Will the new "overhauled" engine limit modding in the future?

[koaamz]

With the recent news of MS acquiring Zenimax, and Todd talking about how that helped to massively overhaul the engine they're going to use for Starfield and ESO6. 
My question is what does this mean for the modding scene, will this overhaul affect the limits of modding in a negative or positive way. I know that Bethesda's engine is in dire need of an overhaul, but if theres one thing about it that i liked, is the fact that it allowed a very versatile modding scene, modders were basically capable of changing every little thing about the game, to major things like entire frameworks like what we see here on this site.
I am honestly hoping it won't limit future modding in exchange for a "prettier" look.

E

[MIJ]

Since it's an overhaul I assume that they're just improving or replacing already existing systems in place instead of recreating everything from scratch, the way the game handles mods can be the same for all we know but the engine could probably handle them better and would allow for more mods to be installed than ever before. However we still don't know anything because nobody really got into detail on what exactly has been updated or changed.

 

And even if we get more info on what has been improved I'd be very cautious of Daddy Todd's sweet little lies.

[winny257]

4 hours ago, koaamz said:

With the recent news of MS acquiring Zenimax, and Todd talking about how that helped to massively overhaul the engine they're going to use for Starfield and ESO6. 
My question is what does this mean for the modding scene, will this overhaul affect the limits of modding in a negative or positive way. I know that Bethesda's engine is in dire need of an overhaul, but if theres one thing about it that i liked, is the fact that it allowed a very versatile modding scene, modders were basically capable of changing every little thing about the game, to major things like entire frameworks like what we see here on this site.
I am honestly hoping it won't limit future modding in exchange for a "prettier" look.

E

maybe modding for TES6 is over!
if you don't already know, according to the latest developments, Bethesda \ Zenimax is now owned by Microsoft!
and Microsoft is against Adult Mods, maybe there aren't even nude mods.

[koaamz]

18 hours ago, MIJ said:

Since it's an overhaul I assume that they're just improving or replacing already existing systems in place instead of recreating everything from scratch, the way the game handles mods can be the same for all we know but the engine could probably handle them better and would allow for more mods to be installed than ever before. However we still don't know anything because nobody really got into detail on what exactly has been updated or changed.

 

And even if we get more info on what has been improved I'd be very cautious of Daddy Todd's sweet little lies.

I really hope this is the case, i guess we'll have to wait and see.

[koaamz]

18 hours ago, winny257 said:

maybe modding for TES6 is over!
if you don't already know, according to the latest developments, Bethesda \ Zenimax is now owned by Microsoft!
and Microsoft is against Adult Mods, maybe there aren't even nude mods.

AFIK Bethesda is "somewhat" against adult mods too, but they simply don't bother that much because it eventually created a very, veryy large community that's dedicated to sexualize elder scrolls games which lead to the games being even more successful. And according to Phil spencer in his interview after the acquisition, they intend on "leaving" Zenimax and it's studios doing their own thing like before basically without interfering. 

[Ernest Lemmingway]

Time will tell whether folks retain official mod support or not. Given how little we've been told about Starfield in general, I doubt anyone outside BGS knows anything solid.

[MIJ]

On 9/21/2020 at 11:45 PM, winny257 said:

maybe modding for TES6 is over!
if you don't already know, according to the latest developments, Bethesda \ Zenimax is now owned by Microsoft!
and Microsoft is against Adult Mods, maybe there aren't even nude mods.

The only way for them to do this is to either :

1. Only allow mods to go through something like the creation club
2. Completely remove the ability to mod the game in the first place and not release a new creation kit software.

However, I'm sure that someone will find a workaround for case #1 and if case #2 happens then we'll have to pray that there is a workaround for that and we can create our own version of the creation kit that allows us to mod TES6.

But if both of those never happen then the only thing we can worry about is them finding Nexus or LL because some modders broke their "terms of service" on a singleplayer game that they (the modder) bought with their money.

[PinkyAndTheBrain]

Animation and physics level modding has always been a clusterfuck of reverse engineering and hacking the engine. They don't have to change a whole lot for the effort to go from gargantuan to forget about it.

 

Honestly if they are going to massively overhaul animation, I think it would be better for modding if they just used Unity or Unreal ...

[Ernest Lemmingway]

17 hours ago, MIJ said:

1. Only allow mods to go through something like the creation club

That's a fear I've had for a while. It would be economic suicide since modding is the one thing that makes Bugthesda games tolerable these days, much less popular. Forcing mods to go through the CC or just BethNet because of legal restrictions would kill the long-term viability of their games. But I've learned never to underestimate the power of greed and stupidity.

[EvilReFlex]

On 9/21/2020 at 11:45 PM, winny257 said:

maybe modding for TES6 is over!
if you don't already know, according to the latest developments, Bethesda \ Zenimax is now owned by Microsoft!
and Microsoft is against Adult Mods, maybe there aren't even nude mods.

 

I believe the same thing will happen. 

If there will be modding, it will be much much much more limited as in skyrim. 

Modding for AAA games is dead. look around no new game offers mod or mapping tools. 

 

 

 

[Darkening Demise]

Microcuck is infamous for being far left snowflakes just like SOYny. Don't expect anymore Sexlabs now. Hell you'll be lucky to even see Skooma in the next TES. They banned smokes in Gears 5!

[koaamz]

So from what I've seen here people are worried more about the fact that Microsoft might limit modding, I actually doubt that personally, One being that MS is intending on leaving Bethesda to do its thing without interfering, also we've seen the difference between MS and Sony in terms of console mods, MS are way more lenient towards outside assets being used, so that's a promising thing (i guess?).

And honestly despite their mishaps, Todd/Bethesda have always supported modding in general, I mean Bethesda's name even became synonymous with "mods", in addition, Phil seems like a guy who actually cares about the gaming industry, they certainly have their reasons for buying Zenimax/Bethesda, But from what I've read it seems the only thing MS will contribute to is in financing (obviously exclusivity decisions too, but it won't really affect us here since we're on pc).

All I'm saying that it wouldn't make sense simply "abolishing" the modding scene or limiting it to CC , since it would probably cause backlash, plus their games not being as successful.

 

[winny257]

I keep asking myself, how could that happen?
Bethesda \ Zenimax is a multi-billion dollar company, but Microsoft could buy it that easily!
which hair was in the soup, either Beth lost more and more money, or the US government is demanding better surveillance with the help of Microsoft.
one thing is certain for me, this will happen very often in the future! 

Spoiler

[winny257]

On 9/23/2020 at 6:54 PM, Ernest Lemmingway said:

That's a fear I've had for a while. It would be economic suicide since modding is the one thing that makes Bugthesda games tolerable these days, much less popular. Forcing mods to go through the CC or just BethNet because of legal restrictions would kill the long-term viability of their games. But I've learned never to underestimate the power of greed and stupidity.

don't forget one thing, Skyrim was one of the most successful games.
if TES6 would appear now \ today, what do you think will happen?
I'll tell you what happens, millions of people would buy TES6 and hope that mods appear!
after 6 months to 1 year there are always still no mods, but the game has already been sold millions of times and that's what a game developer is all about! 

[Ernest Lemmingway]

7 hours ago, winny257 said:

don't forget one thing, Skyrim was one of the most successful games.
if TES6 would appear now \ today, what do you think will happen?
I'll tell you what happens, millions of people would buy TES6 and hope that mods appear!
after 6 months to 1 year there are always still no mods, but the game has already been sold millions of times and that's what a game developer is all about! 

And how many people will wait another five to ten years for the next game without mods to tide them over? The money they make on the game at first will run out before then. Worse for Bugthesda, the loss of mod support means no way for people to fix the bugs they can't, or won't, fix themselves. Finally, Bugthesda Game Studios's games have gained a reputation as "the games we can mod." Take that away and interest will disappear like morning fog.

[winny257]

34 minutes ago, Ernest Lemmingway said:

And how many people will wait another five to ten years for the next game without mods to tide them over? The money they make on the game at first will run out before then. Worse for Bugthesda, the loss of mod support means no way for people to fix the bugs they can't, or won't, fix themselves. Finally, Bugthesda Game Studios's games have gained a reputation as "the games we can mod." Take that away and interest will disappear like morning fog.

but not all are the same, me for example play my games unmodified, the only exception was Skyrim, but also just a naked body and a few outfits.
all the games I buy i never lose interest in that, now for example, I've been playing for over a year daily for over 12 hours ACO and as you know, Assassin's Creed games are not modifiable.

[Varithina]

44 minutes ago, winny257 said:

but not all are the same, me for example play my games unmodified, the only exception was Skyrim, but also just a naked body and a few outfits.
all the games I buy i never lose interest in that, now for example, I've been playing for over a year daily for over 12 hours ACO and as you know, Assassin's Creed games are not modifiable.

If you take a look on nexus you will find quite a few of the assassins creed games listed as having mods available, how many no idea but they are there.

[FauxFurry]

1 hour ago, winny257 said:

but not all are the same, me for example play my games unmodified, the only exception was Skyrim, but also just a naked body and a few outfits.
all the games I buy i never lose interest in that, now for example, I've been playing for over a year daily for over 12 hours ACO and as you know, Assassin's Creed games are not modifiable.

https://www.nexusmods.com/assassinscreedodyssey

[winny257]

1 hour ago, Varithina said:

If you take a look on nexus you will find quite a few of the assassins creed games listed as having mods available, how many no idea but they are there.

yes I knew that, I wrongly phrased my sentence.
if only there was something like that for Kassandra, then I can do without!

Kassandra has a beautiful face but a totally ugly body and this body is not modifiable, I mean the meshes. 

that would be perfect! 

[Ernest Lemmingway]

3 hours ago, winny257 said:

but not all are the same, me for example play my games unmodified, the only exception was Skyrim, but also just a naked body and a few outfits.

I know. But you're in the minority. The sheer number of mods on sites like Nexus, the number of visitors it gets daily, and even the number of visitors to LL itself and the number of downloads, all of that says people play Skyrim and whatnot because they can mod it. Would people put in hundreds, much less thousands, of hours into these games if they couldn't mod them? Would there still be concurrent players on Steam numbering in the five-digit range without mods? Maybe after two years. But five or even ten years? I'd say no.

 

And that's my point. Bugthesda Game Studios has built their reputation around their games supporting mods. Every single-player offline game BGS itself has produced since Morrowind has supported mods. They've had to; the games are so buggy they need unofficial patches and fixes to be playable with or without mods. If their games can't be modded, they lose the one thing they still have going for them. Other companies are perfectly capable and willing to create open-world RPGs. Some like CDPR already have. Without mods, BGS games literally can't compete. They'd be forgotten as soon as something better comes out.

[FauxFurry]

4 hours ago, Ernest Lemmingway said:

I know. But you're in the minority. The sheer number of mods on sites like Nexus, the number of visitors it gets daily, and even the number of visitors to LL itself and the number of downloads, all of that says people play Skyrim and whatnot because they can mod it. Would people put in hundreds, much less thousands, of hours into these games if they couldn't mod them? Would there still be concurrent players on Steam numbering in the five-digit range without mods? Maybe after two years. But five or even ten years? I'd say no.

 

And that's my point. Bugthesda Game Studios has built their reputation around their games supporting mods. Every single-player offline game BGS itself has produced since Morrowind has supported mods. They've had to; the games are so buggy they need unofficial patches and fixes to be playable with or without mods. If their games can't be modded, they lose the one thing they still have going for them. Other companies are perfectly capable and willing to create open-world RPGs. Some like CDPR already have. Without mods, BGS games literally can't compete. They'd be forgotten as soon as something better comes out.

Even Daggerfall needed help from modders to function properly though no mod tools such as the Construction Kit existed just yet. With or without the Gamebryo/Creation Engine, their games are too complicated to run well out of the box without fresh eyes and skilled hands catching their errors that they let slide after project fatigue likely set in. 

[Ernest Lemmingway]

3 hours ago, FauxFurry said:

Even Daggerfall needed help from modders to function properly though no mod tools such as the Construction Kit existed just yet. With or without the Gamebryo/Creation Engine, their games are too complicated to run well out of the box without fresh eyes and skilled hands catching their errors that they let slide after project fatigue likely set in. 

I know. I almost mentioned that.

[Christopher1900]

I don't often post here, but if anyone thinks Microsoft won't have an influence on Bethesda because they pinky sweared to us they would leave them to do their own thing;  Activision said the same thing about Blizzard.

[Ernest Lemmingway]

3 hours ago, Christopher1900 said:

I don't often post here, but if anyone thinks Microsoft won't have an influence on Bethesda because they pinky sweared to us they would leave them to do their own thing;  Activision said the same thing about Blizzard.

EA, Activision, Take-Two Interactive most likely here, how many times have publishers come in and fucked everything up?