devious skyrim Unforgiving Devices

[BreadDain]

- Action key used after (presumably every device?) gagball was open still opens interaction window with it, like it is still being locked.
- Pretty sure that getting lockpicking help from followers doesn't work.
- There is a control softlock issue after getting rid of any device, I cannot pinpoint what is to blame. Happened to me with Blindfold and Corset, I think some failsave is required.
- Something is wrong with hotkeys. MCM doesn't accept second hotkey change.

And resetting/starting quest doesn't fill aliases, as I've previously said. SetQuestAliases UD_AbadonQuest, works like a charm

 

Edited October 22, 2021 by BreadDain

[Dust+]

Hello @ihatemykite

 

Usually I don't ask such questions because I have a feeling it might be annoying for the developer but I'm too curious. Did you fix that little issue with steel cuffs that were too easy to escape? I just think should I install this version of the mod to my current playthrough or wait for the next version.

 

Thank you for your answer.

[krazykatboy]

Idea for a new option:

You can't remove the bottom layer until you remove the the top. Like for example, in order to remove a full-body catsuit you'd need to first remove the following:

• Collar
• Gloves
• Arm Restraints
• Leg restraints
• Chastity devices
• Corset/harness
• Boots

This example would just the simplest implementation that basically checks if these other restraints exist first before removal of others can start. More complicated implementations could look to see if the item's hidden through the "devices underneath" settings in devious devices, or have special code for specific restraints that would cover another.

[freddurst7]

At the end of the Chloe quest in DCL, not all of the devices unequip properly when the Dollmaker unlocks you and almost all the devices still show up in the UD Debug menu.  I managed to remove the devices that were stuck on through the debug menu but they still are listed there and reequipping anything to try to clear it ends up with it being inescapable even though you have the proper key it won't let you unlock it.

 

I managed to get past it by disabling UD + Plugins, reloading from a save prior to the end of the quest, and then talking to the Dollmaker to have her release me.  I then saved, re-enabled them all and loaded.  It got confused with Chloe's status since I hadn't freed her before re-enabling UD, but a recycleactor fixed that.

 

Edit: Yeah, that broke everything.  Now no devices are recognized by UD.

Edited October 23, 2021 by freddurst7

[BreadDain]

Is there any possibility for 1.5 reupload? I am running 1.6 for a fair amount of time and I don't think I can enjoy it anymore, the perfomance, even with tweaks and disabling other mods, is awful

Edited October 23, 2021 by BreadDain

[ihatemykite]

13 hours ago, freddurst7 said:

At the end of the Chloe quest in DCL, not all of the devices unequip properly when the Dollmaker unlocks you and almost all the devices still show up in the UD Debug menu.  I managed to remove the devices that were stuck on through the debug menu but they still are listed there and reequipping anything to try to clear it ends up with it being inescapable even though you have the proper key it won't let you unlock it.

 

I managed to get past it by disabling UD + Plugins, reloading from a save prior to the end of the quest, and then talking to the Dollmaker to have her release me.  I then saved, re-enabled them all and loaded.  It got confused with Chloe's status since I hadn't freed her before re-enabling UD, but a recycleactor fixed that.

 

Edit: Yeah, that broke everything.  Now no devices are recognized by UD.

Found the issue. Forget to add quest keyword to formlist. Working on the fix.

21 hours ago, krazykatboy said:

Idea for a new option:

You can't remove the bottom layer until you remove the the top. Like for example, in order to remove a full-body catsuit you'd need to first remove the following:

• Collar
• Gloves
• Arm Restraints
• Leg restraints
• Chastity devices
• Corset/harness
• Boots

This example would just the simplest implementation that basically checks if these other restraints exist first before removal of others can start. More complicated implementations could look to see if the item's hidden through the "devices underneath" settings in devious devices, or have special code for specific restraints that would cover another.

Sounds like interesting idea. Maybe in future.

On 10/22/2021 at 8:15 AM, Dust+ said:

Hello @ihatemykite

 

Usually I don't ask such questions because I have a feeling it might be annoying for the developer but I'm too curious. Did you fix that little issue with steel cuffs that were too easy to escape? I just think should I install this version of the mod to my current playthrough or wait for the next version.

 

Thank you for your answer.

Forgot about it. How would you imagine the rebalanced cuffs so theyre are not easy?

On 10/21/2021 at 10:17 PM, BreadDain said:

- Action key used after (presumably every device?) gagball was open still opens interaction window with it, like it is still being locked.
- Pretty sure that getting lockpicking help from followers doesn't work.
- Something is wrong with hotkeys. MCM doesn't accept second hotkey change.

 

Fixed

On 10/21/2021 at 10:17 PM, BreadDain said:

- There is a control softlock issue after getting rid of any device, I cannot pinpoint what is to blame. Happened to me with Blindfold and Corset, I think some failsave is required.

 

Could you elaborate? What does control softlock mean?

[ihatemykite]

On 10/21/2021 at 1:32 AM, BillBellochek said:

The patch for The Facility is no longer included in the download. Is there a reason it's missing, or just accident?

After discussion with Facility developers we have come to agreement i will remove the patch for time being. Sorry for not adding it in patch notes, forgot about it.

[ihatemykite]

11 minutes ago, BreadDain said:

Is there any possibility for 1.5 reupload? I am running 1.6 for a fair amount of time and I don't think I can enjoy it anymore, the perfomance, even with tweaks and disabling other mods, is awful

Sure but there may be some other issues which are not fixed yet.Unforgiving devices 1.51a.zip I will try to increase the performance but first im gonna need to find out what is causing performance issue.

[BreadDain]

50 minutes ago, ihatemykite said:

What does control softlock mean?

Controls lock in the way that you can't play anymore or interact with menus after Escape, I assume that's the one which is applied to struggle minigame by default. Thing is that in really rare occasions it persists after minigame was finished.

 

42 minutes ago, ihatemykite said:

Sure but there may be some other issues which are not fixed yet.Unforgiving devices 1.51a.zip

Thank you! I can take this tradeoff, 1-2seconds lag during struggle completely saddens me, I tried to test the update as much as I can, but want also to play the game in meanwhile.
 

42 minutes ago, ihatemykite said:

I will try to increase the performance but first im gonna need to find out what is causing performance issue.

Would like to help you with that, but I am clueless as well, and also don't have any metrics or logs to compare. Would probably put log breakpoints after every function starting from device menu selection and finishing with minigame loop, and checking what time it takes to work, if i were you. It is something global, I'm almost sure, something like zad_libs calls or maybe script object interaction (because it is in some kind of chest? unloaded from memory? I can almost tell that there is a difference between interior and exterior struggle)

Edit: I forgot to add that for a brief moment, if you are able to click device quickly, original DD interaction opens, it has a small chance being related to the problem. Like if original mod tries to read those devices which are missing script reference, for example. Also clicking on item and hitting "Carry on" the device will instantly unequip it when UD will try to process it.

Edited October 23, 2021 by BreadDain

[Dust+]

35 minutes ago, ihatemykite said:

On 10/22/2021 at 9:15 AM, Dust+ said:

Hello @ihatemykite

 

Usually I don't ask such questions because I have a feeling it might be annoying for the developer but I'm too curious. Did you fix that little issue with steel cuffs that were too easy to escape? I just think should I install this version of the mod to my current playthrough or wait for the next version.

 

Thank you for your answer.

Forgot about it. How would you imagine the rebalanced cuffs so theyre are not easy?

I guess would be nice to make it a bit harder to reach the lock with lockpicks and also make the lock harder to pick because now even chastity belts are harder to pick than these cuffs. Expert locks would work I guess.

[ihatemykite]

2 hours ago, BreadDain said:

Controls lock in the way that you can't play anymore or interact with menus after Escape, I assume that's the one which is applied to struggle minigame by default. Thing is that in really rare occasions it persists after minigame was finished.

Sounds strange, will try to give it a look.

2 hours ago, BreadDain said:

1-2seconds lag during struggle completely saddens me

With crit?

2 hours ago, BreadDain said:

Would like to help you with that, but I am clueless as well, and also don't have any metrics or logs to compare. Would probably put log breakpoints after every function starting from device menu selection and finishing with minigame loop, and checking what time it takes to work, if i were you. It is something global, I'm almost sure, something like zad_libs calls or maybe script object interaction (because it is in some kind of chest? unloaded from memory? I can almost tell that there is a difference between interior and exterior struggle)

I'm already experimenting with papyrus logging and trying to see what it shows. But i will need more time to analyze every function. For now it looks like that the issue is in NPC slot update. To compare, before npc slot there was technically 1 slot for player. Now there are 11 (10 NPC + 1 player), so the update will atleast take 11x more time. From logging it looks like that the update takes more than 1s which is insane. Every slot have 20 devices slots, so there are totally 240 device slots. And every of this slots gets updated. I have few ideas how to make this less performance heavy. 1. is to reduce number of slots to 5. This is easiest solution but i can already hear peaple telling me that they want more slots. 2. is to make algorith better. The update is make from 2 parts. In first part the npc slots gets filled/updated with near npcs. In second part all items in npcs inventory gets searched for render devices, which are that used to register devices. But from logging it looks like that from 1s time, 95% of time is used for the device register. Ima gonna take a look if there is something to improve

3 hours ago, BreadDain said:

Edit: I forgot to add that for a brief moment, if you are able to click device quickly, original DD interaction opens, it has a small chance being related to the problem. Like if original mod tries to read those devices which are missing script reference, for example. Also clicking on item and hitting "Carry on" the device will instantly unequip it when UD will try to process it.

Clicking in inventory?

3 hours ago, Dust+ said:

I guess would be nice to make it a bit harder to reach the lock with lockpicks and also make the lock harder to pick because now even chastity belts are harder to pick than these cuffs. Expert locks would work I guess.

Will try it, but im gonna do it manually because there is only 1 item. You mean manacles right?

[BreadDain]

1 hour ago, ihatemykite said:

With crit?

Everything actually. Menus, struggle meter, crits and etc, Sometimes trying to struggle repeatedly will end it prematurely. Lag is unforgiving (lol), and I really tried to cut down on mods and papyrus resources expenditure, increasing budget and etc. Crits are almost always missed no matter how fast I react, and I have a decent one. The rest of the game works smooth for me, like no any other mod throws any kind of fit, just UD being cranky.
 

1 hour ago, ihatemykite said:

Clicking in inventory?

Yes, with current lag (or update time of 5 seconds it is?) it is more than possible to do.
 

Edited October 23, 2021 by BreadDain

[ihatemykite]

1 minute ago, BreadDain said:

Everything actually. Menus, struggle meter, crits and etc, Sometimes trying to struggle repeatedly will end it prematurely. Lag is unforgiving (lol), and I really tried to cut down on mods and papyrus resources, increasing budget and etc. Crits are almost always missed no matter how fast I react, and I have a decent one.
 

Yes, with current lag (or update time of 5 seconds it is?) it is more than possible to do.
 

Found what you meand. I will try to figure out how to fix it but it should have no effect on performance.

[Dust+]

15 hours ago, ihatemykite said:

19 hours ago, Dust+ said:

I guess would be nice to make it a bit harder to reach the lock with lockpicks and also make the lock harder to pick because now even chastity belts are harder to pick than these cuffs. Expert locks would work I guess.

Will try it, but im gonna do it manually because there is only 1 item. You mean manacles right?

I mean zadx_shackles_steel. Thanks!

[cripplingdepression99]

Special edition player here, after installed the latest update, my game always ctd when tried to autosave, rolled back to previous version (1.34 I believe) didn't work, tried to disable all LL mod and problem still persist, now have to delete the whole game and reinstall everything, I've also downloaded all the patches for the other LL mod you release in the first place.

[BreadDain]

21 hours ago, ihatemykite said:

I'm already experimenting with papyrus logging and trying to see what it shows. But i will need more time to analyze every function.

Booted UD with https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/24124 and there is no noticable increase in script latency when struggling (mine is 76-90ms), but the menus still respond with a delay.

Suggestion: Add various vaginal plugs to sets when anal abadon variant is used, and bring plugs to the pool of various devices being equipped.

Edited October 24, 2021 by BreadDain

[ihatemykite]

6 hours ago, cripplingdepression99 said:

Special edition player here, after installed the latest update, my game always ctd when tried to autosave, rolled back to previous version (1.34 I believe) didn't work, tried to disable all LL mod and problem still persist, now have to delete the whole game and reinstall everything, I've also downloaded all the patches for the other LL mod you release in the first place.

Use mod organizer next time. Modding without MO is almost always suicide.

 

5 hours ago, BreadDain said:

Booted UD with https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/24124 and there is no noticable increase in script latency when struggling (mine is 76-90ms), but the menus still respond with a delay.

Suggestion: Add various vaginal plugs to sets when anal abadon variant is used, and bring plugs to the pool of various devices being equipped.

Did some research and hopefully fixed increased latency. The struggle minigame should now work much smoother. I just taked some hight perf function and proccesed them in separate thread using events. Of course not all functions can be done this way. I have also updated algorithm for updating npc slots which should also increase performance.

 

There are some notable native functions which have procces time in tens of ms.

-Actor.getAV

-UI.Invoke...

-and all random functions like

 

Utility.randomInt. Its quite insane that this takes literally tens ms... 

For now i have moved UI functions to separate thread because it shouldcnot cause issues. Then i have moved crit check to separate thread (because it contains randomInt). I will upload some beta versiom here once i have more time

 

 

[cripplingdepression99]

10 hours ago, ihatemykite said:

Use mod organizer next time. Modding without MO is almost always suicide.

Really? I've been using NMM since I began modding my game (fallout nv, 4, skyrim etc) I've even uninstalled other script-heavy mods like virginmarie's toys mod and my game can still run perfectly, are you certain that it isn't some compatible issue with the Special Edition? I'll admit my game had quite a lot of mods but these are mostly for graphics, bugs fixes and stability issues

[BreadDain]

5 hours ago, cripplingdepression99 said:

I'll admit my game had quite a lot of mods but these are mostly for graphics, bugs fixes and stability issues

And why do you think this mod is to blame when you already had stability issues?
 

5 hours ago, cripplingdepression99 said:

I've been using NMM since I began modding my game

NMM was fine back when it was actual, it got old, it got outdated, people acknowledged all the issues it had and moved on. Why are you still living the past tense? No matter how good you are with that mod manager, nobody will take your reports seriously because nobody can be absolutely sure thats not NMM that causes issues for you. Neither are you. Kindly suggest you to quit your comfort zone and spend some time learning modern mod manager usage, preferably mo2.

@ihatemykite bug report - DCL (UD patched) Ankle Chains 6F30C are having reversed effect, slow down on strip and grant normal speed when they are on. Edit: not just ankle chains have reversed or remaining slowdown effect, got permanent -30 either from boots or hobble straightjacket.
There is also nothing you can do with piercings on followers.
It is probably expected that inventory menus are closed when you select a type of struggle when you asking for followers help, they are not.

Edited October 25, 2021 by BreadDain

[ihatemykite]

5 hours ago, cripplingdepression99 said:

Really? I've been using NMM since I began modding my game (fallout nv, 4, skyrim etc) I've even uninstalled other script-heavy mods like virginmarie's toys mod and my game can still run perfectly, are you certain that it isn't some compatible issue with the Special Edition? I'll admit my game had quite a lot of mods but these are mostly for graphics, bugs fixes and stability issues

As @BreadDain said, you should use other MO. If you don't like mod orginizer 2, then at least use Vortex.

But let say that the issue isn't caused by NMM. Did you try making new save? Because once the save is corrupted, there is not realy much that you can do. If yes then there is not reali much to say, as there is litteraly nothing which can cause corruption of some other files which are shared beetwen saves in my mod. My mod barely do any work with HDD, except for saves. It doesn't even have MCM configuration file. If you installed my mod, then removed it, and it still cause your game to ctd, there have to be some other issue. Try to look if there are some file conflicts like with scripts (which is unlikely because the script name would have to be same)

 

5 hours ago, BreadDain said:

It is probably expected that inventory menus are closed when you select a type of struggle when you asking for followers help, they are not.

It is but it doesn't work because its dialogue. Nothing to do about it for now (maybe action script would solve it but i don't want to see that ever again).

 

5 hours ago, BreadDain said:

@ihatemykite bug report - DCL (UD patched) Ankle Chains 6F30C are having reversed effect, slow down on strip and grant normal speed when they are on. Edit: not just ankle chains have reversed or remaining slowdown effect, got permanent -30 either from boots or hobble straightjacket.
There is also nothing you can do with piercings on followers.

Will give it a look later. For now here is the beta as promisedUnforgiving devices 1.61 beta.zip

[cripplingdepression99]

5 hours ago, BreadDain said:

And why do you think this mod is to blame when you already had stability issues?

By stability issues, I mean the problems that came with the vanilla game

 

31 minutes ago, ihatemykite said:

As @BreadDain said, you should use other MO. If you don't like mod orginizer 2, then at least use Vortex.

But let say that the issue isn't caused by NMM. Did you try making new save? Because once the save is corrupted, there is not realy much that you can do. If yes then there is not reali much to say, as there is litteraly nothing which can cause corruption of some other files which are shared beetwen saves in my mod. My mod barely do any work with HDD, except for saves. It doesn't even have MCM configuration file. If you installed my mod, then removed it, and it still cause your game to ctd, there have to be some other issue. Try to look if there are some file conflicts like with scripts (which is unlikely because the script name would have to be same)

Tried vortex about 2 and a half years ago, even follow a tutorial video on youtube on how to set the whole thing up and yet the darn thing won't work. 

 

As for new save I actually made a brand new character to try the update out, after finished making the character and pick a random location to spawn at the live another live's mara statue, if I picked a outdoor location my game froze at the loading screen then CTD; if I pick a indoor location (a inn) the game would load into the location but would froze right away when the autosaving icon pop up and CTD. And when I tried my other save, same thing happened.

[BreadDain]

43 minutes ago, cripplingdepression99 said:

autosaving icon pop up and CTD

You most likely have some other corrupt mod (or incorrect game version of it) which CTDs you on save. UD has nothing to do with that, playing SE version myself.

[cripplingdepression99]

34 minutes ago, BreadDain said:

You most likely have some other corrupt mod (or incorrect game version of it) which CTDs you on save. UD has nothing to do with that, playing SE version myself.

I see, thanks 

[BreadDain]

Testing beta build, perfomance is much better, thank you.

Bugs: interacting with Abadon plug from follower inventory during Abadon quest produces quest-related message spam (hunger immeasurable bla bla), which doesn't equip set on you but breaks a minigame from going on.
Clicking on device after choosing interaction is not safe, it transfers render item to follower and... you know how it goes when script and render items are separated. Black hole, supernova.
When a plug ceases to vibrate it breaks struggle animation (???).
Cannot use Z skills when arms are bound. At least permit shouting?
Plug decided to equip some stuff during paired cutting minigame and broke it, [STOP MINIGAME] dialogue appeared on follower. Gone after next minigame.

Note: a follower can grab Abadon plug during the quest without consequences and drag it infinitely within their inventory. Maybe make it more devious, huh? Something like "Plug realizes that you attempt to trick it, and instead of punishing your betrayed follower, it controls their mind and orders to overwhelm you. With a supernatural strength, your follower easily pins you to the ground and forces the plug inside you." Maybe some flavour where the plug also commands your follower to restrain you with a set of devices instead of plug spawning them on you.

Another note: not sure if Sentient devices work anymore like they were before, triggering vibs every time you try to struggle out of them, they seem to only trigger timed effects now. Edited the belt to be 100% sentient, but it barely responded to any touching, paired struggle didn't trigger it for sure.

Edited October 25, 2021 by BreadDain

[BreadDain]

Spoiler

I am reaaaally curios what's going on here, why UD put its scripts in AddItemMenu