CTD due to Animations but hear me out first

[TarnisMartell]

So as the title says, I think I am having constant CTDs because of the Animation-Limit.

Basically I can start new games and play till random CTD. But loading a save is always CTD.

 

This has been going on for a while now and I ve done a lot to work it out, read a lot of stuff, edited lines, added fixes and whatever.

None of it really made a difference.

 

So I started looking at the actual number of animations. Now heres the thing:

FNIS XXL says I got sth. around 11.500 animations and my CTD chance was 89%. (it was at 120% before so I deleted DD and 2 Questmods).

My problem is I cant get that number much lower. The biggest Animation Mod I have is Billyy Animation 2.71, uninstalling it only lowers the CTD chance FNIS showes me to about 85%.

Other than that I only have one other listed (major) animations mod, which contributes less than 4%. So I basically asked myself where all the extra %s were coming from.

 

To shorten this: I have massive Problems with Vortex. Every since I switched from NMM to Vortex a tonload of problems occured. As of right now Vortex simply doesnt uninstall shit.

I can deactivate or remove or dance in the rain, Vortex tells me it has been done but never actually touched the plugins. Also it did not list a number of mods installed

so I guess there are also other animation mods there but f*** vortex simply wouldnt show it. So there is some stuff in the files I dont even know of (anymore).

So I have to do it all manually in the end. But with animations I dont feel like I got this. There are so many files and things I dont know which one belongs where or what might happen if I just delete it.

I also found stuff from AP (Animated Prostitution) which I deinstalled 2 or 3 years ago but FNIS is still mentioning it.

When running FNIS consistency-check it shows me a tonload of "double Anim Events", could that be part of the problem? and how would I resolve this?

Is it possible to just delete parts of animation mods? (like the necro stuff or others which I d never use anyway?!)

 

I feel so lost and I am so angry about Vortex.. If only I had known how much this would nuke my set up...

 

My horror-scenario would be to delete everything and rebuild from scratch but right now I guess this would be the only solution to clean up that mess.

 

Is there anyone with a suggestion, or some experience, or a hint of what I was missing?! After months of tryn I am just desperate

[Psalam]

6 minutes ago, TarnisMartell said:

So as the title says, I think I am having constant CTDs because of the Animation-Limit.

Basically I can start new games and play till random CTD. But loading a save is always CTD.

 

This has been going on for a while now and I ve done a lot to work it out, read a lot of stuff, edited lines, added fixes and whatever.

None of it really made a difference.

 

So I started looking at the actual number of animations. Now heres the thing:

FNIS XXL says I got sth. around 11.500 animations and my CTD chance was 89%. (it was at 120% before so I deleted DD and 2 Questmods).

My problem is I cant get that number much lower. The biggest Animation Mod I have is Billyy Animation 2.71, uninstalling it only lowers the CTD chance FNIS showes me to about 85%.

Other than that I only have one other listed (major) animations mod, which contributes around 1.9%. So I basically asked myself where all the extra %s were coming from.

 

To shorten this: I have massive Problems with Vortex. Every since I switched from NMM to Vortex a tonload of problems occured. As of right now Vortex simply doesnt uninstall shit.

I can deactivate or remove or dance in the rain, Vortex tells me it has been done but never actually touched the plugins. Also it did not list a number of mods installed

so I guess there are also other animation mods there but f*** vortex simply wouldnt show it. So there is some stuff in the files I dont even know of (anymore).

So I have to do it all manually in the end. But with animations I dont feel like I got this. There are so many files and things I dont know which one belongs where or what might happen if I just delete it.

I also found stuff from AP (Animated Prostitution) which I deinstalled 2 or 3 years ago but FNIS is still mentioning it.

 

I feel so lost and I am so angry about Vortex.. If only I had known how much this would nuke my set up...

 

My horror-scenario would be to delete everything and rebuild from scratch but right now I guess this would be the only solution to clean up that mess.

 

Is there anyone with a suggestion, or some experience, or a hint of what I was missing?! After months of tryn I am just desperate

I am no guru but it does NOT sound like your animations are your problem. Neither your total number of animations, nor the fact that FNIS makes your risk 89%, nor, and most importantly, that your CTD is NOT on starting your game indicate an animation issue.

 

CTD problems at other times in the game are often a lack of the stability tools (see my blog on CTDs for more detailed information, the link to which can be found in the My Stuff spoiler in my signature). So, do you have these:

 

1) Crash fixes. Found here and fairly self-explanatory (as always, do read the directions):

 

https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/72725

 

2) ENBoost. This one is more difficult and I hope to do a walkthrough at some point in the future. It is VERY important if you have less than 4GB of VRAM. If you have 8GB or more you probably don't need it. At 4GB it's your call (I have 4GB and I use it). Anyway, you will need to look in more than one place in order to complete this (although it will take you through it). Start here:

 

https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/73618

 

As if ENBoost is not difficult enough MicroSoft has chosen to throw some additional glitches in for users of Windows 10. If you have problems getting ENBoost to work and you run Windows 10 take a look at this (I had to):

 

https://forums.nexusmods.com/index.php?/topic/3089504-fix-for-skyrim-crashing-instantly-with-enb-on-windows-10/?p=56131491

 

3) SKSE. ini. The SKSE program does not come with this. As a result you do not get all the benefits of SKSE. While you can make your own version this one is already complete and optimized.

 

https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/51038?tab=files

 

4) SKSE plugin preloader. Helps organize SKSE so as to improve management.

 

https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/75795

 

5) Bethini. Skyrim's .ini files give it directions on how to handle your game. Problems with .ini files can cause all sorts of problems. While it is entirely possible to deal with these files by yourself Bethini gives you a tool with which to handle them safely. It is also much more intuitive than editing the files by yourself. It can be found here:

 

https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/69787

 

And if you have problems with CTD on load do you have this:

 

https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/85443

 

 

[TarnisMartell]

25 minutes ago, Psalam said:

I am no guru but it does NOT sound like your animations are your problem. Neither your total number of animations, nor the fact that FNIS makes your risk 89%, nor, and most importantly, that your CTD is NOT on starting your game indicate an animation issue.

 

CTD problems at other times in the game are often a lack of the stability tools (see my blog on CTDs for more detailed information, the link to which can be found in the My Stuff spoiler in my signature). So, do you have these:

 

1) Crash fixes. Found here and fairly self-explanatory (as always, do read the directions):

 

https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/72725

 

2) ENBoost. This one is more difficult and I hope to do a walkthrough at some point in the future. It is VERY important if you have less than 4GB of VRAM. If you have 8GB or more you probably don't need it. At 4GB it's your call (I have 4GB and I use it). Anyway, you will need to look in more than one place in order to complete this (although it will take you through it). Start here:

 

https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/73618

 

As if ENBoost is not difficult enough MicroSoft has chosen to throw some additional glitches in for users of Windows 10. If you have problems getting ENBoost to work and you run Windows 10 take a look at this (I had to):

 

https://forums.nexusmods.com/index.php?/topic/3089504-fix-for-skyrim-crashing-instantly-with-enb-on-windows-10/?p=56131491

 

3) SKSE. ini. The SKSE program does not come with this. As a result you do not get all the benefits of SKSE. While you can make your own version this one is already complete and optimized.

 

https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/51038?tab=files

 

4) SKSE plugin preloader. Helps organize SKSE so as to improve management.

 

https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/75795

 

5) Bethini. Skyrim's .ini files give it directions on how to handle your game. Problems with .ini files can cause all sorts of problems. While it is entirely possible to deal with these files by yourself Bethini gives you a tool with which to handle them safely. It is also much more intuitive than editing the files by yourself. It can be found here:

 

https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/69787

 

And if you have problems with CTD on load do you have this:

 

https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/85443

 

 

First: Thank you for answering and listing potential -problem-solvers.

 

Actually I have done all of it already, except the Bethini thing which I didnt know yet. And because I ve done it all I came to the conclusion it should be the animations... But I am more confused than ever. I ll try the Bethini thing.. If it doesnt help I ll have to face the nuke options of simply leaving skyrim or clean install. both equally annoying.

[Grey Cloud]

54 minutes ago, Psalam said:

it does NOT sound like your animations are your problem. Neither your total number of animations, nor the fact that FNIS makes your risk 89%, nor, and most importantly, that your CTD is NOT on starting your game indicate an animation issue.

Agreed.

 

1 hour ago, TarnisMartell said:

edited lines, added fixes

Edited what lines? Added what fixes?

 

56 minutes ago, Psalam said:

I also found stuff from AP (Animated Prostitution) which I deinstalled 2 or 3 years ago but FNIS is still mentioning it.

That is impossible. Either it is not Animated Prostitution or you did not uninstall it correctly.

 

Post your load order and your FNIS output.

 

I don't use Vortex but it would appear that you need to re-read how to install and set it up correctly.

[Bluegunk]

Sounds like you really do need to do a clean fresh start to the game; there could be stuff in all sorts of places. Pulling mods mid-play will only wreck your save game.

And try Mod Organizer 2. I've heard a lot of people struggling with Vortex, (but others get on well with it).

 

There are plenty of YouTube videos on how to use MO2. I've used it for years. The biggest advantage is its ease of use: you have an install pane on the left, and an ESP pane on the right.

That means you can sort you esp/non-esp mods really easily in the left pane, making sure the mod you want to over-rule other mods really does so AND see conflicts as they arise.

 

I'd also dump BethINI. I've tried it a few times and I don't like how it works. Use the STEP guide for help on INI files but to be honest your best bet is to leave them alone, vanilla, and ONLY touch them if a mod specifically instructs you to do so.

 

The only way to make progress is add mod, sort mods, TEST.

 

Anyhow, just my two-pennies worth. Good luck!

[Heroine HoneyCrotch]

If your unhappy with Vortex, leave it. If your on LE switch over to MO1, very easy to use, amazing for troubleshooting, the luxury of being able to quickly disable all/most mods to determine problem mod is worth its weight in gold,if it had weight.  If you were on NMM for awhile and did a good amount of installing/uninstalling you might have minor problems with data folder, if you verified integrity of game files through steam inbetween mod managers you should be good, and off course if you used NMM accordingly you should of been good too. 

 

There is been a lot of users with animation problems lately, I use Animation Loading Fix mod found on Nexus, some bad reports from users in post.On my end I haven't had troubles with it. I see respectable mod authors also in post singing its praise? It might help with your ctds, did you not try it?

 

 

[Nymra]

DId you try this?

It increased my max animation cound by roughly 4000. 

 

https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/98204?tab=description

 

I had no drawbacks at all using this for half a year now.

I also think this tool is still widely unknown. 

 

And get MO2. 

I only could start REAL mod using and testing by installing that. 

It can be tricky to learn, but when you got the hang of it, it makes life 100 times easier. 

[Ankahet]

This doesnt sound like an animation issue.

 

I have about 14000 animations, and my game never CTD's due to animation. Most times I get a CTD, its because something I have done, or, forgot to do when testing a mod so on and so forth.

 

This sounds like more of an issue with the save either missing information, loading into a cell thats unstable because of a mod, or just being a bad save due to too many overwritten files and it gives up.

 

If you can create a new game and run fine until X time, I would more start looking into things that dont get called into action that much. A major one is creature animations. There are a few others, but, youll need to pick through your mods and load order with a fine tooth comb to see wahts actually going on.

[TarnisMartell]

Thank you all for the replies!

 

As I said I ve done most of the "usual", installed bug fixes, crash fixes, loading fixes, animation loading fix... as in special bug/CTD fixes suggested I ve added lines to the ini files, adjusted stuff to my pc specs and all that.

I have done that constantly over the years, always tryn to fix things. I seldomly did any of it when it didnt seem necessary.

 

Things really just got out of hand since I switched NMM to Vortex. As I installed a new Vortex version today and thought to myself: maybe this is a fix for the "Vortex just pretends to switch off mods" but it did not. whatever is new, I still have to deactivate the plugins manually. Whats the point of that Manager xD

So I am definetly switching manager as Vortex was a complete failure for me.

 

Fnis said my maximum would be around 13.500 animations.

 

I now tried to disable bigger parts of my modlist and see if it has an impact. so far it didnt but I ll probably try for another one or two days and see if anything works. then I ll make a decision.

I liked NMM because it was so simple, Vortex seemed simple too, but if it really doesnt do anything but showing SOME of the installed mods its clearly not made for my list.

And just know I m asking myself if Vortex even lets the bug/crash/loading fixes do its work. Thats how strange and chaotic Vortex is to me now.

 

Id still like to know if its possible to delete certain animations of a mod without damaging. like the ones I d never use. (necro/beast/creature). most come with a lot of these and they are useless to me, just taking up space.

Despite animations-count being the cause or not, Id like to know

 

Thing is, after all these years of constant mod management and troubleshooting I just dont have the patience(nor the time) anymore to spend days n weeks looking for ways to make it work. The only reason for me to go through this again is the new version of "Thief", which I translated and wanted to play. Its was a hell of a work and now I cant enjoy the thing >.>

 

Argh... sorry. A lot of complaining here... but I cant hold back right now. I m just disappointed (and confused).

 

Doesnt matter. in 10 minutes I ll resume tryn everything I can xD

[Nymra]

2 minutes ago, TarnisMartell said:

 

Id still like to know if its possible to delete certain animations of a mod without damaging. like the ones I d never use. (necro/beast/creature). most come with a lot of these and they are useless to me, just taking up space.

Despite animations-count being the cause or not, Id like to know

 

I am doing exactly that for well over a year now.
I strip mods and especially SLAL packs of all the animations that I dont want or ever use in game.

 

1. delete the entry of the animation in the JSON file (usually requires FNIS for users, but I just edited the stuff with Notepad++ and never had issues. FNIS will just tell you that the anim count differs, but to my experience it will still be reduced (I will improve that later and make a tutorial too).

IMPORTANT: even a wrong "space" or "," on the wrong spot will cause the SLAL to fail registering in SL Animation Loader. you get a console error when "Reloading JSON".

 

2. delete the entries of the animation in "FNIS.txt" in the animation folder

 

3. I personally also delete all the HKX files of said animations, but I think that part is not necessary.

 

IMPORTANT:
Creature animations have 1 part on their specific creature folder and one part in the character animation files. 

I also suggest you use excel to keep track of the anims removed and if you removed all necessary files of each animation.

 

Check out my files, I uploaded my modified versions of Billyy and Anubs already, more will follow.

 

[Grey Cloud]

Choose a mod manager, learn to use it and stick with it. You are using Vortex so learn how it works. Lots of people use it without problems and lots of people have problems with the other managers. They all have their good and bad points.

 

Double-check your settings/configuration of SKSE.ini, Crash Fixes, SKSE Plugin Preloader and ENBoost (enblocal.ini) by re-reading the description pages and following a guide such as S.T.E.P.

You may also want to double-check your Skyrim.ini and SkyrimPrefs.ini even if you are using Bethini.

Ditto you GPU settings.

 

Creature animations do not count towards your limit. Your actual limit is your limit - the number varies from user to user.

 

The numbers given by FNIS are a guide not an absolute cast-iron guarantee.

 

The simplest way to see if too many animations is your problem is to remove a pack or two.

 

Sexlab Framework has its own animation limit of 500 which can cause problems in-game. SLF calculates animations differently than FNIS. Or, put another way, SLF defines what an animation is in a different way than FNIS.

 

Too many animations produce CTDs on loading, i.e. the game will not load. CTDs in-game are 99% memory  issues.

 

Until you post a load order and your FNIS output, all is speculation.

 

 

[Nymra]

3 minutes ago, Grey Cloud said:

 

Too many animations produce CTDs on loading, i.e. the game will not load. CTDs in-game are 99% memory  issues.

 

Until you post a load order and your FNIS output, all is speculation.

 

 

 

Good point.

I often get Load CTD when I have like 10000 browser windows open.
When I play Skyrim I just shut down all other programs and especially the browser. Usually fixes that. 

[Grey Cloud]

9 minutes ago, Grey Cloud said:

CTDs in-game are 99% memory  issues.

These type of issues manifest at different places and after differing periods of game play. CTDs at the same place usually point to a bad mesh/nif.

[TarnisMartell]

lol.

If I press "deactivate" and Vortex then shows me "deactivated" I think I am pretty save to assume it actually should be deactivated. But when checking the plugin section no plugin ever got deactivated. I dont see how thats my mistake. if there is a button to do "x" and when I press it, it pretends it has done "x" but when checking it hasnt done anything except for pretending...

 

there is probably a tonload of potential mistakes I might have made along the way. Vortex pretending to be a ModManager really isnt among them.

I m happy for everyone who has a working Vortex nontheless.

 

Anyway. I ll try a bit more and then come back with FNIS and Load order.

The list of potential combinations left to check isnt long.

[GenioMaestro]

4 hours ago, TarnisMartell said:

So as the title says, I think I am having constant CTDs because of the Animation-Limit.

Basically I can start new games and play till random CTD. But loading a save is always CTD.

NOT. Yours CTD not have any relation to the animations, as others users has said.

If you have excesive animations you get CTD when you try start a New Game.

If you can start a New Game whitout any problem your not have excesive animations and that mean, whitout any posiblity of doubth, that "Yours CTD not have any relation to the animations"

 

The FNIS CTD% only mean how many near are you to the CTD caused by excesive animations.

Is not a indication about the probability of have CTD in your game. My game works whitout any problem for 4 or 5 consecutive hours with CTD:99.7% and i not have any problem.

 

 13191 animations for 61 mods successfully included (character).
ChAnims: 13191  CTD:99,7%  pOpt:20,7%  max: 13233  LC: 26079 (max. 26162)

 

4 hours ago, TarnisMartell said:

To shorten this: I have massive Problems with Vortex. Every since I switched from NMM to Vortex a tonload of problems occured. As of right now Vortex simply doesnt uninstall shit.

I can deactivate or remove or dance in the rain, Vortex tells me it has been done but never actually touched the plugins. Also it did not list a number of mods installed

Seems that you have made a bad migration. After import yours mods from NMM you must disable all yours mods in NMM to remove all the files that NMM put in your DATA folder. If you not make it Vortex go crazy because happen exactly that you say.

When you disable the mod in Vortex the files from Vortex are removed but the mod continue active and installed because is active in NMM and your DATA folder have the files that come from the installation of the mod made with NMM. You understand?

 

If you have your NMM instaled, open it and disable all the mods in NMM. 

If you have deleted/removed/uninstalled NMM you must make a manual cleaning of your DATA folder or uninstall the game, delete the DATA folder, install the game and start activating mods in Vortex.

[Grey Cloud]

1 hour ago, Nymra said:

DId you try this?

It increased my max animation cound by roughly 4000. 

Load Game CTD Fix is better as it it not just applicable to animations. Crashes on load can be caused by the amount of stuff being loaded in combination with a problem with multi-core processors. It is explained on the Load CTD Fix description page.

[Nymra]

13 minutes ago, Grey Cloud said:

Load Game CTD Fix is better as it it not just applicable to animations. Crashes on load can be caused by the amount of stuff being loaded in combination with a problem with multi-core processors. It is explained on the Load CTD Fix description page.

Load Game CTD Fix I am using for years. But the linked mod works in addition to that and indeed increased my animation count without CTD. 

 

Just use both at the same time, what is the problem? 

[TarnisMartell]

16 minutes ago, GenioMaestro said:

NOT. Yours CTD not have any relation to the animations, as others users has said.

If you have excesive animations you get CTD when you try start a New Game.

If you can start a New Game whitout any problem your not have excesive animations and that mean, whitout any posiblity of doubth, that "Yours CTD not have any relation to the animations"

 

The FNIS CTD% only mean how many near are you to the CTD caused by excesive animations.

Is not a indication about the probability of have CTD in your game. My game works whitout any problem for 4 or 5 consecutive hours with CTD:99.7% and i not have any problem.

 

 13191 animations for 61 mods successfully included (character).
ChAnims: 13191  CTD:99,7%  pOpt:20,7%  max: 13233  LC: 26079 (max. 26162)

 

Seems that you have made a bad migration. After import yours mods from NMM you must disable all yours mods in NMM to remove all the files that NMM put in your DATA folder. If you not make it Vortex go crazy because happen exactly that you say.

When you disable the mod in Vortex the files from Vortex are removed but the mod continue active and installed because is active in NMM and your DATA folder have the files that come from the installation of the mod made with NMM. You understand?

 

If you have your NMM instaled, open it and disable all the mods in NMM. 

If you have deleted/removed/uninstalled NMM you must make a manual cleaning of your DATA folder or uninstall the game, delete the DATA folder, install the game and start activating mods in Vortex.

Thank you very much. The problem with NMM was actually there in June/July.

Back then I kept NMM because I wanted to be cautious if anything with Vortex wouldnt work out. After some troubles I ended up doing exactly what you said and it did work.

But since then I dont have NMM anymore, so It cant be the cause this time.

 

I ve deactivated quite a lot now... without effect. So its down to "RavenBreakPrison, dvmb, Trade & Barter, Yield2 or approach redux", if none of these do anything I m off to clean install and new mod manager.

[Grey Cloud]

39 minutes ago, Nymra said:

what is the problem? 

I don't know; I don't have one.

[Nymra]

11 minutes ago, Grey Cloud said:

I don't know; I don't have one.

you wrote Load Game CTD fix is better while in fact they both seem to do different things and also work next to each other. So I just wondered if there are issues/problems with them beeing installed together that I dont know of. 

Since for me I cannot agree to you saying "it is better". 

[Grey Cloud]

19 minutes ago, Nymra said:

"it is better".

Better because it does more, i.e. not just animations.

I never really have a problem with too many animations. On my previous machine the max was roughly 13.5K. On this machine I currently have 10.xK but I've never taken it to the max so I don't know how many it can take.

[Nymra]

7 minutes ago, Grey Cloud said:

Better because it does more, i.e. not just animations.

I never really have a problem with too many animations. On my previous machine the max was roughly 13.5K. On this machine I currently have 10.xK but I've never taken it to the max so I don't know how many it can take.

Better I would use for something that does the same but better Both do different things. And both work alongside each other. 
 

Nvm. 

[GenioMaestro]

3 hours ago, TarnisMartell said:

Thank you very much. The problem with NMM was actually there in June/July.

Back then I kept NMM because I wanted to be cautious if anything with Vortex wouldnt work out. After some troubles I ended up doing exactly what you said and it did work.

But since then I dont have NMM anymore, so It cant be the cause this time.

 

I ve deactivated quite a lot now... without effect. So its down to "RavenBreakPrison, dvmb, Trade & Barter, Yield2 or approach redux", if none of these do anything I m off to clean install and new mod manager.

 

Vortex, sometimes, have problems with the pluging list when another program modify the pluging list while Vortex is closed.  I have, in the same machine, at the same time, installed and working, NMM, Vortex, MO1 and MO2, sharing the same savegames and the same pluging list. Sometimes, when I make test with others managers that change the pluging list, Vortex go crazy and the active plugings not match the active mods.

 

The solution for me is go to the folder x:\Users\(username)\AppData\Local\Skyrim and delete all the files.

Start Vortex and make a deploy to force the generation of the correct pluging list.

[TarnisMartell]

And the story gets even better.

After I manually removed Trade & Barter everything worked again (which is strange enough, it was installed for years and rarely ever activated anyway).

So I played for two hours streight. And did not change anything anymore.

 

Today, Vortex asked to install an update & restart. So I did.

 

And here we go again. CTD whenever I want to start or load a game.

 

But guess what: Now it actually deactivated plugins when I told it to.

 

Vortex is Troll.