Assisted Suicide?

[KoolHndLuke]

 I figure the source of most criticism is from people frustrated with life in general (to put it mildly). I mention this because of a friend of mine that is suicidal and is asking me for help in ending his life. I don't want to for various reasons and wonder if his life is really as bad as he makes out. I mean, I can understand wanting to die sometimes. But I also believe that some people could benefit from a different outlook on life. I will keep trying with him even though I don't really know how to help him. He is very set in his ways and very cynical about everything and everyone. He's had success and enjoyed the better things in life from what he has told me. But now that those things are gone, he just wants to check out.

[iJaVaFx]

56 minutes ago, KoolHndLuke said:

crit·i·cism
/ˈkridəˌsizəm/
noun
1. the expression of disapproval of someone or something based on perceived faults or mistakes.

2. the analysis and judgment of the merits and faults of a literary or artistic work.

 

 When I'm curious about various things I've recently discovered like books, games, movies, music or similar I think; "What are the reviews?" or "What did other people think of it?". I try to consider the reviewer's frame of reference on what they are reviewing. For instance, if it is a movie I find appealing and want to learn a little about it, I'd rather not read or hear "It's garbage compared to 'blah blah' because 'blah blah' was da shit, man!". I might find that funny or something, but it's not telling me anything about why they criticized something so. I just surmise that the reviewer in question is not being very serious, has trouble writing or articulating their thoughts and feelings, or they are an idiot. I am criticizing the reviewer based on what I felt was an inappropriate or uninformative critique. Of course I could just as easily criticize a reviewer that is in turn criticizing a movie I've already seen because they are wrong about some facts or perhaps I just don't agree with their overall opinion. If I happen to feel strongly enough about the subject (or the reviewer), I might even say or write something in response to the person's criticism and thus open myself up to their criticism. By the time I and this other person (and perhaps others interested) are finished "criticizing" each other and our different opinions, I might not even care anymore about the movie I was inquiring about in the first place. Anybody see where I'm going with this?

 

Scenarios like this one are all too common a reality in life. I'm not even sure most people realize how much they criticize everyone and everything, every day. Are we all just too critical? If so, then why or what do you think everyone's point of constant criticism is? I mean, what the fuck is "perfect" anyway? 

 

I propose something radically different in regards to how most everyone regards everything else: Try to figure out what it is that we do like about something or someone first and trust in the reasons for each of our own opinions while taking less account of so-called "popular" views on things which tend to be dismissive or overly critical much of the time. The guy preaching on Utub might sound like he knows what he is talking about, but in reality his opinion just echos what he thinks is popular sentiment with the sole purpose of gaining popularity and approval for himself and his channel. After admitting that we do indeed like something (or someone), it is much harder to point to it's every failing or weakness and dismiss it out of hand as trivial or unimportant. The concept is to try to build upon what is "good" while trying to improve what isn't. Encouraging others to do better while also pushing ourselves is far more conducive to overall positive results for everyone involved. This is not to say that anyone should just be some kind of cheerleader for everyone else. It just means that maybe it would be better to reserve criticisms until all information has become available in order to form a more comprehensive understanding and subsequent opinion. 

Critics are good regardless of the comment, it prove someone judgment over something, some critics can even help an artworks, but some other just aren't useful or just hard to masturbate to.. 

When it come to review it's not relevant really if your not considering yourself as an average citizen, taste change from people to people, critics really goes with someone personality, if you don't relate to a critics then you can't use it as relevant the next time you want a review over the same subject.

I actually didn't understood your post well i will probably review it again later on to understand the concept. 

 

[gregathit]

The common problem is that folks are trying to express their opinion based on their experiences/knowledge/likes/dislikes.  Which of course differs from others radically.  So while we often are saying the same thing, we don't know it because we are speaking (or hearing) the equivalent of a different language.

 

We humans are complicated.  Humans who are well off and do not have to spend the bulk of their time trying to keep themselves and their families feed are even more complicated.  LOL!

[KoolHndLuke]

5 hours ago, gregathit said:

We humans are complicated.  Humans who are well off and do not have to spend the bulk of their time trying to keep themselves and their families feed are even more complicated.  LOL!

Yeah, I guess what I'm getting at is all the cynicism most people seem to have. I have a friend that is suicidal and I just don't know what to say to him to make him feel better. I play along with his constant bitching and whining about how bad life is for him until it's starts making me feel like shit. And he's asking me to help him end his life- which I don't want to do. Is life really that bad for him?

[gregathit]

2 hours ago, KoolHndLuke said:

Yeah, I guess what I'm getting at is all the cynicism most people seem to have. I have a friend that is suicidal and I just don't know what to say to him to make him feel better. I play along with his constant bitching and whining about how bad life is for him until it's starts making me feel like shit. And he's asking me to help him end his life- which I don't want to do. Is life really that bad for him?

In his mind it is.  But in reality he just fine.  Folks like this need professional help.  The average person is not equipped to provide the help he needs.  I'd get a hold of a group that is geared towards helping folks who are clinically depressed or have some sort of mental problem.  Do Not Wait.  Folks that are like this don't know how to kick themselves in the ass and buck up like a normal person might.  They almost always get worse to the point they stop talking and start doing something drastic.  They may hate you for you getting them help.  It may end your friendship.  But is that better or worse than what you will feel if they go and do something drastic to themselves or others.  I'd look at the whole thing as a cry for help.

[Darkpig]

4 minutes ago, gregathit said:

In his mind it is.  But in reality he just fine.  Folks like this need professional help.  The average person is not equipped to provide the help he needs.  I'd get a hold of a group that is geared towards helping folks who are clinically depressed or have some sort of mental problem.  Do Not Wait.  Folks that are like this don't know how to kick themselves in the ass and buck up like a normal person might.  They almost always get worse to the point they stop talking and start doing something drastic.  They may hate you for you getting them help.  It may end your friendship.  But is that better or worse than what you will feel if they go and do something drastic to themselves or others.  I'd look at the whole thing as a cry for help.

Cry is such an ugly word in that it just makes depressed people angry. What they are feeling is what I consider a lack of happiness. Sometimes they are physical due to sickness or injury, sometimes it is mental such as low self esteem or merely being sick of the world's bullshit; you know the ones, politics, family issues, disagreement among friends, etc. What they need is somebody to talk to. If they have something they need to get off their chest but they don't trust you enough to tell you their deepest inner thoughts then maybe it something a psychologist might help solve the problem or at the very least soften the blow because society is (insert swearword here). Will it help? Probably not. It is worth a try though.

[gregathit]

2 minutes ago, Darkpig said:

Cry is such an ugly word in that it just makes depressed people angry. What they are feeling is what I consider a lack of happiness. Sometimes they are physical due to sickness or injury, sometimes it is mental such as low self esteem or merely being sick of the world's bullshit; you know the ones, politics, family issues, disagreement among friends, etc. What they need is somebody to talk to. If they have something they need to get off their chest but they don't trust you enough to tell you their deepest inner thoughts then maybe it something a psychologist might help solve the problem or at the very least soften the blow because society is (insert swearword here). Will it help? Probably not. It is worth a try though.

Not one word of what I said was meant to be said to the depressed person, so what is the freaking point of CRYING over the word cry?  This is a discussion with rational people not the mentally disturbed for crying out loud.  And "lack of happiness"?  Really?  All that says to me is you definitely aren't qualified to help them.  I know I'm not.

  

Now I do agree that they need someone to talk to, that is what I clearly stated.  What they don't need is someone white knighting.  They need PROFESSIONAL HELP.  Very few people have the time and skills needed to help folks like this.  What if this person is near the end and you try to white knight it and they go over the edge?  Don't kid yourself or anyone else.  Get them the help they need.

[Darkpig]

15 minutes ago, gregathit said:

Not one word of what I said was meant to be said to the depressed person, so what is the freaking point of CRYING over the word cry?  This is a discussion with rational people not the mentally disturbed for crying out loud.  And "lack of happiness"?  Really?  All that says to me is you definitely aren't qualified to help them.  I know I'm not.

  

Now I do agree that they need someone to talk to, that is what I clearly stated.  What they don't need is someone white knighting.  They need PROFESSIONAL HELP.  Very few people have the time and skills needed to help folks like this.  What if this person is near the end and you try to white knight it and they go over the edge?  Don't kid yourself or anyone else.  Get them the help they need.

I guess this is what people mean when talking about "soft language". To be honest I didn't mean for it to be a criticism really. Yes I know I'm not qualified being an evil pig wasting valuable time on the internet. I made it as a passing thought if anything. Sorry (Is that word overused? Whatever I'll go with it). Come to think of it what would be the rational thing to say be? Maybe try "Get help" and then go from there.

 

PS. I am offended you called me a white knight so call us square⬜.

[KoolHndLuke]

1 hour ago, Darkpig said:

Sometimes they are physical due to sickness or injury

He has severe diabetes and has already had many operations and some organs (like his colon) removed. He only has one hand and now his doctors are telling him they need to remove one of his legs. This is an intelligent, rational person for the most part and I do sympathize with both his predicament and his just wanting to "end it". I'm really not sure if I would feel different were I in his position. But, I'm also not sure he should be asking me for help. That seems an unfair burden to place on someone else, at least from my perspective. Said he tried pills and it didn't work. Now he wants me to get him a gun. I told him I would check around.

[Guest]

17 hours ago, KoolHndLuke said:

 I figure the source of most criticism is from people frustrated with life in general (to put it mildly). I mention this because of a friend of mine that is suicidal and is asking me for help in ending his life. I don't want to for various reasons and wonder if his life is really as bad as he makes out. I mean, I can understand wanting to die sometimes. But I also believe that some people could benefit from a different outlook on life. I will keep trying with him even though I don't really know how to help him. He is very set in his ways and very cynical about everything and everyone. He's had success in life and enjoyed the better things in life from what he has told me. But now that those things are gone, he just wants to check out.

 

That's a very difficult situation to be in and obviously nobody here can really recommend you help them out with that as probably doing so is most certainly illegal in your country. Even those with legalized euthanasia or assisted suicide, that's to be done with supervision/checks and balances, not just "helping a friend". I in general support the right to die as long as the person has been informed of their options and given sometime to think it over. Ideally people should try treatment if it is available first. And children should be treated with great care.

 

Unfortunately there are cases where someone's suffering whether physical and or psychological, is inescapable.

[KoolHndLuke]

1 hour ago, gregathit said:

Get them the help they need.

Depends on what you define as "help" in this situation,... One part of me sees the reasonableness of his request, the other wishes for another way to help him. I'm not so sure talking to a "professional" will give him what he really needs- release. There is also the legal aspect of this to consider. I could get into a LOT of trouble helping him go through with it.

[porkybork]

Talk to your friend, remain calm, acknowledge what he's going through, let him know you care, and try to push them towards getting professional help. If he ever makes any claims or threats about killing himself or other people, asks you to assist in his suicide, or just continually refuses to seek help while being suicidal, call the police. I don't know where you're from, but in several states in the U.S., the police will detain the suicidal person and admit them into either a psychiatric ward or the psychiatric floor of a hospital.

Take care.

 

EDIT: So I posted this before I saw that other, more informative posts were made, so I'll add a bit more to this.

I'm sorry for you and your friend. I honestly don't know how to be of any help here.

I will say that if your friend truly wants to die, then that is something he needs to discuss with his doctor and family, not you. That's a ton of pressure to put onto someone, regardless of their relationship. I still think that you should talk to either your friend's doctor or a police officer about being asked to kill him, though, and be sure to tell them the entire situation.

Hope everything works out for the best, whatever that may be.

[Guest]

8 minutes ago, porkybork said:

Talk to your friend, remain calm, acknowledge what he's going through, let him know you care, and try to push them towards getting professional help. If he ever makes any claims or threats about killing himself or other people, asks you to assist in his suicide, or just continually refuses to seek help while being suicidal, call the police. I don't know where you're from, but in several states in the U.S., the police will detain the suicidal person and admit them into either a psychiatric ward or the psychiatric floor of a hospital.

Take care.

For their situation, that's definitely the most sensible response. At least in my country, doing otherwise could easily be considered a crime.

[KoolHndLuke]

Putting the almost assured trouble I would get into by helping him aside for a moment, does anyone think that his request may be reasonable besides me? The few times I contemplated suicide, I told no one. So I'm not sure what to think here. He has made up his mind and I can't help but agree with him to an extent. His pain is real, both physically and emotionally. He has no one else that cares.

[gregathit]

8 minutes ago, KoolHndLuke said:

Depends on what you define as "help" in this situation,... One part of me sees the reasonableness of his request, the other wishes for another way to help him. I'm not so sure talking to a "professional" will give him what he really needs- release.

http://suicidepreventionlifeline.org/

There are also local folks like the police and so on.  

[gregathit]

23 minutes ago, KoolHndLuke said:

He has severe diabetes and has already had many operations and some organs (like his colon) removed. He only has one hand and now his doctors are telling him they need to remove one of his legs. This is an intelligent, rational person for the most part and I do sympathize with both his predicament and his just wanting to "end it". I'm really not sure if I would feel different were I in his position. But, I'm also not sure he should be asking me for help. That seems an unfair burden to place on someone else, at least from my perspective. Said he tried pills and it didn't work. Now he wants me to get him a gun. I told him I would check around.

No doubt that is a horrible situation.  Anyone should be sympathetic to his condition.  I still think that you should try to get him some help via a counselor.  I'm not saying you can't help, it is just that you don't sound like you know what to do and a trained counselor would.  My heart goes out to both of you.  This is one of those terrible situations that we sometimes stubble into.  Hopefully it works out for both of you and you both are better for it.  It may not hurt for you to talk with a counselor as well.

[KoolHndLuke]

5 minutes ago, gregathit said:

It may not hurt for you to talk with a counselor as well.

Appreciate the advice, but I found that it's better not to get big bro involved some times..... for many reasons. I'll just keep talking to him.

[gregathit]

37 minutes ago, Darkpig said:

PS. I am offended you called me a white knight so call us square⬜.

Probably a bit harsh, I'll admit that and apologize.  It just irritated me that we are talking about a serious situation and someone started criticizing my grammar.  Tends to jump start my crankiness motor up.  

[gregathit]

1 minute ago, KoolHndLuke said:

Appreciate the advice, but I found that it's better not to get big bro involved some times..... for many reasons. I'll just keep talking to him.

I don't blame you.  However, the link I gave you and some of the other counselors like that are not part of the government.  Which is why they actually help.

[Darkpig]

59 minutes ago, gregathit said:

Probably a bit harsh, I'll admit that and apologize.  It just irritated me that we are talking about a serious situation and someone started criticizing my grammar.  Tends to jump start my crankiness motor up.  

Its all good. I guess in a way I was a little cranky too but mostly at society and its contradicting attitude over "precious life". I just realized the word cry doesn't really have the same meaning now as it did back then as "something only girls do." Da! Now I feel like more of an idiot saying that.

 

At least I learned my lesson: Never trust society

Er no, that wasn't it.

 

Again no worries. Gods. Now I'm confusing myself.

[AKM]

The fact that he's asking for your help - in any capacity - says a lot along the lines of his interest in seeking help from someone he trusts.  The fact that he's seeking help at all is a good sign in my book, as it's at least a tacit acknowledgement that he's not alone.  Regardless of one's various problems and ability or lack thereof to deal with them, my understanding is that it's much worse when someone feels that not only do they not have the required resources to deal with their problems, they're also alone, with no one to turn to for help, that tends to make it much worse.

As for who these people with the various help lines are, I can tell you from having to call a suicide line myself that they're just there to help.  I was looking for information to try to get a wellness check on a friend who was on the other side of the country, and, not knowing the local police number, figured a call to the hotline was worth a try.  They were very understanding, knowing full well that when you're so busy being concerned for a friend, sometimes, the obvious isn't so obvious (I could have easily looked the number up myself.)  I doubt it worked in my case, as I never heard back from the police, though they did start a case number, and took all the information I could give them (though it wasn't enough for them to do anything with).

 

The hardest part of the whole thing was that she gave absolutely no warning, aside from the known suicidal thoughts.  It was just one day, we talked as usual, the next, I got a letter and a goodbye.  Take it seriously, and act absolutely as soon as you can to get this guy the help he needs.

One of the things that my family pointed out in the aftermath was that if she'd wanted the help, my friend could have gotten it locally.  There are innumerable organizations whose sole purpose is providing the exact kind of help these people need.  The problem is, the people with the problems have to be willing to accept the help, and to seek it out if they don't have a friend who can/will do it for them.

[Mr. Otaku]

I've always had a different approach towards suicide, death and nihilism. For a very short period of time, i got suicidal, it lasted for a week or so fortunately. I did wanna die because i simply didn't believe anyone cared about me (plus other reasons i cannot disclose). I still don't believe anyone actually does but i changed my outlook and approach. It was a diner, someone on the next table was talking about how he got mad when someone told them to fuck off or something, to which the other guy said something like "You don't always let your emotions surface, bad for business". This for some reason made me question my suicidal thoughts and the position i was in. "Why do i have to go?" i thought, and i got angry too. I felt like i was letting everyone push me around cause it sure wasn't my fault i was feeling that way. Nobody cared anyway, so what difference does it make if i'm living or dead? To hell with it. Death comes to all, so i'll wait for it to some to me naturally. To drown out the cause for sadness is the lesson i learned, no meds, no therapist who doesn't give a shit to begin with, no lash outs. It was a quiet little house, me and my thoughts. And now i'm living better than ever, and i've made some pleasant connections with some people, granted it's all just lies but hey it feels good!

 

What i'm trying to say is, don't just try to stop your friend from killing himself. You have to realise that the reason he's in this position is because he cares about how people treat him, whether he says it or not. Nobody that doesn't care what anyone thinks of them considers killing themselves. You have to make him think of how irrelevant things can be if he tried, and that he doesn't have to care. Make him see his life as his property, and that he doesn't have to give it up for any reason at all. Make him see his worth. He's lucky he has a friend that wants to talk to him and stop him from crossing the line, so make him realise that life is a privilege. Talk to him, make him feel like he matters and make him respect himself.

[wokking56]

22 hours ago, KoolHndLuke said:

 I figure the source of most criticism is from people frustrated with life in general (to put it mildly). I mention this because of a friend of mine that is suicidal and is asking me for help in ending his life. I don't want to for various reasons and wonder if his life is really as bad as he makes out. I mean, I can understand wanting to die sometimes. But I also believe that some people could benefit from a different outlook on life. I will keep trying with him even though I don't really know how to help him. He is very set in his ways and very cynical about everything and everyone. He's had success and enjoyed the better things in life from what he has told me. But now that those things are gone, he just wants to check out.

 

People experiencing depression or that are generally dissatisfied with their lot in life should seek psychological help rather than try to end their lives.

However that being said this is a subject we are quite flexible on. In many areas we find it quite acceptable to take the life of a hardened criminal, we also find it acceptable to pre-emptively end the life of an unborn simply because the mother wishes it.

 

It is all fine and dandy to euthanize your pets that are suffering from advanced age, serious injuries or chronic illness. Yet we find it morally reprehensible to allow the same relief and dignity for a human being. No your friends and loved ones have to be made to suffer as long as possible often at great expense because ending a human life is wrong in this circumstance.

[KoolHndLuke]

1 hour ago, wokking56 said:

 

People experiencing depression or that are generally dissatisfied with their lot in life should seek psychological help rather than try to end their lives.

However that being said this is a subject we are quite flexible on. In many areas we find it quite acceptable to take the life of a hardened criminal, we also find it acceptable to pre-emptively end the life of an unborn simply because the mother wishes it.

 

It is all fine and dandy to euthanize your pets that are suffering from advanced age, serious injuries or chronic illness. Yet we find it morally reprehensible to allow the same relief and dignity for a human being. No your friends and loved ones have to be made to suffer as long as possible often at great expense because ending a human life is wrong in this circumstance.

Yeah, I don't get that at all. Were supposed to have freedom of choice and you can certainly give your life defending your country. But taking your own life or assisting someone else to do it is a definite no no under any circumstances no matter how much you or they may be suffering. If a person jumps in front of a bullet to save someone else, that's okay and considered heroic. But if that same person eats a bullet, then they are cowardly and wrong. It makes no sense. Am I, who is of sound mind, to assume that others know the value of my life better than me? Isn't that something that each person decides for themselves?

 

I feel some Rage is appropriate here for some reason-

 

[winny257]

16 hours ago, gregathit said:

The common problem is that folks are trying to express their opinion based on their experiences/knowledge/likes/dislikes.  Which of course differs from others radically.  So while we often are saying the same thing, we don't know it because we are speaking (or hearing) the equivalent of a different language.

 

We humans are complicated.  Humans who are well off and do not have to spend the bulk of their time trying to keep themselves and their families feed are even more complicated.  LOL!

I am good at it, I mean my standpoint represent, I have already burned my mouth a few times, but I can not get out of my skin.
by the way, there is a German proverb, an old tree can not plant to another location become. 

 

meaning: a young tree (humans) can still be formed and trim, an old tree (humans) it does not work anymore, he would break.