The Witcher 3

[lordofthedread]

Yes a link to the interview please so everyone knows what we are talking about.

 

Also I think any game develloper has way more rights to trash another one, just because they actually work to do something while the average player just sits and play.

 

CDPR is actually making 2 new games and you have to take in consideration that they came out with TW pretty much out of the blue and they were not making any games before, as a first game TW forces the respect wether or not you like it.

 

CD Projekt also made great things for the gaming industry itself like a very well known website called GOG allowing you to purchase a lot of titles (not only good old ones btw) totally DRM free and usually tuned to be playable on newer computers (for the good old ones), on the other hand you have Bethesda who sold a game that ties you to a fuckin Steam account (even if you bought the game as a box) cutting down the player liberty to use Steam or not and to use Internet or not to play a solo game.

 

From my point of view they have quite the right to bash others indeed, no matter how good or bad TW3 will be, their atitude itself should give any gamer enough reasons to support them.

 

Here the wiki info about CD Projekt just in case.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cdp.pl

[dmen77]

This is apparently the interview that started all of this. And this interview at about the 3:50 mark seems to have the same thing.

[leddis3]

Also this. http://www.destructoid.com/witcher-3-director-feels-that-skyrim-was-generic--244902.phtml if you just want to read.

Likely from the same source.

 

You know I get that a lot about how CDPR should be supported because of what they do and again their business model is admirable (though calling them indie is a bit like calling Bethesda indie too considering they're owned by a company that has handled game distribution in Poland for years and owns GOG) but I'm not going to support a developer who makes games that alienate me, sorry. I don't care if they hand out free chocolate orgasms with every purchase.

 

And no, developers don't have the right to trash each other, that's childish dick waving. If the game is better then the game is better (though that is in the end subjective).

Lastly while it is true that Skyrim characters are generic, *I* personally consider Geralt to be generic, boring and annoying, and he's the set main character. I'm sure some disagree, but then some may have found Skyrim's characters to be interesting as well.

[windpl]

CDPR is CDP, Bethesda is an global distributor when CDP has to use 3th party distributor. And they fail 2 at it, once with Atari and second with Namco.

[leddis3]

Yes they obviously don't have Bethesda's international clout but the fact remains they have strong backing in their own country and can't really be called "indie".

[Veta]

As long as someone self publishes their games they are indie .

[windpl]

As long as someone self publishes funding their games they are indie .

 

I fix it for you

[lordofthedread]

Also this. http://www.destructoid.com/witcher-3-director-feels-that-skyrim-was-generic--244902.phtml if you just want to read.

Likely from the same source.

 

You know I get that a lot about how CDPR shat is+2ould be supported because of what they do and again their business model is admirable (though calling them indie is a bit like calling Bethesda indie too considering they're owned by a company that has handled game distribution in Poland for years and owns GOG) but I'm not going to support a developer who makes games that alienate me, sorry. I don't care if they hand out free chocolate orgasms with every purchase.

 

And no, developers don't have the right to trash each other, that's childish dick waving. If the game is better then the game is better (though that is in the end subjective).

Lastly while it is true that Skyrim characters are generic, *I* personally consider Geralt to be generic, boring and annoying, and he's the set main character. I'm sure some disagree, but then some may have found Skyrim's characters to be interesting as well.

 

First I didnt seen any bashing, just saying that they want to do better than Skyrim in terms of immersion, it is your right to bash them (because you do indeed) for that but saying that they cant remember the name of any Skyrim NPC after one playthrough is not bashing, it is true that Skyrim NPC are lacking depth and personality, of course after spending countless hours on Skyrim like many of us you start to know whos who, but they are actually developping a game, not playing Skyrim.

 

I personally heared a lot of praises on Skyrim on the interviews actually, a lot more than bashing and they even said that was challenging to make an open world game and many good things about how the world was in Skyrim to begin with, if you think Skyrim has no flaws then you are probably the only one to think so.

 

I dont see how CDPR games are alienating you in any way just because you cant make your own character, then every single game with no customization is alienating? How I'd like you to explain that to me because it escapes me somehow.

 

Of course if for you stating something that is true to begin with is bashing (actually I am still waiting for a complaint by Bethesda saying that they threw trash at their games) then nobody would be able to speak his mind.

 

For your information, wether you like geralt or not is not the discussion here and he is not generic, he has a story that were inspired by books unlike your beloved character you made in Skyrim (I personally didnt read the books so I dont even know if they are good to begin with), I can totally understand and respect that you are more excited by "I am writing my own story" thing but that does not make your character any less generic, at the end of the day your story is pretty much the same : you were saved from a gruesome death in Helgen by the apparition of a dragon, this dragon intend to destroy the world and since you are the only one that can permanetly kill dragon you are the only hope, the only (little) difference  you can make is by siding either with the Imperials or the Stormcloaks and this has almost no impact in the world (same goes for Dawnguard) apart different greetings from the guards (yay!).

After having killed thousands of Imperials you still can go to the Blue Palace in Solitude dressed as a Stormcloack and get Elisiff greeting you by a healthy "thats so good to see you again!".

 

If you want to start speaking about NPC in Skyrim they are very manichean indeed, it is either good or bad guys, there is nothing in the middle. The only quest where I had to think about it before completion was killing Pathrunaax or not, almost every quest in TW and TW2 will make you thinking about what YOU will do in this situation and it will change your relations with the whole world accordingly, how come a mod needed to be made in Skyrim for being attacked by Stormcloaks while you were wearing Imperial armors and vice versa? How immersive or ungeneric is that? (dont worry which side you choose you can still roam the world freely and we will attack you only on civil war battles..), again will you do Namira's quest or not? No matter there is no consequences, just a reward, so go and eat human flesh at will.... I could go on with examples like that because there are many and thats what is meant by generic.

 

I find it quite healthy actually that these developper took time to play the game actually before saying anything.

 

To finish Skyrim is a great game with its flaws, TW3 will hopefully be better on some parts and maybe worse on other parts but this whole debate about trashing because they said "generic" is way overrated IMHO especially when it is quite true.

[leddis3]

 

First I didnt seen any bashing, just saying that they want to do better than Skyrim in terms of immersion, it is your right to bash them (because you do indeed) for that but saying that they cant remember the name of any Skyrim NPC after one playthrough is not bashing, it is true that Skyrim NPC are lacking depth and personality, of course after spending countless hours on Skyrim like many of us you start to know whos who, but they are actually developping a game, not playing Skyrim.

 

I personally heared a lot of praises on Skyrim on the interviews actually, a lot more than bashing and they even said that was challenging to make an open world game and many good things about how the world was in Skyrim to begin with, if you think Skyrim has no flaws then you are probably the only one to think so.

 

I dont see how CDPR games are alienating you in any way just because you cant make your own character, then every single game with no customization is alienating? How I'd like you to explain that to me because it escapes me somehow.

 

Of course if for you stating something that is true to begin with (actually I am still waiting for a complaint by Bethesda saying that they threw trash at their games) then nobody would be able to speak its mind.

 

For your information, wether you like geralt or not is not the discussion here and he is not generic, he has a true story that were inspired by books unlike your beloved character you made in Skyrim (I personally didnt read the books so I dont even know if they are good to begin with), I can totally understand and respect that you are more excited by "I am writing my own story" thing but that does not make your character any less generic, at the end of the day your story is pretty much the same : you were saved from a gruesome death in Helgen by the apparition of a dragon, this dragon intend to destroy the world and since you are the only one that can permanetly kill dragon you are the only hope, the only (little) difference  you can make is by siding either with the Imperials or the Stormcloaks and this has almost no impact in the world (same goes for Dawnguard) apart different greetings from the guards (yay!).

After having killed thousands of Imperials you still can go to the Blue Palace in Solitude dressed as a Stormcloack and get Elisiff greeting you by a healthy "thats so good to see you again!".

 

If you want to start speaking about NPC in Skyrim they are very manichean indeed, it is either good or bad guys, there is nothing in the middle. The only quest where I had to think about it before completion was killing Pathrunaax or not, almost every quest in TW and TW2 will make you thinking about what YOU will do in this situation and it will change your relations with the whole world accordingly, how come a mod needed to be made in Skyrim for being attacked by Stormcloaks while you were wearing Imperial armors and vice versa? How immersive or ungeneric is that? (dont worry which side you choose you can still roam the world freely and we will attack you only on civil war battles..), again will you do Namira's quest or not? No matter there is no consequences, just a reward, so go and eat human flesh at will.... I could go on with examples like that because there are many and thats what is meant by generic.

 

I find it quite healthy actually that these developper took time to play the game actually before saying anything.

 

To finish Skyrim is a great game with its flaws, TW3 will hopefully be better on some parts and maybe worse on other parts but this whole debate about trashing because they said "generic" is way overrated IMHO especially when it is quite true.

 

 

- They alienate me because it's an RPG with a character I don't like in any way. I mean even if I think, say, new Dante is an insufferable twat (and he is) at least I don't have to role play as him in the same sense.

 

- CDPR are speaking a subjective truth. Not everyone considers ALL of Skyrim's characters to be generic. I for one think Paarthunax is not.

 

- In my opinion, Geralt is generic, and derivative. I do not think much of him or the books he comes from. I'd rather have my own character than some guy who irritates me in an RPG I'd likely spend many days on.

 

- Skyrim's flaws are well known, but we have yet to see how CDPR will handle an open world any better. People laud TW2, but it's not open world, and from my perspective, Dragon Age: Origins wipes the floor with TW2.

 

- I don't care if CDPR are 100% right, it's still wrong and unprofessional to say it, *especially when they have yet to prove themselves with an open world RPG*. I hate conceit.

[windpl]

Your character? My was also a chosen one, dragon shouting killer.
You are running in circles.

[leddis3]

Your character? My was also a chosen one, dragon shouting killer.

You are running in circles.

 

That's role, not character. I never said the Dragonborn was the pinnacle of character generation anyway.

But I'll still take it over Geralt.

[windpl]

 

Your character? My was also a chosen one, dragon shouting killer.

You are running in circles.

 

That's role, not character.

 

 

Oh and it was imprisoned and dragged to Skyrim, and yours?

[leddis3]

 

 

Your character? My was also a chosen one, dragon shouting killer.

You are running in circles.

 

That's role, not character.

 

 

Oh and it was imprisoned and dragged to Skyrim, and yours?

 

 

Being a prisoner as a background is a thematic repetition of the Elder Scrolls series in all but one game.

This hardly makes a set character does it.

[windpl]

Oh, then what molds a character? A life experience. Lets skip background because Skyrim hero does not have one and you didn't play w2.

Then lets stick to current, In wither you mold Geralt by making decision that affect him and world. In skyrim you make decision that affect collor of armour you are wearing. So simply saying geralt has an character, your Skyrim alter ego does not have any.

[leddis3]

Oh, then what molds a character? A life experience. Lets skip background because Skyrim hero does not have one and you didn't play w2.

Then lets stick to current, In wither you mold Geralt by making decision that affect him and world. In skyrim you make decision that affect collor of armour you are wearing. So simply saying geralt has an character, your Skyrim alter ego does not have any.

 

I could dispute that in any number of ways, but I'm not going to change anyone's minds and I've ranted enough.

In the end I'll boil it to one simple thing. I'd rather role play as an avatar that has no character, than one that has a character I hate.

Until CDPR realise that there are some of us who feel this way in regards to RPGs, I will never consider them as "great" as others seem to.

[windpl]

I can understand that. And I do feel somewhat in that way. I like Geralt but I wish that there was character customisation and sandbox. With that and CDPR touch game created would be glorious. But I would never say that Geralt or W2 is generic it is far away from that.

[leddis3]

I can understand that. And I do feel somewhat in that way. I like Geralt but I wish that there was character customisation and sandbox. With that and CDPR touch game created would be glorious. But I would never say that Geralt or W2 is generic it is far away from that.

 

 

Geralt being generic is my opinion, I don't expect others to agree, it's just my view.

And hey if CDPR do make a game that has both chargen and sweeping character and world building then great. Me being somewhat critical of them until then won't hurt them any though.

 

Anyway it appears I've hijacked this discussion. I should drop it and if you like TW as a series then I hope you all enjoy TW3.

[lordofthedread]

I am sorry leddis3 but you start to sound like a Bethesda fanboy, you have no arguments to prove that Geralt is generic beside that you dont like him and you dont like to be forced to play him and not one of your creations.

 

Pathurnax is generic in its behavior, maybe not in its story but how long do you spend chatting with him seriously in the whole damn game? How much are you involved in his story? How many quests are related to him? What is his relationship with you? How does his relationship with you does change wether or not you follow the way of the voice? All these questions dont have any answer because this is again another Generic NPC or because Bethesda didnt took time to devellop interesting NPCs..

 

For me to call a game a RPG you have to do better than character creation and leveling, you have to make a world that is somewhat believable and Skyrim fails badly on this point because no matter the (little again) choices your make it wont make any difference in the end, no matter what you did in previous TES games it has no impact on Skyrim. If I wanted to trash Skyrim I would say it is a very well done open world Hack and Slash but definitly not a RPG (and I am playing my 5th playthrough that I am interrupting to come and chat here lol).

 

I agree that character creation is a plus but I disagree that you cant do better just because its an open world sandbox type of game.

 

Saying that Dragon Age : Origin sweep the floor with TW is totally biased by your own preferences, you very own character in DAO is lifeless and damn generic, NPC were great but I coldnt care less about my character actually and I tried all the races to have different beginings.

 

I truly dont know if CDR will do better or not, I do know that pointing the flaws of Skyrim is not trashing no matter if they did better or not, especially when it is taken as an example of what they want to avoid in their own game, saying DAO sweeps the floor with TW is definitly trashing.

 

I also hijacked the discussion following you and I will leave it at that hoping that TW3 and the next TES would prove to be better games than what we currently play

[windpl]

 

... I'm so hyped now.

[ChancellorKremlin]

The gameplay footage looks fantastic. 

 

Having said that, I'm being "cautiously optimistic" at best so as to not foster too high an expectation. A jump towards a sandbox open-world is quite a big one, and I hope CDProjekt Red can deliver. I really do, because the TW franchise is probably one of my favourites. 

 

 

[gregathit]

Agreed.  If CDProjekt Red can indeed deliver an open world game while maintaining an involving and intense story line like Witcher 2 then they will have raised the bar to a whole new level.  After all the crap they have talked, if they fail, they will be the butt of jokes forever.......

[Veta]

Agreed.  If CDProjekt Red can indeed deliver an open world game while maintaining an involving and intense story line like Witcher 2 then they will have raised the bar to a whole new level.  After all the crap they have talked, if they fail, they will be the butt of jokes forever.......

 

What crap are you referring to ?

[Guest carywinton]

 

 

How much of a disadvantage storywise would I be starting with TW2? Are they direct sequels, or in name only?

 

 

There isn't a disadvantage per say, it is just that you will be stuck with the "canon" story and not one of your own making.  You may also miss some of the context for why things are happening due to not knowing the history.  It isn't a deal breaker by any means and depending on your interest in the series it may not even matter.

 

There are quite a few "decisions" that you make in W1 which have impact on W2 (when you import your W1 saved game).  Which factions are around and in what state and so on.  As I said, if it doesn't bother you not knowing the history then roll with it.  If you approach it as a moderately linear RPG then you will more than likely enjoy it, especially if you picked it up cheap. 

 

 

Obviously your incite to the story and game is spot on, I have played both 1 & 2 and found it richly rewarding, I suspect the final installment will be quite epic as well.

 

[Guest carywinton]

Agreed.  If CDProjekt Red can indeed deliver an open world game while maintaining an involving and intense story line like Witcher 2 then they will have raised the bar to a whole new level.  After all the crap they have talked, if they fail, they will be the butt of jokes forever.......

 

I think this is the whole point here, I think they already know they have the elements in place to "raise the bar" , CDProjeckt are not fledglings in the business anymore, they know what people want now and I believe they are going to deliver.

[ChancellorKremlin]

 

Agreed.  If CDProjekt Red can indeed deliver an open world game while maintaining an involving and intense story line like Witcher 2 then they will have raised the bar to a whole new level.  After all the crap they have talked, if they fail, they will be the butt of jokes forever.......

 

I think this is the whole point here, I think they already know they have the elements in place to "raise the bar" , CDProjeckt are not fledglings in the business anymore, they know what people want now and I believe they are going to deliver.

 

We'll see. I suspect a lot of people said the same about Mass Effect 3. Nobody is infallible, not even CD Projeckt Red.