The Ancient Profession 2024-06-24

[ruddycray]

8 hours ago, OmniCaptor said:

 

That might be politically correct by modern standards, but not immersive in the game's setting. Playing a female character and not being interested in lesbian content, I would not enjoy it, but since women in Skyrim aren't really working in the kitchen all day(it has a more modern take on the female role in society) a patch might be a good option? Or having a smaller area where the women go, since lesbians are a minority.

 

I probably wouldn't download it if I only had a handful of male clients for my female character and the rest of the place was filled with non-clients, not to mention the quests having lesbian content.

 

This would definitely be configurable but you can sometimes tell  my thoughts on things by the defaults I set. I'm not opposed to giving more options for making things lean a little more lesbian, but I'll definitely keep the defaults to what they are now. There's lesbian stuff in the temple and some in Dibella's Garden, but it's not going to be something where I make it default to all of the women of Skyrim becoming heavily lesbian or bisexual.

[kamithemoon]

@ruddycray, If I may make a request, could you add specific voice conditions to each line of dialogue missing them?  Dialogue from scenes in particular are usually conditioned by quest aliases which the xedit script can't pick up.  xEdit also can't pick up individual voices from a formlist or keyword.  So if a dialogue is missing voice conditions for specific NPCs or voice types, the xedit script won't know what to do and will instead generate voices for all voice types.  This is why TAP has about 70k voices but less then half of them will ever be called for by the mod.

 

In the past, I've tried to recondition the dialogue myself but I can only guess at who is supposed to be talking.

 

Or, is there a way to export the csv from the Creation Kit for just the voices that have speaking lines?  I don't know how the creation kit works at all but if you could do that, it would be very helpful.  I would need the file path for the dialogue, the spoken line, and the voice type, and preferably organized by voice type.

Edited November 6, 2024 by kamithemoon

[ruddycray]

9 hours ago, kamithemoon said:

@ruddycray, If I may make a request, could you add specific voice conditions to each line of dialogue missing them?  Dialogue from scenes in particular are usually conditioned by quest aliases which the xedit script can't pick up.  xEdit also can't pick up individual voices from a formlist or keyword.  So if a dialogue is missing voice conditions for specific NPCs or voice types, the xedit script won't know what to do and will instead generate voices for all voice types.  This is why TAP has about 70k voices but less then half of them will ever be called for by the mod.

 

In the past, I've tried to recondition the dialogue myself but I can only guess at who is supposed to be talking.

 

Or, is there a way to export the csv from the Creation Kit for just the voices that have speaking lines?  I don't know how the creation kit works at all but if you could do that, it would be very helpful.  I would need the file path for the dialogue, the spoken line, and the voice type, and preferably organized by voice type.

 

If the dialogue is conditioned by quest alias (meaning GetIsAliasRef) then it's probably because it could be one of several people. Usually with those I've put the voice types on the alias itself.

 

If it's something where I just left off the ID check because you don't technically need it, then I can add those. At one point, I had gone through everything and made sure everything had some kind of condition where at least the Creation Kit could tell you what voice types could say the line. I thought there was a way to export that, but I've never really done much with it, so I don't know for sure.

 

There may be limits to what I can do in some situations, because the dialogue just has to be generic. But I'm willing to take a look at things and see where I can help.

[kamithemoon]

2 hours ago, ruddycray said:

 

If the dialogue is conditioned by quest alias (meaning GetIsAliasRef) then it's probably because it could be one of several people. Usually with those I've put the voice types on the alias itself.

 

If it's something where I just left off the ID check because you don't technically need it, then I can add those. At one point, I had gone through everything and made sure everything had some kind of condition where at least the Creation Kit could tell you what voice types could say the line. I thought there was a way to export that, but I've never really done much with it, so I don't know for sure.

 

There may be limits to what I can do in some situations, because the dialogue just has to be generic. But I'm willing to take a look at things and see where I can help.

 

I tried looking through it myself but it was a monumental task and especially so because I'm also mostly guessing as to the speakers.  But things like guard dialogue for example, uses the keywords for guards, though in vanilla game only FemaleNord, MaleGuard, and MaleNordCommander can appear as guards.  The xedit script can't distinguish this though so it generates voice lines for all possible voices since technically anyone could have the guard faction or keyword.

 

What I try to do in xedit is isolate grouped dialogue, for example guards, and copy them over to a new esp then delete the original.  This way, when I batch generate, I won't make guard dialogue for unused voices.  I was just hoping there's an easier way to do this with the creation kit.

 

If you could add specific voice types as conditions, that would be great, but that's probably not worth your time to do.  Instead, could you perhaps give me a list of which voice types are associated with which faction and keyword?  For example, the brothel madames, which voice types are available to them and which keyword/faction do you use to identify them in dialogue?

Edited November 7, 2024 by kamithemoon

[ruddycray]

1 hour ago, kamithemoon said:

 

I tried looking through it myself but it was a monumental task and especially so because I'm also mostly guessing as to the speakers.  But things like guard dialogue for example, uses the keywords for guards, though in vanilla game only FemaleNord, MaleGuard, and MaleNordCommander can appear as guards.  The xedit script can't distinguish this though so it generates voice lines for all possible voices since technically anyone could have the guard faction or keyword.

 

What I try to do in xedit is isolate grouped dialogue, for example guards, and copy them over to a new esp then delete the original.  This way, when I batch generate, I won't make guard dialogue for unused voices.  I was just hoping there's an easier way to do this with the creation kit.

 

If you could add specific voice types as conditions, that would be great, but that's probably not worth your time to do.  Instead, could you perhaps give me a list of which voice types are associated with which faction and keyword?  For example, the brothel madames, which voice types are available to them and which keyword/faction do you use to identify them in dialogue?

 

The Creation Kit knows which voice types are needed for each faction by looking at the faction list on the NPC. If an NPC is not always in the faction but can be in the faction at some point, Bethesda added the faction to the list and gave them a rank of -1. In the game, that's not in the faction, but for the Creation Kit it's enough for it to know that NPC's voice type needs to be included. I tried to follow the same pattern.

 

There is a form list with the voice types for madams. I'll try to get some of that information for you when I can get some time to look into it, if you can't figure it out from that.

[ruddycray]

9 hours ago, kamithemoon said:

 

I tried looking through it myself but it was a monumental task and especially so because I'm also mostly guessing as to the speakers.  But things like guard dialogue for example, uses the keywords for guards, though in vanilla game only FemaleNord, MaleGuard, and MaleNordCommander can appear as guards.  The xedit script can't distinguish this though so it generates voice lines for all possible voices since technically anyone could have the guard faction or keyword.

 

What I try to do in xedit is isolate grouped dialogue, for example guards, and copy them over to a new esp then delete the original.  This way, when I batch generate, I won't make guard dialogue for unused voices.  I was just hoping there's an easier way to do this with the creation kit.

 

If you could add specific voice types as conditions, that would be great, but that's probably not worth your time to do.  Instead, could you perhaps give me a list of which voice types are associated with which faction and keyword?  For example, the brothel madames, which voice types are available to them and which keyword/faction do you use to identify them in dialogue?

 

Madams are identified because they are high ranking in TAPDibellasGardenFaction. I think it's rank 8 or something like that. There isn't a separate madam faction right now, although I could add that if it would be helpful to you.

[kamithemoon]

2 hours ago, ruddycray said:

 

Madams are identified because they are high ranking in TAPDibellasGardenFaction. I think it's rank 8 or something like that. There isn't a separate madam faction right now, although I could add that if it would be helpful to you.

It might be.  I'm looking for a way to isolate dialogue by any means.  As far as I know, there are only a few madames, but they have a lot of dialogue.  So if I can isolate their voice types, that'll save me a lot on voice generation.  But I really don't want to give you much more work if this is too much.

 

Some of these voices sound much better then the others.  I don't know the context for this spoken line yet, but I look forward to hearing it in game.
Female Commander Example

Edited November 7, 2024 by kamithemoon

[ruddycray]

5 hours ago, kamithemoon said:

It might be.  I'm looking for a way to isolate dialogue by any means.  As far as I know, there are only a few madames, but they have a lot of dialogue.  So if I can isolate their voice types, that'll save me a lot on voice generation.  But I really don't want to give you much more work if this is too much.

 

Some of these voices sound much better then the others.  I don't know the context for this spoken line yet, but I look forward to hearing it in game.
Female Commander Example

 

I'm surprised you've got that one generated like that. That sounds like a line spoken by Sintaba, a male Khajiit. It should have a condition specifically for him on the dialogue.

[kamithemoon]

57 minutes ago, ruddycray said:

 

I'm surprised you've got that one generated like that. That sounds like a line spoken by Sintaba, a male Khajiit. It should have a condition specifically for him on the dialogue.

Well frick on a stick, but this is what I mean.  This dialogue line is conditioned in such a way that it generates for every NPC.

[ruddycray]

4 hours ago, kamithemoon said:

Well frick on a stick, but this is what I mean.  This dialogue line is conditioned in such a way that it generates for every NPC.

 

That line has a GetIsID check on it looking for that specific NPC.

 

The Creation Kit doesn't show a voice type for the line at all. I honestly don't know why that is. That line is absolutely, 100% intended for that NPC and that NPC alone, and the conditions say that. It seems like a fault in whatever calculates the voice types.

[kamithemoon]

1 hour ago, ruddycray said:

 

That line has a GetIsID check on it looking for that specific NPC.

 

The Creation Kit doesn't show a voice type for the line at all. I honestly don't know why that is. That line is absolutely, 100% intended for that NPC and that NPC alone, and the conditions say that. It seems like a fault in whatever calculates the voice types.

You are absolutely correct.  I played around with the script a bit and it turns out that if a voice is not defined in an NPC's records, Skyrim will default to the voice listed in the NPC's race.  However, the xedit script will get confused and generate voices for all voice types and genders.  So one thing I can do to lower voice gen is to define each NPC's voice type.  I can just use their racial records as that is what the game defaults to, unless you'd like them to have a specific voice?  The base voice is male/female eventoned in the racial records for the non beast races.

 

I don't know how the creation kit works but in xedit, there's a box near the top where you can assign a specific voice type.

 

Update: NVM, I looked through the esp and it looks like Sintaba and Assassin are the only unique NPCs without a defined voice type in their records and the Assassin doesn't appear to have dialogue.

Edited November 8, 2024 by kamithemoon

[1337DragonWolf]

On 11/5/2024 at 11:39 AM, OmniCaptor said:

 

That might be politically correct by modern standards, but not immersive in the game's setting. Playing a female character and not being interested in lesbian content, I would not enjoy it, but since women in Skyrim aren't really working in the kitchen all day(it has a more modern take on the female role in society) a patch might be a good option? Or having a smaller area where the women go, since lesbians are a minority.

 

I probably wouldn't download it if I only had a handful of male clients for my female character and the rest of the place was filled with non-clients, not to mention the quests having lesbian content.

Because it's purely for straight women, I wouldn't have downloaded this mod if it wasn't required for the modpack I'm using. Re-writing the mod isn't necessary, when a patch or options in the MCM menu to change things according to preferences could be done.

[kamithemoon]

59 minutes ago, 1337DragonWolf said:

Because it's purely for straight women, I wouldn't have downloaded this mod if it wasn't required for the modpack I'm using. Re-writing the mod isn't necessary, when a patch or options in the MCM menu to change things according to preferences could be done.

If that's all you wanted to do, you could do that yourself fairly easily.  Open up xedit and find a few of the brothel customers and just redirect their templates to a female NPC of your choice.  It won't change their dialogue but they'll be women.  That's the easy way.  To do more would by necessity require more work.

If you wanted to, you could turn them all into women, then you could do a quick rewrite of their dialogue to address this fact and everything should play out normally.

Be the change you want to see in the world =P.

[1337DragonWolf]

On 11/5/2024 at 7:53 PM, ruddycray said:

 

This would definitely be configurable but you can sometimes tell  my thoughts on things by the defaults I set. I'm not opposed to giving more options for making things lean a little more lesbian, but I'll definitely keep the defaults to what they are now. There's lesbian stuff in the temple and some in Dibella's Garden, but it's not going to be something where I make it default to all of the women of Skyrim becoming heavily lesbian or bisexual.

The option to opt out of straight stuff entirely would be appreciated, at least.

[miscys]

2 hours ago, 1337DragonWolf said:

The option to opt out of straight stuff entirely would be appreciated, at least.

That's not really feasible.

[ruddycray]

Yeah an option for zero straight stuff would be a hefty rewrite of a lot of things so that's definitely not going to be something I do.

 

I have had other requests for female brothel customers and to make the ratio adjustable. That's not quite as simple as it sounds but it's something I'm willing to consider doing. It's already possible to make it so that all same sex solicitation will be accepted.

[kamithemoon]

For the Dibealla's Garden Special jobs, what are the male voice actors that play your theater partner in the Sultry Bard and Lusty Argonian Maid shows?  I see that they're male alias 08 but that's as far as I can see and I can't determine what their voice types should be.

 

Same with the madames that organize the shows.  What are their voice types?

Edited November 8, 2024 by kamithemoon

[ruddycray]

2 hours ago, kamithemoon said:

For the Dibealla's Garden Special jobs, what are the male voice actors that play your theater partner in the Sultry Bard and Lusty Argonian Maid shows?  I see that they're male alias 08 but that's as far as I can see and I can't determine what their voice types should be.

 

Same with the madames that organize the shows.  What are their voice types?

 

The partner's possible voice types are in TAPDGMaleActorVoiceTypes. The director of the show is TAPDGDirectorVoiceTypes. I think those are both all of the male voice types and all of the female voice types, respectively. Not all of those will be used in the mod right now, but I set them the way that they are both so that I can expand in the future and also so that if anyone wants to create their own mod with a new Dibella's Garden location or something, they could use a different voice types than the ones I already made.

 

Sintaba did in fact not have a voice type set, so that's a good catch. I'll fix that.

[nilead]

After drinking the potion, game bugs out consistently (Sign from dibella quest)

First time, i get stuck on the floor. Second time, im standing, but there are no player controls and camera goes mad. Any help?

[ruddycray]

9 minutes ago, nilead said:

After drinking the potion, game bugs out consistently (Sign from dibella quest)

First time, i get stuck on the floor. Second time, im standing, but there are no player controls and camera goes mad. Any help?

 

Not unless I can reproduce the problem. Best to give me as much information as you can. Where are you standing when you drink it? Does it happen if you drink it while standing in a different spot? What other mods do you have installed? Things like that.

[nilead]

14 minutes ago, ruddycray said:

Not unless I can reproduce the problem. Best to give me as much information as you can. Where are you standing when you drink it? Does it happen if you drink it while standing in a different spot? What other mods do you have installed? Things like that.

Its a list of 1043 mods, it would be extremely difficult to pinpoint specific incompability. Standing in the hall of the dead between priest and the girl. Spot does not seem to matter, but ill try a couple more times. Any way to skip the scene entirely using setstage?

Edit: Three more times and it clicked as intended, had to stand by the bed, out of the way. Could also be the  mod i thrown in on top, makig played paralysis immune. Interestingly enough, it when girl wakes up (her clone spawned for the scene goes away and she stands up, she is almost throw through the roof. Could be something off with Z axis coordinates, not sure. Just glad its over.

Edited November 9, 2024 by nilead

[nilead]

1 hour ago, nilead said:

Just glad its over.

Spoke too soon, Ordination fails as well, hamal leads me to inner sanctum and then just spams "Lets waits for others to arrive". Waiting 48 hours does not seem to be enough(

Attaching load order,  thou as stated before, doubt a specific incompability can be pinpointed.

Build is on Skyrim SE 1.5.97 with Sl 1.63 + latest SL util. Potentially problematic mods... i dont know. Bakafactory's Dialogue/SLAP/SLHH and probably STA. Forcegreets are cool, but boy do they tend to mess things up.

Edit: Present NPCs are Senna, Orla, Anwen and Hamal. Not sure who is supposed to be there as well. Sassa?

Edit: Yep, moveto player on Sassa allows the quest to proceed. What breaks her package that should get her to come there herself is unknon.

Edit: And then the girl from solitude does not show up. Moving her with console as well into the temple gets her to walk to the altar in inner sanctum (the rest of the crew is still there), but after she kneels nothing happens. 

Something is seriously broken, but i have no idea how to check what exactly.

 

loadorder.txt

Edited November 9, 2024 by nilead

[ruddycray]

10 hours ago, nilead said:

Spoke too soon, Ordination fails as well, hamal leads me to inner sanctum and then just spams "Lets waits for others to arrive". Waiting 48 hours does not seem to be enough(

Attaching load order,  thou as stated before, doubt a specific incompability can be pinpointed.

Build is on Skyrim SE 1.5.97 with Sl 1.63 + latest SL util. Potentially problematic mods... i dont know. Bakafactory's Dialogue/SLAP/SLHH and probably STA. Forcegreets are cool, but boy do they tend to mess things up.

Edit: Present NPCs are Senna, Orla, Anwen and Hamal. Not sure who is supposed to be there as well. Sassa?

Edit: Yep, moveto player on Sassa allows the quest to proceed. What breaks her package that should get her to come there herself is unknon.

Edit: And then the girl from solitude does not show up. Moving her with console as well into the temple gets her to walk to the altar in inner sanctum (the rest of the crew is still there), but after she kneels nothing happens. 

Something is seriously broken, but i have no idea how to check what exactly.

 

loadorder.txt 29.83 kB · 0 downloads

 

Once everyone is there you do have to talk to Hamal.

 

When characters are not going where they are supposed to go the first thing I would look at if I were trying to figure this out myself is what AI package they are running, using something like More Informative Console. I'd be checking to make sure they are running the package that my mod is trying to make them run and not something overriding that from another mod, for example.

 

If they are running the right package but aren't moving I'd try to figure out what's keeping them from navigating to their destination, because that usually means something is blocking them. That could be navmesh issues, locked doors they can't open, or mods moving things around in ways that break the intended actions from where I put things.

 

Otherwise, if there's dialogue that's not happening that should be happening I'd be looking at the conditions on the dialogue to figure out which of them isn't met, after confirming that the quest containing the dialogue is running like it's supposed to be and isn't stopped.

 

Unfortunately, those all require me to see the problem happening, so the best I can do otherwise is to tell you what I would do in case you're comfortable with it yourself or hope that you can pinpoint mod interactions that I can look at.

 

Very rarely I can look at something and see where I overlooked something, but more often it's a problem I won't have encountered myself.

Edited November 9, 2024 by ruddycray

[kamithemoon]

If I may make a request, Isobel from Interesting NPCs is one of my favorite marriage partners as she's not a follower and stays home to work as a blacksmith but likes to listen to your stories of your adventures across Skyrim.  Could something similar be done with Tlatha Avaalu to make her a more robust marriage partner?  It would be interesting to see her exploring the city around my home and various NPCs reactions to her nudity.  Also, while most marriage partners open up a theoretical store and gift you some small share of the profits, I imagine Tlatha would simply continue her prostitution activities.

 

I like Isobel as someone I can come home to and I wonder if something similar could be done for Tlatha.

 

She could have a few things associated with her as a wife:

1. Perhaps she doesn't have licenses in every hold and you can take her on a small quest to get them.  Or she never had a license and finds out she has a small bounty on her.

2. NPCs can comment on her nudity

3. She can solicit NPCs as her version of a storefront and entertain them in your home.  Could be hilarious if you want to sleep but the bed is occupied.

4. You can tell her about major quests you've completed and she can comment on them


For anyone interested in expanding Tlatha content, I would also suggest https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/85908?tab=posts .

Edited November 9, 2024 by kamithemoon

[ruddycray]

5 hours ago, kamithemoon said:

If I may make a request, Isobel from Interesting NPCs is one of my favorite marriage partners as she's not a follower and stays home to work as a blacksmith but likes to listen to your stories of your adventures across Skyrim.  Could something similar be done with Tlatha Avaalu to make her a more robust marriage partner?  It would be interesting to see her exploring the city around my home and various NPCs reactions to her nudity.  Also, while most marriage partners open up a theoretical store and gift you some small share of the profits, I imagine Tlatha would simply continue her prostitution activities.

 

I like Isobel as someone I can come home to and I wonder if something similar could be done for Tlatha.

 

She could have a few things associated with her as a wife:

1. Perhaps she doesn't have licenses in every hold and you can take her on a small quest to get them.  Or she never had a license and finds out she has a small bounty on her.

2. NPCs can comment on her nudity

3. She can solicit NPCs as her version of a storefront and entertain them in your home.  Could be hilarious if you want to sleep but the bed is occupied.

4. You can tell her about major quests you've completed and she can comment on them


For anyone interested in expanding Tlatha content, I would also suggest https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/85908?tab=posts .

 

I like the idea. The execution may be the sticking point, because it takes a good amount of time to do something like that.

 

I have already put in some effort on at least one point - Tlatha should not say the dialogue about opening a store if you marry her. And if you move her into a home, she should say some lines about the fact that she is using it to entertain clients. When she gives you your weekly "store" earnings she should say it's from entertaining clients, too. Some of that dialogue is different if she's joined the Temple of Dibella. I forget all the details of how it's different, though.