[Outdated] XPMS modified for TBBP

[Groovtama]

Glad to see you are back

 

About the scaling, yeah 1.4 to 1.9 has differences in scaling, but he said the switch was from 1.4 to 1.9 and it was "a lot" smaller, 1.4 to 1.9 is not a lot smaler +- 1 height unit more or less for one to the other (don't remember what values I got ~0,7 or so which is barely noticable), the only one where it is lot is from vanilla/vanilla-similar/normalize skeletons.

 

As for ECE Leg Scale and Butt Scale sliders, not really a problem with the skeleton scaling just need to get the time to sit down to document and calc the new values and the sliders should work fine with XPMS. Scale what you want with XPMS, the ECE scaling stuff is fixable^^

 

About crushed stuff, it's only the butt, that Liuli's work, I have my theories on it, but he/she might know more.

[Liuli]

 

I saw u using lagbone again, why Lagbone controller fix this ? actually it not fix anything but disable any effect or motions that involved on the bones that controlled by it. Hence, the ragdoll off effect that caused from ummapped bone (in this case butt or breast) is disabled

 

 

As for skeleton scale from 1.4 to 1.9, yes it has difference scaling.. (height or something.. not interested in request for editing this) I've not got time yet to make vanilla scale but it actually quite easy if you only apply it to one skeleton. Open vanilla skeleton.nif and compare the scale.

 

It's great to see you resurface XP32.

The reason I've re-added the LagBones to the butt bones is that with XPMS 1.81 and a CBBE body a 'crushed butt' effect happens during some of the older custom animations modders still use. Examples would be the SexLab animations from this forums, Rough Missionary, Rough Behind and Rough Doggy Style.

 

The main reason I've started a modified skeleton though are TBBP related. Using a CBBE body with TBBP and XPMS 1.81, the breasts are not located where they should be - they hover too high on the body from where they were designed to be in bodyslide. This happen because of the bone connecting the two PreBreast bones that was added around version 1.6. (The bone is called 423 NiNode in NifSkope). As Groovtama realized, this bone is rotated by 10 degrees, and during TBBP's idle, walking and running animations this 10 degrees of rotation cause the breasts to hover higher on the body than they should be.

 

Edit:

Also for the male skeleton I'm using a copy of the female skeleton because female companions (Lydia etc) use the male skeleton while they're following you.

 

I hope this explains the issues well enough.

[xp32]

for the older custom animations, I could understand why it act strange (crushed) since the might using different bone hierarchy (for the butt animations) when making those motions. As I simply said, Lagbone controller simply disabling its movement and could be a cure for some ppl but not for me. I always test the "crush" issue with ragdoll spell to make my char act like she is a dead body. 

 

For the breast position that too high, you have my recognition for this since I didn't really pay attention to it. True its y axis is +10, hence I took your changes to next update if you dont mind.

 

Btw, using HDTPhysics is awesome. Butts got automatic jiggle and breasts have more "lively" motions!

[Groovtama]

Thanks, take what you want^^

 

You can also take over the TJOP and SoS stuff from here http://www.loverslab.com/topic/20027-xpms-modified-for-tbbp-fixes-breasts-too-high-crushed-butt/page-2?do=findComment&comment=482300 if you want. (horse fix is obsolete)

[tuctuc]

about this ECE issue...

 

I have not looked under the hood how it really works but noticed that it forces skeletons in certain defaults...completely.

I've been trying to modify the skeleton provided in this thread lately and and could not understand why i can only see the changes on NPCs but not my character...turned out to be ECE.

As a test i did some really wacky scales and stuff on the skelly all around and loaded a clean save that had not ECE in it...worked perfectly but once i entered racemenu and tryed to use any slider whole shape reverted completely to what i believe to be defaults that the author has implemented in ECE.

Does not matter what slider...be it on the body or face only...they all revert the whole body to that very same shape. (and yes i also have that sunken feet thing)

 

I even deleted the CME Headpos, CME Spine1 and 2 on the skeleton to get rid off some ece features but it was no help.

 

Annoying really...i wish i could only use the face modifying features of ECE and do the rest on my own in Nifscope.

 

[Liuli]

For the breast position that too high, you have my recognition for this since I didn't really pay attention to it. True its y axis is +10, hence I took your changes to next update if you dont mind.

I always considered this thread temporary in the hopes you'll eventually come up with a fix, I don't mind at all.

 

Looking forward for the next XPMS version.

[xp32]

for next update, I've finish setup and adding several new bones that might come handy with ( I've not tell anyone in nexus)

- Schlongs OS mod (of course)

- Animated Hair Project - Ponytail (my new mod in nexus http://skyrim.nexusmods.com/mods/44961/)

- Bones that used in "NPRChinaDress" for hdtPhysicsExtensions (reason, optimize the plugin so it don't really need to load bones from the dress)

- Bones that used in Canderes experimental hair "christiehair" for hdtPhysicsExtensions (reason is same as above)

 

The thing that remain unchanged and differ from this thread skeleton

- I am against using BSLagbone controller (it causing "odd" behavior if the bones are in motion)

reason, I myself using TBBP (breast and butt) body mesh as base and not meeting strange behavior of its bone anymore.. If anything strange.. it lies on the animations file itself

 

As for ECE itself, I dunno.. I'm fine without ECE anyway

 

I have finish making default setup, but other variant for weapon placement haven't.. would you wait until all is finish or shall I upload a sample?

[tuctuc]

Ahh...did a terrible job reading this thread...the answer was already on the previous page

so i just commented out all the sliders in the ini file that messes with the bodys scaling.

 

Also saw this on the nexus thread

 

QUOTE from tktk1

"At least, it is not broken and bug.
If you want to use xp32 skeleton body proportion, edit ini yourself.
you need to find 156-167 line in Data\Meshes\CharacterMakingExtender\commonTriRaces\humanraces_slider.ini.
You set that numeric value at XP32 skeleton node scale value."
Body proportions in the ini is in accordance with the vanilla. This will conflict with other body proportions. I will not rewrite the ini for the xp32 skeleton, so it is endress."

 

 

I have finish making default setup, but other variant for weapon placement haven't.. would you wait until all is finish or shall I upload a sample?

 

sample, pwetty please.
 

[Groovtama]

If the default version is final and only weapon placement is needed I also like to see the sample so we can get ECE fixed as soon as possible on the new version. So long slider disabling should be enough.

[xp32]

xpms 1.9b default sample

http://www.mediafire.com/?jcl57q93b05lx7w

 

As for ECE, I don't know where to fix if it's about *.ini settings. tktk him self might write some line, script or something and setting that I dont understand. Seems tktk upload a new version of ECE where in the NMM installer you can choose skeleton preferences. It just as tuctuc said, modify skeleton_female.nif has no help (maybe) but I haven't figure out how if it possible to fix ECE issue with messing the nif

 

several reason why I never use ECE, (even without XPMS installed)

- wtf happen with the breast ?

- how come my lovely Ashen race char is broken (main reason)

- I don't like how the "lips" looks like

- I can tweak any feature in ECE with manual tweak outside the game (using nifskope, CK, and etc etc for personal)

 

Btw, ECE has updated and the new installer have options if we want to disable body scaling. I try it and no sunken feet however, I experience bad thing with breast and may ashen race face. Uninstalled  ECE after exit to desktop, lol

[Groovtama]

The no scaling option and disabling the slider in the ini is the same, I want it fully correctly working with XPMS that's why I do that fix.

 

- wtf happen with the breast ?

Character Maker Extender overwrites node scales on runtime from the ini (with vanilla skeleton values) [that is what I fix for XPMS]

 

- how come my lovely Ashen race char is broken (main reason)

Custom non compatible CME tri (morph files) do bad stuff ingame

 

- I don't like how the "lips" looks like

That's switching out a texture (ECE problem here^^)

 

- I can tweak any feature in ECE with manual tweak outside the game (using nifskope, CK, and etc etc for personal)

ECE is basically texture changing that's not a problem outside of the game, CME's just more convient changing scales/morph files on runtime, Race Menu can basically do the scaling, but misses the morph file switching, that's why I use RM + CME.

[Liuli]

xpms 1.9b default sample

http://www.mediafire.com/?jcl57q93b05lx7w

 

As for ECE, I don't know where to fix if it's about *.ini settings. tktk him self might write some line, script or something and setting that I dont understand. Seems tktk upload a new version of ECE where in the NMM installer you can choose skeleton preferences. It just as tuctuc said, modify skeleton_female.nif has no help (maybe) but I haven't figure out how if it possible to fix ECE issue with messing the nif

 

several reason why I never use ECE, (even without XPMS installed)

- wtf happen with the breast ?

- how come my lovely Ashen race char is broken (main reason)

- I don't like how the "lips" looks like

- I can tweak any feature in ECE with manual tweak outside the game (using nifskope, CK, and etc etc for personal)

 

Btw, ECE has updated and the new installer have options if we want to disable body scaling. I try it and no sunken feet however, I experience bad thing with breast and may ashen race face. Uninstalled  ECE after exit to desktop, lol

I tested this new version and it fixes the 'breasts too high in TBBP' bug great! Thank you so much!

 

I edited the original post on this thread to encourage people to wait for the next official version of XPMS. Once it comes out I'll make a version with the BSLagBoneControllers and I'll rename this thread to "XPMS with fix for CBBE in old SexLab animations (Rough Behind, Rough Missionary, Rough Doggy Style)". I'll change the description to notify people that it's only to be used if they can't pass up on those old animations, as well as explaining using it might cause issues with butt-bone animations triggered by other mods.

[xp32]

The no scaling option and disabling the slider in the ini is the same, I want it fully correctly working with XPMS that's why I do that fix.

 

- wtf happen with the breast ?

Character Maker Extender overwrites node scales on runtime from the ini (with vanilla skeleton values) [that is what I fix for XPMS]

 You said you did a fix for this, what did you change for the fix for those two points, 

btw, I've finished all variant and upload it to nexus but might not be a final depend on our discussion.. It seems I miss some change since I took Liuli skeleton at front pages, but not yours..

[Groovtama]

Wrote you a message on Nexus!

 

Working on the fix later tonight, or tomorrow.

 

Fix is basically:

Going into: meshes\CharacterMakingExtender\commonTriRaces

 

Opening humanraces_slider.ini, orcraces_slider.ini etc.

 

and changing

$CME_BreastScale, 911, 2, NPC L Breast, 0.9, NPC R Breast, x

the 0.9 with the XPMS value

also for the rest of the sliders

[xp32]

I don't really mind with the vanilla value for the body scale as long as no sunken feet but that breast "thingy issue" is worst than my broken character's face lol

 

I tested this new version and it fixes the 'breasts too high in TBBP' bug great! Thank you so much! 

I edited the original post on this thread to encourage people to wait for the next official version of XPMS. Once it comes out I'll make a version with the BSLagBoneControllers and I'll rename this thread to "XPMS with fix for CBBE in old SexLab animations (Rough Behind, Rough Missionary, Rough Doggy Style)". I'll change the description to notify people that it's only to be used if they can't pass up on those old animations, as well as explaining using it might cause issues with butt-bone animations triggered by other mods.

 

No problem

[Liuli]

 

 You said you did a fix for this, what did you change for the fix for those two points, 

 

btw, I've finished all variant and upload it to nexus but might not be a final depend on our discussion.. It seems I miss some change since I took Liuli skeleton at front pages, but not yours..

 

I found a bug in version 1.9b which I should have warned about:

 

Since you fixed the 10 degrees rotation on the bone connecting the prebreast bones, the 'breasts too high' problem was fixed for TBBP. BUT! Now the breasts sink too low during all none TBBP animation. This means for example that when an NPC walks their breasts are at correct height, but then they'd lean on furniture and the breasts would sink. The breasts would also be sunk during stealth and combat animations etc.

 

I know that this problem's source is in the .hkx file, since if I use the XPMS's .hkx from the old version titled "MAXIMUM SKELETON" then the breasts are at the correct height. I'm not smart enough to know more about the cause of this bug, though.

 

Sorry for any confusion regarding which issues are fixed by my modification vs Groovtama's. Groovtama's skeleton is at http://www.loverslab.com/topic/20027-xpms-modified-for-tbbp-fixes-breasts-too-high-crushed-butt/page-2?do=findComment&comment=482300 on this thread.

[xp32]

Here a new hkx. I need you to test whether it still cause breast sink too low or not

http://www.mediafire.com/download/3g2adc4uyvig45n/skeleton_female_1-9c.7z

 

Since I using HDTPhysicsExtension for Breast bone, I got better result without any TBBP animations, subtle motions from the animations is enough to make it so lively..

Btw, I've tried to make the hkx and need you test it whether something gone wrong or not. 

 

On different note, actually I want to have a copy of your body meshes that you are using to test right since I'm using "UNPB 2.5g TBBP" to testing.  I would like to know if different meshes will cause different effect in this case

[tuctuc]

I would like to know if different meshes will cause different effect in this case

 

Right breast gets crushed and left one rotates a little  when i sit down or have weapon drawn, moving crouched etc.

Using Dream Girl TBBP body...and am not using HTD (if that matters in this case).

 

EDIT: same thing with my bodyslided CBBE.

 

also FNIS now reports XPMS (242 bones) instead of the the usual TBBP (210 bones) i get.

[xp32]

 

I would like to know if different meshes will cause different effect in this case

 

Right breast gets crushed and left one rotates a little  when i sit down or have weapon drawn, moving crouched etc.

Using Dream Girl TBBP body...and am not using HTD (if that matters in this case).

 

EDIT: same thing with my bodyslided CBBE.

 

also FNIS now reports XPMS (242 bones) instead of the the usual TBBP (210 bones) i get.

 

True, different mesh different effect. I'll try to make universal effect that bring good for all

EDIT:

here is the new one, tested with :

Dream girl TBBP

UNPB 2-5g TBBP

enjoy the file skeleton_female HKX 1-9cFIX.7z

[Liuli]

 

True, different mesh different effect. I'll try to make universal effect that bring good for all

EDIT:

here is the new one, tested with :

Dream girl TBBP

UNPB 2-5g TBBP

enjoy the file skeleton_female HKX 1-9cFIX.7z

 

Just woke up and tested the .hkx. Works great Breasts appear as they're supposed to ingame during different types of animation, in combat or out of combat, and work well even on the female companions.

 

Here's the body I use myself, it's a CBBE TBBP body created in bodyslide++. It's only the femalebody_x.nif etc and texture files.

CBBE-TBBP body.zip

[tuctuc]

thanks, works great on both now

[Groovtama]

A Quick Update on the CME + XPMS stuff, after 3 hours calculating and trying to understand how the ini works I got the hang of it how I can put the base skeleton values from XPMS into CME scaling and preserve them.

 

I will probably throw two preview version out if every slider is debugged (<= takes a lot of time).

First version will have XPMS values as start value, ex. Height start value will be simply be 1.01 and the slider will be added linear. That means if the slider is on 0.2 the new Height will be 1.21. (Default ini it would be 1.2)

Second version will have XPMS values as scalar, ex Height base value will be 1.01 (([slider = ]0.0 + 1) * 1.01). That means if the slider is on 0.2 the new Height will be 1.212 (([slider = ]0.2 + 1) * 1.01).

 

So i'm done for today^^

[xp32]

in the next update I plan to reduce the scale back 1.00 since some people complain that their female nord are taller than male

 EDIT:

I've found something interesting about this scaling thing

 

RaceMenu skeleton Sliders for XPMS by NEM-E5I5

http://skyrim.nexusmods.com/mods/45235/

[Groovtama]

Like I said scale the bones how you want I know what to do meanwhile it's just changing one number^^ If you use 1.0 as root scale I can go back to scale over setscale instead of root node.^^

 

Edit: After multiple anger pauses with the legslider I throwed that thing out... that thing doesn't want to work no matter what I tried...

 

Attched test version with skeleton scales as scalars.

 

[tuctuc]

Like I said scale the bones how you want I know what to do meanwhile it's just changing one number^^ If you use 1.0 as root scale I can go back to scale over setscale instead of root node.^^

 

Edit: After multiple anger pauses with the legslider I throwed that thing out... that thing doesn't want to work no matter what I tried...

 

Attched test version with skeleton scales as scalars.

 

Works great...did the same test as before and only saw very minor increase in overal scale but i think thats just from another ECE setting to to fit the body to it's modified headmesh (you know the gap in the neck before the ini activates once you touch a slider for the first time)...or ?

But thats hardly noticeable...whats important is every shape retained it's original setting from the skeleton, no sunken feet and also the sliders worked like they should.