aaf [AAF] "The Fucking Manual" ~ Adult oriented setup guide 7th/April/2024).

[Slavocado]

I tried making an account for moddingham but I am not receiving any activation emails so I can't log in. I checked my spam folder and it isn't there either. Do I have to use the latest version or will it work with the one that's on nexus?

[VicMackey]

Yeah my moddingham account was deleted without any reason given and i only made it so i can get aaf, probably inactivity bad place to upload aaf in my opinion unless aaf wants to go patreon only i can understand that.

Edited September 27, 2021 by VicMackey

[Tanglin]

Is Zaz Extended Skeleton 4.0 supposed to fix the knee problem, or am I supposed to get it fixed from another mod?

[VicMackey]

8 minutes ago, Tanglin said:

Is Zaz Extended Skeleton 4.0 supposed to fix the knee problem, or am I supposed to get it fixed from another mod?

Any fix for the knees will result in conflicts. The only knee fix i know is Skeletal Adjustments for CBBE - Knee Fix - Legs for Days - 3BBB.

 

And the author said "Also, please do not try to use this directly with mods requiring the ZaZ-Extended-Skeleton, such as BodyTalk or Fusion Girl."

[Tanglin]

25 minutes ago, VicMackey said:

Any fix for the knees will result in conflicts. The only knee fix i know is Skeletal Adjustments for CBBE - Knee Fix - Legs for Days - 3BBB.

 

And the author said "Also, please do not try to use this directly with mods requiring the ZaZ-Extended-Skeleton, such as BodyTalk or Fusion Girl."

 

This is disappointing. I care more about the knees looking right than, say, the vaginal opening up or something. I followed the guide on the front page, but I don't know why I have to use ZaZ if it can't do the things that I care about. 

[Back2friday]

2 hours ago, Tanglin said:

 

This is disappointing. I care more about the knees looking right than, say, the vaginal opening up or something. I followed the guide on the front page, but I don't know why I have to use ZaZ if it can't do the things that I care about. 

 

What do you mean you dont know why you have to install ZaZ????? Do you people ever read mod page's descriptions? 

 

Its been a year or 2 since i played FO4, i acutally uninstalled everything to save 200 GB on my ssd and was bored with everything anyway and apperently there are still no fixes for the knee. My solution? None, well..

You can slide the knee down a bit in bodyslide, but it wont completely fix it. CBBE just have to deal with this. It was bothering me too, but after a while, trust me you wont even notice it anymore. Unless you look for it. 

Your other solutions is Fusion Girl, but you probably have to sacrifice some clothing mods, or have to convert them and probably have to reinstall alot of mods. 

 

If you look at FO4 and AAF addon mods as a whole, there are alot of other ANNOYING bugs that can not be fixed. So annoying, you will forget about the knee. Also the knee is only visible when crouching, so maybe just go in first person mode if you cant stop looking at it. Put some lovely nails on your fingers to watch at lol 

[Tanglin]

1 hour ago, Back2friday said:

 

What do you mean you dont know why you have to install ZaZ????? Do you people ever read mod page's descriptions? 

 

Its been a year or 2 since i played FO4, i acutally uninstalled everything to save 200 GB on my ssd and was bored with everything anyway and apperently there are still no fixes for the knee. My solution? None, well..

You can slide the knee down a bit in bodyslide, but it wont completely fix it. CBBE just have to deal with this. It was bothering me too, but after a while, trust me you wont even notice it anymore. Unless you look for it. 

Your other solutions is Fusion Girl, but you probably have to sacrifice some clothing mods, or have to convert them and probably have to reinstall alot of mods. 

 

If you look at FO4 and AAF addon mods as a whole, there are alot of other ANNOYING bugs that can not be fixed. So annoying, you will forget about the knee. Also the knee is only visible when crouching, so maybe just go in first person mode if you cant stop looking at it. Put some lovely nails on your fingers to watch at lol 

Read the Zaz mod description for pre-requisites? Sure. I wouldn't have been able to set AAF up correctly otherwise. But read what it actually does? What's the point? I have no choice but to install Zaz anyway, since it is part of the current AAF installation "orthodoxy". You either download all the required mods, or your AAF doesn't work right. According to the installation bible, Zaz is required for CBBE, so I have to install it regardless of whether I need any of its functions. The question, phrased differently, is why does AAF not work right unless it is installed? Why do I have to install it if I don't need what it offers, like tongue action or opening vaginas?

 

[vaultbait]

47 minutes ago, Tanglin said:

Read the Zaz mod description for pre-requisites? Sure. I wouldn't have been able to set AAF up correctly otherwise. But read what it actually does? What's the point? I have no choice but to install Zaz anyway, since it is part of the current AAF installation "orthodoxy". You either download all the required mods, or your AAF doesn't work right. According to the installation bible, Zaz is required for CBBE, so I have to install it regardless of whether I need any of its functions. The question, phrased differently, is why does AAF not work right unless it is installed? Why do I have to install it if I don't need what it offers, like tongue action or opening vaginas?

 

 

The ZeX skeleton is not a pre-requisite of AAF. All AAF strictly needs to function is the game engine and F4SE (technically also LLFP, but a compatible copy is shipped along with AAF). Everything else is optional, but you'll generally want more than just AAF if you want to be able to actually use it for anything. That's where this guide comes in.

 

The ZeX skeleton is listed as a requirement in this guide because the BodyTalk and Atomic Muscle male body replacers make use of it. Also certain animation packs make use of it, for example Savage Cabbage's.

[Back2friday]

1 hour ago, Tanglin said:

Read the Zaz mod description for pre-requisites? Sure. I wouldn't have been able to set AAF up correctly otherwise. But read what it actually does? What's the point? I have no choice but to install Zaz anyway, since it is part of the current AAF installation "orthodoxy". You either download all the required mods, or your AAF doesn't work right. According to the installation bible, Zaz is required for CBBE, so I have to install it regardless of whether I need any of its functions. The question, phrased differently, is why does AAF not work right unless it is installed? Why do I have to install it if I don't need what it offers, like tongue action or opening vaginas?

 

 

Whats the point? So you dont respond by reading only the first line and not the whole post. 

 

What you mean you dont need what it offers? Then why install AAF if you care more about pretty knee's than sexual physics...

You want a Ferrari, but not actually drive fast? You just want to have it parked and look pretty? 

For those questions you gonna need a modder to answers that. It is what it is and just have to deal with it. 

 

You can look at it this way:

If you want to play games (AAF), you will have to get a gpu (modded skeleton). The integrated video card (vanilla skeleton) wont do the job. In this case the ZAZ is the gpu, but unfortunately this lastest gpu (zaz skeleton) get some frame drops (knee bug). So unless you can make a better gpu (zaz skeleton) there is nothing you can do about it. 

[Tanglin]

17 minutes ago, vaultbait said:

 

The ZeX skeleton is not a pre-requisite of AAF. All AAF strictly needs to function is the game engine and F4SE (technically also LLFP, but a compatible copy is shipped along with AAF). Everything else is optional, but you'll generally want more than just AAF if you want to be able to actually use it for anything. That's where this guide comes in.

 

The ZeX skeleton is listed as a requirement in this guide because the BodyTalk and Atomic Muscle male body replacers make use of it. Also certain animation packs make use of it, for example Savage Cabbage's.

 

I'm glad you brought up Bodytalk and Atomic Muscle. I don't need my male NPCs to be buff or to change their body shape. Why do I need Bodytalk and Atomic Muscle if I don't need their features? And because Bodytalk and Atomic Muscle are required, the ZaZ skeleton becomes required too. And if certain animation packs use the features in Bodytalk and Atomic Muscle, I'm happy to not run those animations if it means I can fix Nora's knee, really.

[Tanglin]

8 minutes ago, Back2friday said:

 

Whats the point? So you dont respond by reading only the first line and not the whole post. 

 

What you mean you dont need what it offers? Then why install AAF if you care more about pretty knee's than sexual physics...

You want a Ferrari, but not actually drive fast? You just want to have it parked and look pretty? 

For those questions you gonna need a modder to answers that. It is what it is and just have to deal with it. 

 

You can look at it this way:

If you want to play games (AAF), you will have to get a gpu (modded skeleton). The integrated video card (vanilla skeleton) wont do the job. In this case the ZAZ is the gpu, but unfortunately this lastest gpu (zaz skeleton) get some frame drops (knee bug). So unless you can make a better gpu (zaz skeleton) there is nothing you can do about it. 

 

Err ... I'm not sure how to respond to this rambling nonsense. So long.

[vaultbait]

14 minutes ago, Tanglin said:

 

I'm glad you brought up Bodytalk and Atomic Muscle. I don't need my male NPCs to be buff or to change their body shape. Why do I need Bodytalk and Atomic Muscle if I don't need their features? And because Bodytalk and Atomic Muscle are required, the ZaZ skeleton becomes required too. And if certain animation packs use the features in Bodytalk and Atomic Muscle, I'm happy to not run those animations if it means I can fix Nora's knee, really.

 

That's fine, as I said all you really need to use AAF is working F4SE. Beyond that you can install whatever you want with it and try to get that working yourself. Have fun.

 

This guide is a necessarily opinionated walkthrough of using a collection of mods known to work reasonably well together, and which make use of AAF. It is not at all the only way to use AAF, but if you want to do something other than what's described in this guide then just do it. I don't understand why you're arguing against an opinion (which is what this guide is). De gustibus non est disputandum.

[Nebuchadnezzer2]

23 minutes ago, Tanglin said:

 

I'm glad you brought up Bodytalk and Atomic Muscle. I don't need my male NPCs to be buff or to change their body shape. Why do I need Bodytalk and Atomic Muscle if I don't need their features? And because Bodytalk and Atomic Muscle are required, the ZaZ skeleton becomes required too. And if certain animation packs use the features in Bodytalk and Atomic Muscle, I'm happy to not run those animations if it means I can fix Nora's knee, really.

Do you want a functioning penis?

[Tanglin]

33 minutes ago, vaultbait said:

 

That's fine, as I said all you really need to use AAF is working F4SE. Beyond that you can install whatever you want with it and try to get that working yourself. Have fun.

 

This guide is a necessarily opinionated walkthrough of using a collection of mods known to work reasonably well together, and which make use of AAF. It is not at all the only way to use AAF, but if you want to do something other than what's described in this guide then just do it. I don't understand why you're arguing against an opinion (which is what this guide is). De gustibus non est disputandum.

 

The "guide" is way too opinionated to be a proper guide. And by being linked in the first post of the AAF thread, it is artificially elevated to be more important than the contributions of others that the guide so blithely relegate as being incompatible. Anyway, I got my answer, which is that everyone seems to regard opening vaginas as being more important than knees that don't clip with their thighs. And if I wish to fix it, I won't get any useful information here. 

[maddadicusrex]

8 minutes ago, Tanglin said:

 

The "guide" is way too opinionated to be a proper guide. And by being linked in the first post of the AAF thread, it is artificially elevated to be more important than the contributions of others that the guide so blithely relegate as being incompatible. Anyway, I got my answer, which is that everyone seems to regard opening vaginas as being more important than knees that don't clip with their thighs. And if I wish to fix it, I won't get any useful information here. 

You can use CBBE and knee fix , you do not need ZEK if you do not use Body talk or Fusion Girl. You can use EVB for men, and see how sex works for you. You do not need the latest of any animation pack that mandates you need ZEK. I believe most current, just suggest it. If your penis does not erect, there are separate mods that can help with that. This guide is the author's opinion for the optimal mods that could work best together. Long before this guide, we were successfully using AAF with a lot less. Still can. 

[Tanglin]

6 minutes ago, maddadicusrex said:

You can use CBBE and knee fix , you do not need ZEK if you do not use Body talk or Fusion Girl. You can use EVB for men, and see how sex works for you. You do not need the latest of any animation pack that mandates you need ZEK. I believe most current, just suggest it. If your penis does not erect, there are separate mods that can help with that. This guide is the author's opinion for the optimal mods that could work best together. Long before this guide, we were successfully using AAF with a lot less. Still can. 

 

If I discard Bodytalk, I'd have to replace UAP with something else, I'm sure. Any suggestions?

[vaultbait]

15 minutes ago, Tanglin said:

 

If I discard Bodytalk, I'd have to replace UAP with something else, I'm sure. Any suggestions?

 

You don't have to replace UAP, you can just not install it. That is, replace it with nothing. As pointed out though, you'll likely want to install other mods which provide some of the things UAP does, but without knowing which of its features you want it's very hard to make suggestions. You're probably better off experimenting to see what does and doesn't work the way you're looking for.

[Nebuchadnezzer2]

41 minutes ago, Tanglin said:

 

The "guide" is way too opinionated to be a proper guide. And by being linked in the first post of the AAF thread, it is artificially elevated to be more important than the contributions of others that the guide so blithely relegate as being incompatible. Anyway, I got my answer, which is that everyone seems to regard opening vaginas as being more important than knees that don't clip with their thighs. And if I wish to fix it, I won't get any useful information here. 

If you'd read through things carefully, you'd see this:
 

Spoiler

Which solves the 'problem'.
And if you want a functioning penis, or simply without floating, broken, then yes, you need ZeX, and/or a proper GSS setup.

I would normally also point out, and chew you out, for not reading mod descriptions, but with BT3, FG, and ZeX being pulled from Nexus, and not really rehosted here/on a similar platform with a detailed description, it is admittedly a lot more difficult to know why, exactly, ZeX is necessary or what it does.

29 minutes ago, maddadicusrex said:

You can use CBBE and knee fix , you do not need ZEK if you do not use Body talk or Fusion Girl. You can use EVB for men, and see how sex works for you. You do not need the latest of any animation pack that mandates you need ZEK. I believe most current, just suggest it. If your penis does not erect, there are separate mods that can help with that. This guide is the author's opinion for the optimal mods that could work best together. Long before this guide, we were successfully using AAF with a lot less. Still can. 

(Both you and Tanglin:)
Of course the Fucking Manual is 'the authors' opinion', and of course you can still get a working setup without it.
It is simply a condensed, easy-to-follow guide to get a functioning setup.
Beyond that is up to you, as it also is if or when it breaks, if you, or anyone really, wants support from us (in the Discord, too much of a nuisance/pain in the ass here, even if we wanted to).

[vaultbait]

It's also generally worth pointing out that this is promoted as the "official" solution from the denizens of the AAF Discord because an opinionated and full-featured solution is what most users are looking for, and giving users too many choices becomes both impossible to maintain in a single document as well as overwhelming the "typical" user with making numerous decisions about things they don't thoroughly comprehend nor necessarily even want to have to think about. I feel like this guide does a great job of balancing simplicity with flexibility (these two dynamics are almost always at odds no matter the context), even if I don't personally follow it to the letter either.

 

If what you want is not the thing this guide provides, that's fine. It's an opportunity to experiment and publish your own guide covering an alternative set of solutions which incorporate your opinions instead, and for which you can provide support to users who want to follow it. Just be aware that this one covers the set of solutions for which its authors feel reasonably comfortable helping users, and if you choose to deviate from it then you're going to be mostly on your own. That's not always a bad place to be though, if it means you get to do things your own way, as long as you also take responsibility for those choices and their outcomes.

[Tanglin]

46 minutes ago, vaultbait said:

 

You don't have to replace UAP, you can just not install it. That is, replace it with nothing. As pointed out though, you'll likely want to install other mods which provide some of the things UAP does, but without knowing which of its features you want it's very hard to make suggestions. You're probably better off experimenting to see what does and doesn't work the way you're looking for.

 

Primarily, I need something that will provide F/F versions of the various animations.  

[Back2friday]

3 hours ago, Tanglin said:

 

Err ... I'm not sure how to respond to this rambling nonsense. So long.

 

Im just telling you how it is and there is little to nothing you can do about it. Im not playing this game anymore so i dont really care anyway. You're the one with an issue, not me. 

 

Rambling nonsense, coming from a guy that doesnt want sexual physics in a sexual mod.

You dont want the features of the zaz skeleton, you dont want the features of bodytalk/atomic muscle. All you want is your knee wihout the bug, thats only visible when you're crouching.

Its for you to understand why you need it. Alot of the new mods are build around that skeleton. 

 

You can use the knee fix, but you have to sacrifice one or the other. You cant have all of it and thats the reality, period. 

Matter of fact, there are 3 solutions to reduce and/or fix the bug, but apperently its "so long" for you to read the comments.

Slide the knee with bodyslide, use fusion girl or read the damn manual again. (#5)

"So long"... that says alot about you. So dont ask rambling nonsense questions like why you need this and that if you dont even bother to understand.

 

2 hours ago, Tanglin said:

 

Anyway, I got my answer, which is that everyone seems to regard opening vaginas as being more important than knees that don't clip with their thighs. 

 

Because they are already over it.

Because they are here mostly for the sex animations to work, not the knee bug. 

 

2 hours ago, Tanglin said:

And if I wish to fix it, I won't get any useful information here. 

 

DISCLAIMER: We at AAF Support Discord will NOT check this post regularly, mostly/only to update it.

Please redirect ANY and ALL issues towards AAF Discord where the staff of mods / troubleshooters will help you resolve them.
 

Tell them that you dont care about the "tongue action or opening vaginas", maybe someone there will create one, just for you. 

Have fun with your broken knee 

Edited September 27, 2021 by Back2friday

[Tanglin]

18 minutes ago, vaultbait said:

It's also generally worth pointing out that this is promoted as the "official" solution from the denizens of the AAF Discord because an opinionated and full-featured solution is what most users are looking for, and giving users too many choices becomes both impossible to maintain in a single document as well as overwhelming the "typical" user with making numerous decisions about things they don't thoroughly comprehend nor necessarily even want to have to think about. I feel like this guide does a great job of balancing simplicity with flexibility (these two dynamics are almost always at odds no matter the context), even if I don't personally follow it to the letter either.

 

If what you want is not the thing this guide provides, that's fine. It's an opportunity to experiment and publish your own guide covering an alternative set of solutions which incorporate your opinions instead, and for which you can provide support to users who want to follow it. Just be aware that this one covers the set of solutions for which its authors feel reasonably comfortable helping users, and if you choose to deviate from it then you're going to be mostly on your own. That's not always a bad place to be though, if it means you get to do things your own way, as long as you also take responsibility for those choices and their outcomes.

 

I will try out some stuff on my own, but the fact that I have to start from scratch without any resource only serves to demonstrate the damage of having an orthodoxy has on the community; the way it stifles others from making alternatives, since their contributions are easily branded "incompatible".

[vaultbait]

7 minutes ago, Tanglin said:

 

Primarily, I need something that will provide F/F versions of the various animations.  

 

I suppose you could just copy the relevant XML files from UAP in that case, but there are also other patches which provide some of that with fewer prerequisites, such as Staged Leito Plus Erection Fix.

 

But just to be clear, the manual this support thread exists for recommends a specific set of mods and patches (with some clearly scoped variations), so answers to questions about how to do something different than following this manual's recommendations is going to be an unofficial answer, by definition.

[Tanglin]

1 hour ago, Nebuchadnezzer2 said:

If you'd read through things carefully, you'd see this:
 

  Reveal hidden contents

Which solves the 'problem'.
And if you want a functioning penis, or simply without floating, broken, then yes, you need ZeX, and/or a proper GSS setup.

I would normally also point out, and chew you out, for not reading mod descriptions, but with BT3, FG, and ZeX being pulled from Nexus, and not really rehosted here/on a similar platform with a detailed description, it is admittedly a lot more difficult to know why, exactly, ZeX is necessary or what it does.

(Both you and Tanglin:)
Of course the Fucking Manual is 'the authors' opinion', and of course you can still get a working setup without it.
It is simply a condensed, easy-to-follow guide to get a functioning setup.
Beyond that is up to you, as it also is if or when it breaks, if you, or anyone really, wants support from us (in the Discord, too much of a nuisance/pain in the ass here, even if we wanted to).

 

Oh no, I think I'm good. I don't need your help, lest I get "chewed out".

[vaultbait]

4 minutes ago, Tanglin said:

 

I will try out some stuff on my own, but the fact that I have to start from scratch without any resource only serves to demonstrate the damage of having an orthodoxy has on the community; the way it stifles others from making alternatives, since their contributions are easily branded "incompatible".

 

Orthodoxies exist because the masses demand them. Heretics have the freedom to choose their own path, but do so knowing the consequences of that choice.