Generate voice packs for the Toy family of mods

[Herowynne]

2 hours ago, Dr. John Zoidberg said:

does it matter for adding this mid-playthrough since the esp is not an actual script but just an empty file with only the headers so that the archive would get extracted...

 

The important point is to only add ESP files to the end of your load order on an existing game.

 

This is true even for an empty ESP file that contains no records.

 

Adding an ESP file somewhere in the middle of your load order, on an existing game, will cause the subsequent ESP files to shift down to a different hex number.

 

The Skyrim game engine does have basic functionality to renumber all the object references when your load order changes like that. The problem is that the game engine can miss renumbering some of those object references. Any object references that get missed during renumbering are likely to corrupt your saved game.

[VirginMarie]

50 minutes ago, Herowynne said:

The important point is to only add ESP files to the end of your load order on an existing game.

 

This is true even for an empty ESP file that contains no records.

 

Adding an ESP file somewhere in the middle of your load order, on an existing game, will cause the subsequent ESP files to shift down to a different hex number.

 

The Skyrim game engine does have basic functionality to renumber all the object references when your load order changes like that. The problem is that the game engine can miss renumbering some of those object references. Any object references that get missed during renumbering are likely to corrupt your saved game.

 

Exactly. And its the bigger mods like Toys&Love and SLaVE that suffer for it, as there is simply more to go wrong when you have a corrupt save.

 

3 hours ago, Dr. John Zoidberg said:

I left the old version in just in case. Also, does it matter for adding this mid-playthrough since the esp is not an actual script but just an empty file with only the headers so that the archive would get extracted...

 

I'm not talking about script corruption. There's no chance of that.

More on the topic here... Golden Rule and here... do I really need to start a new game?

 

Load order change save corruption is entirely different. Its a given, and guaranteed. Its only a matter of how long till you notice problems in your game.

 

Please warn the users so I can have less support cases that I have to support. Its going to all fall onto me.

Alternatively, could go back to the previous method. It blocks me from ever doing my own BSA, but I'd rather have that, than more cases of people screwing their saves.

 

Here's an updated sample of how you might write it....

 

Note: For LE OR adding this mod mid-playthrough, download and use the Loose file version.

The other version is SE only, and for faster game load, but requires a new game, unless you ensure it's added last in your load order.

 

Edited August 26, 2022 by VirginMarie

[Dr. John Zoidberg]

17 minutes ago, VirginMarie said:

 

Exactly. And its the bigger mods like Toys&Love and SLaVE that suffer for it, as there is simply more to go wrong when you have a corrupt save.

 

 

I'm not talking about script corruption. There's no chance of that.

More on the topic here... Golden Rule and here... do I really need to start a new game?

 

Load order change save corruption is entirely different. Its a given, and guaranteed. Its only a matter of how long till you notice problems in your game.

 

Please warn the users so I can have less support cases that I have to support. Its going to all fall onto me.

Alternatively, could go back to the previous method. It blocks me from ever doing my own BSA, but I'd rather have that, than more cases of people screwing their saves.

 

Here's an updated sample of how you might write it....

 

Note: For LE OR adding this mod mid-playthrough, download and use the Loose file version.

The other version is SE only, and for faster game load, but requires a new game, unless you ensure it's added last in your load order.

 

 

I wasn't aware of how the hex numbers would change, and just assumed that the issues would arise when new objects, scripts, etc... were added into an already running game. Since I didn't remove the old version with no esp, I changed the description to this:

 

If you are on LE, download the Loose file version.

If you are on SE and adding this mod mid-playthrough, download and use ToyStory Voice Pack Old Version

If you are on SE and starting a new game, download and use ToyStory - Voices BSA

[SmedleyDButler]

WTF load order save corruption is a myth that's been debunked many times. Skyrim itself inherently has code to resolve changed plugin sequencing, even without mods to support it.

[VirginMarie]

47 minutes ago, SmedleyDButler said:

WTF load order save corruption is a myth that's been debunked many times. Skyrim itself inherently has code to resolve changed plugin sequencing, even without mods to support it.

 

I've not heard someone say this before. I think whatever you read to come to this conclusion, is the myth.

• Other myth.... the cleaning tools solve it... not true. Even the ReSaver author admits that on his front page, you have to read all the way down.
• Another myth... The "clean save procedure" you see many mods authors recommend... Makes it worse, not better. You must start a new game.

Note: There's tools dedicated to save corruption, so how can we say it does not exist? And if you are NOT saying that, then what causes it other than Load Order change?

 

More on the topic here... Golden Rule and here... do I really need to start a new game? Also explained perfectly by Herowynne above.

 

 

Edited August 26, 2022 by VirginMarie

[SmedleyDButler]

There are multiple posts right here on LL debunking that claim. The first two characters of any mod are actually dynamic and are assigned in-game either after or as the mod loads. The load order is loaded into the SKSE log, not baked into a save.

 

Instead of perpetuating unnecessary and incorrect modding practices, please educate yourself:

 

 

 

 

Edited August 27, 2022 by SmedleyDButler

[VirginMarie]

1 hour ago, SmedleyDButler said:

There are multiple posts right here on LL debunking that claim. The first two characters of any mod are actually dynamic and are assigned in-game either after or as the mod loads. The load order is loaded into the SKSE log, not baked into a save.

 

Instead of perpetuating unnecessary and incorrect modding practices, please educate yourself:

 

One guy on LL makes that post and this has become your source of truth? Believe it if you want, but I've experienced it enough to know that post is wrong.

 

I've been a Skyrim mod author for over 6 years. My latest work is the Toys&Love Framework which is 3 frameworks in one, an alternative to DD, SLA, and Sexlab. What's important here is the first hand experience that comes with. I've seen the problems of load order change hundreds of times, first hand, in 2 ways...

• When I test mods I'm developing, I've, seen the mess it makes if I change the load order by adding or deleting a mod mid-playthrough. It only works if you add to the end of the load order.  And you can NEVER delete... which is stated also in the post you linked... so it has one thing right. I had to learn this the hard way
• I've supported hundreds of reported problems and seen hundreds of people's game logs as part of supporting, and you get to know the symptoms of a corrupt save. Its real. ANY load order change, not just delete

Please educate yourself: Clearly I've educated myself. And I have the credentials as explained above. What's your credentials and experience? Why so sure of yourself?

 

Also if load order change does not cause save corruption, what does, exactly? Or are all the tools and talk (coming from real problems), not real?

 

 

Edited August 27, 2022 by VirginMarie

[VirginMarie]

On 8/25/2022 at 9:27 AM, Dr. John Zoidberg said:

Created the same version, but with a different bsa name and an associated light esp. Nothing new added.

Shout Like a Virgin - Voices.zip 29.92 MB · 1 download

 

I'm likely going to be able to finish testing today, with this latest pack. Likely means a release this weekend or Monday.

 

I did find one minor thing to fix due to changing Nocturnal... her faction reset, giving her incorrectly the vanilla follower dialogue... I'd expect voice generation does not care about factions right? (unless there is a condition checking faction to vary dialogue, which there is not in this case).

 

For voice still... found no issues so far. I look forward to hearing Hercine with his dragon voice   I have seen him work in the Holding Cell which is a good place to see most of the NPCS just speak some greetings. Have yet to hear his actual lines.

 

Oh and I LOVE that its voiced the random NPC comments. Did not expect that. Hearing those is a LMAO. 

[Dr. John Zoidberg]

23 minutes ago, VirginMarie said:

 

I'd expect voice generation does not care about factions right?

 

It doesn't, specially since Nocturnal has a voice type specified so Skyrim doesn't have to guess which voice type needs to be used.

 

27 minutes ago, VirginMarie said:

Oh and I LOVE that its voiced the random NPC comments. Did not expect that. Hearing those is a LMAO. 

 

You mean the random NPCs who just throw comments at you? The script DoubleCheeseburger created goes for a very broad approach, which is why when a voice type for a NPC is set to none, the voices get generated for several possible voice types. This is probably why you get to hear those voices.

 

[Herowynne]

48 minutes ago, VirginMarie said:

Oh and I LOVE that its voiced the random NPC comments. Did not expect that. Hearing those is a LMAO. 

 

Yes, there are a lot of them, and they are great! Stuff like the "Fresh cherries" remark. ??

[Tlam99]

13 hours ago, SmedleyDButler said:

please educate yourself:

Simple test as you are familiar with xedit.

Choose a mod using masters and contain scripts.

Add a new master what loads before a master of the mod.

Now sort master after load order in xedit, save, exit xedit.

Start xedit and check the references of the script.

Wow, they are all gone. All refences for the scipt cannot be resolved.

Same happens when shifting esp which might be used as masters.

 

[VirginMarie]

11 minutes ago, Herowynne said:

 

Yes, there are a lot of them, and they are great! Stuff like the "Fresh cherries" remark. ??

 

Too bad we did not add NPC comments for Toy Story. The voice gen makes this more worthwhile. Future thing!

[VirginMarie]

If you are wearing the Anal Torch Toy...

 

I used to be an adventurer like you, then I took a flaming torch up the ass.

[SmedleyDButler]

14 hours ago, VirginMarie said:

 

One guy on LL makes that post and this has become your source of truth? Believe it if you want, but I've experienced it enough to know that post is wrong.

 

I've been a Skyrim mod author for over 6 years. My latest work is the Toys&Love Framework which is 3 frameworks in one, an alternative to DD, SLA, and Sexlab. What's important here is the first hand experience that comes with. I've seen the problems of load order change hundreds of times, first hand, in 2 ways...

• When I test mods I'm developing, I've, seen the mess it makes if I change the load order by adding or deleting a mod mid-playthrough. It only works if you add to the end of the load order.  And you can NEVER delete... which is stated also in the post you linked... so it has one thing right. I had to learn this the hard way
• I've supported hundreds of reported problems and seen hundreds of people's game logs as part of supporting, and you get to know the symptoms of a corrupt save. Its real. ANY load order change, not just delete

Please educate yourself: Clearly I've educated myself. And I have the credentials as explained above. What's your credentials and experience? Why so sure of yourself?

 

Also if load order change does not cause save corruption, what does, exactly? Or are all the tools and talk (coming from real problems), not real?

 

 

 

No, not "one guy" there have been many posts about it over the years, that is simply one of the most detailed ones. Feel free to counter-search the forums for posts supporting YOUR view.

 

You literally say you are ADDING or REMOVING mods - which is different from just changing the ordering. Removing scripted mods is a well-known and very common cause of save corruption and if you refuse to acknowledge the difference between sequencing and actual removal, then I doubt anything anyone will say will convince you.

 

You offer literally no meaningful reply to the information in the post I linked, which goes into a lot of detail. I daresay you didn't even bother reading it, given how arrogantly sure of yourself you are. Instead you try attacking me in order to avoid having to reply to someone with a lot more experience and knowledge than either of us.

 

Attitudes like yours are what perpetuate bad modding practices and gets newcomers into trouble.

 

Edited August 27, 2022 by SmedleyDButler

[SmedleyDButler]

1 hour ago, Tlam99 said:

Simple test as you are familiar with xedit.

Choose a mod using masters and contain scripts.

Add a new master what loads before a master of the mod.

Now sort master after load order in xedit, save, exit xedit.

Start xedit and check the references of the script.

Wow, they are all gone. All refences for the scipt cannot be resolved.

Same happens when shifting esp which might be used as masters.

 

 

Yes masters must load before dependencies, and yes, if you put the master after the dependency, then naturally you will have problems. This has nothing to do with the hexidecimal numeric entry of a mod.

[Tlam99]

Did I say this ? No

All masters still load before the mod, but will be reordered.

 

Masters listed in xedit sorting, not masters in load order.

Edited August 27, 2022 by Tlam99

[VirginMarie]

2 hours ago, SmedleyDButler said:

 

No, not "one guy" there have been many posts about it over the years, that is simply one of the most detailed ones. Feel free to counter-search the forums for posts supporting YOUR view.

 

You literally say you are ADDING or REMOVING mods - which is different from just changing the ordering. Removing scripted mods is a well-known and very common cause of save corruption and if you refuse to acknowledge the difference between sequencing and actual removal, then I doubt anything anyone will say will convince you.

 

You offer literally no meaningful reply to the information in the post I linked, which goes into a lot of detail. I daresay you didn't even bother reading it, given how arrogantly sure of yourself you are. Instead you try attacking me in order to avoid having to reply to someone with a lot more experience and knowledge than either of us.

 

Attitudes like yours are what perpetuate bad modding practices and gets newcomers into trouble.

 

 

Why the extreme hostility? You have been extremely hostile from the start, and this just continues. I'm just an innocent virgin trying to do good.  

 

You literally say you are ADDING or REMOVING mods.

Well yes, because that's the use cases of what users do. That's what was being discussed when you made your "WTF" post. The Golden Rule is exactly about that. Adding or removing are the main use cases. 

 

You believe "only re-sorting LO" is fine. That's the case you are making. I've seen enough to know it's not fine. But even if that were true, its unimportant as its a rare use case.

 

Lets agree to disagree and move on. I would accept your apology for the hostility if I get one, but beyond that, let's let this thread be left for its intent, and not highjack it with your schooling of me. If you wish though, I DO love a spanking.....

 

  please?

 

This will be my last post on the topic. 

Edited August 27, 2022 by VirginMarie

[VirginMarie]

4 hours ago, Dr. John Zoidberg said:

You mean the random NPCs who just throw comments at you? 

 

So ya its these thingies, on the Misc tab, for the SLAVE main quest....

 

 

I have a question, as I'm testing SLAVE, I'm thinking about the next mod we work on... probably Toys&Love itself should be next.

 

My question... Does the generator automatically exclude when a line starts with a special character, or something?

• In Toy Story, there's a 2 or 3 cases where a line is  <bla bla bla>   or other case is  *bla bla bla*. Those don't' get spoken, which is perfect, but I'm not sure if you had to manually exclude them or not. In Toys&Love there's more like that... for example   --Start Signing--  is one case... and don't want it spoken.

Edited August 27, 2022 by VirginMarie

[SmedleyDButler]

2 hours ago, VirginMarie said:

 

Why the extreme hostility? You have been extremely hostile from the start, and this just continues. I'm just an innocent virgin trying to do good.  

 

You literally say you are ADDING or REMOVING mods.

Well yes, because that's the use cases of what users do. That's what was being discussed when you made your "WTF" post. The Golden Rule is exactly about that. Adding or removing are the main use cases. 

 

You believe "only re-sorting LO" is fine. That's the case you are making. I've seen enough to know it's not fine. But even if that were true, its unimportant as its a rare use case.

 

Lets agree to disagree and move on. I would accept your apology for the hostility if I get one, but beyond that, let's let this thread be left for its intent, and not highjack it with your schooling of me. If you wish though, I DO love a spanking.....

 

  please?

 

This will be my last post on the topic. 

 

You continue to avoid actually answering the points raised or providing any evidence that changing load order without changing masters . Sorting a load order is not a "rare use case", it happens all the damn time. I will not "agree to disagree" because this isn't a matter of opinion but of known facts. These are not "equal" sides.

 

Again. Skyrim was designed from the beginning to be able to handle changing .esp plugin form IDs because the plugin list is loaded dynamically.

 

For others who might come across your misinformation later, here's some further information:

 

Hex values are only used by the game in progress, if you look at a mod's pure data, all mod variables (items, npcs, etc.) have a 00 hex value for the first two characters that gets overwritten when you run the game and the game assigns the hex value based on its position.

 

The hex data is only created at RUN TIME. It is not present in either save files or mod files. Scripts and plugins are are stored in the save by their filenames, not by formID,

 

This system which probably adopted by Beth because multiple mods can make use of the same script, so trying to store that by form ID wasn't practical.

 

If what Virgin suggested was true, adding new mods in the middle of a playthrough anywhere but at the end would guarantee your save would break. Which is just completely and blatantly untrue, and if it was it would be one of the top warnings in every mod manager and modding site around. In fact, even buying DLC would have irreparably broken saves.

 

If a mod somehow hard-codes load order position, then that is a BAD MOD. It does not mean the system doesn't work.

 

There are very specific exceptions (and funny enough they often involve LL mods more often than other stuff due to their, er, ambitious nature, and their authors being more willing than most to get what they want working to work, regardless of the consequences). Here's a somewhat recent discussion of the matter, which summarizes the way the load order works and is followed by discussion of a problem with SOS specifically: https://www.reddit.com/r/skyrimmods/comments/sczp86/comment/hu9x9ai/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3

 

Note that even in that circumstance, the issue was easily fixable.

 

 

 

Edited August 27, 2022 by SmedleyDButler

[VirginMarie]

Teaser Video

 

Voiced SLaVE

 

[VirginMarie]

@Dr. John ZoidbergOk I've released the SLaVE version with for Voice Pack readiness.

 

I can't say I've heard every line, but about 80%. No issues found. Good to go I think.

 

 

Thinking ahead to next project... If you want to do Toys&Love, I don't believe there's any edit to make for its ESP. It has none of its own NPCs. The lines are all lines that can occur for any NPC for the Proposition Love Effect, and there's not many. The testing of it will be fast, and there won't need to be a Toys&Love release to support it.

 

There's my one question above.

[Dr. John Zoidberg]

22 hours ago, VirginMarie said:

@Dr. John ZoidbergOk I've released the SLaVE version with for Voice Pack readiness.

 

Released voice pack:

 

 

[Dr. John Zoidberg]

On 8/28/2022 at 2:35 AM, VirginMarie said:

My question... Does the generator automatically exclude when a line starts with a special character, or something?

 

They get automatically excluded.

[VirginMarie]

5 minutes ago, Dr. John Zoidberg said:

They get automatically excluded.

 

Toy&Love in current release is good to go then.

[Dr. John Zoidberg]

@VirginMarie Voices for Toys&Love

ToyLove Voices Loose.zip ToyLove Voices BSA.zip

Edited August 30, 2022 by Dr. John Zoidberg