JerWA Posted April 6, 2013 Posted April 6, 2013 There is a solution? Perhaps no race version. Too bad thanks. I'm not 100% sure but this may be fixed in R3, coming soon to a download near you. If it isn't, it'll become my next project.
en_hawk Posted April 6, 2013 Posted April 6, 2013 Hawk you rock! It does take away one of my projects but actually having it done right is probably more important than me having things to do. I'll give it a whirl here in a bit and, more than likely, cast my vote for it as a replacement over the generic XPMS. Edit: Hawk when I use this skeleton I'm getting the default 1.06 scale from PSA, and scale 1 puts me at 6' like a Nord. What'd I break? Or this as it should be until/if/when ESP changes to the race are made? My noobism is showing I'm sure. Yeah, the ESP needs to be updated, as the scaling is now [supposed to be] taking place on the race's scale value. I did some comparisons, and it looks like a final scale of 0.8 is pretty darn close to the scale provided by the old skeleton. I made a quick edit of the latest versions esp and changed the race's female scale from 0.98 to 0.80, I tested it on a clean install and it did the trick. One thing I want to point out about PSA as it threw me off at first; the value it shows on the scale slider is your actual scale, not your actor scale. Actual scale meaning your race's scale * actor scale; if you do player.getscale the console prints this value as "(with base: ##)". So if you start a new game PSA will say your scale is 0.8, despite your actor scale being untouched, and set to the default 1.0. Also the height calculation is just roughed, it assumes 6' for a scale of 1.0. I've attached the patched ESP, give that a go and let me know how it works out. edit: oh one thing I forgot to mention, for some reason PSA does NOT like low race scales, and jacks your scale through the roof after leaving chargen. I recommend turning PSA off until after you leave chargen and it autosaves, then you can quit and turn it back on and it works fine. YChildren of the Sky.esp
JerWA Posted April 6, 2013 Posted April 6, 2013 Hawk you rock! It does take away one of my projects but actually having it done right is probably more important than me having things to do. I'll give it a whirl here in a bit and, more than likely, cast my vote for it as a replacement over the generic XPMS. Edit: Hawk when I use this skeleton I'm getting the default 1.06 scale from PSA, and scale 1 puts me at 6' like a Nord. What'd I break? Or this as it should be until/if/when ESP changes to the race are made? My noobism is showing I'm sure. Yeah, the ESP needs to be updated, as the scaling is now [supposed to be] taking place on the race's scale value. I did some comparisons, and it looks like a final scale of 0.8 is pretty darn close to the scale provided by the old skeleton. I made a quick edit of the latest versions esp and changed the race's female scale from 0.98 to 0.80, I tested it on a clean install and it did the trick. One thing I want to point out about PCA as it threw me off at first; the value it shows on the scale slider is your actual scale, not your actor scale. Actual scale meaning your race's scale * actor scale; if you do player.getscale the console prints this value as "(with base: ##)". So if you start a new game PCA will say your scale is 0.8, despite your actor scale being untouched, and set to the default 1.0. Also the height calculation is just roughed, it assumes 6' for a scale of 1.0. I've attached the patched ESP, give that a go and let me know how it works out. edit: oh one thing I forgot to mention, for some reason PSA does NOT like low race scales, and jacks your scale through the roof after leaving chargen. I recommend turning PSA off until after you leave chargen and it autosaves, then you can quit and turn it back on and it works fine. Gave it a try, seeing something the same with XPMS in that the proportions are different. Forearms especially are hugely wrong hehe. Getting some weird physics activity too when I jump where every once in awhile instead of landing all the way I enter the flying/falling animation but I don't know why. No weight change in the ESP, and it did it once even after I took the hkx out. Seems like it's missing a frame when jumping, and then after I scaled and setweight 0 it went smooth and didn't stick any more. I dunno what I did. Anywho here's what I'm talking about. Scale isn't perfect since I had to guess one by hand and didn't spend any time at it, just wanted to show the stretched/out of ratio arms.
en_hawk Posted April 6, 2013 Posted April 6, 2013 Gave it a try, seeing something the same with XPMS in that the proportions are different. Forearms especially are hugely wrong hehe. Getting some weird physics activity too when I jump where every once in awhile instead of landing all the way I enter the flying/falling animation but I don't know why. No weight change in the ESP, and it did it once even after I took the hkx out. Seems like it's missing a frame when jumping, and then after I scaled and setweight 0 it went smooth and didn't stick any more. I dunno what I did. Anywho here's what I'm talking about. Scale isn't perfect since I had to guess one by hand and didn't spend any time at it, just wanted to show the stretched/out of ratio arms. prop.jpg Oh, that's Race Menu causing that. In the latest version the author added bone scale sliders for various different arm bones and the head. Bit of a design flaw, but it doesn't read the current scale in before setting the slider value to 1.0, and thus the bone to 1.0; clearing the scale that is applied in the skeleton nif. Right now I'm testing on a brand new install that doesn't have race menu installed yet, I'm not sure why it would only be causing issues on the XPMS based skeletons and not the CotS ones as well. I just looked at the mod page for Race Menu and it appears all the bone scaling sliders are contained in RaceMenuPlugin.esp. My suggestion would be to turn that off until it gets fixed, you can take a look at the mod page for a list of which sliders specifically are contained in there. As for the jumping issue, that's a problem with either FNIS or the skeleton.hkx. I can't remember exactly which off the top of my head, but its been happening to me for ages now even on the vanilla races, I'm not sure how to fix it. Which ever it was, I remember it clearly having a warning about it on the mod page stating that it was a known bug... Let me know if there are any other problems, and I'll see what I can do about them. I've also attached a screenshot of me running my skeleton on a fresh character with only CotS and Alternate Start installed.
medic975 Posted April 6, 2013 Posted April 6, 2013 How would you guys recommend installing if all I want from this mod is to change the vanilla children in game with regular cloths and meet the Adalia Follower requirement. I don't want to play as a child or any of the armors I just think the skyrim children are really lacking compared to the rest of the game.
JerWA Posted April 6, 2013 Posted April 6, 2013 Oh, that's Race Menu causing that. In the latest version the author added bone scale sliders for various different arm bones and the head. Bit of a design flaw, but it doesn't read the current scale in before setting the slider value to 1.0, and thus the bone to 1.0; clearing the scale that is applied in the skeleton nif. Right now I'm testing on a brand new install that doesn't have race menu installed yet, I'm not sure why it would only be causing issues on the XPMS based skeletons and not the CotS ones as well. I just looked at the mod page for Race Menu and it appears all the bone scaling sliders are contained in RaceMenuPlugin.esp. My suggestion would be to turn that off until it gets fixed, you can take a look at the mod page for a list of which sliders specifically are contained in there. As for the jumping issue, that's a problem with either FNIS or the skeleton.hkx. I can't remember exactly which off the top of my head, but its been happening to me for ages now even on the vanilla races, I'm not sure how to fix it. Which ever it was, I remember it clearly having a warning about it on the mod page stating that it was a known bug... Let me know if there are any other problems, and I'll see what I can do about them. I've also attached a screenshot of me running my skeleton on a fresh character with only CotS and Alternate Start installed. D'oh! Things I wish I'd known an hour ago, before I spent that hour re-sizing the skeleton by hand to see if that kept the other fixes in place haha. I'll try it now. As for the animation it's something to do with height, I remember reading about it somewhere. I'm standing in the floor, so it's freaking out a bit sometimes when I clip down. I even saw the fix, just have to find it again. I don't use FNIS, and the only HKX I've ever used is the XPMS one that's now removed (going back in lol). Edit: Nope, still no joy. Modded ESP plus no more plugin plus modded skel = arms too long still. PS: Removing the race menu plugin also fixed my feet clipping into the floor. How would you guys recommend installing if all I want from this mod is to change the vanilla children in game with regular cloths and meet the Adalia Follower requirement. I don't want to play as a child or any of the armors I just think the skyrim children are really lacking compared to the rest of the game. I'd recommend making yourself an archive to use in NMM. Let me know if you need help with that process. Essentially you want the main files, plus the fixes, and the xvision ESP. Load everything like you were installing the full mod and then uncheck/deactivate YChildren of the Sky.esp. Voila. Be aware it does tamper with some vanilla resources for face gen and such. Hence why I recommend NMM so you know when it's conflicting with a mod and can just say not to overwrite anything.
silvernirvash Posted April 6, 2013 Posted April 6, 2013 are there ANY outfits out there made for the male children of skyrim body? i'd very much like to actually play a male for once instead of playing a female with slightly less feminine figure just to be able to look cute >w<
JerWA Posted April 6, 2013 Posted April 6, 2013 See this thread: http://www.loverslab.com/topic/15220-armors-for-yii-techniques-labors-children-of-the-sky/ Also PM'd you.
alabataille Posted April 8, 2013 Posted April 8, 2013 any chance of making a version with only the new race and without any other changes to the vanilla including vanila children, new raggy clothes or twicked redguard women plz ...
hafertaler Posted April 8, 2013 Posted April 8, 2013 You should try the fix for the redguard problem, it was working for me when I played with this mod and you can at least use the included option for NPC children so they use the vanilla clothes. He is also working on a new version at the moment, so you'll just have to wait and see which complaints still apply to that one when it comes out. Anyway thanks for the mod, it's well done and I didn't run into any problems I can think of. I appreciate the work you put into it.
bbbower Posted April 9, 2013 Posted April 9, 2013 Any updates on R3 ?? XD Very excited! Also can someone link or point me to the difference in the X117-UBB and the regular? I see that there are different armors but I don't see any links or information on the difference between the bodies or downloading the other version, thanks!
JerWA Posted April 9, 2013 Posted April 9, 2013 UBB stands for un blessed body, and it's included in the main download under options. It changes the upper body mesh to be a bit more Children of the Sky and less Teenagers of the Sky.
bbbower Posted April 9, 2013 Posted April 9, 2013 UBB stands for un blessed body, and it's included in the main download under options. It changes the upper body mesh to be a bit more Children of the Sky and less Teenagers of the Sky. Ahhh I see now, thank you! However in my folder there is a flat chst folder, i assume thats it? or am I perhaps missing something?
grifterrik Posted April 9, 2013 Posted April 9, 2013 (edited) I've personally done a lot of research in this area; scaling should be handled by the actor scale value on the race record(like Bethesda did on all of the vanilla races). Setting actor scale via the console has several negative repercussion and affects your characters damage etc. Using rescaled skeletons causes the chargen menu to not work, breaks npc head tracking, and probably a whole bunch of other stuff I'm forgetting. Like you've discovered yourself, you need to run a skeleton without any downscaling to make Race Menu(or the vanilla chargen) work properly. After that you can use PCEA to get your visual height where it needs to be, and adjust your movement speed and jump height as you please. Switching to reduced actor scale will [correctly] reduce your speed and jump height by whatever your scale is set to(so figure about 20%), hence the other benefit of PCEA is that you can adjust them back up independent of your scale value. What needs to be taken into account is that CotS uses a skeleton with rescaled bones that helps give the race its look. XPMS also has rescaled bones, however its values are taken from this mod. So I took it upon myself to port the correct scaling over to XPMS; this custom skeleton is based on XPMS, does not have any built in downscaling, has some extra pre-bone nodes for use in translation, and has the same proportions as the skeleton used by CotS. If you also install the skeleton_female.hkx included in XPMS, you are able to use any mods that make use of the extra bones provided by XPMS, however it is not required to use my skeleton. I haven't gotten direct permission directly from xp32 to make this, however the permission statement at the bottom of his mod page is rather... 'open'. So here's my edited skeleton(attached). I also have a 'blank' version without any scaling if anyone is interested. Sorry to butt into your conversation here, but I've got a question. This was exactly what I came here looking for and I just want to make sure I go about this the correct way: I've downloaded PSA, I have a character already made, and i've replaced the ychildren...esp file. I'm just not sure where to put the skeleton nif file you linked. Should it be renamed "skeleton_female_x117.nif" and go in the oriental/x117 folder? And if so, does the hkx file get renamed as well and put there? I think I read that PSA won't use the skeleton files with non-standard names (or is that why you patched the esp?) I'm sort of lost on how to proceed. Appreciate any directions! Edited April 9, 2013 by grifterrik
JerWA Posted April 9, 2013 Posted April 9, 2013 Ahhh I see now, thank you! However in my folder there is a flat chst folder, i assume thats it? or am I perhaps missing something? That's the one. Sorry to butt into your conversation here, but I've got a question. This was exactly what I came here looking for and I just want to make sure I go about this the correct way: I've downloaded PSA, I have a character already made, and i've replaced the ychildren...esp file. I'm just not sure where to put the skeleton nif file you linked. Should it be renamed "skeleton_female_x117.nif" and go in the oriental/x117 folder? And if so, does the hkx file get renamed as well and put there? I think I read that PSA won't use the skeleton files with non-standard names (or is that why you patched the esp?) I'm sort of lost on how to proceed. Appreciate any directions! Goes in: \Data\meshes\actors\character\Oriental\x117 Replaces: skeleton_female_x117.nif Be aware that, for me at least, it isn't maintaining ratio with the original. The original is not just re-sized, but re-proportioned and the one hawk uploaded does not appear to maintain that. YMMV. I still have the one I was working on where I was trying to recreate the proportions by hand but using the newer XPMS skeleton, so I may pick that back up at some point.* Edit: Forgot to mention it works fine with the x117 skeleton. No worries about naming. I'm also kinda curious if that naming thing is true, since your race calls a skeleton I wonder if they can pull information out of the game via SKSE and therefore find your skeleton no matter what it's named. *Edit2: Checked my skeleton in-game and man it makes me LOL. Upper body is re-proportioned, or at least mostly, but lower body hasn't been touched yet so the end effect is Nord+ sized legs and CoTS sized upper body. I can confirm that, so far at least, despite tampering with the scaling it hasn't broken the first person camera. So I suspect what's happening here is a parent node is missing in the CoTS skeleton (I've noticed the top level container for each one is not there) and the game inherits the inner objects scaling automatically when that happens and that's freaking out the camera because it's picking up a scaled value. The "new" XPMS skeleton has the parents all set at 1.00 even though the inner objects are scaled individually, and the camera works fine. Might also be that it's tied to a node I just haven't updated yet, so I guess we'll see.
en_hawk Posted April 9, 2013 Posted April 9, 2013 Sorry to butt into your conversation here, but I've got a question. This was exactly what I came here looking for and I just want to make sure I go about this the correct way: I've downloaded PSA, I have a character already made, and i've replaced the ychildren...esp file. I'm just not sure where to put the skeleton nif file you linked. Should it be renamed "skeleton_female_x117.nif" and go in the oriental/x117 folder? And if so, does the hkx file get renamed as well and put there? I think I read that PSA won't use the skeleton files with non-standard names (or is that why you patched the esp?) I'm sort of lost on how to proceed. Appreciate any directions! The skeleton goes in "meshes\actors\character\Oriental\x117\skeleton_female_x117.nif". If you already have a charcter made then you should be good to go. The only issues are when starting a new char: PSA needs to be turned off until after you finish making your char, and if using Race Menu "RaceMenuPlugin.esp" needs to be turned off completely/uninstalled. Edit: @JerWA the proportions are supposed to be the same, though its possible they got updated since I made this, I'll go double check and release an update if so.
grifterrik Posted April 9, 2013 Posted April 9, 2013 JerWa and en_hawk: Thanks so much. That all worked flawlessly and I still have the same body proportions after adjusting height. I was hoping to get it to work with one of the weapon on back mods, but that seems to require yet a different skeleton. Oh well, I'm happy being able to adjust the size without altering speed, damage, etc. Thanks again!
en_hawk Posted April 9, 2013 Posted April 9, 2013 The proportions are actually slightly off on the skeleton I posted earlier... I'm working on fixing it, having JerWA look at it first but it seems to be fixed. No harm playing with the skeleton I posted earlier, as long as you don't mind the slight inconsistency in porportions. New skeleton will be posted shortly.
grifterrik Posted April 9, 2013 Posted April 9, 2013 The proportions are actually slightly off on the skeleton I posted earlier... I'm working on fixing it, having JerWA look at it first but it seems to be fixed. No harm playing with the skeleton I posted earlier, as long as you don't mind the slight inconsistency in porportions. New skeleton will be posted shortly. Out of curiosity, how is it off? I took a good long look and couldn't see any difference. Wondering if I'll be able to see it if I know what it is.
JerWA Posted April 9, 2013 Posted April 9, 2013 The proportions are actually slightly off on the skeleton I posted earlier... I'm working on fixing it, having JerWA look at it first but it seems to be fixed. No harm playing with the skeleton I posted earlier, as long as you don't mind the slight inconsistency in porportions. New skeleton will be posted shortly. Out of curiosity, how is it off? I took a good long look and couldn't see any difference. Wondering if I'll be able to see it if I know what it is. Arm to pelvis to leg ratio. Most easily seen by looking at how far down the finger tips are relative to the body. Don't know what it is about my eye/brain but the difference made me twitch and set out looking into how to adjust. Forgot to mention, like en_hawk said he's sorted it out. New one looks good to my eye, just putting the final touches on it and it'll be added to the thread. w00t!
grifterrik Posted April 9, 2013 Posted April 9, 2013 Arm to pelvis to leg ratio. Most easily seen by looking at how far down the finger tips are relative to the body. Don't know what it is about my eye/brain but the difference made me twitch and set out looking into how to adjust. Forgot to mention, like en_hawk said he's sorted it out. New one looks good to my eye, just putting the final touches on it and it'll be added to the thread. w00t! Good eye. I didn't see it, but now that you've told me I do. Doesn't bother me really, though there are things that get to me like that sometimes so I know what you mean. Like quivers floating a foot off the back!
en_hawk Posted April 9, 2013 Posted April 9, 2013 Alright, everything appears to be in order, here's the updated skeleton! skeleton_female_x117.nif
grifterrik Posted April 9, 2013 Posted April 9, 2013 Can I bug you two fine upstanding members of the LL community one more time? I discovered PSA is not friendly some other mods because it screws up bbp stuff. I disabled the esp when confirming this, and found that my chars height did not change at all afterwards. So what I'm wondering is if you might be able to tell me if the changes PSA makes in scale settings is permanent. What I'm thinking is I can activate it when I want to adjust a new character, then deactivate it for the actual playing. Or will all the scale stuff go out the window and leave me with the same thing I would have had I just done a basic "setscale"?
JerWA Posted April 9, 2013 Posted April 9, 2013 And here's my version. Not sure if en_hawk put the weapon scaling back in or not, but this is as close on the proportions as we collectively could get (mostly hawk haha). I've also included the updated ESP to address scaling in-game and change the voice. That might be stupid on my part, so please chime in if that's not something I should have done and it's the end of the world. Also, I saw no permissions limitations on the first post, but if jiitek wants this to come down I'll do so immediately. This is also completely free for jiitek to do with as he pleases, including throwing it away or adding it to R3, or making me update it for R3.1 or something. But only jiitek, because this is his work to begin with. That said... CoTS-R2 Skeleton Update v001 Click to read all about it CoTS R2 - Skeleton UpdateVersion: 001Released: 08 Apr 2013 Requires:Children of The Sky R2MAY require Skyrim 1.9 for the ESP. Please let me know if this is the case. Resources from:CoTS R2 by jiitekXPMS updated skeleton by en_hawk This covers female only at this time, and will overwrite 2 files.- \Data\YChildren of the Sky.esp- \Data\meshes\actors\character\Oriental\x117\skeleton_female_x117.nif This update makes a few changes: 1) The CoTS female skeleton is replaced with a newer XPMS skeleton.- This fixes first person camera scaling, it will now adjust to your height whatever you set that to.- This fixes the character not looking straight ahead during character creation.- This should also apply to female vampire CoTS.- As much of the original scaling and proportions as possible have been maintained. 2) The YChildren of the Sky.esp has been adjusted.- Race scaling has been changed to .78 from 1.00 to maintain stature without having to setscale in game.- Default female player voice has been changed to FemaleYoungEager. Known issues: 1) If you run the Player Size Adjuster mod you will need to disable it during character creation.- Create your character, save your game and exit. Re-enable PSA. It may still cause some havok. To-do: (In no particular order) *) Spend some time with weapon placement to address some clipping issues.*) Figure out if this voice is fully functional as a player voice. And if people don't want that change.*) Convince jiitek to roll changes into R3, or update for R3 once it's released. Version History: 001 - 09 Apr 2013 - Initial release.
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