unmappedBones" numelements="91">
						
0 1 2 3 5 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22						
23 27 30 33 34 37 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49						
50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65						
66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81						
82 83 84 85 86 87 88 89 90 91 92 93 94 95 96 97						
98 99 100 101 102 103 104 105 106 107 108

If you still experiencing it then your skeleton_female.hkx might not be mine

 

I saw u using lagbone again, why Lagbone controller fix this ? actually it not fix anything but disable any effect or motions that involved on the bones that controlled by it. Hence, the ragdoll off effect that caused from ummapped bone (in this case butt or breast) is disabled

 

 

As for skeleton scale from 1.4 to 1.9, yes it has difference scaling.. (height or something.. not interested in request for editing this) I've not got time yet to make vanilla scale but it actually quite easy if you only apply it to one skeleton. Open vanilla skeleton.nif and compare the scale.