Why Steam for Skyrim is legally dangerous for you

[lebac]

If you are in Europe' date=' Russia, Asia, you probably risk nothing or a fine if they even care about it.[/quote']

 

I am just finally relieved that someone recognized Russia as a continent!

[GSBmodders]

the thing you should worry about the most is not Steam but a US government program called Project Reynard.

 

The NSA, CIA, FBI and other US Government agencies are monitoring online games, gaming forums and for the most part anything to do with gaming. This officially went into effect in 2008 and the nice comforting thought is that under the patriot act US Government agencies are green lighted to violate your civil rights any way they damn well please.

 

You can read up about it here

 

http://singularityhub.com/2011/08/24/al-qaeda-in-azeroth-terrorism-recruiting-and-training-in-virtual-worlds/

 

here

http://www.gamefront.com/project-reynard-a-new-us-spy-project/

 

here

http://massively.joystiq.com/2008/06/12/pbs-bill-moyers-journal-on-project-reynard/

 

or just google

“Project Reynard”

 

 

They do not just look for terrorists either, this is now being used to look for all criminal activity. It should also be noted that the FBI, CIA, ATF and for the most part all US law enforcement agencies have an extremely broad idea of what criminal or terrorist activity is.

 

Should they decide to label you as being a terrorist or associating with them you can be detained almost indefinitely without ever being charged with a crime, being permitted to speak to a lawyer or even contact your family. Your not even safe from this by being a citizen of a foreign nation either. these laws allow for US law enforcement and military to pretty much abduct anyone any where in the world.

 

Even if they do not pay you a visit, potentially harmful information about you can be collected and then filed away. You may think nothing of it now but later on life when you are denied a security clearance.

Rememember to slap your forehead and say "doh"

[Symon]

Heads up:-

 

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/11/13/steam_confirms_credit_card_database_attacked/

 

I know people are busy playing (and cursing) the game but watch out people.

Since the card data was encrypted, it may not be usable to the attackers, operating under the handle fkn0wned. However, according to the Washington Post and others, the e-mail from founder Gabe Newell advised customers to watch their credit card statements for evidence of misuse.

If I had a Steam Account, I'd want firm Answers from them and Bethesda!

It isn't clear if there is any actual risk, and I suspect neither know (yet).

[dakken1]

There is a way to run the game without running steam. Once installed you can bypass steam if you want to and know how. And I dont mean offline mode. Steam does not even load. go to

C:\Program Files\Steam\steamapps\common\skyrim

. click the tesv icon. I created a shortcut on my desktop for easy use. No steam. enjoy.

[Symon]

Indeed, but according to the 'Official' forums, you are not supposed to do this.

Worse, you do have to connect to get patches, of which I imagine there will be many.

[dakken1]

Indeed' date=' but according to the 'Official' forums, you are not supposed to do this.

Worse, you do have to connect to get patches, of which I imagine there will be many.

[/quote']

 

you speak truth my friend, but at least its a start. I will use it until I find a better way to avoid Steam. It allows me to control a bit more of the process.

[sora3]

@ Symon, at least Valve had the guts to go 'Something has gone wrong and we seriously apologise for it.' Compared to Sony who treats their customer base as idiots, Valve values their customers by notifying them ASAP.

 

@ dakken, alternatively, you could just get a crack and play it if you so wanted. No one is forcing you to legitimately use Steam. But then again, expect the multitude of bugs associated with cracked games.

[GSBmodders]

@ dakken' date=' alternatively, you could just get a crack and play it if you so wanted. No one is forcing you to legitimately use Steam. But then again, expect the multitude of bugs associated with cracked games.

[/quote']

 

If you down load just any groups release like an idiot you will of course get a cracked game with loads of bugs. Stick with known teams with good reps and you will most likely end up with a game no worse then retail and sometimes better.

 

I forget what developer it was but I do remember a few years back one of them stole the code from a groups crack of the game to use in an official patch.

 

 

 

[wunderbar]

I thought that the credit card and account info was heavily encrypted, though? Like, high-level, you would need weeks to get into, kind of encryption? Plus, it was more of a, "They broke into a server, and there's a possibility that they saw this information", rather than a definitive "they stole it." As far as I can tell, fkn0wned were just a buncha idiots who hacked a vBulletin forum to advertise their leet tf2 hacks.

 

And, hell, at elast Valve had encryption, unlike coughsonycough.

 

And yeah, cracked release of Skyrim currently has a butt load of bugs - but then again, I've seen some of these bugs from the legit version, too. I know rzr's release was having some kind of voice problems.

[GSBmodders]

I know rzr's release was having some kind of voice problems.

 

rzr also released a patch that fixes the issues

 

[DocClox]

@ dakken' date=' alternatively, you could just get a crack and play it if you so wanted. No one is forcing you to legitimately use Steam.

[/quote']

 

Well, strictly speaking, Valve are trying fairly hard to do exactly that.

 

Which isn't to say that dakken doesn't have other options. He just doesn't have any other options with aren't in violation of the licence.

[KillingSun]

I just use a crack...

[wunderbar]

I know rzr's release was having some kind of voice problems.

 

rzr also released a patch that fixes the issues

 

 

Yeah. It was an issue with a quest, right?

 

Also, the Black Box release was actually missing the entire Sounds.bsa file.

[HentaiGnome]

If this was the case, a lot of users would go to jail. So many, in fact, that there wouldn't be enough prison cells to hold them in. I wouldn't worry about this at all. Besides, isn't it kind of too late to be worrying about it, anyway?

[Drugas]

Steam... I remember eagerly awaiting HL2. I remember that it came out at a timeframe when I had no access to the internet. It was a single player game though. No worries, right?

I should have read the box. Of course even if I had I wouldn't have believed it.

 

People have called me paranoid about Steam since then. They've said I have to get used to it, it's the wave of the future.

I don't buy any games that require steam or attempt to install it now. I try to avoid games that are "Also available Via Steam" even.

 

I will be getting Skyrim, because I believe it will replace Oblivion as the primary platform of Lovers. I will not be getting it legally for myself, unless Bethesda responds to a letter I intend to send them requesting a version that has no steam in it.

 

In the meantime, my brother got it, so I'll play it on his computer.

 

 

As for paranoia about what steam can and cannot do...

 

Once upon a time in a land far away, EA was not evil. Birds chirpped over the primitive thing that was called the internet, and EA were the good guys, standing up for early gamers!

As time went on, EA's corporate structure changed, and eventually through many tiny decisions, they became the group people think are so evil today.

Once upon a time, in a land called Ancient Greece, people would create statues that were designed for women to sacrifice their virginity on them. Men and young boys would have sexual relationships and it would be considered normal. As time went on, different cultural views entered this land. Eventually homosexuality was outlawed. Through determined effort in the relatively short past though, things have finally reversed and consenting males are allowed to have a relationship. The end, for now.

 

I personally have a very open view of sex. I feel that anything is fair game between two consenting Adults, and don't see anything wrong with fictional items in any way, shape, or form. I acknowledge that some people have difficulty recognizing fact from fiction, but I don't honestly believe that this will cause further harm to women or children.

 

As for assertions that there is nothing Illegal here, because child porn is not allowed here... In some countries, depictions of rape are very illegal. A huge portion of the mods here deal with rape.

 

Is Steam likely to start scanning the individual computers in the near future? No. Have they reserved the right to do so? Yes. If they start, is it possible for governmental organizations to use this information to do stuff that the company has no desire to deal with?

Yes

 

Is it paranoia? Only as long as people aren't really out to get you. The problem is, anything you put online has a good possibility of being there for the rest of your life. A little paranoia is healthy to protect you better at some time in the future when it might not be paranoia. Times change, sometimes faster than you think.

 

So I'll go buy myself a tinfoil hat and put in storage. It might be useful someday.

[gregathit]

Drugas, you are aware that you can get the game via retail or steam and then play offline right??? If steam is offline they can't scan or do anything else. When you find out about an update being released just turn the steam offline mod to online download the update and turn it back to offline......

 

I guess I just don't understand all the concern. Sure be aware but more than that is just paranoia...which is unhealthy by the way!! Seems such a shame to miss out on a great game but to each his own.......

[afro-herbalist]

we can't actually rape a human and have the excuse "I was in pursuit of happiness"

 

This thread was legally boring, until I read that, LMAO! I swear if I hear about a rapist on BBC News, quoting this as his excuse....

[Drugas]

gregathit, I am an avid hater of Steam. I am very familiar with what I can/cannot do regarding it, because it directly influences what games I will and will not buy.

 

So yes, I am aware I can buy it in a retail store, and that after I install the malware that I don't approve of and connect to the internet with such malware to prove that I have the code they put in the box with their game, I can officially unplug my computer from the internet and still have the ability to play it. That fact is immaterial to anything I have ever said regarding steam though.

 

 

If I said I have this wonderful taco that you bought, and that you were free to eat it, and had a policy of requiring you to step in feces to eat it, would the fact that you don't have to stand in the feces change the fact that you paid money and now were expected to step in feces for your product?

That's my view on steam.

 

My hatred from Steam doesn't automatically validate anything I have said, nor does it automatically validate any of it.

 

The important thing to remember is that with the Internet, ANYTHING you do can be up for ever. I can still find stuff that I did in my youth that I'm pretty ashamed of. Stuff done in the 1990s. The descriptions of some mods I made in 1998 for Starcraft can still be read in one particular location, although the mod itself is long gone. I'd link it, but I tend to keep separation from all my old handles for a reason. Someone who was very clever could probably piece them together and have quite a lot of embarrassing information on me. Thankfully nothing that's a video

 

As such, and because of the legalease Steam has, it is important to be cautious about your rights, and what protections you enjoy. There is no assurance they will remain the same, although activities you have engaged in online can easily stay for all the world to see. It's not like Steam will save your information as grapical media. Probably more like Text files. Hard drive contents index file would be what, maybe 5 megabytes if it was just a listing of everything?

 

Let's assume 7 billion people in the world. You'd have about 33,378 terabytes of data to store for 5 megabytes on each.

I'm seeing a rough estimate of a terabyte for $100. So It'd be 3.4 million dollars to have the data to store 5 megabytes on every single living person in the world. (That's over 1000 pages of information on each living person.)

3.4 Million. That's about 1/3rd the current profit on the "Immortals" movie that was released on the 11th. Valve has over 30 million accounts. 12 cents from each would give them enough to finance this, if they felt it was necessary.

 

So yea, the technology and funds are out there, all that is lacking is it making any kind of sense to do so. It remaining senseless isn't a sure bet, just currently more probable than not. So, keep it in mind when you make your comments about paranoia.

[Symon]

Not much help to people who have already handed their credit card details to Steam.

[Mashi]

Not much help to people who have already handed their credit card details to Steam.

 

Doesn't matter too much. It's encrypted, and modern credit cards aren't supposed to process without the CCV which isn't stored. And after 3-5 invalid attempts the card is automatically locked(depending on the issuer).

 

I saw someone quoted something about EA being the bastion of goodness and all that. EA has never been 'good' or 'nice' or kind or anything else. They've always been evil, treated their customers as dirt, and punched kittens for fun. They've eaten developers(bullfrog, maxis, origin, westwood, pandemic) and spit out their remains, picking at their teeth with the bones. They treated and continue to treat their employees as dirt, sometime shit(see EA Vancouver-- a literal sweat shop, bad enough that the BC government got involved over working conditions), and treat their customers as thieves.

[gregathit]

Drugas' date=' you are aware that you can get the game via retail or steam and then play offline right??? If steam is offline they can't scan or do anything else. When you find out about an update being released just turn the steam offline mod to online download the update and turn it back to offline......

[/quote']

 

Greg, this is a thread for fanatical worry. Don't try and bring facts into it.

 

My bad....

 

It is so damn hard when reading text to see if someone is being sarcastic or paranoid......either way its not my concern, I'll just go back to playing Skyrim and loving every minute of it...

[Jerbsinator]

Steam is a fantastic application and will continue to be fantastic. There is far too much paranoia in this thread.

[galgat]

No its not it is an Al Capone, Protection racket. And it is a shame that soft ware company's are force to use it.

It is in and of its own, a very evil way that someone found to bilk money out of game making company's, and raise the price of everything for the rest of us. And Those who pirate software are the main reason it and others like it exist.

 

You can come up with all sorts of justification for why you think it is a good thing that you will buy something that you can never sell, and never truly own, but it is just wrong.

[Warrunner]

 

You can come up with all sorts of justification for why you think it is a good thing that you will buy something that you can never sell' date=' and never truly own, but it is just wrong.

[/quote']

 

I don't own the copies of the game I bought on steam. I am alright with this. I consider it paying the money to rent something indefinitely. This means that, no matter what, as long as I remember this password and account, I can install these games. On any computer. I have been playing video games for a long, long time, and I can find/use maybe 40% of all the games I've ever owned. I am willing to subject myself to Steam to always have copies of the games on hand.

 

Shoot, I have a 1 Terabyte external drive that my Steam is installed on. making 300+ gigs of video games plug and play is just nice. I can plug this drive into any computer, run the setup.exe for steam, and in less then 5 minutes effectively have all those games installed.

 

I'm not sure where you are getting the idea that steam has somehow drive prices up. Video game prices have been fairly constant for, well, almost 20 years. I remember getting SNES games for 50 dollars. I just bought Skyrim for 60 dollars. Hell, the sales alone... priced out as used copies of the games I got over the steam summer sale works out to like 250 dollars worth of games for around 70 bucks.

 

[calranthe]

No its not it is an Al Capone' date=' Protection racket. And it is a shame that soft ware company's are force to use it.

It is in and of its own, a very evil way that someone found to bilk money out of game making company's, and raise the price of everything for the rest of us. And Those who pirate software are the main reason it and others like it exist.

 

You can come up with all sorts of justification for why you think it is a good thing that you will buy something that you can never sell, and never truly own, but it is just wrong.

[/quote']

 

I have used steam for along time and love it, I may not "own" but there whole business is based on providing a service which they do VERY well, Every pc I install steam installs my gaming library, I even rebought Oblivion GOTY on steam because it was so much easier to reinstall.

 

Prices I pay are great and the multiplayer aspect of steam puts others to shame.

 

I have over 500 games on steam my wife has 120 on hers and we have never had any issues or problems that are specific to steam.

 

And there use of cloud is the best I have ever seen I can play skyrim on my pc save my game, go to my mothers house log on to my steam account and continue playing there.

 

Then there is the deals and gifts, I can send christmas gifts through steam to anyone I know in the world, I bought skyrim for 4 people this last week, multiplayer games like dungeon defender usually have a 4 player pack for price of three copies.

 

Steam is not evil or a monster how ever you try to demonize them