Sexy Bandit Captives © [WIP] Support Thread

[Tako-kun]

5 hours ago, EinarrTheRed said:

Maybe you should have read the REPLY to that post.

 

There are NO deleted navmeshes.  That person deleted 18 navmeshes because... actually I've no clue why they would do that... just that it should NOT have been done and they've fucked up their copy of the mod by doing so.

 

 

 

@EinarrTheRed I'm also seeing deleted navmesh (records) in xedit, and I definitely didn't delete them myself.  Can you confirm on your end that the record in my pic isn't deleted?  I'm on SE, v0.98c.

 

Edited April 4, 2022 by Tako-kun
Wrong pic attachment

[XarisZ]

What a time to be alive.?

[pinky6225]

9 hours ago, EinarrTheRed said:

 

Faction Spy on Nexus

 

Cast a spell on the NPC and get a handy onscreen report and the ability to edit the factions right then.  Very useful.

 

Gives the below for Viera

I'll try going to an earlier save and seeing if version D does anything differently for her

[davidxs]

i downloaded the latest version and found on eof the captives named vylira, got transported to void, and now the mod doesn't do anything. She says one line, my character freezes, she'll say another line, character freezes for a little bit, and nothing happens. Am i missing something i am supposed to do or are other people having this problem

 

[kalador]

5 minutes ago, davidxs said:

i downloaded the latest version and found on eof the captives named vylira, got transported to void, and now the mod doesn't do anything. She says one line, my character freezes, she'll say another line, character freezes for a little bit, and nothing happens. Am i missing something i am supposed to do or are other people having this problem

 

Did you run FNIS after installing the mod? 

Entering the void after finding the first captive leads to a cut scene, where everything runs without any input from the player.

 

[Wolfshrike]

Just saw a new version was posted, so this may  already be a fixed issue- but just in case it isn't. 

 

I'm on the C version, playing through on an older save with the civil war done for the empire. Got sent to the pale, but Brina Merilis doesn't have any dialouge to send me towards a bandit camp for a captive, nor does Horik or anyone else, it seems. I can continue picking up other holds in the mean time, but when recovering the captives there, I get spammed with "Seek information in the pale" quest update. 

 

Otherwise, so far, so good with the updated FOMOD on 0.98c- no crashes, everything else seems to be working great, and while I've not kept any yet, I've certainly been tempted a few times... 

EDIT: I'll update to D and see if that's fixed it in the morning!

Edited April 4, 2022 by Wolfshrike

[davidxs]

yep ran finis and i did not have nay cut scene that played. just stayed in the void with nothing happening

[pinky6225]

2 hours ago, pinky6225 said:

 

Gives the below for Viera

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

 

 

 

I'll try going to an earlier save and seeing if version D does anything differently for her

 

Didn't work, went back to a previous save and got the ridge again from the steward of Whiterun (also gave me another bandit location) but when i got back there was only two captives who were completely different to the 3 i'd had before, both of those worked fine with no missing dialogue/getting stuck in the void

 

1 hour ago, Wolfshrike said:

I'm on the C version, playing through on an older save with the civil war done for the empire. Got sent to the pale, but Brina Merilis doesn't have any dialouge to send me towards a bandit camp for a captive, nor does Horik or anyone else, it seems. I can continue picking up other holds in the mean time, but when recovering the captives there, I get spammed with "Seek information in the pale" quest update. 

 

Believe you issue is the old jarl having the dialogue as it doesn't follow who won/lost the civil war (someone else mentioned this a page or two ago)

 

I'm using PAH - And you get a slave so the losing side gets sold as slaves and i happen to have Jarl Skald (losing Jarl from Dawnstar if imperials win) as a slave in one of my player homes and he does show the dialogue so you could try visiting the losing sides holding location (windhelm if imperials win) and seeing if you can get the dialogue that way

[Blackbird Wanderer]

2 hours ago, pinky6225 said:

Gives the below for Viera

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

 

 

I'll try going to an earlier save and seeing if version D does anything differently for her

This shows what's needed to analyze.  Thanks!

[Blackbird Wanderer]

2 hours ago, Wolfshrike said:

EDIT: I'll update to D and see if that's fixed it in the morning!

v0.98D won't fix it, but this might.  Quickly cloned Skald's dialogue and shifted it to key on Brina so there should at least be unvoiced dialogue.  Just replace the ESP with this one.

SexyBanditCaptives.esp

 

2 hours ago, Wolfshrike said:

while I've not kept any yet, I've certainly been tempted a few times... 

Then the cosmetic changes are an improvement?

Edited April 4, 2022 by Blackbird Wanderer

[Blackbird Wanderer]

3 hours ago, pinky6225 said:

Gives the below for Viera

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

 

 

I'll try going to an earlier save and seeing if version D does anything differently for her

Solved!  It wasn't the Factions, which look perfect.  Her voice type is FemaleCondescending and that one hadn't been added to the list yet.  Fixed.  Try substituting this ESP.

SexyBanditCaptives.esp

[Ssplayer1ss]

I talk to the first captive and it takes me to a different place with a blue floating demon and nothing happens after that?

[pinky6225]

19 minutes ago, Blackbird Wanderer said:

Solved!  It wasn't the Factions, which look perfect.  Her voice type is FemaleCondescending and that one hadn't been added to the list yet.  Fixed.  Try substituting this ESP.

SexyBanditCaptives.esp 3.12 MB · 1 download

 

Put that in and loaded up the save and yeah Viera now has the dialogues

 

Had something else a little bit odd while i was playing though, i'm using

 

Which places creatures around skyrim and until now they had been completely ignored, like the first captive i took to the college of mages for the quest ran right past them without an issue but after doing another camp and coming across a captive that had been trying to join the bandits i went for subjugated rather than release (dragonborn doesnt approve of trying to join bandits) and the subjugated Aurilia is starting combat on the creatures at the college

Picked a fight with this one

This is the captive in that did it

 

Any idea's why a subjugated one would act differently to one being escorted to a mage for release?

 

[Heroine HoneyCrotch]

12 hours ago, EinarrTheRed said:

There are NO deleted navmeshes.  That person deleted 18 navmeshes

 

I dont think it matters, but I do use an older version of xedit. I certainly didnt delete any nav meshes. 

 

Spoiler

 

[EinarrTheRed]

6 hours ago, Tako-kun said:

 

@EinarrTheRed I'm also seeing deleted navmesh (records) in xedit, and I definitely didn't delete them myself.  Can you confirm on your end that the record in my pic isn't deleted?  I'm on SE, v0.98c.

Looked at this this morning (still waiting on my coffee dang it!).  This is not an area I worked on and may be left over from the original mod pchs built (SBC is built on an older mod with permission of the original mod author.

 

I'm running LE but yes those two show as being deleted in my version as well, the real question is why.  I'll have to go in and take a look at that (that means loading the unmodified cells, seeing what was there, then looking at the modified version and comparing the two), there are edits to two exterior cells there.  Could be nothing more than those navmeshes were merged in with the other navmeshing when some exterior stuff was added (static cages and things).  All of the four navmeshes listed have original FormIDs, so it wasn't a case of someone deleting the original navmeshing and replacing it, and I am seeing a lot of additional tri's in the remaining navmesh.  My guess, and I haven't checked yet, is that in updating the navmesh around the cages pchs merged two of the original navmeshes into the two remaining original navmeshes.  That's generally harmless.  But I'll double check it sometime today.

 

Keep in mind, that when Bethesda built Skyrim they autonavmeshed the exterior... and autonavmeshing is MESSY.  Its prone to creating lots of navmesh islands that serve no purpose and in other places creating navmesh that isn't usable by NPCs (and sometimes it just forgot to navmesh some cells).  Example, putting a small island of navmesh on top of some rocks where no NPC can go in the first place.  Sometimes we do delete navmesh that serves no purpose, that's harmless.  There are also places where Bethesda's navmeshing is just broken (or missing completely, did you know there is part of Fort Hraggstad in Haafingar that is missing its navmesh and so a back tower is cut off and NPCs can't move to or from that tower?  Cell -29,28  Or another example, there is a shrine to Akatosh SE of Bonestrewn Crater in Eastmarch that can be reached through a cleft in the rock.  From the design its clear Bethesda intended NPCs to be able to move through that passage but they cannot because most of the navmesh is too narrow and part of it is missing completely.  To fix it you'll have to delete one navmesh, expand another one and re-join two cells.  POIVolcanicTundra16  Cell 35.-6)  You cannot just look in TES Edit and judge by that, you have to go into CK and look at what the navmesh was being used for and whether it served a purpose or not.

 

Also keep in mind that Blackbird has a lot of "soft dependencies" to deal with, some edits in SBC that may seem like they serve no purpose are there because of a soft dependency to other mods (various bandit camp mods, watch towers, etc.) that you may or may not have in your load order.  TES Edit doesn't know how to understand that and it may be showing you things need to be cleaned when they don't because it doesn't understand soft dependencies.

 

That's not to say there aren't things that need to still be fixed, there were a LOT of dirty edits left from the original mod SBC is built over, and we've been working to clean that up.  But those have to be done by hand because each case has to be looked at individually.

 

At any rate I'll look at this case today and see if there are any problems, if there are, they will be fixed.

 

While we're on the topic, I built the 7 new camps that were added.  They are:

• Camp Reachcliff in the Reach, a bandit camp located in the remains of a Nordic ruin, heavily fortified against Forsworn as much as patrols
• Camp Rockslide Ridge, a bandit camp in the shadow of Fort Sunguard (formerly camp Steadfast in my MBC patch)
• Camp Aspen Creek in the Rift
• Camp Bonefall Slope in Falkreath, overlooks Lake Illinata from the shadow of Bleak Falls Barrow (formerly Ilinata's Overlook)
• Camp Frost Drake in Winterhold, overlooks the main road near Fort Kastav (this one can be tough)
• Camp Pinefrost Haven in Haafingar, overlooks Dragon's Bridge (formerly camp Snowfall in my MBC patch)
• Camp Wakefield, located in Falkreath, a cave not far from Lakeview Manor

Those are the camps I can best speak about, other locations I've worked with Blackbird to try an clean up and improve, but there may be bits and changes left from the original mod we've missed.  There are also areas that Bethesda themselves just flat screwed up and we fixed.  One example was Riftwatch Tower in the Rift, the navmesh was utterly broken.  NPCs couldn't enter or leave the tower, one part of the wooden walkway leading up had no navmesh at all, NPC couldn't navigate around inside it properly because Bethesda did such a lousy job with it.  I renavmeshed that entire tower by hand so that it now works smoothly, the orcs can come after you, move up and down the tower, followers can run in and out of the tower, etc.  That also included hand editing some of the cover edges to improve how the NPCs use it (which is one of the reasons bandits in my bandit camps tend to be more of a challenge, a good navmesh edit helps improve the combat AI's performance by better helping the NPCs to understand where they can find cover, snipe from, etc.).  And yeah, I deleted some of the original navmesh because it needed to go.  Everything deleted was carefully replaced or merged into existing navmesh and the cellborders properly joined so that things actually work the way they are supposed to.

 

So yes, some bits of navmesh did get deleted, it got fixed.  Just cause you see something in TES Edit you don't understand doesn't mean its something to scream about.  But I was hoping to avoid posting a wall of text explaining everything... people yell at me for these long posts. ?

 

I probably need to do a tutorial video series on exterior navmeshing, cause it sure seems to confuse a lot of people (it doesn't help any there are a lot of rules about it that aren't written down anywhere, especially when it comes to joining up cell borders).

 

PS - There are more new bandit camps being built that will be added in future updates, there are two more finished, one currently under construction and 6 more beyond that we have locations for and basic concepts worked out.  In all there are plans for a total of 20 new bandit camps plus a number of "special" locations that will be used in the main quest line.  Some of them you might recognize if you play ESO.

 

[pinky6225]

1 hour ago, EinarrTheRed said:

Camp Bonefall Slope in Falkreath, overlooks Lake Illinata from the shadow of Bleak Falls Barrow (formerly Ilinata's Overlook)

 

Just visited that one, when i first got there though the marker was pointing into the ground for the captive - eventually found them under one of the huts and used moveto player on the console to get them to where i could talk to them

[Blackbird Wanderer]

46 minutes ago, pinky6225 said:

Just visited that one, when i first got there though the marker was pointing into the ground for the captive - eventually found them under one of the huts and used moveto player on the console to get them to where i could talk to them

Best guess with that is the proximity trigger failed somehow and never transitioned from strategic mode (go to this general area) to tactical (go to this specific captive).  This has not been seen in testing to date, so it's a good find.  The suggested workaround would be to leave the immediate vicinity (you may see "leaving XXX area" in the upper left) then return.

[Blackbird Wanderer]

4 hours ago, pinky6225 said:

Any idea's why a subjugated one would act differently to one being escorted to a mage for release?

Possibly, since they really are different states.  In the transition there's an Actor.RemoveFromAllFactions call made, then the new Factions added, just to keep things clean in case of unforeseen things with other mods.  When the new Factions are build back, one that was there from Zaz for an AYGAS conflict is no longer there:  ZazSlaveFaction (0x000096AE from Zaz)

 

Best guess is this faction missing from the subjugated is why you're seeing different behavior.  It's easy to add in the scripts if that seems like a need.

[EinarrTheRed]

Quick update on Bthaft, it was a good catch by @Tako-kun  The edits were from the original mod made by pchs.  While they seemed to work they were messy and more extensive than necessary.  I cleaned them out, recopied the navmesh changes from Dawnguard.esm to just the BthaftExterior01 and 02 cells (no deleted navmeshing now) and then edited just one navmesh (FormID 00F62BA) for the area around the added cage, chair and bedrolls and updated the cover edges.  So now it has a smaller footprint and is cleaner than before.  Blackbird has my update, there are some additional issues with that camp are being looked at and Blackbird will make the final call on what to do with it.

 

An now I'm gonna go have breakfast for lunch because I was so busy with this I missed breakfast... and then 2nd breakfast! ?

Edited April 4, 2022 by EinarrTheRed

[Antiope_Apollonia]

On 4/3/2022 at 6:57 PM, EinarrTheRed said:

An it only matters for the dialog hand off, if you want to enslave them, just hit them with paralysis and then enslave them like you would anyone else.  I'm not sure that the dialog hand off shouldn't just be removed entirely, it doesn't actually provide any PAHE benefit (the slave doesn't start with boosted slave stats or anything).  That's something PAHE users could offer some feedback on.

It definitely is possible for them to start with boosted slave stats.  Perhaps you should look into how Slave Jane accomplishes this for guidance.

[EinarrTheRed]

19 minutes ago, Antiope_Apollonia said:

It definitely is possible for them to start with boosted slave stats.

I was just gonna bug TrollAutoKill.  LOL  But yeah if we get all this other stuff sorted, plus all the additional content done, that might get looked into.  I can tell you its a pretty low priority since its not really the focus of this mod. 

[travelmedic]

3 hours ago, EinarrTheRed said:

So yes, some bits of navmesh did get deleted, it got fixed.  Just cause you see something in TES Edit you don't understand doesn't mean its something to scream about.  But I was hoping to avoid posting a wall of text explaining everything... people yell at me for these long posts. ?

 

 

 

Quite to the contrary, that "wall of text" was a really good read.  "Deleted navmeshes will cause issues" is just one of those things that I think has been said and repeated so much by people that most of us just accept it as gospel without understanding why, and I would have to include myself in that group.  Yours was the best (and maybe only) explanation I've ever seen that dealt with deleted or altered navmeshes in detail, but still easily understandable.

 

My one question/concern for you going forward, are any of these navmesh areas you spoke of also addressed by the Unofficial Patches curated by Arthmoor?  Obviously there will have to be changes to account for new tents/cages and whatnot.  As long as everything plays nice together in the end, I think that's the most important thing.

 

PS.  While I'm here I would be remiss if I didn't give a huge shout-out to BW and EtR for all the work and bringing the new and improved SBC to.  I just woke up from my 200 year cryonap and emerged from the Vault, but still it gives me something to really look forward to!

 

 

[worik]

3 hours ago, EinarrTheRed said:

I probably need to do a tutorial video series on exterior navmeshing, cause it sure seems to confuse a lot of people (it doesn't help any there are a lot of rules about it that aren't written down anywhere, especially when it comes to joining up cell borders)

Yes, please

[EinarrTheRed]

12 minutes ago, travelmedic said:

Quite to the contrary, that "wall of text" was a really good read.  "Deleted navmeshes will cause issues" is just one of those things that I think has been said and repeated so much by people that most of us just accept it as gospel without understanding why, and I would have to include myself in that group.  Yours was the best (and maybe only) explanation I've ever seen that dealt with deleted or altered navmeshes in detail, but still easily understandable.

Thank you. ?  That kinda made my day.

 

14 minutes ago, travelmedic said:

My one question/concern for you going forward, are any of these navmesh areas you spoke of also addressed by the Unofficial Patches curated by Arthmoor?  Obviously there will have to be changes to account for new tents/cages and whatnot.  As long as everything plays nice together in the end, I think that's the most important thing.

Most of the time when I am building locations or updating a location I check to see if USLEEP updates it and if so copy that in.  Although in a couple cases I had to fix his updates.  Arthmoor did a lot of great work but sometimes he made mistakes too or just missed things.  So that should not be a worry with any of my original work (like the new bandit camps), but could be a problem with any of the older content (from the original mod) we haven't updated.  We have redone and cleaned a lot of it but there's always things we may have missed... turns out Bthaft was one such case.

 

Speaking of which, through the magic of navcuts (another trick) I've now removed ALL navmesh edits from Bthaft meaning there's no conflict with Dawnguard at all now AND the only edits are to one cell (BthaftExterior01) which adds three bedrolls, a woodpile, a chair, a cookpot, some crates and a a box with some coin bags in it.  All without touching the navmesh at all. ?  Doesn't get much more low impact than that.

 

For those curious what a navcut is...

Spoiler

Navcut boxes are a handy trick for when you want to make temporary changes to a navmesh or just can't change the navmesh for some reason.  In CK they appear as a yellow box around a physical object, like a crate for example, and the box extends down through the floor or ground plane.

 

So what does it do?  It tells the pathing AI to ignore the navmesh in the area covered by the navcut box.  This means its a temporary edit to the navmesh without actually editing the navmesh.  Navcut boxes can be enabled and disabled with scripting, which is handy for drawbridges and other such situations.

 

How do you make one?  In CK select the object(s) you want to create a navcut around, then create a collision box using the tool button.  Size the box until it fits snugly around the object(s) and then pull it down so it goes all the way through the floor and the navmesh (it must fully intersect the navmesh or it won't work properly).  Now edit the box and on the Primitives tab set the layer to L_Navcut.

 

What are the limits of Navcuts?  Navcuts depend on the game engine doing extra processing for NPCs to path around, if there is a lot of script lag NPCs may be slow to recognize the navcut and may still try to path through it.  Also, navcuts don't have cover edges.  So if you're using it for large objects the NPCs won't know how to hide behind it or shoot around it correctly.

 

That's it, all there is too em.  Handy for low impact changes or temporary ones.  You can use them with doors in dungeons for example, so when a gate is closed it cuts the navmesh so NPCs know not to try an go out the door.  Drawbridges are another great use for them.  Trap doors that open, disable it when the trap floor is closed and enable it once its open... NPCs will walk on to the trap door in the floor but once it opens they won't.  They are used extensively in the HF homes for all that craftable furniture.  I'm sure you can think of more uses.

 

Thanks for the shout out. ?

[Wolfshrike]

7 hours ago, Blackbird Wanderer said:

v0.98D won't fix it, but this might.  Quickly cloned Skald's dialogue and shifted it to key on Brina so there should at least be unvoiced dialogue.  Just replace the ESP with this one.

SexyBanditCaptives.esp 3.12 MB · 14 downloads

 

Then the cosmetic changes are an improvement?

So, the good news is it sort of fixed it- she's got all the dialouge now, but it doesn't generate the paper report to give me a target to go to. So I guess it's half fixed?  haha. 

 

So far as cosmetics go, yeah, I like them, though I must admit I feel I'm a little spoiled- I run a lot of excellent mods in that regard from some really talented folks who've handcrafted followers and the like, so my standards are probably a bit skewed. Honestly, so far it's just a matter of finding the right hair and body, I guess...