guide Skyrim SE for Beginners - V 3.2.6 (3BBB / HDT-SMP / HPH)

[Aylis]

If there's no name for a mod then it is in the mod you just installed...

[jaeos]

13 hours ago, mknn said:

It never ends, I guess???

 

Was running around with the current crew, killing dragons, whatever. Yay. Then, suddenly, my 3rd Person View dropped 6 feet ... so it's now half-embedded in the ground. GoogleFu seems to indicate skeleton issues, things with horses, etc. But this happened mid-game--no new mods, no nothing. I've tried various things found online--turning TFC on and off, yadda.

 

First person view works fine, so I've downloaded JoyOfPerspective, but I really prefer 3rd person view. Any notions of how to reset it to a usual height?

Use Improved Camera. it has an MCM you can change all that stuff, you can also try looking down, hold your stealth key and wheelmouse out, or use num pad 3 and unlock the camera move it around and lock it again.

 

Edit, i looked again, It does not have an MCM but it also doesn't require patches for your armor. 

[mknn]

It was SmoothCam. What was weird is nothing had changed, and changing presets for SmoothCam didn't resolve it. I suspect something like what @alaunus01suggested happened. Disable SmoothCam fixed it, but leaves me back with the not-quite-satisfactory vanilla 3rd person camera. @jaeos, thanks, will try improved Camera instead--actually, may first try SmoothCam again and do what you suggested, as I really liked/had gotten used to it, but assuming that is a fail, will try IC.

 

I saw the patches on JoyOfPerspective, and read a bit about how it works, and slowly backed away from the table ... 

[cloudmc]

Going back through my mod list to try to clean it up back towards your list.   Did you remove LC Build Your Noble Home?  I no longer see it on the list, but I don't see where you removed it

 

[Aylis]

8 minutes ago, cloudmc said:

Going back through my mod list to try to clean it up back towards your list.   Did you remove LC Build Your Noble Home?  I no longer see it on the list, but I don't see where you removed it

That one is gone for half an eternity now.

 

[Skag]

Hey Aylis thanks for your continuing work on this modlist.

 

A couple of things I've found about Guards Armour replacer and New Legion.

First, a possible replacement for the current bodyslide files for Guards Armor and maybe bodyslides for the rest of the NordWar mods later.

https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/43103

Second, this may be just an issue on my end. But I've found that unless I move the New Legion Armour mod below Guard Dialogue overhaul, the generic Legion armour (light, medium and heavy) will still be the vanilla armours. More unique armours like on Tullius or the Penitus Oculatus are fine though.

[Varithina]

3 hours ago, Skag said:

Second, this may be just an issue on my end. But I've found that unless I move the New Legion Armour mod below Guard Dialogue overhaul, the generic Legion armour (light, medium and heavy) will still be the vanilla armours. More unique armours like on Tullius or the Penitus Oculatus are fine though.

Any mod that affects npc, for dialogue or anything like that will affect changes to their equipment, perks or anything like that, it would require a patch for all of that to work, or making your own.

[Skag]

51 minutes ago, Varithina said:

Any mod that affects npc, for dialogue or anything like that will affect changes to their equipment, perks or anything like that, it would require a patch for all of that to work, or making your own.

I figured as much, it just seemed a bit strange to me that it was that specific mod.

Thanks for clarifying though. 

[wakawakaw]

Hi, just wondering if I was to use AFT, would it go before or after My Home is Your Home?  Also if I want other houses, should I just slip them in where the Area section is at the end?  From what I read, it also seems like all followers I want to add need to go after My Home is Your Home?

 

Thanks

[jaeos]

1 hour ago, wakawakaw said:

Hi, just wondering if I was to use AFT, would it go before or after My Home is Your Home?  Also if I want other houses, should I just slip them in where the Area section is at the end?  From what I read, it also seems like all followers I want to add need to go after My Home is Your Home?

 

Thanks

Since i can't remember several thousand mod names and their initials, sure, lets go with putting it before. And yeah followers after mhiyh. Any housing or build your own town mods go at the bottom of area, Although Blackthorn takes some moving another mod up to get it where the landscape doesn't put half the town under a hill. And to be honest i do not remember what mod was changing that area i had to move or remove. so mileage may vary out of the gate. 

[mknn]

Picking up on the invisible helmet thing, looking for guidance on how to track down. Here is what I know ... this snip is from More Informative Console:

 

Spoiler

 

That took me to look in zEdit for 00013963. That looked promising, as it revealed the following info. Note that the only conflict is under keywords, making that--I think--a false lead.

 

Spoiler

 

 

When I look via MO2 in data/meshes/ and that path, indeed, the .nif file is there and it opens in Nifskope and looks purple and correct. I did notice that no corresponding path exists under data/textures--there, it is data/textures/Armor/EbonyArmor/

 

Before I go creating directories and moving things around (and how do I even do that in the vfs), though, I wanted to see if I was on the right track or barking up a totally incorrect tree.

[babalooch]

On 12/5/2020 at 5:48 PM, Grey Cloud said:

Jesus. Just because you have to have groups doesn't mean they are mandatory. I have somewhere between 350 and 400 mods IIRC and have absolutely no need for any groups.

Did I say we should?

 

What is the difference between a Nexus mod esp and a non-Nexus mod esp? How does a mod manager 'tangle together' esps? How does anything tangle esps? I can get either Vortex or LOOT to load esps in the order I want.

 

As I've already said, we can move esps or at least I can. If you can't then look to yourself rather than blame Vortex. The circular reference tool only kicks in when you have a circular reference. It does not force you into any overwrite order.

 

Rubbish. With Vortex you only have to drag it to where you want it, e.g. after/below x.esp. Similarly with LOOT you set a metadata rule for the esp to load after x.esp.

 

Then perhaps there is something fundamentally wrong with this approach. Copying somebody else's mod list is not a way to learn anything.

First, let's get the silly out of the way: A Nexus .esp is on Nexus. A non-Nexus .esp, like the ones here,...isn't. Hopefully that clears it up the difference for you.

 

I say silly: Loot/Vortex is only as good as what users(of unknown ability and experience), supposedly found in xEdit, formed an opinion on, and reported to it. If they are wrong/idiots, or, no one reports the right order/install for Sexlab (whatever).esp + Bruma.esp, then Loot-->Vortex cause more problems then they solve. For large load orders, a design pattern, especially one that relies on complex schemas, predicated on LOOT then enforced with Vortex's guesswork algorithms, that expects non-technical users to know how to fight with it and win? Silly. MO2 is dangerous because it lets users move .esps around freely...which is Vortex's key predicate...thus...

 

Vortex Drag and Drop? What are you talking about? 

 

I haven't used it 4 months so maybe I'm behind the curve, but there was no dragging and dropping of .esps, ever! That defeats Vortex's entire design paradigm. Why put users through the whole before/after process...if it can be undone with a single drag/drop? Why even have the circular reference tool, if that can be broken with a single drag and drop as well? That would cause no end to the fighting with Vortex.  Drag=>rule tool runs, drag again=>circular tool runs, drag again....no. I don't see it.

 

Hmm. Either they have added drag/drop in the interim, which breaks/makes little sense in Vortex's schema, or you are...gravely misinformed(nicest way to say it). 

 

Yeah, I'm calling BS on somebody. You, being...misinformed...or Vortex. And as such, I'm dropping this discussion right here. 

[ascendentkunglao]

@Aylis, have you encountered the unclothed children with RS Children Overhaul.  I'm experiencing it right now and supposedly the mod was updated with the hotfix but it didn't work for me.  Just wondering if you can point me in the right direction. 

[Grey Cloud]

1 hour ago, babalooch said:

First, let's get the silly out of the way: A Nexus .esp is on Nexus. A non-Nexus .esp, like the ones here,...isn't.

Silly? You make a ridiculous statement about Nexus and non-Nexus esps being 'tangled up' and think I am being silly? There is absolutely no difference between an esp from a mod on Nexus and one from a mod here on LL. What about mods which are on Nexus and LL? Do you think the author has to create 2 distinct esps?

 

1 hour ago, babalooch said:

Hopefully that clears it up the difference for you.

You repeating the nonsense is never going to clear up anything. If, however, you could explain to me and the rest of the world what the difference between the two types of esp is or why their being on two different websites is relevant that would be great.

 

1 hour ago, babalooch said:

If they are wrong/idiots, or, no one reports the right order/install for Sexlab (whatever).esp + Bruma.esp, then Loot-->Vortex cause more problems then they solve. 

The process is a bit more sophisticated than that. For example the masters of a given esp are read and compared.

 

1 hour ago, babalooch said:

For large load orders, a design pattern, especially one that relies on complex schemas, predicated on LOOT then enforced with Vortex's guesswork algorithms, that expects non-technical users to know how to fight with it and win? Silly. MO2 is dangerous because it lets users move .esps around freely...which is Vortex's key predicate...thus...

I'm not entirely sure what you a rambling about here. Do you think you are the only person in the world with a large load order? 'Complex schemas'?  'Vortex's guesswork algorithms'? Why does anyone have to fight with LOOT or Vortex or whatever you are going on about? As was pointed out, Vortex uses LOOT (post 4242) here

https://www.loverslab.com/topic/118460-skyrim-se-for-beginners-v-306-3bbb-hdt-smp-hph/?do=findComment&comment=3218519

 

 

1 hour ago, babalooch said:

Vortex Drag and Drop? What are you talking about? 

 

1 hour ago, babalooch said:

I haven't used it 4 months so maybe I'm behind the curve, but there was no dragging and dropping of .esps, ever!

I've been using it since July. I've no idea what that icon is supposed to be but that is what you drag up and down to put an esp in the position you want it.

 

 

 

 

 

1 hour ago, babalooch said:

Yeah, I'm calling BS on somebody. You, being...misinformed...or Vortex. And as such, I'm dropping this discussion right here. 

? ? ?

 

 

[snakesnakesnake]

On 12/5/2020 at 2:56 AM, Aylis said:

2. O.o... That could be load order or ...

 

Good news, I think I spoke too soon - after rerunning FNIS and Nemesis I was still in the same interior cell, and since leaving that area I've encountered several enemies with visible two-handers. I've also noticed enemies are using the dodge roll now, so I think that was the issue.

 

BTW - I also checked the Nemesis patch for ultimate combat overhaul / tk dodge. I think that's necessary as well for compatibility with the mod.

I see people elsewhere on the forums griping about using FNIS with Nemesis, or working with WyreBash or Dyndolod...I just wanna link them this thread like, RTFM!

 

Also, can I echo the request to please stop discussing mod managers here? This thread is about a guide that requires a specific manager. If anyone has a question or wants to fight about it just make another thread for it. If someone brings it up, just ignore it. It's basically flame bait at this point.

[wakawakaw]

11 hours ago, jaeos said:

Since i can't remember several thousand mod names and their initials, sure, lets go with putting it before. And yeah followers after mhiyh. Any housing or build your own town mods go at the bottom of area, Although Blackthorn takes some moving another mod up to get it where the landscape doesn't put half the town under a hill. And to be honest i do not remember what mod was changing that area i had to move or remove. so mileage may vary out of the gate. 

Thanks for the response.  AFT is the amazing followers tweak, I just assumed that was the ideal one to use for this to have more followers at a time. 

 

Also anyone know if I should add Immersive Wenches, and if so where?  Any other mods that add creatures, quests?  Essentially mods that add to the game that don't conflict with this install that you have found over time.

 

Also does it matter where I add new bodyslides?

[mknn]

3 minutes ago, wakawakaw said:

Thanks for the response.  AFT is the amazing followers tweak, I just assumed that was the ideal one to use for this to have more followers at a time. 

 

Also anyone know if I should add Immersive Wenches, and if so where?  Any other mods that add creatures, quests?  Essentially mods that add to the game that don't conflict with this install that you have found over time.

My footer has links to my current build. The critters and quests sections seem quite stable. I use Nether (NFF) instead of AFT, and load it in an NPC Behaviors section, after all followers and before the LL stuff.

 

I had a lot of issues with IW, abandoned it in favor of FG, Amorous Adventures, Eager NPCs. However, since then, I've abandoned oStim, which was part of the issue with IG.

 

For Critters, and especially Quests, make sure you get all relevant patches.

[wollboi]

@AkiKay This is a good reference point for learning MO2. I honestly only watched a few videos and kind've figured everything else out as I went along. It handles mods differently from Vortex or NMM, but it's not really easier or harder, just different. You still 99.99% of the time don't need to worry about where it's putting things, just let it handle all of that.

 

Good video to start with:

Spoiler

 

 

Another:

Spoiler

 

 

Also, Gopher's videos are great. These are for LE, not SE, but they will still give you useful information to get started with if you want to learn more before starting.

Spoiler

 

 

[wollboi]

18 hours ago, Skag said:

First, a possible replacement for the current bodyslide files for Guards Armor and maybe bodyslides for the rest of the NordWar mods later.

https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/43103

Ooooh, that's awesome.

 

13 hours ago, wakawakaw said:

Hi, just wondering if I was to use AFT, would it go before or after My Home is Your Home?  Also if I want other houses, should I just slip them in where the Area section is at the end?  From what I read, it also seems like all followers I want to add need to go after My Home is Your Home?

 

Thanks

When I used it, I put it at the end of the Override section and it worked fine (but above Live Another Life). Check with Loot to see if there are additional patches you need though. I'd look into using Immersive AFT instead of AFT. Also Nether's Follower Framework is the new kid on the block, but IMO it started off very simple and scopecreep has made it messy. (But you could honestly say that about all of them. I'd like one that just allows me to have multiple followers and-that's-it-end-of-story.)

[wakawakaw]

55 minutes ago, wollboi said:

Ooooh, that's awesome.

 

When I used it, I put it at the end of the Override section and it worked fine (but above Live Another Life). Check with Loot to see if there are additional patches you need though. I'd look into using Immersive AFT instead of AFT. Also Nether's Follower Framework is the new kid on the block, but IMO it started off very simple and scopecreep has made it messy. (But you could honestly say that about all of them. I'd like one that just allows me to have multiple followers and-that's-it-end-of-story.)

 

1 hour ago, mknn said:

My footer has links to my current build. The critters and quests sections seem quite stable. I use Nether (NFF) instead of AFT, and load it in an NPC Behaviors section, after all followers and before the LL stuff.

 

I had a lot of issues with IW, abandoned it in favor of FG, Amorous Adventures, Eager NPCs. However, since then, I've abandoned oStim, which was part of the issue with IG.

 

For Critters, and especially Quests, make sure you get all relevant patches.

Thanks for the info.  I did see IAFT and plan on using that instead, I also saw an updated version of My Home is Your Home (MHYM 2?).  Will I be able to change individual npcs looks in-game with what is listed, or is there something else I will need for that?  I see a mod to make most followers have 3BBB 3BA bodytype, that and other bodytype mods should go where?  Will that mod make all of the characters the same, or will they still be different based off weight?

 

Sorry for all the questions, it has been a very long time since I have messed with any of these types of mods. 

[Jessica_Degurechaff]

Im having problems in this part:
1. Install Nemesis just below FNIS (but DON'T activate the mod yet!)

2. Run FNIS normally

3, Create your 'FNIS Output' from overwrite and activate it

4. Now deactivate the main mod for FNIS and activate Nemesis

5. Run the update and move the files from 'Overwrite' to 'Nemesis'.

6. Now select 'Jump Behaviour Overhaul' and 'Movement Behaviour Overhaul' in the list.

7. Let Nemesis run through

8. Create your 'Nemesis Output' from overwrite, activate it and let it overwrite 'FNIS Output'

9. Done

1- Ok
2- Done
3- Overwrite haves: Meshes, scripts, tools> Create mod, activate      Done
4- I guess also FNIS Creatures, in any case i tried both deactivate Creatures and not.    Done, deactivated FNIS main and activated nemesis.
5- I guess run the "update engine" at nemesis, done.   I guess that means opening Overwrite, grabbing the Nemesis_Engine folder and dropping it into nemesis.. done. 
6- Done
7- I guess "launch nemesis" on nemesis, Done, it just closes. Hope thats normal. 
8- I guess that means having it as a higher priority in the mod list?  Done
9- CTD. 

Help pls

Pd: do i need to reactive FNIS after all this proccess? I guess it should be done when no other mod wil be installed

[wollboi]

Damnit, the forum ate my first post

 

@wakawakaw Answering questions in order:

- No, changing the looks completely of individual NPCs is above what the mod list will do. You'd have to use the Creation Kit and create your own mods. That being said, if you use the NPC mods from the list, most of the prominent NPCs will be aesthetically pleasing. (Bijin, Elisif, etc.)

- I wouldn't apply 3BBB to every NPC. Like the 3BBB page says, that would eat up a lot of system resources and probably cause crashes. That's why it provides the spells to enable 3BBB at whoever you're targeting. I'd just apply to it followers, frequent acquaintances, that sort of thing. The body-type mods in the list should go where they are listed, but anything beyond that is going to require some playing around with the load order. But it seems like the list is already doing what you're looking for with the third question.

- You don't need the mod you're talking about to change proportions. Using Bodyslide will alter the general proportions to match whatever bodyslide you're using (Wrong Body for instance). Yes, the character's weight will change their proportions from the standard. Play with the slider in the preview section of Bodyslide to see what a character with weight level 0 will look like verses one with level 100 and you'll notice a lot of variance, no matter what slide you end up using.

 

@Blazeofdragon

4 - You don't need to uncheck FNIS Creatures.

5 - No no no no. Here's where the confusion is coming from I think. First clear your Overwrite entirely (right click, clear). Delete any FNIS/Nemesis overwrites you may have and start from scratch. Enable FNIS Behavior. Disable Nemesis. Run FNIS. When it's done, your Overwrite (very last line of the left pane) will be filled with FNIS stuff. You don't need to drag anything anywhere, just right click Overwrite, click Create, and name it "FNIS Overwrite". Check it. Now uncheck FNIS Behavior and check Nemesis. Run Nemesis. When it's done (which it can be finicky, so you might have to run it a few times), do the same thing for Overwrite and create a "Nemesis Overwrite". Now activate it. You can notice that Nemesis Overwrite has a "FNIS.esp" plugin (at the bottom of the right hand list). This is normal if you have it. If you don't have it, it didn't complete. Delete Nemesis Overwrite and run Nemesis again.

7 - Yes and no. If it's closing right when you open it, something's wrong with the program. But it's actually normal for it to close while running it. Just click Update button, then the Launch button. If it throws out an error about something called "something-block-something" didn't generate, that's a noted bug. Just repeat until it works. If it closes on its own, just open it again and run it again. Remember, it's in beta, but it will work regardless if it gives the complete message at the end.

8 - No, other way around. Anything at the bottom of the list takes priority over anything above it. It's why if you have Rustic Armor but also some of NordWarUA's armor lower, the latter is going to be what shows up in the game. You're making FNIS Overwrite first, then you're making Nemesis Overwrite, so Nemesis will take priority over FNIS as it's lower on the list.

PS - Nope, leave it unchecked when you're finished. Nemesis Overwrite is now telling FNIS what to do.

[Jessica_Degurechaff]

29 minutes ago, wollboi said:

 

4 - You don't need to uncheck FNIS Creatures.

5 - No no no no. Here's where the confusion is coming from I think. First clear your Overwrite entirely. Delete any FNIS/Nemesis overwrites you may have and start from scratch. Enable FNIS Behavior. Disable Nemesis. Run FNIS. When it's done, your Overwrite (very last line of the left pane) will be filled with FNIS stuff. You don't need to drag anything anywhere, just right click Overwrite, click Create, and name it "FNIS Overwrite". Check it. Now uncheck FNIS Behavior and check Nemesis. Run Nemesis. When it's done (which it can be finicky, so you might have to run it a few times), do the same thing for Overwrite and create a "Nemesis Overwrite". Now activate it. You can notice that Nemesis Overwrite has a "FNIS.esp" plugin (at the bottom of the right hand list). This is normal if you have it. If you don't have it, it didn't complete. Delete Nemesis Overwrite and run Nemesis again.

7 - Yes and no. If it's closing right when you open it, something's wrong with the program. But it's actually normal for it to close while running it. Just click Update button, then the Launch button. If it throws out an error about something called "something-block-something" didn't generate, that's a noted bug. Just repeat until it works. If it closes on its own, just open it again and run it again. Remember, it's in beta, but it will work regardless if it gives the complete message at the end.

8 - No, other way around. Anything at the bottom of the list takes priority over anything above it. It's why if you have Rustic Armor but also some of NordWarUA's armor lower, the latter is going to be what shows up in the game. You're making FNIS Overwrite first, then you're making Nemesis Overwrite, so Nemesis will take priority over FNIS as it's lower on the list.

PS - Nope, leave it unchecked when you're finished. Nemesis Overwrite is now telling FNIS what to do.

Im now even more confused now, could you give me a step by step from the start? As you can tell my iq is about room temperature.


Ps: this should be done when i dont have any other mod to install?


ps2:  If i where to install anything that replaces something,, that should be higher on the list for what you tell me, right? 

[mknn]

23 minutes ago, Blazeofdragon said:

ps2:  If i where to install anything that replaces something,, that should be higher on the list for what you tell me, right? 

The language can be confusing, but the MO2 list functions so, form to to bottom, the last edit wins. So, if I have Mods A, B, and C in this order

 

B

A

C

 

A will overwrite B and C will overwrite A.

[Jessica_Degurechaff]

4 minutes ago, mknn said:

The language can be confusing, but the MO2 list functions so, form to to bottom, the last edit wins. So, if I have Mods A, B, and C in this order

 

B

A

C

 

A will overwrite B and C will overwrite A.

Big thank