Why Steam for Skyrim is legally dangerous for you

[Falliar]

Ok, starting a debate!

 

TL;DR version :

why Skyrim + Steam + Loversbitch/naked X117 -> you potentially in prison

 

(that's the catchy title to tell you might want to read it)

 

 

I find legitimate that game producers look for ways to protect their products, but I can't stand Steam. Here is part of why.

 

Read the Steam user terms and privacy license. You give them the right, without reserve, to monitor every running process and file on your computer. Reasoning (which they don't explain btw): for multiplayer games, it allows to verify that you don't run cheating program. But Skyrim is a single-player and they don't mention 'only game-related', you do sign a license where you allow them to scan your whole HD and your processes without a need to justify it (if you doubt this, go read the Steam license again before arguing).

 

I am not saying that they will make a database of all the things you wouldn't want them to know, but you contractually give them the right to. Now this sounds somewhat fine still, right?

 

Except that say your country considers bestiality depiction illegal, or considers that 'young unclothed races' is pornographic representation of things that we wouldn't want it to be. Unfortunately, you run that mod. More unfortunately even, you gave Steam the right to scan your HD - which obviously starts at the minimum with the game-related stuff. Your government is allowed to ask Steam to give them a full list of users who have that mod. Since you waived that right for Steam to check it, they don't have to ask for it. Normally, a judge could give an individual warrant for your own computer to be searched, but they need a reasonable doubt that you might have that type of activities (because it would infringe on your privacy etc). Here, they don't need that anymore, they need a single one on Steam for them to give the full list of all the users of a list of mods they don't like.

 

If you are in Europe, Russia, Asia, you probably risk nothing or a fine if they even care about it. In the US (or god forbid in Saudi Arabia ), having that kind of things is likely to lead to a fine or jail, and your employers, family, friend or neighbors probably won't be overjoyed to learn the reason for it.

 

Now for the other things I hate:

- I also dislike the concept of 'you can't run the game without Steam running too at the same time'

- you must connect regularly to the internet when Steam asks for it. People will tell you that it isn't true for single-player games. That's not entirely correct. Steam will still periodically force you to connect, every x days, to check for updates etc, else it doesn't allow you to play anymore

- steam forces game updates, and sometimes I don't want that. Anyway I don't want to be forced to update without knowing first if it will screw my mods, introduce new bugs or whatever.

- being forced to watch their advertisement sucks

- steam has a good history of technical problems (which is somewhat ok by today's industry standards), but they also have a strong history of very poor consumer services (which is not ok at all)

- those guys are getting a monopoly by now. That allows them to disregard a lot of things and do or abuse as they want (long debate, but I'll start that only if someone's interested).

- even if you buy the game in a shop, you still have to install steam and activate it through them. The only thing that change is that you have a box and that you'll have to download less things over the internet the day you install it

- if I bought my game in a shop, I don't see why I have to have a Steam account with all my user information (see the recent PSN hacks and the leaks of people's bank cards number etc - again, can start another debate on that)

 

 

Basically, I'm sad to say, I'll buy Skyrim in a shop, but will install only a 'version without Steam' (let's call it that way) when one is available.

[gregathit]

Complete conspiracy theory crap...sorry to be blunt but this is ridiculous! Steam DOES NOT SCAN YOUR HARD DRIVE!!! Once a year they ask...ASK...a small percentage of folks if they want to participate in a survey and they show you exactly what they are after and what info they collected and you have the choice even then to say...No, I changed my mind.

 

I don't know who all keeps coming up with this nonsense but it is really old. People, you have more to fear from the Music and Movie industry than you EVER will from Steam or even the government for that matter.

 

I have around 70 plus games on Steam (gathered over the last 4 years) and there is NOT ONE I can't play offline if I choose (no I don't play MMO's and I haven't yet found a game that is worth monthly subscriptions). I never have had a single purchasing or billing issue.

 

Come up with some shred of proof...just one...of steam scanning someone's hard drive and I will listen. Until then....BAH HUMBUG!!!!

[GrimReaper]

Origin does that... but Steam? Never heard that Steam does such things. Not saying it's not true, but it seems very unlikely. Origin for example scans for illegal copies from EA games on your HD afaik, but you can run as many illegal copies and run steam at the same time, never heard that there were any problems.

[gregathit]

Origin yes...and there was a big stink about it. Then the peranoid wackos turned their guns on Steam too for a lousy survey. I took it and hell Microsoft collects more info on me than they do. Just a bunch of crap.

 

As to origin you can always isolate it with a program like sandboxie or the like and give the ole' middle finger to them when\if they scan you and find nothing but their game! Fat lot of good that will do them.

[Falliar]

Complete conspiracy theory crap...sorry to be blunt but this is ridiculous! Steam DOES NOT SCAN YOUR HARD DRIVE!!!

 

You gave them the right to include functionalities allowing them to "identify software or hardware processes or functionality that may give a player an unfair competitive advantage".

 

In order to do this' date=' they are allowed to scan your processes and files (to detect them). And they don't have to ask you about it after you agreed initially. Don't expect them to say "hey, are you ok with us checking for cheating files, do you prefer us to skip some parts perhaps?" That would completely defeat the purpose of it.

 

Once a year they ask...ASK...a small percentage of folks if they want to participate in a survey and they show you exactly what they are after and what info they collected and you have the choice even then to say...No, I changed my mind.

 

Then the peranoid wackos turned their guns on Steam too for a lousy survey. I took it and hell Microsoft collects more info on me than they do. Just a bunch of crap.

 

There is no problems whatsoever with their survey, it's an entirely different issue. That survey is marketing information they are asking for, it's perfectly normal. Same stuff as phones surveys. Microsoft also asks for permission when they do that, no problem about it.

 

 

So, what I am saying, is that both technically and legally, your government can obtain from them a list of all users who are running a specific mod, and they don't have to ask you about it. This is extremely unlikely to happen, but it is possible.

 

 

And I think that it's good that people know about it. Modding on Skyrim with Steam isn't like modding on Oblivion, you can't just 'do it in your computer' and expect no one to find about it. They almost certainly won't look for it, but if they do, you can't hide it from them. In Europe it doesn't really matter, in the US it's not cool, in other parts of the world as per the sharia you can potentially be executed for bestiality, which is less fun.

 

 

- Falliar, paranoid, but for your own good

[Guest]

Maybe this isn't true in some other countries, but in America, why would anyone care? I live in New England in the United States and as an American we have our rights (inb4 lolrights). "Life, Libery, and the pursuit of happiness" (cool! I just quoted more of the DoI than most Americans can!). Okay, it may seem kind of weird to others, that some people like bestiality, or likes loli or whatever, but really all arguments about it just boil down to "STOP HAVING FUN IN A WAY I DON'T LIEK!!!1". I understand that we can't actually rape a human and have the excuse "I was in pursuit of happiness", but in private, if we are of legal age to view sexual material, then why the hell not play some crazy games with sexual content?! Who's gonna stop us? Does me playing a game affect you in any way? You might be disgusted or appalled, but so what? There's no legitimate reason why anyone (In America at least) would get arrested if their hard drive was scanned and they found out that that person was using very hardcore sexual material or whatever unless they were found underage.

 

Back to what I said earlier, why would they even care? Again, my hard drive doesn't affect your life! Unless some crazy-ass bitch becomes the president and institutes unconstitutional laws and policies (which are unconstitutional BTW!) then maybe something would happen. But doesn't the government have other more important things to do, like fight the war on terror? Or debate on abortion or something? I honestly think, the government doesn't give a rat's ass about what "sick" or "insane" things we do, so as long as they don't threaten national security or the security of others, or they don't do other illegal things.

 

Seriously, Falliar, you are quite paranoid. Please calm down, for your sake and for the sake of others.

 

 

(Keep in mind that I speak for the USA, and not for other countries)

[Kekken]

Lurker here, came to defend Steam.

 

Namely, Steam wouldn't do this for the simple reason it's a bad business decision. Name one thing that will get people riled up more than any other?

Start cramping down on their porn.

Ohjesus the riots.

[Falliar]

I understand that we can't actually rape a human and have the excuse "I was in pursuit of happiness"' date=' but in private, if we are of legal age to view sexual material, then why the hell not play some crazy games with sexual content?! Who's gonna stop us? Does [u']me[/u] playing a game affect you in any way? You might be disgusted or appalled, but so what? There's no legitimate reason why anyone (In America at least) would get arrested if their hard drive was scanned and they found out that that person was using very hardcore sexual material or whatever unless they were found underage.

 

Hey, I'm totally not judging what anyone does in private on their computer. (You might want to double check your fact though about all of it being legal or not, see for example a wikipedia article about it, but that's an entirely different debate - spoiler: illegal in the US, up to five years of prison in Germany, etc).

 

So yeah, I'm not talking about it being moral or legal, I'm just saying that it is important to be aware that the risk is not non-existent, because of the use of something like Steam.

 

 

Namely' date=' Steam wouldn't do this for the simple reason it's a bad business decision. Name one thing that will get people riled up more than any other?

Start cramping down on their porn.

Ohjesus the riots.

[/quote']

 

Agreed, but they don't have a choice if it's a justice's decision. Plus, "oh, hey, Steam had to comply to fight (whatever non-mainstream sexual) mods", people won't defend that.

 

I have no issues with the content of the mods here. I just think that it's important people have all the information needed, that is, the situation with Skyrim is not the same as with Oblivion. You should know what type of risks you are taking or not.

[LordJerle]

Hey' date=' I'm totally not judging what anyone does in private on their computer. (You might want to double check your fact though about all of it being legal or not, see for example a wikipedia article about it, but that's an entirely different debate - spoiler: illegal in the US, up to five years of prison in Germany, etc).

 

That particular article only addresses child pornography, not bestiality. As per community rules on this board, no mods are to be released on here involving sex with minors. Some people may have games that include minors, including a certain Japanese game by a popular H-Game company, but it's not on here. I might also point out that the Federal legal age of consent in Japan is 13, however it's 16-18 depending on local government laws in whatever region you happen to live in.

[Presto]

Not really a point to make about steam, but just a point in general. Recently I was named in a mass p2p file sharing lawsuit over, you guessed it, a porn movie. Now if this was a regular p2p issue and it was the latest Eminem song then dealing with it in a public forum wouldn't be much of an issue. Instead because its a porn movie, now there are issues regarding having your name listed on a case with that content. If you are found guilty or not, your name will forever be involved with that case. I'm dealing with that now and the lawyer who filed the case is using this guilt/fear to bully people into outrageous settlements.

 

The point I'm getting at for gaming is that there may come a time where someone uploads a porn mod for a game through a proxy with a tracker. The content of the porn mod may be inappropriate or even have illegal acts depicted in it. Now a few months later a lawyer comes around and shows you on a list of ip's that downloaded said material and sues you for having this content. Now do you fight it and hope to win or do you settle just to shut them up and keep your name out of the public forum? It's scary to even think of but as these types of lawsuits are becoming more and more lucrative for people fighting against copyright issues, I wouldn't doubt if lawyers start to finding a way to extort money out of people for having questionable content on their computer.

 

(More on topic) I tend to stay away from all the mods that depict sex with animals or include child like races to the game. Its not really my cup of tea and I just don't want to get mixed up with it.

[Symon]

Presto has this issue nailed!

 

It's not what they are currently doing. (nothing much I'd imagine), it's what they might do if they decided to, or worse, were faced with a court order instructing them to.

 

Even the likes of Google have folded and released information 'gathered in confidence' under the pressure of a subpoena/warrant/court order. Do you trust the owners of Steam to go to jail to protect your privacy?

 

For me, it's another reason to avoid Steam (not that they support my o/s). Everyone needs to make their own informed choice on the matter.

 

Edit: Let's hope Steam never get hacked! It'd make an impressive vector for Trojans!

[gregathit]

Awareness Yes. For that matter I can agree, however NONE of this is news.

 

By now if you use a computer you are aware that "ANYTHING" you do could potentially be tracked back to you. If the Music Industry, Movie Industry or Government (and now I guess the Porn Industry..shame on them!) has you in their sites then you are in some serious trouble. They damn sure don't need steam as there are plenty of other ways to track and trace your IP.

 

Targeting Steam as something to "beware of" is plain silly when as Symon has pointed out they can use Google (which of us hasn't goggled something we shouldn't have????).

 

Besides right now the things to "REALLY" be cautious about are "NOT" Steam or Origin but rather P2P sharing networks, torrents and any other way you may illegally try to obtain music, movies and now porn.

 

If you had said THIS and then threw in to also beware of the potential for steam and origin THEN AND ONLY THEN would this have not sounded like the boy who cried wolf (or chicken little - "the sky is falling" - take your pick).

 

As always this is just my opinion (which means nothing to anyone but me) and you are welcome to yours.

[Symon]

While Gregathit is correct as far as he posts, I do feel a few additional things should be considered.

 

Firstly, ip addresses are NOT as useful as films and television imply. Many people have dynamic ips. Many people legitimately employ proxies because policy says they have to. Many choose to. As my day job entails looking after 400+ proxies, I can assure you that web-site designers who think they can use the connecting ip for anything much that is meaningful are one of the banes of my life. (Though the time one on the phone assured me that if we gave him a list of the possible ips that the user with a problem logging in might use, he'd happily associate those with his id. The sharp intake of breath when I said I'd be happy to, but he did realize that would mean about 200,000 people of all ages could use his service for the price of one subscription was priceless!).

 

(I'd love the techie on a TV show to say:

Right, I traced his ip. He came from a proxy cluster of 16 ips in a round robin. Took a while to trace all those sessions. Thank goodness for X-forwarded-for! Behind that he came from another proxy, which he VPN'd to from a compromised server somewhere in Brazil. Turns out to be a server in telehouse, as that ip range has been sold on. That led to a trojaned laptop owned by a teenager in Portugal. There I lost him!)

 

You have to bear in mind the degree of exposure/risk. Using Google as a search engine doesn't reveal too much about you really. Giving a corporation the right to inspect or upload software to your computer at will and/or without you knowledge is another matter. You might completely trust them today, but what of tomorrow. A change of policy or ownership and... would you really want, say, Rupert Murdoch to take an interest in Steam?

 

The point about Trojans is difficult to counter I'd say. There have been several high profile compromised systems of late (and many more that we haven't been told of no doubt.) IF Steam were compromised, the effect on it's users might be horrific!

[gregathit]

The point about Trojans is a good one and the supposedly "untouchable" servers of high profile companies like Sony and even several governments have been cracked wide open by hackers, so peon users like us are quite literally "exposed" despite whatever barriers of firewalls\software we put up.

 

All in all I am not advocating "ignoring" the threat in any way...just not planning on uninstalling my 70 plus steam games anytime soon. Heaven have mercy if someone did break into steam and run amok! Horrific is the understatement of the year. Imagine if they made fake images of game files and then "forced" an update to erase everything! Horrific doesn't even begin to describe this!!!! I am just glad that the likelihood of this happening are less than me winning the lotto (not that I will stop playing mind you.......it could happen )

 

I do also have origin but I don't let it run except when I buy something on it (VERY RARE) and I am neither a COD or BF fan (saving my money for Skyrim\Saints\Batman).

 

So to end....be aware and stay informed....these things are essential if you have the slightest hope of remaining free. Paranoia is none of these things...of course not being paranoid doesn't mean that they aren't really out to get you.....

 

I don't remember what movie I heard this from (or whether I am quoting it correctly for that matter) "Sure you are paranoid.....but are you Paranoid Enough????"

[Mashi]

Well paranoia is all fine and good. But there's a fine point between addition and caution as the saying goes. You can get addicted to paranoia just like anything else, and see the invisible monsters under the bed about to spy on you doing naught things with pixels.

 

The reality is, it's pretty much illegal everywhere in the world for a company to 'spy' on you in this form. What isn't illegal is to use that said software to protect things like multiplayer components from 3rd party hooks for things like achievements, and other cheats. As for IP addresses and all that, they're so easily spoofed along with MAC addresses that I could make an internet connected refrigerator be the device that downloaded 36TB of TV shows, movies and music if I wanted to.

 

Yeah good luck with that one.

[sora3]

As everyone said, there is a fine line between things going fine and things going down the shitter. In this case, I'd be more willing with Steam than Origin due to the EULA. However, majority of companies that DO spy on you are still legally bound to tell you regardless that some information will still be collected. Games for Windows Live or better known as Xbox Live is one prime example. They collect the information on what you're gaming on, what games you have and other bits including financial transaction with you. That's why I'm highly reluctant in giving them my financial details.

 

The same thing applies to Steam but I'm much more aware on the PC as compared to the consoles.

 

In regards to Steam being hacked, that is a possibility but as long as you have some common sense, the majority of hacking and indeed any malicious attack CAN be prevented. The people that usually raise these sort of alarms don't know what common sense is.

[Symon]

Fascinating thread this one!

A few more things arising. Firstly, spoofing ip addresses is trivial, but mostly useless. Your ip address is your 'return address' put a false one on the packet and you DON'T get a reply. Not usually what you wanted. (grin).

 

Spoofing MAC addresses is trivial and isn't actually spoofing. All decent network cards have a provision for the MAC address to be manually re-assigned to prevent collisions. You can't route by MAC address across the internet, so not really useful. (I'm never interested in a MAC address)

 

It IS illegal to spy on people in all reasonable countries, but it is ok to enact measures to 'prevent crime' and 'protect people and minors'. cf The manic installation of cctv cameras on every street corner in the UK.

 

As for real spying on people, yes it's illegal, but it didn't prevent News International from doing it for decades. People knew it was happening and the 'financial measures' taken to protect the company and owners from legal action by victims was ignored by the powers that be for decades. When the authorities decided to prosecute the reporters that revealed the scandal for 'spying' it was a ludicrous own goal, retracted with massive red faces all round and massive blaming of subordinates.

 

In fact the whole News of the World scandal has been categorized by blaming of subordinates for actions allegedly sanctioned by the rich and powerful and deliberate looking the wrong way while any laws to protect the individual were blatantly ignored.

 

If you aren't British and haven't been following the scandal, you should. Rupert Murdoch (Fox News to Americans. Doesn't that make you think?) should be concerning you.

 

Which is why I say that if he bought Steam, I wouldn't trust him.

[Falliar]

About threat gravity, I do maintain that the position of Steam (or whatever service of that type) is worse than many other examples used as comparisons.

 

In the case of News of the World, they have to handpick interesting individuals, determine that they might have valuable information, and go out of their way to get access to their voice mail.

 

With programs like Steam, the license allows Steam to scan your processes and files without your permission (which on non single-player they are forced to do to detect the processes of cheating programs or the illegal patch files etc). This is the same as a house cleaning lady who goes through every person's house and goes through all their stuff (in her case to clean things).

 

 

 

Normally a government would send some detective to your house to see whether or not you personally have one stuff they don't like, and they need a specific warrant at your name for that (conceptually similar to the phone hack case). It'd take time, they need to have legitimate suspicions, they must convince a judge for each warrant and so on.

 

In the cleaning lady's case, they subpoena her, only one person (company here), make her sit at a desk and ask her to write down the list of every person who had this or that when she cleaned their houses. Costs them almost nothing. They can even force the cleaning lady to specifically check, the next time she goes through all those houses, if the owners own that forbidden red watering can that they want to detect. They don't need to already have your name, or to have suspicions about you, etc - they'll just get it all.

 

And they aren't forcing the company to do anything out of their way: you already allowed them to check everything and they already do it for other reasons. For Steam it'd be exactly the same as checking for the signature of a patch file, only this time it's the signature of a mod file.

 

Also, the information they obtain will not be only an ip, which as Symon said isn't always that easy to pinpoint, it'll be your Steam account, ie, your real name, bank account information etc, nothing you can pretend wasn't yours.

 

 

And that's why I am firmly convinced that the 'threat level' caused by a program like Steam is many times higher than using Google and similar.

 

Not saying that it will happen, but saying that technically and legally it makes you many, many times more vulnerable. I also agree that what we do on this site is legal (except for whoever would misuse and abuse some of it, which is certainly not encouraged or supported here).

 

 

Thanks a lot to Symon too for the very interesting information.

[LordJerle]

I didn't read the whole thread' date=' just the OP. This is alarmist, not well-thought out bullshit. Especially concerning US law - fictional representations of otherwise illegal acts are considered free speech undet law based on a supreme court decision a few years ago.

 

The only thing Steam cares about is multiplayet games and your hardware profile.

[/quote']

 

And your money.

[Presto]

If it's illegal or not, I'm convinced there will be a day where the information on your computer will not be as protected as you like. Today you can go to many websites and find the exact address where someone lives, along with their relatives, job, credit score, and a number of other important personal info. 10 years ago it was crazy to think that information would be so freely available so it only makes me wonder what will be freely available 10 years from now.

 

As more and more ways to protect your information are created, the more and more ways are made to invade on your privacy. I'm not trying to be an alarmist or stand on my soap box about freedom of speech/privacy/etc, I just believe that our society is moving in a direction where information is king and the more information they can gather on you the better, and the more of that information they can use against you... the better (in "their" opinion).

 

Spyware, malware, viruses, trojans, and even legit coding from Apple and Microsoft are sucking as much as they can out of your keystrokes and program choices. What if there comes a day where cyber police becomes a reality and simply typing in a term that is deemed illegal lands you in trouble? I know there are people out there that are very good at protecting themselves and pride that they can remain hidden on the internet but for every one of those people there are 100's that aren't as tech savvy or ahead of the trends. The more we accept invasions of privacy, the more that will be taken from us. Someday I wouldn't be surprised if there are commercial websites that allow you to check the content of someones computer simply by paying a nominal fee. Sounds crazy now but I wouldn't put it out of the realm of possibility.

 

[Mashi]

That information is only as available as much as you give it. If you throw your information to things like any social networking site, then you are in the end responsible for that being freely available. And plenty of people do, because they don't think, and don't think they need to worry about it. Though it seems that the younger generation those under 20 don't see the real thrill of social networking sites. Plenty of people in that 21-45 age bracket don't see a problem. I don't 'exist' online outside of my aliases.

 

Then again, most countries don't have the same level of protection of personal information that others do. Take germany for instance, or canada. Very tough data retention laws, very tough laws on the ability to tap, view, see, look into, or know what an individual is doing unless the court deems it so. Not only are you protected in both places, by individual laws(or acts), but in some cases you're protected by the foundational laws of the country itself, and further by case law. In Canada's case, by law I can request any company that has information on me to turn it over as well. That includes facebook. I can also force them to stop them from using any of it, even if it was provided by another person.

 

 

 

It IS illegal to spy on people in all reasonable countries' date=' but it is ok to enact measures to 'prevent crime' and 'protect people and minors'. cf The manic installation of cctv cameras on every street corner in the UK.

 

As for real spying on people, yes it's illegal, but it didn't prevent News International from doing it for decades. People knew it was happening and the 'financial measures' taken to protect the company and owners from legal action by victims was ignored by the powers that be for decades. When the authorities decided to prosecute the reporters that revealed the scandal for 'spying' it was a ludicrous own goal, retracted with massive red faces all round and massive blaming of subordinates.

...

Which is why I say that if he bought Steam, I wouldn't trust him.

[/quote']Missed your post so let me toss in an edit here:

Well not living in the UK I can't say with cctv cameras, my brother works in law enforcement here in Canada and with that they detest the idea of them. Law enforcement believes that people on the ground watching, and available is a better option. Plus most crowns believe that it would fly in the face of the charter too. It's warrentless surveillance of the population at large.

 

As for the news international thing, I find it more odd that people focus only on them. Especially since it hasn't only been them. They were just the ones that got caught, not more than a week after it happened the NYT's cleaned house and fired a bunch of people, and flatly refused to openly cooperate at all with any AG's office that asked any questions. So did the WAPO, and SFG if I remember correctly. The news media is dirty, damn dirty right down to it's core. Some people might remember the story about the little girl that got murdered in woodstock, ontario, the media was all over that, with the courts imposing a publication ban and all. And the media still got information that wasn't available.

 

[polluxval]

as they say in my country:

 

"el hombre que teme sufrir, ya sufre por lo que teme"

 

"the man who fears to suffer, already suffers for what he fears"

[Halstrom]

Basically' date=' I'm sad to say, I'll buy Skyrim in a shop, but will install only a 'version without Steam' (let's call it that way) when one is available.[/quote']

Well, guess you'll never be playing Skyrim then.

 

I heard Steam hides Child Porn on your mums hardrive then blackmails you into buying more games from them..................

 

[Symon]

The government has many more pressing concerns than how I modify a game to better get off to it.

I wish you were right 'user29'

We actually hadn't mentioned Government spying as such, just commercial spying. But....

The UK Government has far too much time on it's hands then, as it has started to order BT to block access to file sharing sites at the behest of the Record Industry. The more avowedly piratical sites to start with but P2P in general is likely to follow.

 

And let us not forget the Great Firewall of China!

[Halstrom]

The government has many more pressing concerns than how I modify a game to better get off to it.

I wish you were right 'user29'

We actually hadn't mentioned Government spying as such' date=' just commercial spying. But....

The UK Government has far too much time on it's hands then, as it has started to order BT to block access to file sharing sites at the behest of the Record Industry. The more avowedly piratical sites to start with but P2P in general is likely to follow.[/quote']

Only because they're losing tax money from music/video piracy.

 

There's no money in dragging a large percentage of the population into court, it just costs them more money.