Changing load order causes problems

[Guest]

> In short: my husband installed Skyrim and he still install mods to our acquaintance who is very mod hungry, especially sexual ones from LL. So, whenever he install new mod(s) he is required to sort the load order. He is doing it manually sometimes, but he is using Loot most of the time becaus ehe is not expert for Skyrim as many of you are. Well, it permanently affect some mods (body textures - gray head at some NPCs). The frustrating thing is that starting new game and reverting the mods to working load order and reinstalling those mods doesn't fix the problem. Once the load order is changed during the game the problem is permanent. And my Prince is furious about Loot. Every time he uses it it change some mods' position unnecessarily. He doesn't know what to do and he is at the edge. Anyone,  any suggestion, please?

 

[worik]

?

Once I have my load order set, I don't let anything touch it.

Adding/or removing mods to an existing game is usually not recommended, but for trying out new stuff, I do that manually.

 

Having loot as a general sorting tool is good practise and usually recopmmended, but is isn't good enough by default in huge and advanced setups.

Loot uses a universal ruleset, loaded and updated from the internet, but you can create your own local rules to override that.

The step that I SHOULD have done in the past, is to transcribe my individual load order into those localized rules for loot. (But I was too lazy and I didn't)

 

Disadvantage

• need to learn how to write Loot rules
• much work to create all you local rules for loot and for each of your mods

Advantage

• no more annoying interference from loot
• have a repeatable load order
• boosting your ego at least up to the double size, because you conquered another tricky tool

 

For my next setup, I will take the "conqueror" route.  => This might be the solution for you, too. ?

[invisible]

I learned that LOOT breaks your game when you try to use it with too many mods (example with Alternate start being placed in the center of the order breaking the mod, as its supposed to load as last instead.), so what I have been doing is manually place stuff in the correct order or at least try to do so and see if its working without any issues or errors in game. Once I confirm that there are no issues with the game, I make a backup for both the plugins list and load order list, because then you can just revert back to the correct working load order if you break something when you by accident ruin the load order or plugin order.

[worik]

Loot documentation: https://loot.readthedocs.io/en/stable/

 

and the sorting stuff : https://loot-api.readthedocs.io/en/stable/api/sorting.html

[Dodzh]

2 hours ago, worik said:

Once I have my load order set, I don't let anything touch it.

this is might me the most important advice ever on Skyrim modding 

[Guest]

> Thanks a lot for very good tips, folks. ❤️I passed the tips and links to my Prince. He is trying hard to help the kid and I think that he simply forgot on fundamental "rule" such as: don't install new mods on ongoing game.

Special hugs, thanks and kisses to Mrs. @worik ?

[worik]

47 minutes ago, Evaloves4 said:

He is trying hard to help the kid and I think that he simply forgot on fundamental "rule" such as: don't install new mods on ongoing game.

Well, you can do that, but you have to be desperately on your tip-toes and really plan ahead and in detail what's going to happen. And have your back-out plan at hand when it won't work.

 

47 minutes ago, Evaloves4 said:

Special hugs, thanks and kisses to Mrs. @worik ?

I'll try my best.

?

[Grey Cloud]

As always, I strongly disagree about all this worry over changing the load order. On the odd (3 maybe)* occasions LOOT has got it wrong a simple metadata rule makes things work as I want.

Metadata rules are simple enough and there are videos out there.

 

* As far as I remember these have all been related to NPC overhauls.

[Guest]

21 minutes ago, Grey Cloud said:

As always, I strongly disagree about all this worry over changing the load order. On the odd (3 maybe)* occasions LOOT has got it wrong a simple metadata rule makes things work as I want.

Metadata rules are simple enough and there are videos out there.

 

* As far as I remember these have all been related to NPC overhauls.

> Yes.

[Harvald]

As always I say I do not like Loot and I do not use it. As a Modder I say, many modders cause a big bunch of mess. The only thing to create a game that does not have issues is mocleaning by hand with tes5edit. For me loadorder isn´t really a problem or merging many mods. Only one mod to do one change on one object. The rest has to be cleaned out, because it is garbage. 

 

So I say: Learn how to clean mods.

[worik]

4 hours ago, Grey Cloud said:

* As far as I remember these have all been related to NPC overhauls.

And loot fails with merges.. that's where you need to intervene, too.

[Grey Cloud]

1 minute ago, worik said:

And loot fails with merges.. that's where you need to intervene, too.

I don't have lot of merges (if you ignore the 26 x 10-followers merges ?) so it's not something I've experienced.

[Pamatronic]

23 minutes ago, Grey Cloud said:

I don't have lot of merges (if you ignore the 26 x 10-followers merges ?) so it's not something I've experienced.

I guess if you merge something yourself, it doesn't have any metadata LOOT could use, so this isn't surprising. And for followers overhauls, its usually like this: largest first, individuals last.

But on another point about loot being usefull or not, do people really use it every time they install a new mod?

maybe that's just me, but if I install single mods midplay, its usually not that difficlut to just sort them manually in the order.

[Grey Cloud]

2 hours ago, Pamatronic said:

But on another point about loot being usefull or not, do people really use it every time they install a new mod?

100 mods or 1 mod = 1 click with LOOT or 0 clicks with Vortex's autosort. Neither option requires reading esp names to see where the new mod needs to go or the dragging n dropping to get the mod in the correct place.

[donttouchmethere]

13 minutes ago, Grey Cloud said:

1 mod = 1 click with LOOT

I like those odds ?

[worik]

9 hours ago, Pamatronic said:

if I install single mods midplay, its usually not that difficlut to just sort them manually in the order.

Indeed. That's why I usually don't touch it.

Though, once I am in my experiment with my 100% own rule set, it might be interesting to see what loot would "recommend"  ?

[Gukahn]

13 hours ago, Pamatronic said:

But on another point about loot being usefull or not, do people really use it every time they install a new mod?

maybe that's just me, but if I install single mods midplay, its usually not that difficlut to just sort them manually in the order.

I do vortex Sorting every time i install a new mod mid game yes, but i also only install bigger ones when i already considered making an entire new save so the Load order changes don't screw up anything in my game. It all depends i guess, but i use most functions of my mod manager so i apply many rules and do set some mods to never change their spot. If i update a mod, sometimes vortex want to load after mods the older one was sorted before and i change it back the way it was. Then i go testing. After a big un and install for a bigger change i had to set new rules so sexlab and Zaz for example get loaded correct after each other. (for whatever reason, Vortex wanted to load Zaz before Sexlab.. And i don't have to be a mod author to know that that might be not a good idea.)

 

So yes i run it everytime but i look where it gets sorted and check if it should be where it lands. 9 out of 10 it works, the 10th time forces a new game and the very very rare fuck ups (because i am still a mod hungry idiot.) Who force me to overthink my LO get solved with logic on my end or XEdit/SSEdit.  Last one i don't even touch that much..

 

[MaxRex]

"husband, acquaintance who is very mod hungry, especially sexual ones, He is doing it manually sometimes, frustrating, Prince is furious, any suggestion, please?"

Hmm...Your acquaintance could help... you know , he could organize a loadorder for you ... if you understand me

[Guest]

37 minutes ago, MaxRex said:

"husband, acquaintance who is very mod hungry, especially sexual ones, He is doing it manually sometimes, frustrating, Prince is furious, any suggestion, please?"

Hmm...Your acquaintance could help... you know , he could organize a loadorder for you ... if you understand me

> I understand what you are saying, but he knows only little and it is insufficient. My husband access his computer via Team Viewer and install mods and similar.

[Grey Cloud]

1 hour ago, Gukahn said:

So yes i run it everytime

What part of 'auto' do you not understand? ?

[Gukahn]

16 minutes ago, Grey Cloud said:

What part of 'auto' do you not understand? ?

I mean yes it exists and i could very well use it, but i don't have auto sorting enabled. Some of my weird quirks ? I hate it when things do stuff without me activating them.

[Grey Cloud]

17 minutes ago, Gukahn said:

I hate it when things do stuff without me activating them.

It's a fine line between cautious and lazy. I prefer the lazy side of the line. ?

[Pamatronic]

3 hours ago, Evaloves4 said:

> I understand what you are saying, but he knows only little and it is insufficient. My husband access his computer via Team Viewer and install mods and similar.

That sounds like a challenge for the masochistically inclined:

Play skyrim, but you have to do it over teamviewer. (Bonus points if you can do it with GuitarHero controller).

 

But seriously, have you thought about just doing the setup on a local machine, and then just upload the mod archives and the loadorder after evrything works?

That is propably a lot less painfull.

[Pamatronic]

2 hours ago, Grey Cloud said:

I prefer the lazy side of the line. ?

carefull here, next time some newbie asks about a premade modlist, you cant tell him to stop being lazy and learn how to do it.

[Tlam99]

On LE Loot is ok, but don't use it mid game, if SE and FE, esl mods installed.

Digits 4-6 are part of reference. Changing order changes reference.