Sexy Bandit Captives © [WIP] Support Thread

[Blackbird Wanderer]

2 hours ago, tinkerbelle said:

being that the dragon priest (or whatever that lich is) is inside the last section of bleakfalls barrow, that it wouldn't find a bandit leader outside of that cell.  But the ways of skyrim engine are mysterious.

This one there's less mystery.  There's a Form type called a Location, and a given Location can/does have several Cells grouped together.  In this case it includes both interior and exterior cells for BFB.  The original setup wasn't written with game expansion in mind, so of course the developer keyed a process to place the Dragonstone on a Boss tagged character -- it would normally be the only one.  Splitting that exterior cell out of that Location should solve this.

 

Wondering though . . . if you were to start each game from a core saved game whereby everything had already been loaded, this change may not be taking effect.  Are you starting your games that way?

 

2 hours ago, tinkerbelle said:

The things we do to our(virtual)selves ...

Can't help you there if you're a glutton for punishment.

[RomulusAugustulus]

On 9/7/2022 at 3:15 PM, RomulusAugustulus said:

Reporting back after a long holiday and an even longer sick break.

During my sickness I decided to do the jump and I uninstalled SkyrimSE together with all mods to get a fresh start with SkyrimAE.

Installation of the mods went well, the game starts without a problem with "Alternate Start", character creation goes well, then an autosave happens.

After the autosave, I am asked if I accept the rules for SBC, I click agree and save again.

 

Now the trouble starts:

I can load the first autosave without a problem but when I try to load the second one, the game crashes. The logs are full of SBC related errors.

 

To test, I then removed SBC from my load order and now I can load my saves.

 

I'm not aware that this was reported before...

 

I will try to get at least the first stage of the main quest dona and then re-activate SBC to see what happens.

 

Resolved. I could load saves after going outside the cell and then installing SBC.

I remember that some people said one should be careful with alternate start mods but with SE, this has never happened.

[tinkerbelle]

1 hour ago, Blackbird Wanderer said:

This one there's less mystery.  There's a Form type called a Location, and a given Location can/does have several Cells grouped together.  In this case it includes both interior and exterior cells for BFB.  The original setup wasn't written with game expansion in mind, so of course the developer keyed a process to place the Dragonstone on a Boss tagged character -- it would normally be the only one.  Splitting that exterior cell out of that Location should solve this.

 

Wondering though . . . if you were to start each game from a core saved game whereby everything had already been loaded, this change may not be taking effect.  Are you starting your games that way?

 

Can't help you there if you're a glutton for punishment.

Ah, I avoid the creation kit, so I wasn't aware cells could be combined.  I always wondered what the (LOC) type was.  Too bad about the combining, because that spot outside of Bleak Falls Barrow is perfect for a large bandit camp.  But I know that in previous play-throughs, the bandit chief in the camp had the dragonstone ... I just don't have a bandit chief.  I've been back there a few times and still no bandit chief.  I also did the bleak falls barrow run a few times to see if the dragon priest or the bandit chief would have the dragon stone, but no luck.  I also gifted my character the two available dragonstones, but apparently taking it off the cold, dead body of whomever has it is part of the quest script, as that wouldn't mark that part of the quest as done.  I could do some research and find the quest name, it'd be one of the MQ quests, I'd imagine, but I'm lazy and I've done the dragonborn stuff so many times.

 

Wellll, I have an alternate start prison, errr, start.  But that keeps getting updated as I add and subtract mods.  The latest version was saved after the new and improved SBC was re-added.  Then saved again after adding some other mods or making modifications to settings.  I don't think I've updated to SBC V0.98g or at least the latest patches because I think I missed downloading some.  Then I read that the latest combines all the previous ones, so I can only claim laziness.

 

Me?  A glutton for punishment?  I'm just a meek, little mouse.  My character, however, she loves to play, "Perils of Dragonborn" and gets into all kinds of trouble.  Silly gal.

 

If you wish to be a hero, write a mod which can save mod parameters even if the mod wasn't designed to save and load parameters.  I absolutely hate starting from scratch since I can't remember half of my changes to mods.

 

[Kharadin]

22 hours ago, Blackbird Wanderer said:

Should be instantaneous upon returning to Dris with the completed translation.  If not, try console: "StartQuest SBCRecovery" and see what it tells you about known and unknown camps.  That should at least help identify the nature of the problem.

Thanks! Typed it in the most recent save, gave me empty parenthesis () in all 9 slots both for known and unknown camp locations (1st captive was in Redoran's Retreat). Reloaded the save before handing translation to Uvani and handed it to him again, went to innkeeper and Jarl Steward, still nothing. SBCRecovery gives () again. Can Papyrus log help or?..

[Blackbird Wanderer]

17 hours ago, EinarrTheRed said:

I thought we'd fixed that.  And yes it looks for a boss at that area and surprisingly that includes the exterior instead of just the interior.  Removing that exterior cell from the Bleakfalls location will fix it.  Could of sworn we'd done that already though.

Just verified that BleakFallsBarrowExterior02 which is where that camp is located is not part of any Location.  So something especially odd is happening there that will bear investigating.

 

54 minutes ago, Kharadin said:

Thanks! Typed it in the most recent save, gave me empty parenthesis () in all 9 slots both for known and unknown camp locations (1st captive was in Redoran's Retreat). Reloaded the save before handing translation to Uvani and handed it to him again, went to innkeeper and Jarl Steward, still nothing. SBCRecovery gives () again. Can Papyrus log help or?..

Maybe a tailored script with some steps verified with Debug notifications/Messageboxes.  This is the first notice of things failing at this point if memory serves.

[shardoom]

4 hours ago, Blackbird Wanderer said:

Just verified that BleakFallsBarrowExterior02 which is where that camp is located is not part of any Location.  So something especially odd is happening there that will bear investigating.

 

 

 

Maybe you could just get rid of that camp, it doesnt fit the natural early game progression at all anyway.

Edited September 9, 2022 by shardoom

[tinkerbelle]

6 hours ago, Blackbird Wanderer said:

Just verified that BleakFallsBarrowExterior02 which is where that camp is located is not part of any Location.  So something especially odd is happening there that will bear investigating.

Leave it to me to break something.      Is the camp outside of bleak falls barrow part of SBC?

 

[EinarrTheRed]

19 minutes ago, tinkerbelle said:

Is the camp outside of bleak falls barrow part of SBC?

Yup.

[Blackbird Wanderer]

10 hours ago, shardoom said:

Maybe you could just get rid of that camp, it doesnt fit the natural early game progression at all anyway.

One of the prevailing themes of SBC is that the Player character isn't naturally omnipotent and not everything they may face is within their capabilities.  Cast in that light, it seems to fit perfectly, IMHO.

 

16 hours ago, tinkerbelle said:

Too bad about the combining, because that spot outside of Bleak Falls Barrow is perfect for a large bandit camp.

Indeed.

 

Also verified exit route works, though it's dicey with a low level sneak because you keep getting detected.  However, there's enough room to either hide behind a rock, or move back on the pathway to wait for the "searching" eye to close and you're on your way without the whole camp chasing you.

 

Working on solving the Dragon Stone issue if you're willing to test.  LE, right?

[worik]

1 hour ago, Blackbird Wanderer said:

Also verified exit route works, though it's dicey with a low level sneak because you keep getting detected.  However, there's enough room to either hide behind a rock, or move back on the pathway to wait for the "searching" eye to close and you're on your way without the whole camp chasing you.

I managed to do that multiple times as a L1 COC'd character. Various builds, some better, some worse.

It's a bit tricky with a vanilla follower (a.k.a. "moron").  Some of them are just too stupid to survive.

But it's really fun to RP your exit there

 

[tinkerbelle]

11 hours ago, EinarrTheRed said:

Yup.

Right after I wrote that, my conscience said, "Tink, get those lazy fingers to work and check it out yourself".  So I did, although it was a level 1 character straight out of the alt-start prison, so naturally there was no dragonstone, but the camp did belong to SBC.  Before, I did the bleak falls barrow run a couple of times to see if the stone would be with the dragon priest, but nope, the marker was still in the camp where a non-existent bandit leader would be.

 

2 hours ago, Blackbird Wanderer said:

Also verified exit route works, though it's dicey with a low level sneak because you keep getting detected.  However, there's enough room to either hide behind a rock, or move back on the pathway to wait for the "searching" eye to close and you're on your way without the whole camp chasing you.

 

Working on solving the Dragon Stone issue if you're willing to test.  LE, right?

I'm always up to testing such a fine mod.  Still playing LE, the new computer sits in an unfinished room waiting for me to finish loading Win7 updates so I can downgrade to Win10 for free.  Tell me what I need to do.  If it involves older saves, I might need to dig them out of the recycle bin.  I did some save pruning, not too long ago.  Otherwise, I'll just run a new character.  I probably should mention that this is without having started the SBC quests, although I did have SBC V0.97something in the mod list.  I've since put V0.98g and it's patch 4 into the mod list.

 

I'm getting the feeling that I'm the only one experiencing the outdoor dragonstone.  So, perhaps a mod I'm running is interfering.

 

[Blackbird Wanderer]

7 minutes ago, tinkerbelle said:

I'm getting the feeling that I'm the only one experiencing the outdoor dragonstone.  So, perhaps a mod I'm running is interfering.

Perhaps the mod, or the load order.  Is there anything that you have loading after SBC?  Anything that overwrites that change would recreate the problem.

 

The weirdest part of all this is you can run a test game and immediately console PRID the Draugr Boss from BFB (9BCD6) then INV and it will show the Dragon Stone in their inventory before anything else has happened.  No Golden Claw (M13) or Bleak Falls Barrow (MQ103) starts even needed to put it there.

[tinkerbelle]

26 minutes ago, Blackbird Wanderer said:

Perhaps the mod, or the load order.  Is there anything that you have loading after SBC?  Anything that overwrites that change would recreate the problem.

 

The weirdest part of all this is you can run a test game and immediately console PRID the Draugr Boss from BFB (9BCD6) then INV and it will show the Dragon Stone in their inventory before anything else has happened.  No Golden Claw (M13) or Bleak Falls Barrow (MQ103) starts even needed to put it there.

I put SBC near the end of the list, followed by the usual suspects (altstart, CCAS, etc.), but the load order (after looting) puts SBC just before the middle.

 

Hmmm, I kind of had the idea that maybe the quest was set to put the dragonstone on the biggest, baddest boss in the area and either genesis or sd cages was creating a bigger, badder boss than the draugr boss, but that idea doesn't add up with your test.  The draugr boss I killed in the barrow didn't have the stone, as he usually would.  My memory (which is not reliable) is that since adding genesis and SD cages that the dragonstone is now found on the outdoor bandit chief and a particular one, there's usually several bandit chiefs.

 

I can easily believe that one bethesda programmer made the draugr boss with the stone, another programmer removed the stone via the quest and programmed the quest to add it to a boss.  It's also possible, albeit unlikely, that a mod I have changes the placement of the dragonstone, but I have nothing which specifically changes bleak fall barrows.   Wellll, one mod adds an adventurer who lost battles with draugr and became their plaything, but I seriously doubt they changed the dragonstone placement.  Oh, genesis and sd cages ups the nujmber of draugr.  Oh, and one of the wenches mods adds more draugr and some dangerous eye candy.  I think that's all (isn't that enough?).

 

I think today, while awaiting testing instructions, is to make a new profile, move SBC a bit later in the mod list, make certain loot doesn't move it again, and re-try while taking note of who made the bandit chief who stole the stone.

 

[OptionalLemon]

22 hours ago, tinkerbelle said:

If you wish to be a hero, write a mod which can save mod parameters even if the mod wasn't designed to save and load parameters.  I absolutely hate starting from scratch since I can't remember half of my changes to mods.

You could give MCM Recorder a try: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/61719

Works very well with most mods.

[Kharadin]

21 hours ago, Blackbird Wanderer said:

Maybe a tailored script with some steps verified with Debug notifications/Messageboxes.  This is the first notice of things failing at this point if memory serves.

I see! I'll maybe try to see if the error occurs on the new game, maybe that particular playthrough is borked. Though there are no other signs of... borking, apart from no second captive spawn. I thought, maybe I added some other mod after first captive and before handing over the translation, but no, no added mods.

 

2 hours ago, tinkerbelle said:

I'm getting the feeling that I'm the only one experiencing the outdoor dragonstone.  So, perhaps a mod I'm running is interfering.

Dragonstone spawned where it was supposed to for me (now stuck with 25 dead weight since my PC is not a Dragonborn, or at least she's not doing those quests at the moment). Wanted to comment, but than saw that you were running Genesis and mentioned some "dragon priest" and thought "well, maybe that's Genesis messing, I don't have a dragon priest in Bleak Falls Barrow, just the usual draugr scourge/lord".

[tinkerbelle]

1 hour ago, Kharadin said:

Dragonstone spawned where it was supposed to for me (now stuck with 25 dead weight since my PC is not a Dragonborn, or at least she's not doing those quests at the moment). Wanted to comment, but than saw that you were running Genesis and mentioned some "dragon priest" and thought "well, maybe that's Genesis messing, I don't have a dragon priest in Bleak Falls Barrow, just the usual draugr scourge/lord".

You could bring it Farangar (or whatever his name is), but that means you'd need to fight the dragon.  Then you could go do other stuff.

 

Ah, I probably misnamed the bleak falls barrow boss.  The one which rises from the coffin, floats in the air.  It's that guy, the draugr scourge/lord/thing.  I didn't check his id, but I'm pretty he was standard.

 

[tinkerbelle]

2 hours ago, OptionalLemon said:

You could give MCM Recorder a try: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/61719

Works very well with most mods.

Thanks, I'll check that out later.

 

[shardoom]

7 hours ago, Blackbird Wanderer said:

One of the prevailing themes of SBC is that the Player character isn't naturally omnipotent and not everything they may face is within their capabilities.  Cast in that light, it seems to fit perfectly, IMHO.

 

I mean thats cool n all. But, putting in a full boss level bandit camp at basically the very start of the game?!

See this mod in every other aspect blends into the game world extremely well. In normal skyrim gameplay there are places that you dont go to at level 5 because you will be exterminated. The difference is the game doesnt make you go to them. Sneaking this hard bandit camp in at the exit to the games very first dungeon? Yeah, i don't like it. It spoils it for me. It simply doesn't FIT in the place it has been put.

 

It honestly feels like it was put there to troll anyone doing the main quest to become a dragonborn.

[tinkerbelle]

OK, setup a new profile, eliminated all saves but the latest alt-start.  Move sbc just before CCAS, alt-start in the mod list.  In the load order, SBC was at 0x5A, moved SBC to a similar spot as in the mod list.  Looted the order, but SBC ended up just slightly down from where it was (0x5C).  Tried it, Saw the dragon in Helgen, visited Farangar, went through Bleak Falls Barrow (BFB), killed the BFB boss (who was vanilla), no dragonstone.  Went outside, console killed all the bandits, Marker was in the usual spot in the bandit camp, but no bandit there.  Bandit chiefs didn't have a stone either.

I've done this run so many times I think I could sleep walk it.  I'm pretty certain the dragonstone marker moved about the time I added SD cages, but Genesis was added about that time, too.  I'm not certain I've ever seen a genesis bandit, unless they're labeled in the standard way.  Lots of SD Cages Badass bandits.  Previous play throughs did have a bandit with the stone.

 

For fun, I did SQS/setstage MQ103 and at least that worked.  I think, I didn't actually run off to see the wizard, the wonderful wizard of whiterun, but the quest updated.

 

Did another run, this time moving SBC to about 0xFC in the mod order.  Forgot to go to helgen first, but I've done that in the past, and had the dragonstone on me when I talked to Farengar.  Did the Bleak Falls Barrow (BFB) run.  No dragonstone, no marker for it (but I wouldn't expect the marker to be there).  Went to Helgen, talked to Farengar, went to Boneslope something bandit camp.  No bandits (they were dead from before), marker says the stone is in BFB go in and search the draugr lord and chest, no stone.  Marker is at the exit now.  Go back out, marker is on BFB.  Go to the front, marker on door, enter BFB, marker is on BFB-Sanctum, go through again, marker on exit.

I know that previous plays, everything worked except a bandit had the stone (or was it in a big chest?).  I don't think I've added anything, but I did update SD cages/Skyrim Utility and Prison Overhaul.  Oh, and updated Billy's animations.  Oh, and updated Buxom Wench Yuriana.

Edited September 9, 2022 by tinkerbelle

[tinkerbelle]

2 hours ago, shardoom said:

 

I mean thats cool n all. But, putting in a full boss level bandit camp at basically the very start of the game?!

See this mod in every other aspect blends into the game world extremely well. In normal skyrim gameplay there are places that you dont go to at level 5 because you will be exterminated. The difference is the game doesnt make you go to them. Sneaking this hard bandit camp in at the exit to the games very first dungeon? Yeah, i don't like it. It spoils it for me. It simply doesn't FIT in the place it has been put.

 

It honestly feels like it was put there to troll anyone doing the main quest to become a dragonborn.

I see both sides.  It is a tough camp, especially if one has bandit buffing mods.  But there is an out, just sneak north on the ledge and you won't need to deal with the bandits.  Poke your head over the side and the starting character will quickly learn to back off, or they can become the camp slave toy/or die*

*depending on loaded mods

 

[karlpaws]

5 hours ago, Kharadin said:

saw that you were running Genesis and mentioned some "dragon priest" and thought "well, maybe that's Genesis messing, I don't have a dragon priest in Bleak Falls Barrow, just the usual draugr scourge/lord".

 

4 hours ago, tinkerbelle said:

Ah, I probably misnamed the bleak falls barrow boss.  The one which rises from the coffin, floats in the air.  It's that guy, the draugr scourge/lord/thing.  I didn't check his id, but I'm pretty he was standard.

 

 

Most sites where there is a draugr boss, the boss is leveled and dragon priests (the floating ones) are options in some cases. You might instead get some other kind of draugr or Draugr Lord, all dependent on level. I think you need to be 50 for the priests to show up in those cases.  There are other places where you will always have a priest because the encounter level of the dungeon is high enough or there is a named boss like the mask bearing priests.

[EinarrTheRed]

10 hours ago, tinkerbelle said:

Hmmm, I kind of had the idea that maybe the quest was set to put the dragonstone on the biggest, baddest boss in the area and either genesis or sd cages was creating a bigger, badder boss than the draugr boss, but that idea doesn't add up with your test.  The draugr boss I killed in the barrow didn't have the stone, as he usually would.  My memory (which is not reliable) is that since adding genesis and SD cages that the dragonstone is now found on the outdoor bandit chief and a particular one, there's usually several bandit chiefs.

Here's the thing though.

 

The quest looks for any "boss", whether its the Draugr Boss that's supposed to be in Bleakfalls, or a bandit chief flagged as a boss if they happen to be in a exterior cell thats listed as part of the location.  If there are two "bosses" then there's a 50/50 chance either will have it.  If you have 2 bandit chiefs outside, then its a 66% chance one of them will have it and a 33% the draugr will have it.  You get the idea.  The more bandit bosses added outside, the more chance one of them ends up with it.

 

But, when we first discovered this problem we figured that out (about a year ago) and removed that exterior cell from being part of the BleakFalls Barrow location, so it shouldn't be happening.  That's why Blackbird is wondering if something is overwriting the change and adding that exterior cell back in as part of the location.  I tend to think that must be what's happening because the way the scripting that places the stone works, it can only happen if that exterior cell is part of the BFB location.

 

For the stone not to be in any boss NPC is odd, unless they were all dead before placement was triggered because IIRC it can't place the stone in a dead boss because a dead boss isn't valid to fill the alias.

 

[tinkerbelle]

1 hour ago, EinarrTheRed said:

Here's the thing though.

 

The quest looks for any "boss", whether its the Draugr Boss that's supposed to be in Bleakfalls, or a bandit chief flagged as a boss if they happen to be in a exterior cell thats listed as part of the location.  If there are two "bosses" then there's a 50/50 chance either will have it.  If you have 2 bandit chiefs outside, then its a 66% chance one of them will have it and a 33% the draugr will have it.  You get the idea.  The more bandit bosses added outside, the more chance one of them ends up with it.

 

But, when we first discovered this problem we figured that out (about a year ago) and removed that exterior cell from being part of the BleakFalls Barrow location, so it shouldn't be happening.  That's why Blackbird is wondering if something is overwriting the change and adding that exterior cell back in as part of the location.  I tend to think that must be what's happening because the way the scripting that places the stone works, it can only happen if that exterior cell is part of the BFB location.

 

For the stone not to be in any boss NPC is odd, unless they were all dead before placement was triggered because IIRC it can't place the stone in a dead boss because a dead boss isn't valid to fill the alias.

 

That sounds reasonable, except the part that it shouldn't be happening    Too bad they didn't put it in the draugr's chest, er, the furniture, not his anatomy.  I think I've seen as many as 3 bandit chiefs at once in any one location.  In the second test, I had wiped out the camp and the draugr before getting Farengar's quest to get the stone, so no bosses, no place for the stone.  I don't know why the initial run didn't work, it consistently placed the marker on the floor of the hut in the south-west (I think, my sense of direction gets a little messed up at times.  It would be the corner furthest from Riverwood.

 

Is there a way for me to see if the bandit camp is part of bleak falls barrow location in my game without using the CK?   When I use it, I learn too much and that destroys my immersion.

In my game, the bandit camp is right up against the cliffs, if that's any indication.

 

[EinarrTheRed]

Few points to keep in mind.  Just being a "bandit chief" doesn't actually make them a "boss".  Any NPC can be a boss, it depends on whether they are flagged as being a location boss in CK.  So mods could add bandit chiefs to the camp and they still wouldn't be bosses unless the mod author also flagged them that way.  Doing so is kind of dumb though, a location is supposed to only have one boss for a reason, more than one will confuse radiant quests and other things that expect to find only one boss.

 

Regarding the location, no, there's no in game way that I know of to check to see what location a cell is part of.  It might be possible to add a script that displays a debug msg that says what location you are in as you walk around the map, I'm pretty sure that's possible.

 

You could check in CK or in TES Edit.  TES Edit might be better because you could check all your mods and also look for cell conflicts to see if anything else is editing those cells.  Not sure if you know how to do that, if not I could try to explain its not that hard really.

 

And yes, the camp is nestled right up against the cliffs, right where I put it. ?

[tinkerbelle]

14 hours ago, karlpaws said:

Most sites where there is a draugr boss, the boss is leveled and dragon priests (the floating ones) are options in some cases. You might instead get some other kind of draugr or Draugr Lord, all dependent on level. I think you need to be 50 for the priests to show up in those cases.  There are other places where you will always have a priest because the encounter level of the dungeon is high enough or there is a named boss like the mask bearing priests.

Thanks, karlpaws.  All the times I've played and I never noticed that some of the draugr bosses changed from varying conditions.  I probably, actually I know, do things in a certain order and saw the same level boss each time.